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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / April 2007

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Canon, Canon, Canon......

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RichA - 06 Mar 2007 17:45 GMT
>From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:

"About 85% of the trip's members were shooting with Canon gear, mostly
1Ds MKII. There were a couple of 1D MKII and 5D's, with several people
having Rebel XT and XTi bodies as backups.

There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands. The rain
was not heavy - more a persistent drizzle than a heavy rain, but it
took its toll. In all, 90 minutes of wet shooting produced six 1Ds
MKII cameras which stopped working for one reason or another. Three of
them recovered after a night of drying out. Three remained hors de
combat for the rest of the trip.

Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
(which is a real hassle, because though one can keep shooting, there's
no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
are)."
AustinMN - 06 Mar 2007 19:05 GMT
> There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
> shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.

The only real value of this is knowing that the manual is right -
don't expose your camera to rain.

Good grief, Rich, is there anything that you don't complain about?

Austin
RichA - 06 Mar 2007 21:27 GMT
> > There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
> > shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Austin

I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
me a picture, that ended up published.  NO PROBLEMS!!!
Apparently there's water sealed and then there's water SEALED.
Skinner1@hotmail.com - 07 Mar 2007 11:31 GMT
>> > There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
>> > shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>me a picture, that ended up published.  NO PROBLEMS!!!
>Apparently there's water sealed and then there's water SEALED.

Ummm...... Call me a traditionalist but I was taught.....

to use the right tool for the job.

So you don't take your Canon out in the rain.
Magic Lantern - 07 Mar 2007 23:40 GMT
> ...
> I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
> me a picture, that ended up published.  NO PROBLEMS!!!
> Apparently there's water sealed and then there's water SEALED.
> ...

I could've used my 5D in the very same rain and ended up with the same results
(or actually better results, if you consider image quality).

If you wanted a statement like the one quoted above to have even a shred of
meaning, you'd have to test at least ten E-1's at the same time. And then
compare the statistics with other cameras.
RichA - 08 Mar 2007 00:59 GMT
> > ...
> > I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> meaning, you'd have to test at least ten E-1's at the same time. And then
> compare the statistics with other cameras.

The 5D is not water sealed in any way.  But, if you feel like trashing
a $3000 camera, by all means...
Magic Lantern - 08 Mar 2007 01:11 GMT
>> > ...
>> > I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> a $3000 camera, by all means...
> ...

"Not water sealed" does not mean that it will die first time you used it in the
rain. Even if it is a very heavy rain. If you rain-test a 100 non-sealed cameras
against a 100 sealed cameras it is expected that you'll lose more of the
non-sealed ones. Maybe a lot more. But just a single occasion does not
demonstrate anything. It is quite possible that your "sealed" Olympus will just
happen to fare worse than my non-sealed 5D.
RichA - 08 Mar 2007 02:08 GMT
> >> > ...
> >> > I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> demonstrate anything. It is quite possible that your "sealed" Olympus will just
> happen to fare worse than my non-sealed 5D.

I doubt it.  The camera is o-ring sealed throughout.  The 14-54mm
Zuiko lens is also weather sealed.
Besides, the article referenced a bunch of Canon's (not one) including
pro, weather sealed models.
You can't submerge these cameras like you can a a lowly waterproof
P&S, but they should be able to take a shower.
Skip - 08 Mar 2007 03:22 GMT
>> >> > ...
>> >> > I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> You can't submerge these cameras like you can a a lowly waterproof
> P&S, but they should be able to take a shower.

I'm still trying to figure out why they had such a failure rate.  I've used
my 5D in just the precipitation that LL describes, but at somewhat higher
temps.  Hey, I live in SoCal, not the Falklands...  I haven't done it often,
but I've not had a failure, nor has my wife, working under the same
conditions with the same model camera.
I wonder if the combination of low temps and moisture was what did them in?

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Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

Mark² - 08 Mar 2007 03:45 GMT
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> I wonder if the combination of low temps and moisture was what did
> them in?

My thought on the failures were that it was more likely due to internal
condensation issues due to cold, wet conditions.  Heck, I've sat for more
than 2 hours with my 10D literally drenched (Yosemite, last Spring), and it
never missed a beat.  If even the well-sealed 1D Mark II had failures, then
it seems there must have been other factors involved.  ??

