Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2007
50mm f/1.4 VR Nikkor! I'll be damned they did it!
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 01:12 GMT I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm Nikkor.
http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/50VR.htm
Rita
C J Campbell - 01 Feb 2007 01:32 GMT > I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm Nikkor. > > http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/50VR.htm Now, that is funny. Do you get any flare with that setup?
 Signature Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 02:26 GMT >> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm >> Nikkor. >> >> http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/50VR.htm > > Now, that is funny. Do you get any flare with that setup? I've only taken several pictures and really didn't put it through some serious testing yet. If it works as well as it does on the 105 AF-D it will be a winner. There was no flare with the old setup.
Rita
Phil, Non-Squid - 01 Feb 2007 03:20 GMT >>> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm >>> Nikkor. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > serious testing yet. If it works as well as it does on the 105 AF-D > it will be a winner. There was no flare with the old setup. I'm new to this doubling of lenses... have any links on the theory of operation? Or could you explain it?
 Signature Phil
Lionel - 01 Feb 2007 03:36 GMT >>>> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm >>>> Nikkor. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I'm new to this doubling of lenses... have any links on the theory of >operation? Or could you explain it? It's actually a very old - & effective - method of getting really high magnification for macro photography using cheap, standard lenses. Traditionally, you use a male-to-male coupler to reverse mount a 50mm prime on the front of a zoom, to essentially use the 50mm as a really high quality magnifying glass. You can get an idea of how it works by holding a 50mm lens between you & something small, with the front element towards your face. The technique gets discussed quite regularly in RP.35mm.
Floyd L. Davidson - 01 Feb 2007 06:24 GMT >It's actually a very old - & effective - method of getting really high >magnification for macro photography using cheap, standard lenses. >Traditionally, you use a male-to-male coupler to reverse mount a 50mm >prime on the front of a zoom, to essentially use the 50mm as a really It doesn't work as well with zooms as compared to fixed focal length lenses. Diopters work best with fixed focal length lenses because they have fewer compromises (to be magnified).
The reversed lense is an achromatic diopter. The power is equal to 1000/focal_length; which is why a 50mm is the same as a +20 diopter.
A diopter lense in front of a longer focal length produces more dramatic effects than with a shorter focal length. Hence reversing a 50mm lense in front of a 100mm lense makes more sense than putting a reversed 100mm in front of a 50mm lense.
The best quality regular diopter close up lenses are also "achromatic" (they have multiple coated elements), and rather than costing less than $20 each they are likely to be at or more than 5 times that. The difference in quality does show up in the images taken too. A well corrected 50mm lense is just a very powerful diopter... with a bit of a useless focusing mechanism included... :-)
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
C J Campbell - 01 Feb 2007 14:44 GMT >> It's actually a very old - & effective - method of getting really high >> magnification for macro photography using cheap, standard lenses. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > very powerful diopter... with a bit of a useless focusing > mechanism included... :-) As well as making the VR useless in the 105 and the aperture useless in the 50. Plus reducing your maximum aperture considerably. Why not just use a Canon close-up lens?
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Paul Furman - 01 Feb 2007 20:33 GMT > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:24:09 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > 50. Plus reducing your maximum aperture considerably. Why not just use a > Canon close-up lens? It gets closer. On the page I linked in my other reply, with a similar setup using a 28mm f/2 lens, I wrote:
"The old AI-S lens works nicely because the aperture can be adjusted on the front, experiments suggest best results with the 105mm lens wide open and the 28mm at f/5.6. Exposures were between 1 second and 15 seconds with diffuse bright overcast window light. Distance from subject to lens is around 2 inches. The magnification works out to more than 1:4 (1:9 with teleconverter)"
With the TC it really isn't sharp enough to be useable but check out the full pixel crops & judge for yourself.
Dave - 02 Feb 2007 12:33 GMT >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:24:09 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > With the TC it really isn't sharp enough to be useable but check out the > full pixel crops & judge for yourself. Paul,
I think you have your magnification ratios backwards. 1:9 is one ninth life size and 9:1 is nine times life size.
