 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2007long-time Nikon F2AS user -- which SRL digital is best?
hi, I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however, none of them have wide-angle lenses.. and the vast majority of what I shoot these days (actually for years now) is with a wide-angle; my "normal" lens is a 24mm.. have barely touched my 50mm in the last six years or so.. (am putting together a photoblog, would appreciate some feedback.. www.francesdelrio.com/photoblog/.. thank you..) I have been using a Nikon F2AS for about thirty years, so this is where I'm coming from.. am considering either Nikon D50, D70, or D80 (is it true the D40 has a different lens-mounting system from the others? why would they do that?) I think I'm going with Nikon D80.. but not 100% sure yet... am traveling to India in about four days (didn't know firm travel-date till now, trip is job-related..) so need to make a decision double-quick.. this is a big investment and I want to make sure to invest wisely... :) thus would appreciate opinions from knowledgeable folks here.. thank you very much.... > I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was > considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > this is a big investment and I want to make sure to invest wisely... :) > thus would appreciate opinions from knowledgeable folks here.. If you ***MUST*** make a quick decision (unfortunate, and you MUST allow time to check out the gear, particularly any zoom lens, for defects while you can still exchange them. The D40/50/70/80/100/200 bodies all have DREADFUL viewfinders compared with the F2, which had one of the best ever, but the D80 and D200 are not as bad as the others. Avoid the D40 - it doesn't even AF with non "S" lenses (ridiculous!). None but the D200 will meter with non-AF lenses, but it is the most expensive of the group. The D80 is the likely best choice for you if price is an issue, but DO NOT attempt to mount non-AI/AIS lenses on it! For a single lens, the 18-70 or 18-135mm Nikkors may offer the best performance for the price, though they are not as good as the best non-zooms... (the FLs are multiplied by 1.5 to get the 35mm-camera equivalent FLs, so 18mm = 27mm - but there are very few good shorter FL lenses available for digital, unfortunately, and all are large and expensive). You could look into the Sony R-1, which has the equivalent of a 24-120mm lens... -- David Ruether DRuether@twcny.rr.com rpn1@cornell.edu http://www.ferrario.com/ruether If you're used to an F2AS, do yourself a favor and get the D200 with, maybe, the 18-200mm AFS VR or the 12-24mm wide zoom. You'll have a camera much more like what you're used to and it will make full (with exception of auto-focus on your older ones) use of your existing lenses. >> I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was >> considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > rpn1@cornell.edu > http://www.ferrario.com/ruether >> I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was >> considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > expensive). You could look into the Sony R-1, which has the equivalent > of a 24-120mm lens... thank you very much for your response, David.. it's not such a rushed decision, I've been thinking about it for a long time, it's just that the closer I get to actually making the purchase the more nervous I get!! :) just found another great review of D80 here, http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D80/D80A.HTM.. it really seems like the best bang for buck..:) thanks again.. > hi, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > thank you very much.... Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, but they have to be Ai or AiS, they have "feet" on the aperture ring. An older non Ai Nikkor can damage the camera's aperture connection to the lens. Older lenses can be converted. Focusing with a WA is a bit of a pain with these cameras, I use a 24 f2 with a D200, with a 105 micro I'm fine. The other problem you will run into is that the sensor is smaller, so your lenses act similar to lenses 1.5 their focal length. A 24 becomes a 36mm, a 17mm = 25mm. Takes a little getting used to, all Nikons DSLRs have this. I have 4 lenses 3 primes, a 17mm Tokina, a nice lens, the 24 f2 Nikon, a 55 micro, and a 70-210 f4 zoom, the set isn't perfect but works for me and cost less than a grand. If you want to use zooms, somehow they go with digital, the 18-70 Nikkor kit lens is good, but may not be wide enough for you, the 17-55, and the 17-35, the latter could be used on your F2, are excellent lenses with fairly high price tags. For wide angle lenses there are 12-24 Nikon and Tokina, and 10-20 Sigma, a 17mm Tokina is also a good choice . Tom >> hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Tom oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what are main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it worth it (i.e., justifiable) for me to purchase the D200.. thank you very much.. > oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what > are main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it > worth it (i.e., justifiable) for me to purchase the D200.. One of the biggest is that the D200 will meter with non-AF lenses. If you have a large investment in Nikon glass that you would like to use with the DSLR, they will be easier to use with the D200. And of course, the D200 is overall a better camera with metal body and more features. I don't own one, but IMO the only way to go wrong with it is to spend the $$$ and not use it. If the $$$ are a concern, then consider the D80. Depending on the subject matter, metering may not be an issue. You can instantly review the captured image and use