Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / January 2007
Using the Zone System for Digital Photography
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Gisle Hannemyr - 15 Jan 2007 20:48 GMT I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see:
http://hannemyr.com/photo/zonesystem.html
Executive summary; After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, shooting digital is different from shooting film. This meant that some old rules of thumb (e.g. "expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights") had to be reformulated, and that some newer rules of thumb (e.g. Micahel Reichmann's "expose (to the) right") should not be adopted without understanding what they entails. I also found that standard tools, such as Photoshop ACR, is far from ideal for use with a Zone System-based digital workflow.
I welcome your thought on the subject.
 Signature - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------
eawckyegcy@yahoo.com - 15 Jan 2007 21:23 GMT > After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone > System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > right") should not be adopted without understanding what they > entails. The "Zone System", as specified, is merely the chemical equivalent of PhotoSlop's curve tool. But PhotoSlop is a hell of a lot simpler though, in that you don't have to calibrate your media and development and the whole rest of the stuff: that's all been done for you by Canon. "Expose to the right" is utterly identical to "expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights": the laws of physics didn't suddenly change when digital cameras were invented.
Matt Clara - 15 Jan 2007 21:30 GMT >> After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone >> System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > shadows, develop for the highlights": the laws of physics didn't > suddenly change when digital cameras were invented. Except you'll blow your highlights a hell of a lot faster with digital than film.
Floyd L. Davidson - 16 Jan 2007 02:13 GMT >>> After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone >>> System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Except you'll blow your highlights a hell of a lot faster with digital than >film. Accurate exposure is *much* easier with a good digital camera, because you don't need to assume it was right, you can *look* at the image immediately and determine (with a blink on overexposure LCD display or with a histogram) if it was correct.
With many digital cameras it isn't hard to get within 1/3 of a stop every single time.
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
Paul J Gans - 19 Jan 2007 18:23 GMT >>>> After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone >>>> System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>Except you'll blow your highlights a hell of a lot faster with digital than >>film.
>Accurate exposure is *much* easier with a good digital camera, >because you don't need to assume it was right, you can *look* at >the image immediately and determine (with a blink on >overexposure LCD display or with a histogram) if it was correct.
>With many digital cameras it isn't hard to get within 1/3 of a >stop every single time. I'd say it this way: "With many digital cameras it isn't hard to get within 1/3 of stop of where you want it every single time."
The problem of course is knowing where you want it. That's what distinguishes the good photographers from folks like me.
 Signature --- Paul J. Gans
Gisle Hannemyr - 15 Jan 2007 21:41 GMT >> After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone >> System is just as useful with digital as it is with film. However, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> right") should not be adopted without understanding what they >> entails.
> The "Zone System", as specified, is merely the chemical equivalent > of PhotoSlop's curve tool. But PhotoSlop is a hell of a lot simpler > though, in that you don't have to calibrate your media and > development and the whole rest of the stuff: that's all been done > for you by Canon. Eh, no. Photshop's curve tool will let you tweak contrast and dynamic range - but that is just /one/ of things that the Zone System is supposed to handle.
> "Expose to the right" is utterly identical to "expose for the > shadows, develop for the highlights": the laws of physics didn't > suddenly change when digital cameras were invented. Eh, no. It is a (IMHO poor) approximation to "expose for the highlights".
Did you actually read the article I linked to? ( http://hannemyr.com/photo/zonesystem.html )
 Signature - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------
gowanoh - 15 Jan 2007 22:46 GMT This is well written and well thought out. Digital capture and processing are far more flexible than chemical systems even if digital sensors as yet lack the dynamic range of negative film. As such most serious photographers develop a workflow that maximizes what they are trying to capture and print. The impact of software processing of digitized image information is such that the ways photographers think about their tools needs to change. Nevertheless the standard canard still applies that all serious photographers should familiarize themselves with the Zone system because it emphasizes thinking about lighting values in relation to the actual capture properties of the medium. Clearly the Zone system lends itself to static subjects and not every image can be analyzed in the required way prior to capture. The Zone system is essentially predicated on the idea that you want to produce one type of image, the long tone black and white print. The principles of the Zone system, aimed at capturing as much image information as possible, clearly have a place even in the brave new digital world although the long tone black and white print is not a major endpoint for most photographers. Photoshop and the ACR are not a rigid either/or proposition. There is nothing sacred about making adjustments within the converter or within Photoshop. Also the newest CS3 converter is far more flexible than the first generation CS converter. The conversion from digital color to black and white introduces many tonal variables independent of pure exposure issues. Again CS3 contains new tools for accomplishing this.
