I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
I didn't notice. It looks a lot better than the P&S attempts he had
made. I just billed the guy hourly & gave him a CD with the originals,
it was 9 hours work for 20 pieces, half the time was editing. All he
really needed it for was a web site but I included letter size versions
at 300ppi on the CD.
>> 'Studio' portfolio shoot of stone sculptures :
>> http://tinyurl.com/2exoam
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-mac-coffey
>> -2 pages of select favorites, 10 pages in full set
>> (the 'studio' setup: http://tinyurl.com/25rrml )
(a friend) wrote:
> What were the lights you used?
It was a mix of incandescent & halogen which is not advised but the
colors were so muted I got away with it. If I cranked up the saturation
there were some strange purple areas in the lighting.
He was told by (more professional) photogs that he'd need to take the
sculptures into the studio but this was done in his shop. 20 hunks of
stone is hard to move and not damage. Half of the time was cropping &
blurring wrinkles & cloning missing sections of backdrop due to
non-ideal working distance. I wanted to get back & use a longer lens for
less perspective distortion. When I needed to get an angle from above, I
had to use a wider lens which twists the proportions into a less
realistic scale:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-mac-coffey/
full-set&PG=8&PIC=44>
> How many watts in how many bulbs?
I just worked with what he had. It could be done with two 20 watt bulbs
because I had to use a tripod with timer & mirror lockup anyways... just
longer exposures.
> Is it just me or does the series seem dark? Was that intended?
Maybe intended indirectly because I didn't want to blow the highlights
(problem with digital) on the reflective parts. I brought the white
bedsheet to soften the reflections and the piece of white board mounted
on a tripod to reflect up some fill light and unscrewed some more bulbs
that could not be softened, but at one point I realized that still left
the front face of the sculptures in shadow somewhat, especially when
they curved inward away from the overhead lights. I redid a few because
of that (the setup: http://tinyurl.com/25rrml ).
> Interesting stuff.
> Gracias.
Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
Ken Lucke - 20 Feb 2007 20:08 GMT
> I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
> explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
> I didn't notice. It looks a lot better than the P&S attempts he had
> made.
They look very nice - the only thing I would comment on is that the
background is a little underexposed [for my taste]. Not much, because
you of course don't want it overpowering the foreground image.... just
a 1/2 (or even 1/3) stop or so. Maybe a transluscent sheet of white
plastic (curved a little to provide some distinction in shadows) with a
small amount of backlighting? Alternatively, with the already-taken
pix, you could use Mask Pro or some other good masking tool in PS and
mask out the sculptures and boost the exposure on the background a
little.

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Paul Furman - 20 Feb 2007 20:50 GMT
>>I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
>>explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> They look very nice - the only thing I would comment on is that the
> background is a little underexposed [for my taste].
That was my friend's comment as well. The background paper was already
set up, it's a middle gray. Maybe it's better to use white. Hmm, maybe
it was on the light side of middle gray looking at the setup shot next
to the white walls:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-mac-coffey/setup>
They probably are a little too dark. I did the editing at night in a
fairly dark room, converting each from RAW making adjustments to get
them to match. Probably better to let them rest for a day before
comitting 3 hours of editing time on 60 images to be sure it's coming
out right!
> Not much, because
> you of course don't want it overpowering the foreground image.... just
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> mask out the sculptures and boost the exposure on the background a
> little.
Annika1980 - 20 Feb 2007 22:44 GMT
The backgrounds are fine. The object themselves need more light,
however. Also, the halos in the 2nd pic (perhaps caused by using the
Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop) are very distracting. I think the
pics could be rescued with some Photoshop work, so all is not lost.
Next time, don't worry so much about blowing the specular highlights.
If you think it is going to present a problem then simply do multiple
exposures with each item.
Annika1980 - 20 Feb 2007 22:55 GMT
> The backgrounds are fine. The object themselves need more light,
> however. Also, the halos in the 2nd pic (perhaps caused by using the
> Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop) are very distracting. I think the
> pics could be rescued with some Photoshop work, so all is not lost.