the graph (struggling for the correct term... Histogram! That's it) to review exposure. I have a D50 and could not be happier. Well... I suppose a D200 would make me happier. But I honestly have to say that I have plenty of room to improve with the D50. (IOW, I am not skillful enough to take better pictures given a better camera. Yet. ;) HTH, hank Hank has a good point: to a great degree, the camera doesn't matter...it's the skill and imagination of the photographer that makes the difference! A better camera will just make it easier to take whatever quality of picture the photographer is currently capable of. I have a D200 and 90% of the time, my 18-200mm AF-S VR allows me to get the pictures I'm looking for. Once in a while I'll use some of my older Nikon glass...particularly my 55mm micro Nikkor, which is not auto-focus but works really well with the matrix metering in the camera. I like having a slightly sturdier, weather sealed camera when I go out, and the extra build quality and more flexible metering was worth it to me. On the other hand, I bought two D40s for Christmas for my adult son and daughter and tried them out before giving them as presents. Even the D40 with the kit 18-55mm lens does a great job. If using non AF-S lenses is not an issue, and you don't really care about having more megapixels (actually good 6MP cameras can make great photos) then you can really save yourself some money by going with the D40. It just depends on your needs. All of the latest DSLRs are pretty damn good. >> oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what >> are main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > HTH, > hank >> Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It >> has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > thank you very much.. I've also had a F2AS for nearly 30 years, although I've only shot 2 rolls of film on it since getting my D70 3 years ago, and don't think I've used it all since upgrading to a D200 just under a year ago. I'm assuming you have a collection of AI manual focus lenses to go with your F2AS. If so, then the chief advantage of the D200 is that is will meter with them. You could still mount them on the D80, but would need to carry a hand-held meter if you planned on using them extensively. If on the other hand you plan to replace all your AI MF lenses with modern AF lenses, then the price advantage of the D80 will help you do that. You will probably need to buy at least one new lens (18-70, 18-200, or 12-24mm) because one any Nikon DSLR, your 24mm will only have the angle of view that a 36mm would have on your F2AS (though as such it is still pretty useful, and my MF 24mm is possibly the MF lens I use most often on my D200).  SignatureApteryx >>> Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It >>> has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > view that a 36mm would have on your F2AS (though as such it is still pretty > useful, and my MF 24mm is possibly the MF lens I use most often on my D200). ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always metered manually, so I don't care about that.. yes, my lenses are all manual focus, have never felt a need for AF.. and yes, am planning to get it with the 18-135mm.. (and I think I WILL go w/the D80, the D200 with this same lens, is way too expensive.. and main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to change lenses so much...) thank you all very much.. >>>> Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It >>>> has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always metered > manually, so I don't care about that.. More than that. The D80 won't give you a meter reading at all with a MF lens for you to manually set the exposure - because it doesn't know what aperture you have set on the lens, or indeed the lenses maximum aperture. You need mechanical links between lens and camera to transmit that info from a MF lens to the camera, and the D80 and lesser Nikon DSLRs doesn't have them (they use electronic links to get that info from AF lenses). You would need to carry a seperate meter, or use trial and error to get the correct exposure. The D200 (and more expensive Nikons) has both mechanical links for older lenses and electronic links for modern ones. SignatureApteryx >>>>> Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It >>>>> has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >for you to manually set the exposure - because it doesn't know what aperture >you have set on the lens, or indeed the lenses maximum aperture. It doesn't neet to know what aperture is set to function in stop-down mode, only how much light is striking the meter. >You need >mechanical links between lens and camera to transmit that info from a MF [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The D200 (and more expensive Nikons) has both mechanical links for older >lenses and electronic links for modern ones. > >>>>> Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It > >>>>> has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too, [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > It doesn't neet to know what aperture is set to function in stop-down > mode, only how much light is striking the meter. Hi.. so am in India, where last Sunday shot about 100 photos w/my new D80...:) have so many questions.. such as what img size/quality to choose what is diff betw. diff "qualities" (fine, normal, basic) as far as dimensions... lots of choices.. 