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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / January 2007Canadians Buying Camera Equipment in the USA
Hi All, I'm looking for input from any Canadians who have purchased new camera equipment in the US from officially recognized dealers (as opposed to buying grey market) either on the web or purchased from a retail outlet. I'm curious about terms such as "Nikon US Warranty" and how warranty repairs or other service work was dealt with back in Canada. Other postings seem to indicate that Canon will cover warranty work regardless (international warranty), but Nikon take a much stricter view of where the camera was purchased and refuse service work and at times selling parts to repair cameras without a valid serial number for a specific country. Any thoughts or experiences would be much appreciated. This was discussed about a month ago on Usenet, not sure which newsgroup but you could find it with Google. You're asking a very specific question about Nikon and I don't think you will find many here who have personal experience. After all, most of us buy cameras and never test the warranty. I have been happy and confident with Canon, but have never needed to test the warranty question. Dave > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Any thoughts or experiences would be much appreciated. Nikon are a.sholes when it comes to warranty. The fact that Canada/US is the largest trade pairing in the world seems to escape them. Last year the Nikon 9000 ED was US$1800 (B&H) and CAD$3300. Even accounting for the difference (at the time) in the US and CAD $, it was a total ripoff to buy the 9000 in Canada. And of course if you buy in the US then the US warranty applied. Finally, in late 2006 the Canadian price aligned closer to the US price (and the US price increased as the US dollar continued its decay) so I bought the CAD version in order to "enjoy" the Nikon warranty at a premium of about CAD$250 over the US price. I just didn't want to have a "US" unit here failing and needing shipping back for repair. (It is a very large and heavy scanner). Why is this? Nikon USA is a US company that markets Nikon products in the US. There is no Canadian tie. Nikon Canada imports from Japan separately from Nikon USA. (It may come on the same boat and container, but they are segregated invoices and destinees). To my knowledge only Nikon are as idiotic as this in the popular photo equipment world. As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. According to another Canadian poster, you can go get your package at UPS and fill out the customs paperwork yourself and save all or at least most of the brokerage charges. I don't know that this is in fact true. When B&H used FedEx, the FedEx brokerage charge was very resonable. In the US, trusted names for photo gear ordering are B&H and Adorama. Cheers, Alan  Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > > Hi All, > > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin > -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. I/ve never had a problem with Canon warrantee support, bafck when my XT was in warrantee. They took the camera back, cleaned it and checked the electrical system as I thought I was having problems with it. It was eating batteries alive. When it returned from Canon, the battery problem had been solved. I can fill the good part of a 2gb card with L+RAW images without changing the battery. Quite amazing really. Harry H. Flaxman Applictions Engineer (retired0 > As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings > is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > In the US, trusted names for photo gear ordering are B&H and Adorama. AFAIK B&H will ship USPS to Canada for most shipments -- the Canadian post office has a nominal fee for customs handling. SignatureBrian Sullivan Courses by Wire (http://www.coursesbywire.com) >>As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings >>is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > AFAIK B&H will ship USPS to Canada for most shipments -- the Canadian post > office has a nominal fee for customs handling. I'm not very happy using FedEx/UPS for shipments of electro-mechanical gear, even less so by "post". Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > >>As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings > >>is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cheers, > Alan The scum at UPS are now being sued for their undisclosed border brokerage charges. They can be as high as $60 on a $200 item. They are crooks. Please join my team in the fight against cancer. http://www.grid.org/services/teams/team.htm?id=9184296B-D4ED-49A2-A173-AEB0DD18A6CE >> As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings >> is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > AFAIK B&H will ship USPS to Canada for most shipments -- the Canadian post > office has a nominal fee for customs handling. Amen to that! I will always refuse to deal with any usa company that insists on shipping UPS. Their shipping rates and brokerage fees are a deal-killer! Ken (in Canada). > Please join my team in the fight against cancer. > http://www.grid.org/services/teams/team.htm?id=9184296B-D4ED-49A2-A173-AEB0DD18A6CE [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > UPS. > Their shipping rates and brokerage fees are a deal-killer! Same here but more for the destruction of packages and complete inflexibility on deliveries. Two companies I've worked for have given up on shipping computers amongst branch offices via UPS, we had a run of 8 straight computers thrashed at my last job. And I can remember only one broken part handled by