Alan Browne - 16 Jan 2007 00:58 GMT > I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' > Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I welcome your thought on the subject. 1. The zone is B&W negative exposure, development and print oriented. 2. Slide film is different (exp. for the highlights). 3. Digital, for the most part, behaves like slide in this respect
I'll give your webpage a good read, but I suspect for practical purposes that setting the highlights near the right edge of the histogram is as optimal as it will get unless I'm willing (and I am) to burn some highlights to get details in other areas of the image.
Cheers, Alan.
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Scott W - 16 Jan 2007 02:52 GMT > I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' > Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I welcome your thought on the subject. I think you might want to look at some of the numbers you are using, I get far more then a rangle of 50 to1 with jpeg images and I don't believe you can get close to 500 to 1 printing on any kind of paper.
As for setting the proper exposure it is a pretty rare scene where when I expose to keep from blowing out the highlights I loose the shadow detail.
Scott
Wayne J. Cosshall - 16 Jan 2007 03:44 GMT > I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' > Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I welcome your thought on the subject. Hi Gisle,
I'm reading your paper at present. Most of it I like but a couple of points I think are wrong: 1. In section 2, Background, you say that both the dynamic range and tonal range are a function of the number of bits available. This seems only partly true. The dynamic range of a digital sensor is determined by its charge capacity (ie how full it can get before saturating or overflowing into adjacent pixels (blooming)), linearity of photon to electron conversion efficiency, any electronic gain circuitry, characteristics of the A/D converter, etc. Number of bits determines how finely you can resolve differences within this range, not the size of the range itself. 2. In section 4, you confuse incident metering with reflected light metering, as the way cameras meter. Incident metering uses a handheld light meter with one of those white domes (not necessarily, but commonly) to measure the light that is actually incident to, ie hitting, the subject. Reflected light metering is what cameras use, since they read the light reflected from a scene, hence their tendency to make a black cat in a coal pile look like middle gray.
Cheers,
Wayne
 Signature Wayne J. Cosshall Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/ Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
Gisle Hannemyr - 16 Jan 2007 15:47 GMT >> I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' >> Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> workflow. >> I welcome your thought on the subject.
> I'm reading your paper at present. Most of it I like but a couple of > points I think are wrong:
> 1. In section 2, Background, you say that both the dynamic range and > tonal range are a function of the number of bits available. This [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > etc. Number of bits determines how finely you can resolve > differences within this range, not the size of the range itself. Thank you for pointing this out. I think you are correct. I need to think more carefully about how I describe this. I will revise the article on this point ASAP.
> 2. In section 4, you confuse incident metering with reflected light > metering, as the way cameras meter. Yes. This one is a blooper. I've changed the article and hope I've got it the right way around now. Thank you for the correction.
 Signature - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne J. Cosshall - 16 Jan 2007 22:17 GMT > Thank you for pointing this out. I think you are correct. I need > to think more carefully about how I describe this. I will revise [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes. This one is a blooper. I've changed the article and hope > I've got it the right way around now. Thank you for the correction. Pleasure, Gisle. It is very easy to make a mistake or two in a long article. I know I do it.
Cheers,
Wayne
 Signature Wayne J. Cosshall Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/ Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
Floyd L. Davidson - 16 Jan 2007 05:27 GMT >I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' >Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: > > http://hannemyr.com/photo/zonesystem.html ...
>I welcome your thought on the subject. I like your writing style well enough, and the layout is good. (You need to go over it with a spell checker. When I spell checked this article almost half the mistakes were in the quoted text! Given that I can't spell, your spelling must not be too good either!)
A few points came up while reading.
Limitations ...
It is obvious that with JPEG, which uses 8 bits per channel, the dynamic range cannot exceed 1:256 (i.e. 8 EV).
That would be true if and only if JPEG was using linear data, but it is gamma corrected. JPEG can have at least an 8 f/stop dynamic range. That is a "useful dynamic range", which is generally confined to the range that allows at least 8 brightness values in the lowest f/stop of the range. (If we looked at it the way some people do the dynamic range of film, it would be more like 14 f/stops, but in the darkest level there would only be two levels and that generally would result in very unattractive posterization if actually used.)