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Robert Coe - 18 Mar 2007 15:19 GMT
: > I'm still trying to figure out why they had such a failure rate. I've used
: > my 5D in just the precipitation that LL describes, but at
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
: never missed a beat.  If even the well-sealed 1D Mark II had failures, then
: it seems there must have been other factors involved.  ??

Not getting out of the rain to change lenses, for example.

Bob
Skinner1@hotmail.com - 08 Mar 2007 04:24 GMT
>> >> > ...
>> >> > I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>You can't submerge these cameras like you can a a lowly waterproof
>P&S, but they should be able to take a shower.

For crying out loud man. Quit obsessing!

If you don't like Canon then don't buy a Canon. Just let it go.
What??? Did you work for Canon and they fired you or something?
Somebody from Canon beat your dog or something??

No No No.... Don't you dare say you just hate seeing some injustice
being done. YOu are just obsessing and you need to either drop it or
be honest with yourself and admit why you hate Canon so much. Either
way you are killfile headed quick!!!
Mark² - 08 Mar 2007 04:43 GMT
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> If you don't like Canon then don't buy a Canon. Just let it go.
> What??? Did you work for Canon and they fired you or something?

Can you think of a company that WOULDN'T fire RichA?
Lionel - 08 Mar 2007 07:51 GMT
[RichA's usual whining]
>> For crying out loud man. Quit obsessing!
>>
>> If you don't like Canon then don't buy a Canon. Just let it go.
>> What??? Did you work for Canon and they fired you or something?
>
>Can you think of a company that WOULDN'T fire RichA?

McDonalds?

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Bill Funk - 08 Mar 2007 16:57 GMT
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
>Can you think of a company that WOULDN'T fire RichA?

PETA.

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Mark² - 09 Mar 2007 00:28 GMT
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 20:43:20 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even

>>> For crying out loud man. Quit obsessing!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
> PETA.

Ya, OK.  Maybe.  :)

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Andrey Tarasevich - 08 Mar 2007 23:25 GMT
> ...
> Besides, the article referenced a bunch of Canon's (not one) including
> pro, weather sealed models.
> ...

Exactly. Which means that your E-1 would probably fail even if it was kept in a
watertight submersible enclosuire at all times.
Matt Clara - 14 Mar 2007 04:19 GMT
>> ...
>> I used my E-1 during torrential rain, that cause a flood, that netted
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> meaning, you'd have to test at least ten E-1's at the same time. And then
> compare the statistics with other cameras.

No you couldn't have, sh.t head.  And Magic Lantern's a book, numb nuts.

--
www.mattclara.com
Charles Schuler - 06 Mar 2007 22:37 GMT
>> There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
>> shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Good grief, Rich, is there anything that you don't complain about?

R*I*C*H*I*S*A*T*R*O*L*L
RichA - 06 Mar 2007 22:40 GMT
On Mar 6, 5:37 pm, "Charles Schuler" <charleschu...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> >> There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
> >> shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> R*I*C*H*I*S*A*T*R*O*L*L

I like to point out when "Pro" somehow fails the test.  You'd think
for $8000 Canon could almost waterproof the frigging things.
No 33 Secretary - 06 Mar 2007 23:17 GMT
> On Mar 6, 5:37 pm, "Charles Schuler" <charleschu...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> think for $8000 Canon could almost waterproof the frigging
> things.

That would obviously be easier than putting a warning in the
instructions telling people to not get the camera wet, and
expecting them to read and understand it.

But Charles is clearly right.

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"What is the first law?"
                         "To Protect."
"And the second?"
                         "Ourselves."

Terry Austin

Spam THis - 07 Mar 2007 05:44 GMT
> On Mar 6, 5:37 pm, "Charles Schuler" <charleschu...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I like to point out when "Pro" somehow fails the test.  You'd think
> for $8000 Canon could almost waterproof the frigging things.

I have had a couple vinyl camera raicoats for years. They were under $20
and, yes they are plastic. My 1980 Pentax LX was weather sealed, but I
always used the raincoat in bad weather...

As you pointed out, the manual did state don't get your camera wet...

RTFM (Read The err, Fine Manual)
Not Disclosed - 07 Mar 2007 05:44 GMT
> On Mar 6, 5:37 pm, "Charles Schuler" <charleschu...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I like to point out when "Pro" somehow fails the test.  You'd think
> for $8000 Canon could almost waterproof the frigging things.