Fedex. And as far as flexibility goes, at least here in southern California, at worst Fedex will have a package held at the local office the SAME EVENING of the delivery attempt, and at best they've come back by my place after calling my calling them, same with Airborne but not as many people ship Airborne. And there are FedEx/Kinkos everywhere around here, I've never lived more than a mile from one. If I miss a UPS delivery and don't think I'll be there for delivery the next day I have to wait until the next night at best to pick it up, and they don't use their Mailboxes Etc to leave packages at which means a 15 mile drive in shitty traffic to get to their depot. In fact, when I have the choice when purchasing on the web I pick USPS first, FedEx next, and then anything else after that. USPS doesn't have the tracking that the private companies do so I usually don't get that option for higher ticket items. Greg Signature"All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons > Two companies I've worked for have given up on shipping computers > amongst branch offices via UPS, we had a run of 8 straight computers > thrashed at my last job. And I can remember only one broken part > handled by Fedex. hehehehe..... I worked for UPS (briefly) loading trucks back in the 80's. That damn conveyor belt doesn't stop for anything; jammed box, loader can't keep up with speed, box falls off.... it doesn't care -- just keeps rolling for 4 frig'n hours! SignatureSlack - destroyed my share of boxes >> As to saving money, be careful. Since B&H switched to UPS, the savings >> is eroded by UPS' horrible brokerage fees in Canada. A true ripoff. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > AFAIK B&H will ship USPS to Canada for most shipments -- the Canadian post > office has a nominal fee for customs handling. Canada Post often forgets to collect the fee. Thanks for all the input. At the same time I posted the original question here I e-mailed both Nikon Canada & Canon Canada and asked the same question. >From Customer Support at Canon Canada; "The warranty for digital cameras and lenses is valid for both Canada and the U.S.A as long as you have a valid sales receipt from a authorized sales dealer from Canada or the U.S.A." No response to date from Nikon Canada. Hmmm. I did a couple of on-line checks to make a pricing comparison between US dealers (B&H and Adorama) and Canadian Dealers (Henry's and Vistek), what I found did not surprise me. By the time I converted the USD prices to Canadian funds, the package (a Nikon D200 w/ an AF-S 28-70mm lens) was about $450.00 less in New York than in Toronto. Would it cost $450.00 to pay the shipping, insurance & duty on this package from New York to Toronto? More than likely it would on a $3,500.00 package. Could you travel to New York for a weekend and buy the camera directly for the $450.00 savings? As enjoyable as a weekend in New York would be it would likely cost at least that much for my girlfriend and I (yes I could travel myself much cheaper but no I can't travel myself if you catch my meaning) to make the trip, and you are still required by law to declare that purchase and pay the duty and taxes when crossing the border. I used to travel to the US quite frequently and never bought a single thing because of the high exchange rate. Now that the gap between the dollars has closed, it would seem there is very little incentive to risk buying items out of the US, and judging by what others have said Nikon may not uphold a "Nikon US Warranty" in Canada. There is a Henry's store close to my home that have always given me great advice and better service, it only makes sense to buy something like this package locally. I do realize that B&H and Adorama don't have the "best prices", but one has to wonder when reputable dealers are selling the D200 for $1,699.00 and somebody else is listing the "same camera" for $1,129.00... what are they actually selling? Terms like "you get what you pay for" and "buyer beware" spring to mind. You could buy from the lowest price people and never have any problems or issues and pat yourself on the back having saved a chunk of change... or you could create a nightmare for yourself. These are electronic devices and electronic devices do pop widgets, something like a blown image processor chip or a defective sensor would run some pretty serious coin to get fixed without a proper warranty and you may wind up cursing the day you saved $500.00 on that camera. > I did a couple of on-line checks to make a pricing comparison between > US dealers (B&H and Adorama) and Canadian Dealers (Henry's and Vistek), [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cost $450.00 to pay the shipping, insurance & duty on this package from > New York to Toronto? Where have you been? At no time in the past 15 years (and probably more) has it ever been cost effective to purchase moderately expensive, well-built equipment in Canada (say, over $500 -- especially over $1000). Virtually everything I use came from B&H or Adorama, mailorder, and I probably have saved many thousands by doing so. Heck, I bought my EF 500/4 from B&H. Neither Vistek nor Henry's even stock this item, and when I asked (as a joke), I was given a price three thousand in excess of the B&H price and a delivery time on the order of several weeks. >More than likely it would on a $3,500.00 package. I think I paid $150 for the shipping on my big-a.s lens, and only because it was so big and heavy and I wanted it fast. Again, where have you been all this time? > Could you travel to New York for a weekend and buy the camera directly > for the $450.00 savings? As enjoyable as a weekend in New York