Doing it Digital -- First Approach
With digital, we can no longer play around with development times. ...
We can do *exactly* the same thing that happens when we play around with development times. Just change the ISO setting on the camera!
The Troublesome Highlights
With digital, highlights are a real problem. First, we never want overexposed highlights - not even in a single colour channel.
Unlike film, which has great exposure latitude at the highlight end, digital is very unforgiving in the case of overexposure. Detail that is lost through overexposure, is clipped and lost forever. So why should we not place shadow detail in the lowest possible Zone ? that should in most cases contain our highlights well within safe limits?
I realize that is the standard mantra, but it is a sugar coated version of truth. Detail lost with over exposing film is also lost forever. The fact is that pushing highlights up into the toe of the film's range will lose texture too, and just isn't the right way to make good photographs.
The difference is that after you improperly expose film, you still have the option of changing development (to essentially change the ISO rating), where as with a digital camera you can't do that. Of course, with a digital camera you are 1) much more likely to have the tools built into the camera to determine that it is in fact over exposed, and 2) you have the option of adjusting the ISO setting and immediately making another exposure to get the same effect that film would give, or 3) changing the shutter or aperture settings and making another exposure.
Obviously if the scene is a one time only, film has the advantage. But for any scene existing long enough to take multiple images, digital is more likely to result in a valid results.
... Both articles argue that in a 12-bit linear RAW file, 2048 levels (half the 4096 values allowed) will be use to record the f-stop with the brightest tones. It follows that if the values allocted for the brightest tones in the scene are wasted (i.e. your brightest highlights are -1 EV down the tonal scale), you are wasting half the luminance encoding levels your camera is able to record.
The emphasis on "wasting half the luminance encoding levels" is poorly placed. It is a simple fact that in *most* images nearly all (1979 of the 2048) can be deleted without any visible change! (I.e., JPEG uses only 69 levels for that same f/stop.)
It sounds good, but doesn't mean much. Nikon's NEF format can be used with and without compression, and with compression what they do is remove a significant number of brightness levels from the top three f/stops. For most images it has virtually no effect. Only for high key images where the texture of highlights is important does it have an effect (for example, wedding photography).
Reichmann's recommendation, reflected in the title of the article, is that you should use your cameras histogram to evalute the light in the scene, and push exposure towards overexposure so that the histogram moves as far as possible to the right edge (without moving so far that highlights are blown as indicated by your camera's clipping warning). Doing so, Reichmann says, will improve the signal-to-noise ratio and therefore produce less noise and banding in the darker areas.
The effect is, as others have stated... just about exactly the same as using the zone system with film. The difference is that you do both exposure and development at the click of the shutter release with digital, and don't make adjustment between those steps. That is to say the ISO setting is done before the shutter release with digital, but can be adjusted afterwards with film. In either case contrast and the black point are set in the process of printing (or display).
The real difference is that with a digital camera we probably have a histogram and maybe a blink-on-overexposure display to help determine if the exposure is correct. Histograms are nice, but a blink-on-overexposure display is essential if there are light sources, or other highlights that are to allowed to be over exposed, in the scene.
With film the same effect is accomplished by using a spotmeter. It requires an eye for scenes and light, knowing corrects for various lenses or accessories (bellows, extension tubes, etc) as well as the ability to provide uniform development of the film, based on the desired effects, every time. These skills are what makes a film photographer consistent. (Part of the reason many film photographers enjoy using film is simply that it *does* require certain skills, and because they have honed those skills it is certainly fun to use them! And more or less natural to dismiss digital as photography that doesn't require skills...)
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
Ken Lucke - 16 Jan 2007 23:33 GMT > I've just put up a note about my thoughts on adapting Ansel Adams' > Zone System for digital photography on my website. Please see: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I welcome your thought on the subject. There's a Photoshop plugin that already does this automatically - it's called Ozone (current version is 2.0):
http://www.pluginz.com/product/10254?from=rlist
 Signature You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard
Robert Peirce - 17 Jan 2007 02:05 GMT > > Executive summary; > > After a lot of trial and (mostly) error, I found that the Zone [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > is far from ideal for use with a Zone System-based digital > > workflow. Digital seems to be more lenient. If you want to use the zone system, check out LightZone. You can get a free 30-day trial. For me it was like returning to the darkroom but a much modernized version.
 Signature Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883 bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac] rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
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