I have had a couple vinyl camera raicoats for years. They were under $20
and, yes they are plastic. My 1980 Pentax LX was weather sealed, but I
always used the raincoat in bad weather...

As you pointed out, the manual did state don't get your camera wet...

RTFM (Read The err, Fine Manual)
Phil K - 08 Mar 2007 02:26 GMT
>> There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
>> shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Austin

Don't bother replying to "RichA", he is an a.s, nothing more.
RichA - 08 Mar 2007 16:58 GMT
> >> There were quite a few camera failures, most of them occasioned by our
> >> shooting in rain on the first day ashore in The Falklands.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Don't bother replying to "RichA", he is an a.s, nothing more.

Keep crying, little girl.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 06 Mar 2007 22:52 GMT
> Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
> Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
> (which is a real hassle, because though one can keep shooting, there's
> no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
> are)."

Why do you persist in blaming Canon?  Everyone knows that you supposed to
liberally spread food grade silicone grease all over the vulnerable points
of the 5D.  It's the user's responsibility to weatherproof their camera and
lenses.

Rita
frederick - 07 Mar 2007 00:02 GMT
> Why do you persist in blaming Canon?  Everyone knows that you supposed to
> liberally spread food grade silicone grease all over the vulnerable points
> of the 5D.  It's the user's responsibility to weatherproof their camera and
> lenses.

Does that include over the front element of the lens - which won't
noticeably degrade image quality unless it's a Nikkor?
Bill Funk - 07 Mar 2007 15:25 GMT
>> Why do you persist in blaming Canon?  Everyone knows that you supposed to
>> liberally spread food grade silicone grease all over the vulnerable points
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Does that include over the front element of the lens - which won't
>noticeably degrade image quality unless it's a Nikkor?

Bob Guccioni has made a lot of money that way.
:-)

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RichA - 07 Mar 2007 15:28 GMT
> > Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
> > Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Rita

My solution would be to buy a dozen 5Ds or so, immerse them in
silicone rubber, let it dry, then use the camera till the battery ran
out of charge, tossing it, and then picking up the next one.
Lionel - 08 Mar 2007 07:53 GMT
>> > Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
>> > Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>silicone rubber, let it dry, then use the camera till the battery ran
>out of charge, tossing it, and then picking up the next one.

Yeah, that's pretty much the sort of idiotic behaviour I'd expect from
you.

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  W  "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,      
 \|/  \|/              Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Funk - 08 Mar 2007 16:59 GMT
>> > Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
>> > Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>silicone rubber, let it dry, then use the camera till the battery ran
>out of charge, tossing it, and then picking up the next one.

No, you'd *NEVER* do that.
Instead, you'd do what you do now: pointlessly complain.

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The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday
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the right to form a union. It's
all because of that brand-new
airport screening equipment.
One week of looking at naked
Americans and the screeners are
demanding more time off.

RichA - 08 Mar 2007 22:47 GMT
> >> > Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
> >> > Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> No, you'd *NEVER* do that.
> Instead, you'd do what you do now: pointlessly complain.

Did you think the suggestion was serious?!
No 33 Secretary - 08 Mar 2007 23:06 GMT
>> >On Mar 6, 5:52 pm, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com>
>> >wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Did you think the suggestion was serious?!

Is *anything* you say worth taking seriously?

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"What is the first law?"
                         "To Protect."
"And the second?"
                         "Ourselves."

Terry Austin

RichA - 08 Mar 2007 23:39 GMT
On Mar 8, 6:06 pm, No 33 Secretary <terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >> >On Mar 6, 5:52 pm, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com>
> >> >wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Is *anything* you say worth taking seriously?

Sure it is.  Because, I didn't write the story, it was done by someone
well-versed in all kinds of camera equipment, it was damning to say
the least, it targeted Canon, a worship word for some people here.  If
it contained nothing of the kind, if you all didn't get your pooorrrr
wittle feelings hurt, you wouldn't have all pounced on it.
No 33 Secretary - 09 Mar 2007 00:16 GMT
> On Mar 8, 6:06 pm, No 33 Secretary
> <terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Sure it is.

Can you point me to a MessageID? Because so far, I haven't seen
anything from you that wasn't pointless whining about nothing.
Which is to say, trolling.