would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to declare that purchase and pay the duty and taxes when crossing the > border. There has been no duty on electronics, optics, or similar for many, many, years. Up until 2000(? I forget) you could even escape provincial sales tax, just paying the GST. Going to NYC and doing the deal in person and walking away with the item is a non-starter, as you will pay New York sales tax on the transaction. But I'm told you can walk into the store and have it shipped home, in which case there is no sales tax. One day I will endure the sacred haj to B&H and test this theory, but thankfully, I have no particular urge to visit NYC. > I used to travel to the US quite frequently and never bought a single > thing because of the high exchange rate. Now that the gap between the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and better service, it only makes sense to buy something like this > package locally. I'm sorry to break the sad news to you but: Henry's and Vistek are for the fearful ignorant. I use them for inexpensive stuff I need right now -- a 4GB CF card the other week -- and for hand-holding and trying out gear prior to ordering from B&H. Actually buying from them is at a steep loss most of the time. People who obsess over about warranties -- forgetting the likelihood of needing such things for well-built expensive stuff -- should probably go to Henry's and be fleeced. > I do realize that B&H and Adorama don't have the "best prices", but one > has to wonder when reputable dealers are selling the D200 for $1,699.00 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > warranty and you may wind up cursing the day you saved $500.00 on that > camera. Run and hide, sir FUDster. The probability of this is low, and even if there is some warranty fuckup (doubtful), the amount you save by buying from B&H goes to the (unlikely) repair bill. Sometimes you lose, almost all of the rest of the time you win. And big. > Run and hide, sir FUDster. Thanks for the input and opinions. However, an honest question does not deserve your insults. A simple statement of your experiences would have sufficed. > > Run and hide, sir FUDster. > > Thanks for the input and opinions. > > However, an honest question does not deserve your insults. A simple > statement of your experiences would have sufficed. Excuse me, but when your "questions" are just simply a disguise for afactual innuendo of someone who simply has no experience on the matter he pontificates publicly, I call you a FUDster, because that is exactly what you are acting like. Whether this is a real thing or not, I don't know though: you haven't offered me enough evidence yet. But it seems more and more like you need to do business at Henry's or Vistek and leave this mailorder stuff to those who can deal with the infinitesimal increase in risk. Of the two, I'd recommend Vistek, as their sales people appear to have more of a clue than the ones at Henry's. Slightly more. Well, statistically significant. At best. > Where have you been? At no time in the past 15 years (and probably > more) has it ever been cost effective to purchase moderately expensive, > well-built equipment in Canada (say, over $500 -- especially over > $1000). It can be if you actually know how to go about it and do some homework. I bought a Nikon D100 body a couple of years ago from an out-of-province store. Their price was about $100 CDN less than either Henry's or Vistek (but well over $1,000), the shipping cost was $0.00, I saved the 8% Ontario PST, and it was on my doorstep the next day. Total cost to me was about $200 less than the NY online retailers, I got a Canadian warranty (2 years vs. 1) and I got it about 2 weeks quicker than had I bought it in the US. I have several acquaintances with similar experiences. It sure seemed cost-effective to me. > It can be if you actually know how to go about it and do some homework. > I bought a Nikon D100 body a couple of years ago from an out-of-province [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bought it in the US. I have several acquaintances with similar > experiences. It sure seemed cost-effective to me. This is quite right. Not trying to pimp any place in particular, but comparing D200 bodies: B&H: $1400 US Camera Warehouse (Olds AB): $1790 CAN The *total* price for CW is $1900, which includes GST, and free shipping. No PST, because the seller is in AB. B&H is $1645 CAN, + 14% tax (GST + PST, at least in ONT, collected by the post office, or whoever you ship it through) = $1875. Now add shipping + duties. To add insult to injury, the Post Office will also charge you a $5 handling fee to collect the other fees! So unless shipping and duties are under $25 (which I doubt), you're better off at one of the out-of-province mail order places in AB. Drew > This is quite right. Not trying to pimp any place in particular, but > comparing D200 bodies: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > shipping and duties are under $25 (which I doubt), you're better off at > one of the out-of-province mail order places in AB. The real incentive is that B&H will not ship a D200 body to Canada :-) (P.S. There are no duties on camera gear from the US) > The real incentive is that B&H will not ship a D200 body to Canada :-) > (P.S. There are no duties on camera gear from the US) Really? I thought that all items not manufactured in the US were subject to duty. Is there an exemption for photo gear? Drew >> The real incentive is that B&H will not ship a D200 body to Canada :-) >> (P.S. There are no duties on camera gear from the US) > > Really? I thought that all items not manufactured in the US were > subject to duty. Is there an exemption for