Hope this helps, Dave
Paul Furman - 03 Feb 2007 05:52 GMT >> ...The magnification works out to >> more than 1:4 (1:9 with teleconverter)" > > I think you have your magnification ratios backwards. 1:9 is one ninth > life size and 9:1 is nine times life size. Oops, Thanks, (I was unsure about that)
For the record, I propose changing the terminology to:
'9x magnification'
(for clarity)
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 23:36 GMT > As well as making the VR useless in the 105 and the aperture useless > in the > 50. Plus reducing your maximum aperture considerably. Why not just > use a Canon close-up lens? The MP-E 65 is in the cards as soon as one comes by for the right price.
Rita
David Littlewood - 02 Feb 2007 22:45 GMT >>It's actually a very old - & effective - method of getting really high >>magnification for macro photography using cheap, standard lenses. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >very powerful diopter... with a bit of a useless focusing >mechanism included... :-) "Dioptre" is a unit of measurement for the power of lenses. It is not a name for a type of lens. Dioptres = 1/(focal length of lens in metres).
I imagine the error arose because people would refer to, for example, a supplementary close-up lens having a power of +2 dioptres as a "+2 dioptre". Using it as the name for the lens is just flat wrong. You would look just as daft referring to the 50mm lens as a "millimetre".
Oh, and BTW, it's lens, not "lense".
(Ducks behind parapet.)
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Floyd L. Davidson - 03 Feb 2007 12:15 GMT >>>It's actually a very old - & effective - method of getting really high >>>magnification for macro photography using cheap, standard lenses. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >(Ducks behind parapet.) Yes you should duck. They are commonly called a variety of different names, most of which are in some way technically deficient. I chose that particular terminology so that the OP could do Google or eBay searches and expect to find something.
Spelling flames, I might note, are simply lame. They are twice as lame when wrong, which yours is.
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
David Littlewood - 03 Feb 2007 12:44 GMT >>"Dioptre" is a unit of measurement for the power of lenses. It >>is not a name for a type of lens. Dioptres = 1/(focal length of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >deficient. I chose that particular terminology so that the >OP could do Google or eBay searches and expect to find something. None of the 4 dictionaries (3 UK and 1 US) I checked suggest "dioptre" or "diopter" means a lens; they all say it refers to the unit of measurement, as I said earlier. To be fair, Collins did also mention that the word was also used to describe an ancient form of theodolite. Hm, very relevant. No, sorry, you are just deluding yourself here.
>Spelling flames, I might note, are simply lame. They are twice >as lame when wrong, which yours is. This is an equipment newsgroup. The correct name for an item of equipment is, I would have thought, fairly fundamental to that purpose. The lens spelling comment I made as an afterthought was meant as a humorous reference to the recent (interminable) debate, which IMO was lost hands down by the "lense" camp.
It is, of course, not uncommon to be ill-informed - there are vast areas about which I am ill-informed, no shame in it. However, when someone takes the trouble to correct an error, there are two ways to respond. One can think "gosh, I am now better informed", and make use of the information; alternatively, one can say "sod that, I'll carry on being wrong". One of those simply shows up the recipient as being perverse. Not difficult to see which one.
Oh, and BTW, if you consider someone correcting an error on a matter which is relevant to the NG, in a (reasonably) polite manner, to be a flame, then you really must have a thin skin. But I think we have seen that before.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Floyd L. Davidson - 03 Feb 2007 13:54 GMT >>>(Ducks behind parapet.) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >None of the 4 dictionaries (3 UK and 1 US) I checked suggest >"dioptre" or "diopter" means a lens; they all say it refers to I have not suggested that you would find it in a dictionary, nor is that particularly significant. Jargon or vernacular is often not found in dictionaries.
If you go to google and do a web search to find information about closeup lenses, what you will find is *many* websites using it in the way that I did. It may well not be technically correct, but it is in common usage on the Internet.
