Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2007
PB-4 / PB-5 nikon bellows mounted to Nikon digital cameras. (Last time on the subject, honest.)
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Matt Clara - 25 Mar 2007 01:45 GMT The last bit of evidence is in: http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/
It appears it is indeed safe to mount either of these old Nikon bellows to modern nikon dslrs.
-- www.mattclara.com
Toby - 25 Mar 2007 13:22 GMT I have both the 4 and 5 and have been using both on a D200 without any problem for the last year.
Toby
> The last bit of evidence is in: > http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/ [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > www.mattclara.com Matt Clara - 25 Mar 2007 18:46 GMT >> The last bit of evidence is in: >> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/ [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Toby Thanks Toby--where were you when we started the search!!!? ;-) All the same, it's good to have a couple experts weigh in on the subject, as Nikon says it's a no-no.
-- www.mattclara.com
Toby - 26 Mar 2007 12:43 GMT >>> The last bit of evidence is in: >>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/ [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > All the same, it's good to have a couple experts weigh in on the subject, > as Nikon says it's a no-no. Oh! If I had known that I might never have mounted them. But I've had absolutely zero problems. Just out of curiosity, why does Nikon say it is a no-no? BTW I've also been using K-rings, in case that interests you...
Toby
Toby - 26 Mar 2007 12:49 GMT Actually come to think of it, I think I have to mount the bellows "sideways" (with the mounting collar rotated 90 degrees as if taking a vertical) to get it to clear the grip. I can't really remember, since I've had to do this for years anyway for mounting on the F4. But basically once it is mounted you can rotate it to the horizontal position, although you have to re-rotate it to dismount it...
It would definitely damage the camera if I tried to mount or dismount it without that ;-)
Toby
>>> The last bit of evidence is in: >>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/ [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > www.mattclara.com Toby - 27 Mar 2007 05:35 GMT Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the only reason why Nikon says these bellows cannot be used with their dslrs.
I've lived in Japan for more than 20 years and I know a bit about how their corporate cultures function: I'm sure that some junior engineer was assigned to determine which accessories and lenses were compatible with the D100 and D200. He noticed that the PB4 and PB5 could not be mounted without an extra step, and this translated to "not compatible". Only his little section happens to know the reason, so when you wrote to Nikon asking for clarification there was no way that some poor flunky in Nikon USA could possibly get in contact with some guy who probably doesn't speak English in some sub-sub department of some sub-department of some peripheral Nikon office in some far-flung prefecture far away from Tokyo. One step up from his is only some written document that states that those bellows are not compatible, and that's all anyone who digs is going to find out, unless he spends several days on the phone.
Toby
> Actually come to think of it, I think I have to mount the bellows > "sideways" (with the mounting collar rotated 90 degrees as if taking a [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> -- >> www.mattclara.com Paul Furman - 27 Mar 2007 06:40 GMT > Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows > to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > compatible, and that's all anyone who digs is going to find out, unless he > spends several days on the phone. Or if he tries it <g>.
> Toby > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>-- >>>www.mattclara.com Apteryx - 27 Mar 2007 09:05 GMT > Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the bellows > to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that this is the > only reason why Nikon says these bellows cannot be used with their dslrs. You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :)
 Signature Apteryx
Matt Clara - 27 Mar 2007 16:54 GMT >> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the >> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any > Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :) Yes, it's my guess Nikon is promoting sales of the PB-6, which is still available in stores.
-- www.mattclara.com
Toby - 28 Mar 2007 08:58 GMT >> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the >> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You'd better not - you have to do the same thing to mount the PB6 on any > Nikon DSLR, and that is one that Nikon says is OK to mount on them :) I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200 without any problems (quite often) for the past year.
Toby
Father Kodak - 29 Mar 2007 01:37 GMT >>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the >>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200 >without any problems (quite often) for the past year. Toby-san,
Sounds good. But, how do you maintain full functionality for a D-series lens in auto modes? Do you maintain auto focus, at least?
And what about G-series lenses? :)
I appreciate what you said in an earlier post about the corporate culture in Japan. It's not always that different here in the USA.
By the way, if you drink in the same karaoke bars as the Nikon engineers, what are they "singing" about for a full-frame D SLR this year? :) :)
Domu arrigato gozai mas'
Kodaku-san
DoN. Nichols - 30 Mar 2007 02:01 GMT According to Father Kodak <dont_bother@IDontCare.COM>:
> >>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the > >>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sounds good. But, how do you maintain full functionality for a > D-series lens in auto modes? Do you maintain auto focus, at least? How much good would that do? Most lenses have a relatively small focus travel -- especially compared to the travel of the bellows itself. Only some of the old *real* macro lenses have enough travel to make some difference, and those which I have handled were not autofocus either.
And once you get to near a 1:1 ratio, attempting to focus by moving the lens is an exercise in frustration. You move the lens to define the magnification ratio, and then move the camera and lens as a unit back and forth relative to the subject to find final focus.
> And what about G-series lenses? :) You put them aside The zoom lenses are probably poor choices for bellows mounting anyway -- unless you can make a spacer between the lens and the bellows which allows you to control the position of the stop-down lever in the back of the lens, as you are lacking all other control. (Unless some of the more recent bellows assemblies have provisions for moving the electrical connections, and the stop-down coupling through the bellows assembly.)
Certainly the old Nikon Bellows-II (which will also fit on the D70 with the same caveat about rotating the orientation of the mount prior to assembling to the camera). (The corner of the rear standard still bears on the underside of the pop-up flash housing, but not enough to prevent mounting or to damage anything.) A little careful filing or grinding would clear that totally, but then it would need to be re-painted with wrinkle-finish black enamel -- and to get the same finish, it should be baked, which would mean removing the actual bellows.
Enjoy, DoN.