photo gear? I've never been charged, and I've ordered lots over the years, USPS/CanPost exclusively. > Really? I thought that all items not manufactured in the US were > subject to duty. Is there an exemption for photo gear? > > Drew As a standard, there is no duty on camera equipment for Canadians, no matter where the device is manufactured. I have a similar experience to that described by "eawckyegcy" above. Even including the Canon f4 500mm lens (!). In total I've purchased nearly $20,000 worth of camera equipment from B&H with almost no difficulties. Once I bought a spotting scope and the shipping company did charge me duty, but I complained and Ottawa refunded the money as I was using it as a camera lens. I sent them a pic of my camera attached to the scope and that did the trick. B&H tell you what carrier to use, and they use only air shipping which avoids those exorbitant ground import fees. Don't expect to pay much at all for shipping, maybe $70 or so. They will add GST of course, nothing more for me as I live in Alberta. Overall it is an easy experience. I therefore insist that camera stores compete with international pricing if they want my business. In my experience the lower-end equipment is usually competitive but for top line gear the prices at a place like B&H are usually better. Sure, you may be able to lower prices from unknown sellers, but there are few mail-order businesses with bigger volume or as many positive remarks on the 'net. Dave Dave, Thanks for your valuable input to my original question; you have given me a much greater comfort level with buying camera stuff outside of Canada. I'm surprized by the duty exemption but it's a good thing to know. As you can tell (and as "eawckyegcy" so eloquently pointed out) I've never purchased camera equipment in the US. Years ago I had a software sales and development business and importing products from the US was brutal... shipping, insurance, duties, brokerage and dealing with Canada Customs would often leave me reeling. So I guess my fear of dropping thousands of dollars with an unknown entity has some basis in my experience. Any warranty tales good, bad or otherwise you care to pass on? This is another item that I'm nervous about (which qualities me for the FUDster hall of fame according to some), if I were buying a Canon it looks like I'd be fine... but Nikon's silence makes me wonder. > Dave, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > hall of fame according to some), if I were buying a Canon it looks like > I'd be fine... but Nikon's silence makes me wonder. Be careful of "made up as we go along" policies from Canadian distributors on any items they distribute in Canada. This means even those items which carry a written "International Warranty" with the item, if it fails and you have bought it in another country (even while living there and later moving your household to Canada). You will have to return it to the country of purchase for repair. This is even if the distributor in the country of purchase disagrees with the position of the Canadian distributor. You are on your own. I refer here to the distributor of Tamron (my personal experience) products in Canada as one example. These third rate distribution channels which operate on the basis that they need "protection" from the big bad consumer making his own decision on normal economic grounds make me puke. Witness the great number of US distributors who will not ship specific products to Canada. Gitzo is a good example. Look them up on Kirk or RRS or B&H and read the fine print. Protection for the local distributor, pure & simple. It is laughable to think they assume they can continue this restrictive activity long term. The DF's just don't get it! You are wise to check in advance and I (like you) think the lack of an answer from Nikon Canada is telling in the extreme. Bob > Camera Warehouse (Olds AB): $1790 CAN Simons in Montreal are asking $1,730. I spoke with Nikon Canada earlier today and the Nikon US Warranty is NOT recognized by Nikon Canada. Any repair work under warranty would have to be sent back to the US. Somewhere in this thread somebody indicated that B&H would not ship a D200 into Canada, so I e-mailed them and they replied; "Unfortunately due to an agreement B&H has with Nikon USA, we are not allowed to ship any Nikon DSLR camera bodies outside the USA." I also e-mailed the same question to Adorama and am waiting for a reply but I'll assume the answer would be similar. So sports fans it's all over but the shouting. To verify my price facts I just went back to the B&H website; the D200 body is currently listing for $1,399.95 USD, converted into Canadian funds (using the most current rate posted on the Royal Banks web site for buying US funds) that would cost me $1,670.00 Canadian. Vistek currently has the D200 body listed for $1,799.00, so at best I'd be saving $129.00 but still have to pay shipping to a US address and then pay shipping again to my location in Canada AND as an added bonus not have a valid warranty... and the "enormous" cost savings are where? Perhaps there are greater savings and less risk with lenses but I've either missing the "big savings bandwagon" or buying this specific camera body in the US makes no sense. > Perhaps there are greater savings and less risk with lenses but I've > either missing the "big savings bandwagon" or buying this specific > camera body in the US makes no sense. Your country provides broader social services to its citizens, and levies higher taxes on goods to help pay for that policy. When you attempt to get around the established Canadian distribution channel, you are really cheating your government. So, are we supposed to feel