Here are a few examples (but do the search yourself, as there are many thousands more):
www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/macro_adapter.htm www.macrophotography.org/modules. php?name=News&file=print&sid=12 www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439515-REG/ Amphibico_0644207R0051_58_mm_Diopter_Macro.html www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/ messageboard/f3message/index.php?show=400 www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/general/lenses/cu_lens.html www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/macro.htm www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/4881/photolesson3.html www.mplonsky.com/photo/article.htm www.treknature.com/gallery/ Africa/South_Africa/photo21521.htm www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/closeup-diopters.html trevorm.gfxartist.com/artworks/119653
Whatever, your complaint lacked validity, and your followup is worse.
>>Spelling flames, I might note, are simply lame. They are twice >>as lame when wrong, which yours is. >> >This is an equipment newsgroup. The correct name for an item of Let me repeat that again: your spelling flame is so lame it smells like moldy underwear found wrapped around a leaky sewer pipe. Is that clear enough?
>equipment is, I would have thought, fairly fundamental to that >purpose. The lens spelling comment I made as an afterthought was >meant as a humorous reference to the recent (interminable) >debate, which IMO was lost hands down by the "lense" camp. Nobody wins or loses in such threads, except perhaps for folks who pay much attention to how much noise various idiots are able to generate.
Slice it any silly way you like, the two spellings are both acceptable.
>It is, of course, not uncommon to be ill-informed - there are >vast areas about which I am ill-informed, no shame in >it. However, when someone takes the trouble to correct an error, When someone repeatedly makes an error and thinks they are correcting someone, it gets ridiculous. Please cease being ridiculous.
>Oh, and BTW, if you consider someone correcting an error on a Spelling flames are silly. Incorrect spelling flames are not only the norm, but are worse than silly.
lense n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge transmitted light and to form images [syn: lens, lens system]
That has been posted previously, I would have assumed that you'd have availed yourself of the information at that time.
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
David Littlewood - 03 Feb 2007 15:58 GMT >>>>(Ducks behind parapet.) >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/macro_adapter.htm The usage on this site follows your erroneous usage, and the correct one, leading him into some quite ridiculous tangles, such as a 2-element diopter of 3.0 dioptres. I would have thought for most people this absurdity alone would condemn your usage as farcical.
> www.macrophotography.org/modules. php?name=News&file=print&sid=12 Would not open.
> www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439515-REG/ >Amphibico_0644207R0051_58_mm_Diopter_Macro.html Again, uses the word in the two (incompatible) ways.
> www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/ >messageboard/f3message/index.php?show=400 Could see no reference to diopters (or dioptres) on this page
> www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/general/lenses/cu_lens.html This site - which is BTW quite excellent - uses the word in precisely the way I said it should be used; nowhere could I see the slightest support for your usage.
> www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/macro.htm Apart from one slip in the header paragraph, he seems to follow the usage I set out.
> www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/4881/photolesson3.html > www.mplonsky.com/photo/article.htm > www.treknature.com/gallery/ Africa/South_Africa/photo21521.htm > www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/closeup-diopters.html > trevorm.gfxartist.com/artworks/119653 Some of these sites do indeed fall into the same error as you do. What you find on various web sites just proves you are not alone in your error; it does not make it less of an error.
>Whatever, your complaint lacked validity, and your followup >is worse. It was not a complaint, it was an attempt to correct an error, for the benefit of others even if you do not wish to hear it.
>Let me repeat that again: your spelling flame is so lame it >smells like moldy underwear found wrapped around a leaky sewer >pipe. Is that clear enough? Ah, now I see what is in your mind!
>Nobody wins or loses in such threads, except perhaps for folks >who pay much attention to how much noise various idiots are able >to generate. Those who wish to learn, benefit. Those who do not, don't.
>Slice it any silly way you like, the two spellings are both >acceptable. Not on this side of the pond. "Lense" makes you look like a bumpkin.
You are clearly more interested in proving that you are a stubborn sort of person who would die in a ditch to avoid admitting a mistake, rather than one who wishes to get things right. ISTR this is a common reaction for you.
