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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / March 2007Canon deems women photogs inferior to men
Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > > http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html I think it's absolutely extraordinary that the Association des Femmes Journalistes should be awarding a prize for female photojournalists! I never heard anything like it in my life! How utterly unprecedented! Daniele On Mar 24, 2:42 pm, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote: > > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Daniele The fact an association of female journalists exists is itself an affront. How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? Do they make as much sense? > > I think it's absolutely extraordinary that the Association des Femmes > > Journalistes should be awarding a prize for female photojournalists! I > > never heard anything like it in my life! How utterly unprecedented! > The fact an association of female journalists exists is itself an > affront. > How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? > Do they make > as much sense? No, because they are not groups for whom entry into that profession (or indeed other professions) has been historically an issue, nor are they a minority group which might feel the need to establish an association for mutual support and other reasons, nor are they a special interest group which might have yet other reasons for wanting to establish such an association. Daniele On Mar 24, 6:24 pm, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote: > > > I think it's absolutely extraordinary that the Association des Femmes > > > Journalistes should be awarding a prize for female photojournalists! I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Daniele So in the country where the prize is issued, when where women not permitted to be journalists or photographers, how long ago? > > No, because they are not groups for whom entry into that profession (or > > indeed other professions) has been historically an issue, nor are they a > > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association for > > mutual support and other reasons, nor are they a special interest group > > which might have yet other reasons for wanting to establish such an > > association. > So in the country where the prize is issued, when where women not > permitted to be journalists or photographers, how long ago? I didn't say anything at all about permission. Read what I said, then if you'd like to ask me a question about it, please do. Daniele On Mar 24, 6:24 pm, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote: <snip> > > How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? > > Do they make [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Daniele Don't waste your time with RichA. He has his ideas, and no amount of truth or facts will change them. Austin > > > How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? > > > Do they make [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Don't waste your time with RichA. He has his ideas, and no amount of > truth or facts will change them. Is that what counts for having an idea nowadays? I remember when having an idea actually involved thinking. Daniele On Mar 25, 6:33 am, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote: > > > > How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? > > > > Do they make [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Daniele I didn't say they were his own ideas. ;) Austin >> The fact an association of female journalists exists is itself an >> affront. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, because they are not groups for whom entry into that profession (or > indeed other professions) has been historically an issue, How has entry to photography been "an issue" for women? Margaret Bourke-White and many other women have been very successful photographers and photojournalists for well over half a century. No barriers have been placed in their way that I'm aware of. > nor are they a > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association for > mutual support and other reasons, nor are they a special interest group > which might have yet other reasons for wanting to establish such an > association. If they are NOT "a special interest group (etc.)" then I have to wonder what a special interest group might look like. Neil > > nor are they a > > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If they are NOT "a special interest group (etc.)" then I have to wonder what > a special interest group might look like. White male photographers are a special interest group? Daniele >> > nor are they a >> > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > White male photographers are a special interest group? <guffaw!> I'd be amazed to see some evidence of that. Are there any special associations, awards etc. restricted to WHITE MALE photographers? Neil > >> > nor are they a > >> > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I'd be amazed to see some evidence of that. It was a question. That's what that funny little symbol at the end of the sentence signifies. You appeared to be saying that white male photographers were a special interest group, which is why I questioned it. > Are there any special > associations, awards etc. restricted to WHITE MALE photographers? You appear to be making a special effort to misunderstand. White male photographers are not a special interest group. Nor are they a minority group, or a group for whom entry into the profession has been an issue. This is why there are no special associations for white male photojournalists. Daniele >> >> > nor are they a >> >> > minority group which might feel the need to establish an association [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > photographers were a special interest group, which is why I questioned > it. Hardly, and I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. You said women photographers are not a special interest group. If they are not, then why have special associations, awards etc. restricted to women photographers? When you do those sorts of things, obviously you create a special interest group. >> Are there any special >> associations, awards etc. restricted to WHITE MALE photographers? