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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2007

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PB-4 / PB-5 nikon bellows mounted to Nikon digital cameras. (Last time on the subject, honest.)

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Matt Clara - 25 Mar 2007 01:45 GMT
The last bit of evidence is in:
http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/

It appears it is indeed safe to mount either of these old Nikon bellows to
modern nikon dslrs.

--
www.mattclara.com
Toby - 25 Mar 2007 13:22 GMT
I have both the 4 and 5 and have been using both on a D200 without any
problem for the last year.

Toby
> The last bit of evidence is in:
> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> www.mattclara.com
Matt Clara - 25 Mar 2007 18:46 GMT
>> The last bit of evidence is in:
>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Toby

Thanks Toby--where were you when we started the search!!!?  ;-)
All the same, it's good to have a couple experts weigh in on the subject, as
Nikon says it's a no-no.

--
www.mattclara.com
Toby - 26 Mar 2007 12:43 GMT
>>> The last bit of evidence is in:
>>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> All the same, it's good to have a couple experts weigh in on the subject,
> as Nikon says it's a no-no.

Oh! If I had known that I might never have mounted them. But I've had
absolutely zero problems. Just out of curiosity, why does Nikon say it is a
no-no? BTW I've also been using K-rings, in case that interests you...

Toby
Toby - 26 Mar 2007 12:49 GMT
Actually come to think of it, I think I have to mount the bellows "sideways"
(with the mounting collar rotated 90 degrees as if taking a vertical) to get
it to clear the grip. I can't really remember, since I've had to do this for
years anyway for mounting on the F4. But basically once it is mounted you
can rotate it to the horizontal position, although you have to re-rotate it
to dismount it...

It would definitely damage the camera if I tried to mount or dismount it
without that ;-)

Toby

>>> The last bit of evidence is in:
>>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> --
> www.mattclara.com
Toby - 27 Mar 2007 05:35 GMT
Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows
to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the
only reason why Nikon says these bellows cannot be used with their dslrs.

I've lived in Japan for more than 20 years and I know a bit about how their
corporate cultures function: I'm sure that some junior engineer was assigned
to determine which accessories and lenses were compatible with the D100 and
D200. He noticed that the PB4 and PB5 could not be mounted without an extra
step, and this translated to "not compatible". Only his little section
happens to know the reason, so when you wrote to Nikon asking for
clarification there was no way that some poor flunky in Nikon USA could
possibly get in contact with some guy who probably doesn't speak English in
some sub-sub department of some sub-department of some peripheral Nikon
office in some far-flung prefecture far away from Tokyo. One step up from
his is only some written document that states that those bellows are not
compatible, and that's all anyone who digs is going to find out, unless he
spends several days on the phone.

Toby

> Actually come to think of it, I think I have to mount the bellows
> "sideways" (with the mounting collar rotated 90 degrees as if taking a
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>> --
>> www.mattclara.com
Paul Furman - 27 Mar 2007 06:40 GMT
> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows
> to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> compatible, and that's all anyone who digs is going to find out, unless he
> spends several days on the phone.

Or if he tries it <g>.

> Toby
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>>--
>>>www.mattclara.com
Apteryx - 27 Mar 2007 09:05 GMT
> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows
> to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the
> only reason why Nikon says these bellows cannot be used with their dslrs.

You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any
Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :)

Signature

Apteryx

Matt Clara - 27 Mar 2007 16:54 GMT
>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any
> Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :)

Yes, it's my guess Nikon is promoting sales of the PB-6, which is still
available in stores.

--
www.mattclara.com
Toby - 28 Mar 2007 08:58 GMT
>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any
> Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :)

I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200
without any problems (quite often) for the past year.

Toby
Father Kodak - 29 Mar 2007 01:37 GMT
>>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
>>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200
>without any problems (quite often) for the past year.

Toby-san,

Sounds good.  But, how do you maintain full functionality for a
D-series lens in auto modes?  Do you maintain auto focus, at least?

And what about G-series lenses? :)

I appreciate what you said in an earlier post about the corporate
culture in Japan.  It's not always that different here in the USA.

By the way, if you drink in the same karaoke bars as the Nikon
engineers, what are they "singing" about for a full-frame D SLR this
year? :) :)

Domu arrigato gozai mas'

Kodaku-san
DoN. Nichols - 30 Mar 2007 02:01 GMT
According to Father Kodak  <dont_bother@IDontCare.COM>:

> >>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
> >>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Sounds good.  But, how do you maintain full functionality for a
> D-series lens in auto modes?  Do you maintain auto focus, at least?

    How much good would that do?  Most lenses have a relatively
small focus travel -- especially compared to the travel of the bellows
itself.  Only some of the old *real* macro lenses have enough travel to
make some difference, and those which I have handled were not autofocus
either.

    And once you get to near a 1:1 ratio, attempting to focus by
moving the lens is an exercise in frustration.  You move the lens to
define the magnification ratio, and then move the camera and lens as a
unit back and forth relative to the subject to find final focus.

> And what about G-series lenses? :)

    You put them aside The zoom lenses are probably poor choices for
bellows mounting anyway -- unless you can make a spacer between the lens
and the bellows which allows you to control the position of the
stop-down lever in the back of the lens, as you are lacking all other
control.  (Unless some of the more recent bellows assemblies have
provisions for moving the electrical connections, and the stop-down
coupling through the bellows assembly.)

    Certainly the old Nikon Bellows-II (which will also fit on the
D70 with the same caveat about rotating the orientation of the mount
prior to assembling to the camera).  (The corner of the rear standard
still bears on the underside of the pop-up flash housing, but not enough
to prevent mounting or to damage anything.)  A little careful filing or
grinding would clear that totally, but then it would need to be
re-painted with wrinkle-finish black enamel -- and to get the same
finish, it should be baked, which would mean removing the actual
bellows.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Apteryx - 29 Mar 2007 05:36 GMT
>>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
>>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200
> without any problems (quite often) for the past year.