I will avoid wasting any more of my time trying to correct your ignorance next time.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
John McWilliams - 03 Feb 2007 16:33 GMT > You are clearly more interested in proving that you are a stubborn sort > of person who would die in a ditch to avoid admitting a mistake, rather > than one who wishes to get things right. ISTR this is a common reaction > for you. Either that, or Floyd is just *never* WRONG! (Although I was happy to see in this thread he eschewed use of emphasis).
 Signature john mcwilliams
Peter J E Brunning - 03 Feb 2007 17:45 GMT >> You are clearly more interested in proving that you are a stubborn sort >> of person who would die in a ditch to avoid admitting a mistake, rather [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Either that, or Floyd is just *never* WRONG! (Although I was happy to see > in this thread he eschewed use of emphasis). OTOH, http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/lense.html says: Although the variant spelling "lense" is listed in some dictionaries, the standard spelling for those little disks that focus light is "lens."
And on this side of the pond, we don't use the spelling 'moldy'!
John McWilliams - 03 Feb 2007 18:37 GMT >>> You are clearly more interested in proving that you are a stubborn sort >>> of person who would die in a ditch to avoid admitting a mistake, rather [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > And on this side of the pond, we don't use the spelling 'moldy'! So, why, then, is it not "foucus"? Or "foucous"? <s>
 Signature john mcwilliams
David Littlewood - 03 Feb 2007 19:12 GMT >> You are clearly more interested in proving that you are a stubborn >>sort of person who would die in a ditch to avoid admitting a mistake, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Either that, or Floyd is just *never* WRONG! (Although I was happy to >see in this thread he eschewed use of emphasis). Well, I may never know, unless someone takes up the issue. I just plonked him, life is too short.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Paul Furman - 01 Feb 2007 20:26 GMT >>> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm >>> Nikkor. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > will > be a winner. There was no flare with the old setup. I got nice results with an old AI 28mm f/2 this way, here's some tests: <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2006-11-19_105x2-28-macro>
Similar experiments with a zoom failed due to flare from too many elements but on a prime lens this is not a big issue.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 23:37 GMT > I got nice results with an old AI 28mm f/2 this way, here's some > tests: > http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2006-11-19_105x2-28-macro Yes, it seems to be working for you.
Rita
RichA - 02 Feb 2007 01:33 GMT > >>> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm > >>> Nikkor. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Similar experiments with a zoom failed due to flare from too many > elements but on a prime lens this is not a big issue. Just as a side issue, but when are camera makers going to adopt the idea that fewer elements = better contrast? I know....a dozen spherical elements (needed to do the job) are still cheaper than 5 elements, one being aspheric. At least ED glass is getting used more now and lens coatings have improved in the last 20 years.
C J Campbell - 01 Feb 2007 14:40 GMT >> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm Nikkor. >> >> http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/50VR.htm > > Now, that is funny. Do you get any flare with that setup? I guess the real question I had was why the 105mm VR? Couldn't a less expensive lens have worked equally well?
 Signature Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor
Paul Furman - 01 Feb 2007 20:37 GMT > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:32:42 -0800, C J Campbell wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I guess the real question I had was why the 105mm VR? Couldn't a less > expensive lens have worked equally well? The VR is useless even at 1:1 but it is important to use high quality primes when coupling like this as you are pushing both lenses beyond what they are designed for. Extension rings or a bellows could do better simply because there is less glass but this setup will actually meter (sort of).
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 23:37 GMT > The VR is useless even at 1:1 but it is important to use high quality > primes when coupling like this as you are pushing both lenses beyond > what they are designed for. Extension rings or a bellows could do > better simply because there is less glass but this setup will > actually meter (sort of). Did you find VR useless with the 105 focused to infinity when the other lens was attached?
Rita
Paul Furman - 02 Feb 2007 02:50 GMT >> The VR is useless even at 1:1 but it is important to use high quality >> primes when coupling like this as you are pushing both lenses beyond [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Did you find VR useless with the 105 focused to infinity when the other > lens was attached? I don't really know. The manual says the VR is useless at 1:1 and I haven't seen anything to disprove that. The VR is good for butterfly portraits & 'closeups' but not at extreme macro. I don't have any external flash so this setup is strictly a lab scene for me with the camera sitting on a table & subjects propped up in front. My tripod was useless at this scale with bright window light. I don't know, maybe it could be hand held in midsummer daylight, I haven't tried.