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > an issue. This is why there are no special associations for white male > photojournalists. Then why for *women* photographers, who are not a minority for any reason other than that fewer of them choose to go into that field than men? As I pointed out, there are no special associations, awards etc. for male nurses, who are a minority in that field for exactly the same reason. Nor has anyone ever (to my knowledge) suggested that such special considerations *should* be set up for men, and any man who did would be laughed out of the room. These sorts of special considerations seem to be expected by women only, at least those of them who out of one side of their mouths complain about supposed "unequal" treatment, and out of the other side demand special consideration -- apparently without ever noticing the irony. Neil > > It was a question. That's what that funny little symbol at the end of > > the sentence signifies. You appeared to be saying that white male [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hardly, and I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. You said > women photographers are not a special interest group. No I didn't. I said *white males* weren't a special interest group (or a group for whom entry into that profession (or indeed other professions) has been historically an issue). Read a bit more carefully. Daniele >> > It was a question. That's what that funny little symbol at the end of >> > the sentence signifies. You appeared to be saying that white male [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > group for whom entry into that profession (or indeed other professions) > has been historically an issue). I realize that's what you wrote, but I thought you were implying that women photogs didn't consider themselves a privileged special interest group either, which considering their restricted association seems incorrect. > Read a bit more carefully. If that wasn't what you meant, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Neil : On Mar 24, 2:42 pm, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. : Procida) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? : Do they make as much sense? Why don't you try to start one? Maybe you can persuade a few people to join. > The fact an association of female journalists exists is itself an > affront. > How about an association of male journalists, or white journalists? > Do they make > as much sense? or Anglophobes?  Signature"Democracy is the process by which people choose the man who'll get the blame." - Bertrand Russell > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > > http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html Interesting that you chose the word "inferior". Wonder why you jumped to that assumption... dwight >>Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >> >>http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html > > Interesting that you chose the word "inferior". Wonder why you jumped to > that assumption... Because the ONLY exercise he seems to get is "leaping to unwarranted conclusions"... > > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > dwight Natural conclusion, given examples from every other discipline where segregation of the sexes is done. >> > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Natural conclusion, given examples from every other discipline where > segregation of the sexes is done. If you had any women in your life, you'd know they are the superior species. That's why the rest of us worship them. dwight > >> "RichA" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > dwight Enough with the overcompensation, "Dwight." <snip> > > If you had any women in your life, you'd know they are the superior species. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Enough with the overcompensation, "Dwight" Now if that's not the pot calling the kettle black...or maybe the pot calling the sterling silver tea service black... Austin > If you had any women in your life, you'd know they are the superior species. > > That's why the rest of us worship them. RichA has had many women in his life, but they all sprang leaks because they were all made from inferior plastic! ;) >> If you had any women in your life, you'd know they are the superior species. >> >> That's why the rest of us worship them. >> >RichA has had many women in his life, but they all sprang leaks because >they were all made from inferior plastic! Ah... So /that's/ why RichA hates plastic so much! SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > > http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html This article from the 2007 Entry Rules is interesting. Article 5 - Application conditions The conditions are as follows : - applicants must be female - applicants must have completed at least one photo-reportage (published or unpublished) - applicants must be professional photojournalists - applicants must be able to write and speak in French or English > Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > > http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html Richard Anderson aka RichA aka Rich is a TROLL, Here's proof; http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=aewBqBQAAACXCoJOVDw7lNwqSKR9fM5 -OPANdqfI6prRsqjc7uCt1A&hl=en or if that wraps; http://tinyurl.com/2eg78l Here is an archived photo of Richard Anderson; http://i14.tinypic.com/4hwmh4i.jpg : Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? : : http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html Oh, come on, Rich. The contest is *sponsored* by an organization of female journalists. You could as fairly argue that by supporting it, Canon is unreasonably *favoring* women vs men. This time you *are* trolling. Back off. Bob >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > >http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html