 Signature Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Apteryx - 29 Mar 2007 05:36 GMT >>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the >>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I also have the PB6, and I have used all three (4, 5 and 6) on the D200 > without any problems (quite often) for the past year. I meant, you'd better not make that bet. The need to rotate the collar to mount it past the extended viewfinder on all DSLRs can't be the reason they say not to mount the PB4 & 5, or they would have given the same warning for the PB6 which requires the same rotation.
I have mounted and used a 35mm PC lens with the "wrong" serial number on a D70 without apparent harm to either. I am somewhat curious myself to know the real reasons for some of the incompatibility warnings they give so as to know exactly what dangers I should be looking out for when I do that.
 Signature Apteryx
Toby - 02 Apr 2007 03:17 GMT >>>> Yes, as I had thought, it is necessary to rotate the collar on the >>>> bellows to mount and dismount it, and I will bet dollars to dimes that [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the real reasons for some of the incompatibility warnings they give so as > to know exactly what dangers I should be looking out for when I do that. I appreciate your concern--I probably wouldn't have mounted the bellows in the first place had I known that it was not "allowed". Sometimes ignorance is bliss--and I understand that you meant that the rotation of the bellows could not be the reason that it was blacklisted. I have been using the PB4 & 5 happily for years, and just recently picked up the PB6 for $50 with the double cable release (couldn't resist at that price) but have not used it much, so I didn't remember that it too needed to be rotated.
But...
After your post, I had a very close look at the mounts of both the PB5 and 6. They are identical. I even measure them with my digital vernier calipers. Absolutely the same: no extra bulges or flanges or slots or channels. I mounted both on the D200--the viewfinder clearance is very slightly less (~1 mm) on the older model, but both clear it without a problem. I checked the clearance of the body at the mount. Likewise no problem. I've checked my CPU contacts for damage on the camera body, or signs of wear on the inside of the mount. All is pristine. Unless there is something very unobvious that I am missing, there is absolutely no problem using the older bellows with the D200, at least.
To answer Father Kodak, I use the bellows always in manual mode. G lenses, unfortunately, cannot be used because there is no way to control the aperture. AF likewise--no connection to the focusing mechanism. Nor does one get any function (D calculation or EXIF data) that needs to be transmitted via the CPU contacts. I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens. Most of my other non-DX lenses are manual focus Nikkors anyway, so I don't miss what I never had...
Toby
Bob S - 14 Jul 2007 22:03 GMT >I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel >turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens. How do you mount the Olympus lenses to the Nikon bellows?
Bob S
Pete D - 15 Jul 2007 00:24 GMT >>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Bob S Have you done a search on "Olympus to Nikon adapter"?
I got 2.2 million hits when I did that.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Olympus+to+Nikon+adapter&meta=
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,260,000 for Olympus to Nikon adapter. (0.14 seconds)
Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:11 GMT >>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Results 1 - 10 of about 2,260,000 for Olympus to Nikon adapter. (0.14 >seconds) I don't feel like looking through 2,260,000 pages of junk at the moment, but I suspect that not one of them said this:
"The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope objectives. I searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there were quite expensive. Luckily the two lenses came in plastic cases with metal bottom plates into which the lenses screwed. I "sacrificed" one of the two cases by taking out the metal plate and glued it to a Nikon body cap that had the center cut out. Actually I also got a metal adapter to mount the lenses to an Olympus bayonet, but I was too lazy to look for an Olympus to Nikon adapter. Toby"
If I want to know what Google says I will ask Google; if I want to know what Toby says I will ask Toby; if I want to know what you say I will ask you.
Bob S
Floyd L. Davidson - 15 Jul 2007 00:42 GMT >>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel >>turn-of-the-last-century 135mm view camera lens. > >How do you mount the Olympus lenses to the Nikon bellows? With a bellows it isn't as difficult... because none of the linkages (either mechanical or electrical) are expected to work anyway.
Hence a T adapter on the front of the bellows means that any T-mount lense can be mounted. And that means any lense for which a reverse T adapter can be found can also be mounted.
And for something like that 134mm view camera lense, it's fairly easy to manufacture something that mates a T adapter to such a lense, assuming that the right step-up/step-down rings can't be found.
I typically use enlarging lenses on a PB-4 bellows. But also have Pentax screw mount and a T-mount bellows too, all of which get used with Nikon cameras. My box of adapters is not small... :-)
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:20 GMT >>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >>>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >too, all of which get used with Nikon cameras. My box >of adapters is not small... :-) Yes, a reverse T-mount would be the easy way...
The next great advance would be if the aperture stop-down could be coupled. It is probably inordinately difficult though. If I remember correctly, Nikon has a system the moves just enough to position the aperture, while OM has a system that pushes a fixed amount to say "close it as far as the ring says".
Bob S
Toby - 15 Jul 2007 15:14 GMT The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope objectives. I searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there were quite expensive. Luckily the two lenses came in plastic cases with metal bottom plates into which the lenses screwed. I "sacrificed" one of the two cases by taking out the metal plate and glued it to a Nikon body cap that had the center cut out. Actually I also got a metal adapter to mount the lenses to an Olympus bayonet, but I was too lazy to look for an Olympus to Nikon adapter.
Toby
>>I use the bellows mostly, anyway, with non-Nikon >>lenses--a couple of Olympus extreme macro lenses, a short barrel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Bob S Bob S - 23 Jul 2007 23:14 GMT Thank you, I have done similar things. I once reverse-mounted an old movie camera lens by drilling an appropriate large hole in a metal plate that fit into a T-mount adapter. Jam the old lens in the hole and it is still there.
Bob S
>The old Oly macros have RMS mounts--the same as microscope objectives. I >searched and found some RMS to Nikon adapters, but there were quite [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Bob S
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