Try this quick fix and see what you think.
1. Import one of the images into Photoshop.
For example:
http://www.edgehill.net/1/Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-mac-coffey/full-set/09_PBF
0237.jpg
2. Duplicate the background layer.
3. Set the Blend Mode for this layer to Screen.
4. Adjust Opacity to taste (90% looks good to me).
If you think the background is too bright simply create a layer mask
and paint with black to mask out the brighter background.
Paul Furman - 20 Feb 2007 23:27 GMT
>>The backgrounds are fine. The object themselves need more light,
>>however.
Yes it would have been nice if I had an off camera flash or some
moveable lights... the best I could manage was a white reflecting board
for fill. I did note that: "at one point I realized that still left the
front face of the sculptures in shadow somewhat, especially when they
curved inward away from the overhead lights. I redid a few because of that"
> Also, the halos in the 2nd pic (perhaps caused by using the
>>Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop) are very distracting. I think the
>>pics could be rescued with some Photoshop work, so all is not lost.
I'm not sure what you mean about halos. The first few might show a line
where I started blurring the background... much further away than an
over-sharpening halo. Pretty soon I figured out how to feather the edge
of that selection enough to remove that effect. I think this one is the
only real noticeable one in the upper left:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-mac-coffey&
PG=1&PIC=2>
Or maybe it's just the back-lit effect that gives a halo similar to
oversharpening.
> Try this quick fix and see what you think.
> 1. Import one of the images into Photoshop.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 3. Set the Blend Mode for this layer to Screen.
> 4. Adjust Opacity to taste (90% looks good to me).
That's just basically a way to lighten the whole image, right? Yes it
does look better lightened up some. I'm not sure what the screen overlay
does that curves or levels wouldn't do?
> If you think the background is too bright simply create a layer mask
> and paint with black to mask out the brighter background.
I already went through all 60 & did various individual adjustments, it
would take a long time to mask them... easier to re-shoot with a
different background or better lighting... I'll just consider that a
lesson for next time but thanks for your observations. Maybe I could do
an action to just lighten them all but I think it's close enough... if
not quite ideal.
Annika1980 - 21 Feb 2007 00:00 GMT
> I'm not sure what you mean about halos. The first few might show a line
> where I started blurring the background... much further away than an
> over-sharpening halo. Pretty soon I figured out how to feather the edge
> of that selection enough to remove that effect. I think this one is the
> only real noticeable one in the upper left:
> <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2007-02-14-...>
There's also a rather unsightly blob on the right of that particular
photo (and at least one other) which looks like a brush stroke gone
awry.
Making selections and feathering is always a pain. I've never been
much good at it myself.
However, this is where the new CS3 really shines. It has a Quick
Select tool that is really good and works great on pics like these
with a smooth background. You just drag it all over the foreground
object and it selects the edges very accurately. Using this new tool,
I was able to select the sculpture and the base in about 5 seconds.
After that, it's a simple job to lighten or darken to taste.
Paul Furman - 21 Feb 2007 00:33 GMT
>>I'm not sure what you mean about halos. The first few might show a line
>>where I started blurring the background... much further away than an
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> photo (and at least one other) which looks like a brush stroke gone
> awry.
That's the wrinkled backdrop between the area I blurred and the subject.
Feathering the selection helped make the transition more gradual.
> Making selections and feathering is always a pain. I've never been
> much good at it myself.
Yeah, it took a while to get the hang of it with lots of really ugly
blur halos & lots of undo. It would have been nice to not have a wrinkly
taped seam backdrop and have it set up at the right angle so I didn't
have to smudge & blur to fill in.
> However, this is where the new CS3 really shines. It has a Quick
> Select tool that is really good and works great on pics like these
> with a smooth background. You just drag it all over the foreground
> object and it selects the edges very accurately. Using this new tool,
> I was able to select the sculpture and the base in about 5 seconds.
> After that, it's a simple job to lighten or darken to taste.