If you want to ride this train of thought a little longer, Canon (and The Association des Femmes Journalistes) must also deem people who only speak French or English are somehow inferior to the people speak a different language. Shiny side out, Rich. Shiny side out. TR >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > >http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html Gosh Rich, I dunno. Perhaps because women are under-represented in photojournalism, & Canon wish to encourage particpation by women? SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- > >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? > > >http://ifougere.club.fr/CanonAFJindex.html > > Gosh Rich, I dunno. Perhaps because women are under-represented in > photojournalism, & Canon wish to encourage particpation by women? Wouldn't it then make more sense to highlight them against male counterparts, to show they are on a level footing, talent and skill- wise? Rather than ghettoize them? What if (for e.g.) M.I.T. opened female-only engineering departments? This is another area where women are woefully underrepresented. Would that make sense too? In contact sports this whole thing makes sense. You don't want to send 140lb women up against 270lb male linebackers. But in journalism? >> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >counterparts, to show they are on a level footing, talent and skill- >wise? If they weren't already on a level footing with their male counterparts, they wouldn't have jobs. The point is that they're greatly outnumbered. SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- Lionel I agree. But, I don't know why their are more male photographers than female. I see no reason what-so-ever why women can't or don't use a camera. They are capable of being everybit as creative if not more so (just look at scrapbookers). Maybe it is an ingrain pshychological thing. This would make an interesting study. =(8) On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:56:29 -0700, "Jack Splat =\(8\)" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: >Lionel I agree. But, I don't know why their are more male photographers than >female. I see no reason what-so-ever why women can't or don't use a camera. >They are capable of being everybit as creative if not more so (just look at >scrapbookers). Maybe it is an ingrain pshychological thing. This would make >an interesting study. Well RichA the troll was talking about photo-journalists in particular. It you're talking people generally, I'd argue that there are probably /more/ women taking photos than men, but that male photographers are more visible, due to our penchant for big, fancy cameras (AKA "Toys for boys"). ;^) And as for more 'serious' photographers, I personally know more female photographers than male ones. SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > counterparts, they wouldn't have jobs. The point is that they're > greatly outnumbered. Women are "greatly outnumbered" in many fields of endeavour chiefly because they don't choose to go into those fields. There are still many women who marry, have children, stay home and manage the house. And they do this by choice. Others go into nursing, for example, a field which is open to men and women equally but in which women predominate. I have never seen any special distinction given to male nurses just because they are "greatly outnumbered" by females. Neil >>>> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >distinction given to male nurses just because they are "greatly outnumbered" >by females. I personally don't have the slightest objection to women in any profession forming all-female associations, etc, so I'm totally uninterested in debating the matter with you. Take it up with the French Association of Female PJ's themselves if you're determined to have an argument about their raison d'etre. SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > French Association of Female PJ's themselves if you're determined to > have an argument about their raison d'etre. Oooh, how French, but you left off the cute little circumflex. Since I concluded my point and you decline to challenge it, why bother directing me to some other people who aren't even here? If the French association of whatever wants to argue it with me, here I am. Neil >>>>>> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Oooh, how French, but you left off the cute little circumflex. It's a French expression, & I've used the English transliteration. >Since I concluded my point and you decline to challenge it, why bother >directing me to some other people who aren't even here? Because I don't have the slightest interest in getting involved in a boring argument about men/women/affirmative-action/sexism, or whatever it is that seems to be bothering you & RichA so much about the association. As I've already pointed out, I don't have the slightest objection to a group of female pro photographers forming an official association, nor do I think they need me to justify its existence to you or to anyone else in this group. So if you want a definitive explanation for why they created it, the obvious place for you to seek it would be the association itself, rather than in this newsgroup. If someone else wants to discuss the topic with you here, I'm sure they'll be able to find this thread. SignatureW "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them." . | ,. w , \|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Why else segregate an award like some sporting event? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > In contact sports this whole thing makes sense. You don't want to > send 140lb women up against 270lb male linebackers. But in journalism? Rich, I'm sure there's a Women's Club in the town in which you reside. (There's one in pretty much every town and city in the US) Why don't you go and ask them this question, and stop bothering the rest of us? SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm |
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