I meant, you'd better not make that bet. The need to rotate the collar to
mount it past the extended viewfinder on all DSLRs can't be the reason they
say not to mount the PB4 & 5, or they would have given the same warning for
the PB6 which requires the same rotation.

I have mounted and used a 35mm PC lens with the "wrong" serial number on a
D70 without apparent harm to either. I am somewhat curious myself to know
the real reasons for some of the incompatibility warnings they give so as to
know exactly what dangers I should be looking out for when I do that.

Signature

Apteryx

Toby - 02 Apr 2007 03:17 GMT
>>>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the
>>>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> the real reasons for some of the incompatibility warnings they give so as
> to know exactly what dangers I should be looking out for when I do that.

I appreciate your concern--I probably wouldn't have mounted the bellows in
the first place had I known that it was not "allowed". Sometimes ignorance
is bliss--and I understand that you meant that the rotation of the bellows
could not be the reason that it was blacklisted. I have been using the PB4 &
5 happily for years, and just recently picked up the PB6 for $50 with the
double cable release (couldn't resist at that price) but have not used it
much, so I didn't remember that it too needed to be rotated.

But...

After your post, I had a very close look at the mounts of both the PB5 and
6. They are identical. I even measure them with my digital vernier calipers.
Absolutely the same: no extra bulges or flanges or slots or channels. I
mounted both on the D200--the viewfinder clearance is very slightly less (~1
mm) on the older model, but both clear it without a problem. I checked the
clearance of the body at the mount. Likewise no problem. I've checked my CPU
contacts for damage on the camera body, or signs of wear on the inside of
the mount. All is pristine. Unless there is something very unobvious that I
am missing, there is absolutely no problem using the older bellows with the
D200, at least.

To answer Father Kodak, I use the bellows always in manual mode. G lenses,
unfortunately, cannot be used because there is no way to control the
aperture. AF likewise--no connection to the focusing mechanism. Nor does one
get any function (D calculation or EXIF data) that needs to be transmitted
via the CPU contacts. I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens. Most of my other non-DX
lenses are manual focus Nikkors anyway, so I don't miss what I never had...

Toby
Bob S - 14 Jul 2007 22:03 GMT
>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
>turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens.

How do you mount the Olympus lenses to the Nikon bellows?

Bob S
Pete D - 15 Jul 2007 00:24 GMT
>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Bob S

Have you done a search on "Olympus to Nikon adapter"?

I got 2.2 million hits when I did that.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Olympus+to+Nikon+adapter&meta=

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,260,000 for Olympus to Nikon adapter. (0.14
seconds)
Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:11 GMT
>>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>Results 1 - 10 of about 2,260,000 for Olympus to Nikon adapter. (0.14
>seconds)

I don't feel like looking through 2,260,000 pages of junk at the
moment, but I suspect that not one of them said this:

"The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope
objectives. I searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there
were quite expensive. Luckily the two lenses came in plastic cases
with metal bottom plates into which the lenses screwed. I "sacrificed"
one of the two cases by taking out the metal plate and glued it to a
Nikon body cap that had the center cut out. Actually I also got a
metal adapter to mount the lenses to an Olympus bayonet, but I was too
lazy to look for an Olympus to Nikon adapter.
Toby"

If I want to know what Google says I will ask Google; if I want to
know what Toby says I will ask Toby; if I want to know what you say I
will ask you.

Bob S
Floyd L. Davidson - 15 Jul 2007 00:42 GMT
>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
>>turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens.
>
>How do you mount the Olympus lenses to the Nikon bellows?

With a bellows it isn't as difficult...  because none of
the linkages (either mechanical or electrical) are
expected to work anyway.

Hence a T adapter on the front of the bellows means that
any T-mount lense can be mounted.  And that means any
lense for which a reverse T adapter can be found can
also be mounted.

And for something like that 134mm view camera lense,
it's fairly easy to manufacture something that mates a T
adapter to such a lense, assuming that the right
step-up/step-down rings can't be found.

I typically use enlarging lenses on a PB-4 bellows.
But also have Pentax screw mount and a T-mount bellows
too, all of which get used with Nikon cameras.  My box
of adapters is not small... :-)

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:20 GMT
>>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>too, all of which get used with Nikon cameras.  My box
>of adapters is not small... :-)

Yes, a reverse T-mount would be the easy way...

The next great advance would be if the aperture stop-down could be
coupled. It is probably inordinately difficult though. If I remember
correctly, Nikon has a system the moves just enough to position the
aperture, while OM has a system that pushes a fixed amount to say
"close it as far as the ring says".

Bob S
Toby - 15 Jul 2007 15:14 GMT
The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope objectives. I
searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there were quite
expensive. Luckily the two lenses came in plastic cases with metal bottom
plates into which the lenses screwed. I "sacrificed" one of the two cases by
taking out the metal plate and glued it to a Nikon body cap that had the
center cut out. Actually I also got a metal adapter to mount the lenses to
an Olympus bayonet, but I was too lazy to look for an Olympus to Nikon
adapter.

Toby

>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon
>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Bob S
Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:14 GMT
Thank you, I have done similar things. I once reverse-mounted an old
movie camera lens by drilling an appropriate large hole in a metal
plate that fit into a T-mount adapter. Jam the old lens in the hole
and it is still there.

Bob S

>The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope objectives. I
>searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there were quite
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>
>> Bob S
 
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