>  Because, I didn't write the story, it was done by
> someone well-versed in all kinds of camera equipment, it was
> damning to say the least, it targeted Canon, a worship word for
> some people here.  If it contained nothing of the kind, if you
> all didn't get your pooorrrr wittle feelings hurt, you wouldn't
> have all pounced on it.

If it didn't diss Canon, you wouldn't have posted it. That's becaus
it wouldn't have provoked a response. That's how trolling works.

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"What is the first law?"
                         "To Protect."
"And the second?"
                         "Ourselves."

Terry Austin

Magic Lantern - 09 Mar 2007 02:06 GMT
> ...
> Sure it is.  Because, I didn't write the story, it was done by someone
> well-versed in all kinds of camera equipment, it was damning to say
> the least, it targeted Canon, a worship word for some people here.

Incorrect. The story was not targeting anything. It just described some
practical aspects of photography in harsh weather conditions. In harsh
conditions that were so harsh that even the wold-best weather sealed cameras
sometimes wouldn't be able to stand it.

> If
> it contained nothing of the kind, if you all didn't get your pooorrrr
> wittle feelings hurt, you wouldn't have all pounced on it.

If anyone here was pouncing on anything, it was your meaningless conclusions
that you forcefully attached to the story. There's no universally accepted
standard notion of being "weather-sealed" in the world of cameras. Each
manufacturer defines it for itself. And even though Canon does not classify its
5D as "weather-sealed", it is still better sealed than any Olympus officially
advertised as "weather-sealed" by its manufacturer.

In other words, if you ever had a chance to book a trip that would make an 1Ds
fail (!!!), your E-1 would quit in terror as soon as you got the tickets.
RichA - 10 Mar 2007 23:09 GMT
> > ...
> > Sure it is.  Because, I didn't write the story, it was done by someone
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 5D as "weather-sealed", it is still better sealed than any Olympus officially
> advertised as "weather-sealed" by its manufacturer.

Sure it is.  Weather sealing has different grades.  Check out:  The 5D
(None), Canon 1DsMkII and the E-1.
Robert Coe - 18 Mar 2007 15:31 GMT
: If anyone here was pouncing on anything, it was your meaningless conclusions
: that you forcefully attached to the story. There's no universally accepted
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: In other words, if you ever had a chance to book a trip that would make an 1Ds
: fail (!!!), your E-1 would quit in terror as soon as you got the tickets.

Admit it: you guys are just goading Rich now. That's not how you make a troll
shut up.  ;^)

Bob
Bill Funk - 09 Mar 2007 19:09 GMT
>On Mar 8, 6:06 pm, No 33 Secretary <terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
>Sure it is.  

No it isn't. Because...
>Because, I didn't write the story, it was done by someone
>well-versed in all kinds of camera equipment, it was damning to say
>the least, it targeted Canon, a worship word for some people here.  If
>it contained nothing of the kind, if you all didn't get your pooorrrr
>wittle feelings hurt, you wouldn't have all pounced on it.

If you didn't write the story, you can only claim to have
reported/repeated it, not to have said it.
An interesting movement of the goalposts, but you are caught.

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RichA - 09 Mar 2007 23:16 GMT
> >On Mar 8, 6:06 pm, No 33 Secretary <terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> reported/repeated it, not to have said it.
> An interesting movement of the goalposts, but you are caught.

What the F are you talking about?
I never claimed to have said it, only posted it.
The source was unimpeachable, which is what makes the Canon harpies so
angry.
This same thread source has turned up in other forums as well.
Obviously, it's compelling.
user@domain.invalid - 10 Mar 2007 08:19 GMT
> The source was unimpeachable, which is what makes the Canon harpies so
> angry.
> This same thread source has turned up in other forums as well.
> Obviously, it's compelling.

LOL. what it did really do is that it demonstrated that on the
professional market there's only one player left. and that's Canon.
everybody else are just 'has-beens' or 'never-beens'. Nikon is dead. its
stuff sells nice in antiques stores, but no more than that. Olympus is
long dead. it's over.

nobody in the Canon's camp came even close to being angry over that
article. no, it is only trolls like you who got angry. angry over the
fact that this popular approach to starting flamewars doesn't work
anymore. there's no one to start a flamewar against.
Mark² - 10 Mar 2007 09:24 GMT
>> The source was unimpeachable, which is what makes the Canon harpies
>> so angry.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> fact that this popular approach to starting flamewars doesn't work
> anymore. there's no one to start a flamewar against.