3872x2592, for ex (54" x 36") but: haven't downloaded any imgs yet, don't know @ what resolutions they come out (I mean dpi, my imgs have to be of a quality I can print, say 11x14..) focusing issue a bit unsettling, AF doesn't always work right (not used to it.) when try to focus manually it's weird.. ring doesn't stop at "infinite" or when you reaach min. distance, like w/other cameras... I usu. choose shutter-speed priority, but can't always change speed when I want to.. (have to turn camera off then on then select "S" in left wheel.. then can change it.) ok, meter runing, have just a few seconds.. thank you.. > >You need > >mechanical links between lens and camera to transmit that info from a MF [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > Hi.. so am in India, where last Sunday shot about 100 photos w/my new > D80...:) Fun. > have so many questions.. such as what img size/quality to choose > what is diff betw. diff "qualities" (fine, normal, basic) > as far as dimensions... lots of choices.. 3872x2592, for ex (54" x > 36") but: haven't downloaded any imgs yet, don't know @ what > resolutions they come out (I mean dpi, my imgs have to be of a quality > I can print, say 11x14..) For 11x14", use Fine to be safe. (Fine, Normal, Basic) only has to do with compression, file size and degree of jpeg artifacts (ugly squarish patterns used to simplify the image. Look in plain skies to see this effect. I print at 13x19" borderless which is 200 dpi and it should really be 300dpi for most printers (9x13") but you quote 54x36" at 72dpi which is a coarse computer screen resolution; not a suitable print resolution. > focusing issue a bit unsettling, AF doesn't always work right (not > used to it.) when try to focus manually it's weird.. ring doesn't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > thank you.. so this is my question, let's say I choose 3872x2592, when I open img in Photoshop, at what resolution will it be (I meant ppi, not dpi..) this is what always confuses me about these choices in digital photogr., that if you will print imgs the important thing is resolution, i.e., how many pixels per inch.. I don't know at what resolution these imgs will be.. I mean you can have an img, say, that's 1000x1000 pixels at 72 ppi, and you can have a 1000x1000 img that's 300 pixels per inch.. for printing obviously 72 ppi is no good... has to be, I assume, at least 300 ppi.... and I don't see choice of resolution, only of dimensions..... thank you... > > Hi.. so am in India, where last Sunday shot about 100 photos w/my new > > D80...:) [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > so this is my question, let's say I choose 3872x2592, when I open img > in Photoshop, at what resolution will it be It really doesn't matter: the dpi ppi (pixels/inch) setting in the file is used to calculate inches but on the computer screen it's all the same and I normally print scaled to fit so it ends up some odd number. But if you want a number I'd set it to 300 pixels/inch (without resampling). Then you can see inches & resample if you want but printers do a fine job of resampling sized to fit. > (I meant ppi, not dpi..) > this is what always confuses me about these choices in digital [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that's 300 pixels per inch.. for printing obviously 72 ppi is no > good... has to be, I assume, at least 300 ppi.... No you can print with less detail depending on the image and the use or expected viewing distance. Anything more than 300dpi is unlikely to be of any use to the printer. > and I don't see > choice of resolution, only of dimensions..... Image menu > Image size -uncheck 'Resample Image' -set to 300 pixels/inch -re-check 'Resample Image' -resize if you want & see inches change >>>Hi.. so am in India, where last Sunday shot about 100 photos w/my new >>>D80...:) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>which is a coarse computer screen resolution; not a suitable print >>resolution. >ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean >w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always >metered manually, so I don't care about that. Yes. Not only will you not me able to use autometering, but you can use the in camera meter at all, even manually. >yes, my lenses are all manual focus, have never felt a need for AF.. >and yes, am planning to get it with the 18-135mm.. (and I think I WILL >go w/the D80, the D200 with this same lens, is way too expensive.. and >main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to change lenses so much...) You are aware none of these camera have a split screen focus system? So you either must use the AF meter signal light in the VF to focus or go purely by your eye. There is an aftermarket company Katz-eye which makes replacement screens for the D200, not sure if they make one for the D80. In either case they are not user replaceable and require your to send in the camera, iirc. The viewfinders may also not be up to what you are used to. You really need to get each one in your hands and use it. SignatureEd Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardGRuf.com) http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote: >> ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean >> w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > camera, iirc. The viewfinders may also not be up to what you are used to. > You really need to get each one in your hands and use it. interesting..... but believe it or not, I have always focused 'by my eye', as you say.. I just don't like using split-screen focus thingie to focus, most of the time I'm not even aware the split-screen is there.. ok, I thank everyone for their help and input.. if I do end up buying the camera (I still get cold feet... what if I don't like it and need to return it???) I will come back here and share the photos... (well, I guess I can share the photos whether or not shoot w/a digital....:) thank you very much... > Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > thank