I'll check that out, thanks.
G.T. - 21 Feb 2007 01:20 GMT
>I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
>explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >> -2 pages of select favorites, 10 pages in full set
> >> (the 'studio' setup: http://tinyurl.com/25rrml )
Thanks for the pic of the setup. And as others have mentioned several of
the subjects are a bit dark.
Anyway, I like the guy's work. Is he going to be putting these up on a
gallery website for selling to the public?
Greg
Paul Furman - 21 Feb 2007 03:54 GMT
>>>> 'Studio' portfolio shoot of stone sculptures :
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2exoam
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Anyway, I like the guy's work. Is he going to be putting these up on a
> gallery website for selling to the public?
Yes, that's what he wants a clean set of pics for, a new web site.
G.T. - 21 Feb 2007 05:24 GMT
>>>>> 'Studio' portfolio shoot of stone sculptures :
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2exoam
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Yes, that's what he wants a clean set of pics for, a new web site.
If it's not up yet and you remember, can you put up the URL when it's ready?
Thanks,
Greg

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Paul Furman - 21 Feb 2007 07:03 GMT
>>>>>> 'Studio' portfolio shoot of stone sculptures :
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2exoam
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> If it's not up yet and you remember, can you put up the URL when it's
> ready?
Will do, though it'll probably be a couple months I'd guess.
Coach - 21 Feb 2007 19:02 GMT
> I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
> explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
Ken, Annika, and GT have mentioned all the things to think about in
the future.
Nice to see you've got your first 'pro' job under your belt. So,
about how much did you charge him? $100 - $200 for the day?
Good luck in the future. Hopefully you can quit your day job soon!!
Paul Furman - 21 Feb 2007 19:24 GMT
> Nice to see you've got your first 'pro' job under your belt. So,
> about how much did you charge him? $100 - $200 for the day?
>
> Good luck in the future. Hopefully you can quit your day job soon!!
More than that. I billed him hourly for 9 hours work at my regular
professional consulting rate as for my architectural or computer work. I
don't have a day job, I've got to pay my own medical, accountant, etc.
out of pocket. Still probably a lower rate than a consultant with an
office, receptionist & staff.
Pudentame - 27 Feb 2007 04:50 GMT
>> Nice to see you've got your first 'pro' job under your belt. So,
>> about how much did you charge him? $100 - $200 for the day?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> out of pocket. Still probably a lower rate than a consultant with an
> office, receptionist & staff.
$1000 - $1200 is an average, reasonable day rate for a shoot like this.
Paul Furman - 27 Feb 2007 06:06 GMT
>>> Nice to see you've got your first 'pro' job under your belt. So,
>>> about how much did you charge him? $100 - $200 for the day?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> $1000 - $1200 is an average, reasonable day rate for a shoot like this.
OK then the customer got a bargain & I was happy too. Fair enough for a
less than perfect but much better than amateur result. I saw his P&S
portfolio & it had big problems that he recognized, he was very
impressed at how careful I was and about 1/3 of the way thru I mentioned
concern about not enough fill lighting and offered to fiddle & redo some
and I did redo a few but it came out overall much better & pretty good.
Coach - 21 Feb 2007 19:08 GMT
> I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
> explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
Oh. And incase you haven't seen the strobist.com's "$10 macro sudio",
it is here: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html
May have been very useful in this situation.
-Coach
Pudentame - 27 Feb 2007 04:46 GMT
> I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
> explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any mistakes
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> colors were so muted I got away with it. If I cranked up the saturation
> there were some strange purple areas in the lighting.
Shooting digital, use a custom white balance. This do-hickey is pretty
useful for that; it's a good investment:
http://www.a-digital-eye.net/expodisc.html
It's about the easiest way to get a good white balance with mixed source
lighting. The other way is to include a Gretag-Macbeth card in an image
and use it in Photoshop to set the white-balance compensation.
http://www.ccd-direct.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17448&cat=327&page=1
> He was told by (more professional) photogs that he'd need to take the
> sculptures into the studio but this was done in his shop. 20 hunks of
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
When you're lighting something shiny like metal or polished stone, you
need big soft light - which can be accomplished by shining your small
hard light through something translucent ... like white muslin or dacron
... or a photo umbrella.