I agree with the assessment of RichA...a two-bit troll whose activities have
dwindled to the mere counting of names people call him.  -But Nikon is far
from dead....and I hope they never die.  If they do, my Canon purchases are
going to cost more, and progress will slow considerably.

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Robert Coe - 18 Mar 2007 15:36 GMT
: >> The source was unimpeachable, which is what makes the Canon harpies
: >> so angry.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
: from dead....and I hope they never die.  If they do, my Canon purchases are
: going to cost more, and progress will slow considerably.

Canon will always have competitors. Eventually it will be the Chinese. In the
meantime, maybe the Koreans.

Bob
Bill Funk - 10 Mar 2007 15:03 GMT
>> >> Is *anything* you say worth taking seriously?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>This same thread source has turned up in other forums as well.
>Obviously, it's compelling.

Read the above, carefully.
Maybe, if you don't get it, you'll ask someone who can actually read
to explain it to you.

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The New York Times reported
Barack Obama made investments
in companies owned by his
campaign donors, then tried
to help them with legislation.
He says he didn't know he owned
their stock. Scooter Libby
watched his performance and
gave it a seven.

Bill Funk - 09 Mar 2007 19:07 GMT
>> >> > Three Canon 5D's died that day, with one subsequent recovery. Two
>> >> > Rebel XTi's lost their rear LCD's, though otherwise continued to work
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Did you think the suggestion was serious?!

Yes, of course.
Want to prove me wrong? Buy a dozen 5Ds or so, immerse them in
silicone rubber, let it dry, then use the camera till the battery runs
out of charge, toss it, and then pick up the next one.

Signature

The New York Times reported
Barack Obama made investments
in companies owned by his
campaign donors, then tried
to help them with legislation.
He says he didn't know he owned
their stock. Scooter Libby
watched his performance and
gave it a seven.

Joan - 07 Mar 2007 09:11 GMT
Please tell us about the 15% who were not using Canon.

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Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

: >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
: no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
: are)."
Lionel - 08 Mar 2007 07:50 GMT
f.ck off, f.ck off, f.ck off......

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  W  "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,      
 \|/  \|/              Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Siggy - 08 Mar 2007 11:42 GMT
> F**k off, F**k off, F**k off......

What makes you think the world is only meant for someone who thinks like
you, God forbid? At least his posts are ON TOPIC.

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Phil K - 08 Mar 2007 13:39 GMT
>> F**k off, F**k off, F**k off......
>
> What makes you think the world is only meant for someone who thinks like
> you, God forbid? At least his posts are ON TOPIC

He is a whiny little bitch.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 08 Mar 2007 23:19 GMT
>>> F**k off, F**k off, F**k off......
>>
>> What makes you think the world is only meant for someone who thinks
>> like you, God forbid? At least his posts are ON TOPIC
>
> He is a whiny little bitch.

Who wishes he had some decent Nikkors instead of them kit lenses he's using.

Rita
RichA - 08 Mar 2007 23:42 GMT
> >>> F**k off, F**k off, F**k off......
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Rita

I'm using Olympus Zuikos, not kits, with optical quality at least the
match of any of the Nikons.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 09 Mar 2007 00:07 GMT
>>> He is a whiny little bitch.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I'm using Olympus Zuikos, not kits, with optical quality at least the
> match of any of the Nikons.

Not you, I was referring to our pal little Lionel the super sleuth.

Rita
Lionel - 09 Mar 2007 01:09 GMT
>>>> He is a whiny little bitch.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Not you, I was referring to our pal little Lionel the super sleuth.

I don't own or use any kit lenses, troll.

Signature

  W  "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,      
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---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Rita Ä Berkowitz - 09 Mar 2007 02:04 GMT
>> Not you, I was referring to our pal little Lionel the super sleuth.
>
> I don't own or use any kit lenses, troll.

Surely those pics on your site weren't taken with a real lens.  Next time
try the 17-35/2.8 Nikkor if you want images that stand above everyone
else's.

Rita
Magic Lantern - 09 Mar 2007 02:30 GMT
> ...
> Surely those pics on your site weren't taken with a real lens.  Next time
> try the 17-35/2.8 Nikkor if you want images that stand above everyone
> else's.
> ...