you very much... If you are used to manual focusing by eye, nothing less than a D80 will even come close to your expectations because the lesser models have very dim small viewfinders. Also you said you set exposure manually but the D200 will at least let you use the meter to make that judgement. You will have the capability to review your shots & adjust exposure that way but this is really different than what you are used to. I shoot with a D200 and my latest favorite is an old 28mm f/2 manual focus, this is equivalent to a 42mm normal lens and it's awfully darn difficult to manually focus, on my old D70 it would be hopelessly frustrating. I think this will be a big change for you and the D200 is the best choice because of more knobs & manual controls. If you get a D40, 50, 70 then throw out your old lenses. You will need a D200 to make any decent use of the old lenses. If you are used to fast wide glass, that's simply not an option & you should stick with film. A D80 will not give you the possibility of a 24mm f/2.8 equivalent. The standard kit lense starts at 27mm & slow, the D70 kit lens is 25.5mm & slow. When I say slow I'm talking about getting that shallow DOF you are accustomed to, if your style is deep DOF then any of these will do fine given the ability to boost ISO/ASA for hand held speeds. If you like the shallow DOF for isolating subjects with blurry background at wide angles you are not going to like a crop frame DSLR > If you are used to manual focusing by eye, nothing less than a D80 will > even come close to your expectations because the lesser models have very [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > shallow DOF for isolating subjects with blurry background at wide angles > you are not going to like a crop frame DSLR Agreed. If you want wide angle and will need to buy new lenses, then also consider a full frame camera (I think there are 2: Canon 5D and Canon 1D mark II). Supposedly you can use some old nikon manual focus lenses on the canons too. In either case, the spring photo show is in early March and many new cameras will be introduced, so there may be new options. Roger > I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was > considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > this is a big investment and I want to make sure to invest wisely... :) > thus would appreciate opinions from knowledgeable folks here.. I'd say look at the D50 & D70s if you don't mind the rather small viewfinder, or the D80 if you want a viewfinder that uses a glass prism. Nikkor AF-D primes seem to get expensive any wider than the 20/2.8 which would act like a 30mm with film, which *might* be OK for you. This lens is certainly the next one that I want to get! If you are a keen wide angle shooter then the 12-24/4 would seem an obvious choice if you don't mind being limited to f4. There is always the 14/2.8 AF-D once you have a bit (I mean a lot!) more money. Have fun! Cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk >hi, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >this is a big investment and I want to make sure to invest wisely... :) > thus would appreciate opinions from knowledgeable folks here.. It's hard to choose the right camera under pressure. But I believe that the D80 is a fine camera and you probably will not regret buying it. But you might regret not having enough time to get some experience with it so that you can select necessary accessories. There is not much point to buying an SLR without getting one or more extra lenses. Will your old lenses be satisfactory? What kind of macro capabilities do you want? How will you store all your pics? Make sure you have enough memory cards, or a card reader to store the shots on your laptop... or burned to DVDs. It will take you a while to learn to use the camera to advantage. Lots of time on the plane to read the manual... KS >>hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>firm travel-date till now, trip is job-related..) so need to make a >>decision double-quick.. Do you consider it wise to jump to a new technology, with an 89degree learning curve, just four days before a trip like this?????????? Don't you think you need to shoot a few hundreds of pix with your new (so incredibly capable and amazingly configurable) camera before you embark on anything of importance???????? Talk about risk taking......................... > hi, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would appreciate some feedback.. www.francesdelrio.com/photoblog/.. > thank you..) I guess you didn't find the Nikon 8400 (24 - 85mm) or the Kodak V705 (23 - 117mm): http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/ http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06080803kodakv705c875.asp I used to have a Nikon F3 with all the lenses, but find smaller cameras like the ones above much more convenient when travelling. I also have a Panasonic FZ5 for image-stabilised telephoto up to 432mm equivalent. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz5/ The FZ5 has now been superseded by the FZ7/FZ8, and the Nikon 8400 has not been replaced (perhaps because Nikon can make more money selling DSLRs?). David It may be too late but one other factor I did not notice anywhere in this thread is weather sealing. D200 has it D80 does not, could be a factor travelling in India (heat, humidity, dust). However, if you can't afford the D200 the D80 will likely be your next best overall choice for features and functionality. I admire your courage stepping into the world of digital prior to travelling somewhere with infinite photo ops like India. Let us know how you make out and post some of your pics from the trip. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.