sorry because you can't have your cake and eat it too? > So, are we supposed to feel sorry because you can't have your cake and eat > it too? No not at all. My comments illustrate that the gap has closed significantly over the years between Canadian & US retail goods and was aimed at a few in this thread who claimed to have saved "thousands" by buying their gear in the US. I'm very happy for them but I just can't see that happening today, the numbers just don't add up. There was I time when the prices quoted in US magazines for consumer goods generally would make Canadians eyes pop out of their heads. Clearly that is no longer the case for cameras. Earlier in this thread I stated I used to travel to the US quite a bit and never bought a thing because of the exchange rate. I'd walk into a Best Buy in Minnesota and see a CD I had just bought at a Best Buy in Toronto with the same price tag... except at that time the exchange rate made the one in Minnesota close to 50% more expensive. Americans travelling in Canada saved money not the reverse. Even if total madness struck me and I accepted the loss of a warranty and the shipping rigmarole and actually bought this D200 from B&H, I would still have to hand the government the GST (Goods & Services Tax) as it crossed the border (one of the things your carrier or customs broker does on your behalf and then charges you the tax and a brokerage fee). Some here have stated there would be no Ontario PST (Provincial Sales Tax) which kind of makes sense, if your not buying something in the province of Ontario how is the Ontario government entitled to any tax revenue? However, I can say without fear of contradiction that all branches of government in Canada rarely miss an opportunity to collect taxes; and if they do miss it, trust me they will come back and get it later. So I don't see how any level of my government misses anything in a legal transaction between a Canadian and a US retailer. The people who would really miss out are the Canadian retailers who don't get their margin when making the sale, and as I clearly stated this transaction in the US makes no sense on several levels. >> So, are we supposed to feel sorry because you can't have your cake and >> eat [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > buying their gear in the US. I'm very happy for them but I just can't > see that happening today, the numbers just don't add up. <SNIP> I agree the differences are smaller now than a few years ago, as Canadians become more 'net savvy and more comfortable with international transactions. I believe that Canadian companies are getting the message. Certainly for commonly sold items prices are coming in to line, and there is a risk and cost to mail orders. However for top-end equipment, expect to pay less to a high volume dealer who is familiar with international competition. Here's an example for the Canon 2.8 300mm IS lens: B&H 3899 USD = 4570 CAD Henry's 4999 CAD Vistek 4999 CAD McBain camera 5499 CAD Even with extra charge for shipping there is a significant cost saving, especially if you need shipping within Canada from some of the above stores. Of course you may be able to find cheaper prices but then seller reputation comes to play as well. When you pool an order the shipping costs come down relative to total cost. Dave > Perhaps there are greater savings and less risk with lenses but I've > either missing the "big savings bandwagon" or buying this specific > camera body in the US makes no sense. If you're not in Quebec, try Simon's in Montreal. http://simonscameras.com/ Total for a D200 would be $1,844.29 incl. GST. No PST, no-charge shipping. > > Perhaps there are greater savings and less risk with lenses but I've > > either missing the "big savings bandwagon" or buying this specific [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Total for a D200 would be $1,844.29 incl. GST. No PST, no-charge shipping. Thanks Doug, Good tip and their prices on accessories & memory cards are a touch lower than Henry's & Vistek. I assume if you go there and buy the camera you have to pay Quebec sales tax... pity. Montreal is a great place, I can't think of a more beautiful city to spend a weekend trying out a new camera. > Good tip and their prices on accessories & memory cards are a touch > lower than Henry's & Vistek. I assume if you go there and buy the > camera you have to pay Quebec sales tax... pity. Montreal is a great > place, I can't think of a more beautiful city to spend a weekend trying > out a new camera. If you order it online and you're outside Quebec, you don't pay PST, which is not insignificant on this item. Sure, Montreal's nice; I visit frequently. But is it worth all that PST? I received a further clarification from Nikon Canada; "Any DSLR's only have warranty in the country that they are purchased in. If you buy one in the USA it will only have warranty in the US. Nikon has an office in New York that you can send it to. If you buy a lens in the USA it has one year international warranty, we can service it for you under warranty for the first year as long as you buy it from an authorized Nikon USA dealer with a bill of sale and a warranty card. The only international warranty that we have is on lenses and speedlights and F5 camera or F6 camera ( not on any digital cameras )" Adorama also responded to my question regarding shipping camera bodies to Canada... Nikon do not allow it. So Nikon protect their dealer channel world-wide and if you have ever been on the short end of that stick (as I was in the software business) you have to tip your hat to Nikon for establishing a policy and then sticking to it. |
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