I concur, 17-35/2.8 Nikkor makes a pretty nice image stand. Or paper weight. I
mostly use it to crack walnuts.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 09 Mar 2007 10:53 GMT
>> Surely those pics on your site weren't taken with a real lens.  Next
>> time try the 17-35/2.8 Nikkor if you want images that stand above
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I concur, 17-35/2.8 Nikkor makes a pretty nice image stand. Or paper
> weight. I mostly use it to crack walnuts.

You got it!  It's a very versatile and indestructible lens that is capable
of multitasking and still takes superior images that other lenses strive to
copy.  I use mine as a framing hammer when not snapping puppy pics.

Rita
Lionel - 09 Mar 2007 02:39 GMT
>>> Not you, I was referring to our pal little Lionel the super sleuth.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>try the 17-35/2.8 Nikkor if you want images that stand above everyone
>else's.

*snort*

1) You're obviously too stupid to read the EXIF data on any of my
photos, even though there's a link on each page that will display it.

2) You obviously know you can't produce anything better than my work
or you would've posted links to your own 'better' work.

Sorry Troll, but you've proved to all of us that you're all talk & no
action.

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RichA - 08 Mar 2007 22:49 GMT
> f.ck off, f.ck off, f.ck off......

Faggoty-faggot P.C. leftwing thought police are ON the job!
bob - 09 Mar 2007 15:24 GMT
I would have gone  for a film camera  )

> >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
> are)."
Bill Lloyd - 20 Mar 2007 21:50 GMT
Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of 500
frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)

> I would have gone  for a film camera  )
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
>> are)."
No 33 Secretary - 20 Mar 2007 22:06 GMT
> Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of
> 500 frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)

You only get three pictures per roll?

>> I would have gone  for a film camera  )
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>> can keep shooting, there's no way to change any settings, or
>>> at least to know what the changes are)."

Signature

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Terry Austin

Paul J Gans - 21 Mar 2007 02:50 GMT
>> Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of
>> 500 frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)

>You only get three pictures per roll?

I suspect he dropped a zero and folks shot 5000 frames.

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  --- Paul J. Gans

No 33 Secretary - 21 Mar 2007 17:43 GMT
Paul J Gans <gans@panix.com> wrote in news:etq31j$a5h$8
@reader2.panix.com:

>>> Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of
>>> 500 frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)
>
>>You only get three pictures per roll?
>
> I suspect he dropped a zero and folks shot 5000 frames.

Could be. Or it was 500 frames a day, or something like that.

I still thought it was funny.

Signature

"What is the first law?"
                         "To Protect."
"And the second?"
                         "Ourselves."

Terry Austin

J. Clarke - 22 Mar 2007 15:09 GMT
> Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of 500
> frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)

??  200 rolls of film give 7200 frames.  For 500 you need only 13 rolls.

>> I would have gone  for a film camera  )
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>>> there's no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the
>>> changes are)."

Signature

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--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Pete D - 22 Mar 2007 19:51 GMT
No, no, he was using thos "special" rolls that only have 2.5 shots per roll.

>> Given that many of the folks on the 3 week trip shot upwards of 500
>> frames... have fun carrying that 200 rolls of film :-)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>>>> there's no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the
>>>> changes are)."
stormlady - 09 Mar 2007 16:22 GMT
> >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
> are)."

This is the update as posted on the site by it's author:

I looked at the site's usage stats on the day after this article was
first published and was astonished to see a huge spike in visitors. It
quickly was evident that the reason was a large number of people on
various forums discussing the equipment failures that we had in
Antarctica, especially those caused by rain.

I won't enter the debate, but the partisan bikkering online over this
is quite astonishing. What I will add are two comments.

1: We were unprepared for rain that day in South Georgia. We found
ourselves ashore, it started to rain, and we kept shooting. None of us
had anything more than a hand towl or plastic bag for protection of
our equipment. There was nowhere to go for shelter, and short of
leaving our cameras in their bags nothing to do except keep shooting
in an extraordinary environment.

2: If there had been 45 Nikon and 5 Canons in use, rather than the
other way round, I think it likely that the shoe would have been on
the other foot.

I have used my Canon 1Ds and 1Ds MKII in snow stroms, dust storms,
heavy rain and worse. I've never had one die. Similarly in past years
with Nikon gear. On my trip to Namibia last year the front element
fell off a Hasselblad lens on its third day of use. The same thing
happened to a new Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L on a shoot in Costa Rica a few
years ago.