I didn't try the 105 at infinity, only close to the extreme magnification. What did amaze me though is that the focus ring was very useable even at 1:9 magnification with the 2x TC. I had heard you need a focusing rail but the 105 VR was easy to focus manually at these preposterous magnifications. And that's the thing that surpised me about the 105 used as a telephoto lens; how crappy the AF is; always hunting for gnats in front of the lens when I want to AF on a bird 200 feet away: <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay-Area/San-Francisco/neigh borhoods/2006-10-31-sailing/full-set&PG=2&PIC=8> I think that one was the 105 with 2x TC, at least I had it out that day and I recall it was sharper than the 70-200/2.8 at 200.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Feb 2007 23:36 GMT > I guess the real question I had was why the 105mm VR? Couldn't a less > expensive lens have worked equally well? Well, I'm just experimenting with a theory I have on VR. I normally use the 105mm AF-D since it isn't as bulky. If for some strange reason I find the miracle cure for cancer and VR gives some earth shattering results at 1:1 and greater I will use this. I'm hoping to find time to do some testing this weekend.
Rita
Rebecca Ore - 02 Feb 2007 00:07 GMT > VR gives some earth shattering results at 1:1 > and greater I will use this. I'm hoping to find time to do some testing > this weekend. I honestly think the only thing VR at 1:1 helped me with is making the viewfinder clearer by removing the side to side motion. I'll be curious to see what you find out. Thought you'd returned the lens. Guess not.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 02 Feb 2007 01:01 GMT >> VR gives some earth shattering results at 1:1 >> and greater I will use this. I'm hoping to find time to do some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > curious to see what you find out. Thought you'd returned the lens. > Guess not. Huh? I gave it to my son, so I can "borrow" it anytime I like. It's too nice of a lens to sell.
Rita
HankB - 02 Feb 2007 19:12 GMT > I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm Nikkor. > > http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/50VR.htm Questions from the ignorant. ;)
Does the tape on the base of the 50 serve any purpose other than cosmetic?
Given the choice between a 50mm f/1.8 AF or 20mm f/2.8 or somewhat ancient 55mm micro AI f/2.8 (used on the more traditional 105mm AF-D micro ;) which would make the best choice. Are there situations where one or the other reversed lens would perform better or would one be better overall. I think it would be the fastest, but would like other opinions.
thanks, hank
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 02 Feb 2007 23:28 GMT >> I can't believe my eyes! It really is possible to have VR on a 50mm >> Nikkor. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Does the tape on the base of the 50 serve any purpose other than > cosmetic? Yes, this is by far the most critical part of this setup. Don't let the gnarly look fool you. This is a rear lens cap with the bottom removed and a 30-something mm UV filter hot-glued in for the sole purpose of protecting the rear element. Works really well.
> Given the choice between a 50mm f/1.8 AF or 20mm f/2.8 or somewhat > ancient 55mm micro AI f/2.8 (used on the more traditional 105mm AF-D > micro ;) which would make the best choice. Are there situations where > one or the other reversed lens would perform better or would one be > better overall. I think it would be the fastest, but would like other > opinions. Well, when I originally built this around my 105mm AF-D a good while back, I had the 50/1.4 AI Nikkor that was expendable and a bunch of Canon FD lenses. I've tried everything from an FD 50mm macro lens to a 20mm and they all sucked beyond imagination. At the end of the day the 50/1.4 Nikkor was the lens of choice for this. I don't see any reason why a 50/1.8 wouldn't work.