Move the light back and the translucent material close to whatever
you're photographing to make your light source big. You could have moved
that bed sheet down until it was hanging just out of the frame.
Often you can better accomplish the job by reflecting the light off
something big and white onto the metallic surface. A 32" x 40" matte
board works well for smaller objects. Move that bed sheet aside slightly
so one of the lights reflects off that board you had in the front and
onto the sculpture.
You don't need expensive equipment, you can make it yourself.
http://www.software-cinema.com/page/tinkertubes
For hot lights, a couple of clamp-on 100 watt fixtures with 75 watt PAR
bulbs from Home Depot (about a $5 investment) would have given plenty of
light, even with the diffusers.
Getting the white-balance right in the camera saves a lot of time in
photoshop, and you don't have to worry about shifts from tweaking the
saturation.
For a background, you can get seamless roll backing paper fairly cheap,
53" x 12 yd for $20.
But, I think you did a good job given the limitations you were working
with. There's ways you could have made it easier on yourself, especially
reducing the post-production in Photoshop, but they look pretty damn good.
Paul Furman - 27 Feb 2007 06:19 GMT
>> I did this shoot last week & thought y'all might enjoy the discussion
>> explaining my techniques & struggles. Feel free to pick on any
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> http://www.ccd-direct.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17448&cat=327&page=1
I did shoot a custom white balance reference shot off the white foam
core board that I brought for reflecting fill light. At least that was
consistent.
>> He was told by (more professional) photogs that he'd need to take the
>> sculptures into the studio but this was done in his shop. 20 hunks of
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> you're photographing to make your light source big. You could have moved
> that bed sheet down until it was hanging just out of the frame.
In that 'setup' shot I had the bedsheet pinned up for a tall piece. A
few shots later I realized it needed to be unpinned and I saw the
before/after results: considerably softer lightbulb reflections though
not as good as a real studio flash with umbrella... oh well.
> Often you can better accomplish the job by reflecting the light off
> something big and white onto the metallic surface. A 32" x 40" matte
> board works well for smaller objects. Move that bed sheet aside slightly
> so one of the lights reflects off that board you had in the front and
> onto the sculpture.
Good idea, and maybe I could have brought some tin foil to crumple up on
the reflector.
> You don't need expensive equipment, you can make it yourself.
>
> http://www.software-cinema.com/page/tinkertubes
Wow.
> For hot lights, a couple of clamp-on 100 watt fixtures with 75 watt PAR
> bulbs from Home Depot (about a $5 investment) would have given plenty of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> For a background, you can get seamless roll backing paper fairly cheap,
> 53" x 12 yd for $20.
Thankfully he had that set up!
> But, I think you did a good job given the limitations you were working
> with. There's ways you could have made it easier on yourself, especially
> reducing the post-production in Photoshop, but they look pretty damn good.
Ya, it was a lot of work post-processing. I had the idea that I'd just
set up the camera in one place with a fixed exposure but that fell apart
pretty quickly.
Jim - 28 Feb 2007 02:08 GMT
> Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
Not bad, hey at least as good as some of my current efforts. But,
here is a point, shed the wallpaper on your website. Its very
distracting and takes away from the photo... particularly those of us
with wide screen monitors. 75% of the screen real estate is taken up
with the background. Background for photo sites shoule be plain and
neutral.

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Paul Furman - 28 Feb 2007 02:15 GMT
>> Thanks for the chance to explain in more detail.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> screen monitors. 75% of the screen real estate is taken up with the
> background. Background for photo sites shoule be plain and neutral.
Ah, well, it wasn't originally a photo web site but most of my work is
nature shots in landscape orientation where the soft green pastels don't
detract. It is a bit funny looking with a clean studio shoot I'll admit.