Pros and ardent amateurs use their equipment in all sorts of
conditions, sometimes harshly, and sometimes not. But gear does fail.
Sometimes its the elements, sometimes abuse, and yes, sometimes poor
craftsmanship and materials. But no one should draw any unwarrented
conclusions from this report. There just arent enough facts available,
and the sample was highly scewed statistically.
RichA - 10 Mar 2007 23:05 GMT
> > >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> other way round, I think it likely that the shoe would have been on
> the other foot.

Nice, Canon face saving assumption!  I guess he still needs those
loaners to evaluate!

> I have used my Canon 1Ds and 1Ds MKII in snow stroms, dust storms,
> heavy rain and worse. I've never had one die. Similarly in past years
> with Nikon gear. On my trip to Namibia last year the front element
> fell off a Hasselblad lens on its third day of use. The same thing
> happened to a new Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L on a shoot in Costa Rica a few
> years ago.

Interesting, but hardly comparable to what happened with that batch of
Canons.
The author (probably) has felt some heat from his free equipment
benefactors.

> Pros and ardent amateurs use their equipment in all sorts of
> conditions, sometimes harshly, and sometimes not. But gear does fail.
> Sometimes its the elements, sometimes abuse, and yes, sometimes poor
> craftsmanship and materials. But no one should draw any unwarrented
> conclusions from this report. There just arent enough facts available,
> and the sample was highly scewed statistically.

Scewed?  He had X number of Canons and a hugely disproportionate
number failed?
Was this serendipity for Nikon?  I don't think so.  Until someone
comes back with a similar story with
similar circumstances were the Canon's didn't suffer such a huge
number of "battlefield losses" nothing he says is going to detract
from the fact the Canons didn't do the job.
Skip - 11 Mar 2007 05:45 GMT
>> > >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> number of "battlefield losses" nothing he says is going to detract
> from the fact the Canons didn't do the job.

What we don't know is how those cameras were treated before their arrival in
the Falklands.  Some of them may have failed in the course of regular
shooting, weather not being an influence.  There are variables.  If this was
the proportion of Canon's that failed in the regular course of work, Canon
would be out of business in a heartbeat.
I've used my 5D in the precipitation mentioned, but not in the cold, and it
hasn't failed.  Go figure.

Signature

Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

Robert Coe - 18 Mar 2007 15:14 GMT
: >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
: no way to change any settings, or at least to know what the changes
: are)."

I know nothing about that trip, but given the destinations, it must have cost
a fortune to participate. Since they'd be visiting some of the rainiest places
on earth, it might have made good sense to buy or rent a camera rated for
underwater use as one of their spares. But I guess all hindsight is 20/20.

Bob
J. Clarke - 18 Mar 2007 16:20 GMT
>>> From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> rent a camera rated for underwater use as one of their spares. But I
> guess all hindsight is 20/20.

For a trip like that I'd likely have taken my old Minolta S-100, which
is rainproof and has a cash value of approximately zero.

Signature

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Bill Lloyd - 20 Mar 2007 21:45 GMT
> : >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
> :
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> on earth, it might have made good sense to buy or rent a camera rated for
> underwater use as one of their spares. But I guess all hindsight is 20/20.

You do know, don't you, that Antarctica is actually the driest
continent on earth?  Thus, a rather uninformed comment on your part.

I was on the trip.  It was raining pretty hard in South Georgia that
day. The 1 series Canons are supposed to have better water resistance
than that -- though I didn't see the lenses everyone was using.  The
5D's aren't sealed for that sort of rain fall (not HEAVY rain like an
east-coast rainstorm, this was really just a solid rain a la Pacific
Northwest).

I had no issues with my 1D mark II.  Really it wasn't like there were
rampant failures... I'm really not sure about the "6 failures" part...
I only heard of a couple, and everyone was shooting the rest of the
trip so everyone that did have a failure had a spare.  You'd want a
spare regardless... I had my old D60.
Robert Coe - 11 Apr 2007 04:14 GMT
: > : >From Luminous Landscape Antarctic trip review:
: > :
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
: You do know, don't you, that Antarctica is actually the driest
: continent on earth?  Thus, a rather uninformed comment on your part.

Indeed I've read that Antarctica is quite dry. (I may be uninformed, but I'm
not illiterate.) I was referring to the rainy parts of South America that I
inferred, from the earlier postings, you had also visited. Forgive me if I
read that wrong.

Bob
 
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