Rita
David Littlewood - 03 Feb 2007 00:13 GMT >> Does the tape on the base of the 50 serve any purpose other than >> cosmetic? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >sucked beyond imagination. At the end of the day the 50/1.4 Nikkor was the >lens of choice for this. I don't see any reason why a 50/1.8 wouldn't work. Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the less-successful choices? Looking at the FD 50/2.8, I would guess it might vignette somewhat.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 03 Feb 2007 12:53 GMT >> Well, when I originally built this around my 105mm AF-D a good while >> back, I had the 50/1.4 AI Nikkor that was expendable and a bunch of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the less-successful choices? > Looking at the FD 50/2.8, I would guess it might vignette somewhat. Yes, you are correct about the 50/2.8. My assumption when testing these combinations is the wider I would go the greater the magnification I would get. I was wrong since the vinetting and DoF made these choices unusable. Looking back at it now I believe that if I played with lens spacing more by stacking more rings between the two lenses I would have had better success. At that time I really didn't take into consideration lens spacing as a way of optimization. This is a theory and I might be wrong? I kept it to a two ring max combo. Would adding more space between the two lenses fine-tune the combo?
Rita
David Littlewood - 03 Feb 2007 15:29 GMT >>> Well, when I originally built this around my 105mm AF-D a good while >>> back, I had the 50/1.4 AI Nikkor that was expendable and a bunch of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >ring max combo. Would adding more space between the two lenses fine-tune >the combo? Well, it should be cheap enough to try, and experiment beats theory any day. However, from the theory:
Spacing the supplementary lens further from the primary one will do two things. First, it will almost certainly make any vignetting worse, or possibly introduce it where there was none before. The effect would be similar to stacking two filters instead of one on a wide-angle lens.
The second would be to slightly reduce the power of the close-up lens. The usual formula for the combined power of two lenses
1/f = 1/fa + 1/fb
assumes that the two lenses have zero separation. For a separation d, this becomes
1/f = 1/fa + 1/fb - d/(fa*fb)
IOW, f gets bigger for more separation, and thus magnification decreases for a given image distance v (which will be limited by the mount of the primary lens.
However, the second effect would probably be relatively small, at least to the point where vignetting renders the whole thing worthless.
BTW, I assume you know that the supplementary lens should be used wide open, and that aperture should be controlled by the main lens (the one on the camera body) - but worth mentioning as other readers may not know. Stopping down the secondary lens will guarantee bad vignetting.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 03 Feb 2007 20:53 GMT > However, the second effect would probably be relatively small, at > least to the point where vignetting renders the whole thing worthless. Understand. What you say does make sense.
> BTW, I assume you know that the supplementary lens should be used wide > open, and that aperture should be controlled by the main lens (the one > on the camera body) - but worth mentioning as other readers may not > know. Stopping down the secondary lens will guarantee bad vignetting. Yes, I found this out a long time ago when I first did this with my 105mm AF-D. I believe it was Paul Furman that said he had success doing the opposite. I don't see how it worked for him since it didn't for me.
Rita
Paul Furman - 04 Feb 2007 22:57 GMT >> However, the second effect would probably be relatively small, at >> least to the point where vignetting renders the whole thing worthless. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 105mm AF-D. I believe it was Paul Furman that said he had success doing > the opposite. I don't see how it worked for him since it didn't for me. I tested this quite carefully and that was my conclusion. I've read somewhere the recommendation but don't recall which so I had to re-invent the wheel. Perhaps my short 28 makes this more feasible than a 50mm? I recall doing this before with a G lens, no aperture ring and having to reach around the front with my finger & twiddle the spring-loaded tab to stop down and I think that was being done on the written advice. Or just tape that tab open & forget about DOF. It seems this kind of setup makes it impossible to get a real small aperture due to vignetting... another reason it's really just a kludge. But fun to tinker with.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 05 Feb 2007 02:39 GMT > I tested this quite carefully and that was my conclusion. I've read > somewhere the recommendation but don't recall which so I had to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > aperture due to vignetting... another reason it's really just a > kludge. But fun to tinker with. I find your results interesting, though I can't duplicate it. I agree, this is a fun to tinker project that has a few uses for me.
Rita
HankB - 05 Feb 2007 03:24 GMT ...
Thanks for the information and subsequent discussion.
-hank
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