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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / January 2007Portrait with 5D + 135 mm f/2
I love the 135/2 L - it's the best lens I've ever used. Almost hurts to take it off the camera, which happens pretty rarely. http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html > I love the 135/2 L > http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html The black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism.  SignatureAnti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA >> I love the 135/2 L >> http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html > > The black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. > Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. In this case, I disagree Entirely. >> I love the 135/2 L >> http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html > > The black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned > out. Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. Completely disagree on this one... SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > >http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. > Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. I dunno ... that's a touchy subject. I almost never clone unique features like that out, unless asked. She's seen it in the mirror for 30 years; she'd notice it missing in a photo. And I'm nervous to do anything that could be interpreted as "This makes you unattractive - you would look much better without it." >> >http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle >> >of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > anything that could be interpreted as "This makes you unattractive - > you would look much better without it." I agree. Temporary blemishes are something I feel free to remove, or permanent ones that the subject has mentioned as being bothersome, or asked to have removed. Moles, freckles, etc. stay for fear of just what you mention. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm > I agree. Temporary blemishes are something I feel free to remove, or > permanent ones that the subject has mentioned as being bothersome, or asked > to have removed. Moles, freckles, etc. stay for fear of just what you > mention. Its a tricky subject one of real value for this group, before putting something that the model would not like perhaps the safe approach is showing two examples to the client and asking which they would prefer, and saying you really like their choice in the decision! Signature"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, July 26, 1920. Reality-Is finding that perfect picture and never looking back. www.gregblankphoto.com On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:56:24 -0500, "Greg \"_\"" <grey_egg@greg_photo.com> wrote: >Its a tricky subject one of real value for this group, before putting >something that the model would not like perhaps the safe approach is >showing two examples to the client and asking which they would prefer, >and saying you really like their choice in the decision! For some of my more self-conscious (female) subjects, I've asked them if they'd prefer their picture to have an 'Art' look or a 'Cosmo' look. If they aren't sure what I'm getting at, (very rare!), I'll show them both 'looks' on *someone else's* portrait. For reasons that are probably pretty obvious to anyone here who's done a lot of portraits, I will /not/ let sit down & watch me retouch their shot on the PC at 100% magnification! ;) >>>>http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle >>>>of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I agree. Temporary blemishes are something I feel free to remove, or Well stated distinction. I have often removed pimples or red-rash from faces in photoshop. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > I have often removed pimples or red-rash > from faces in photoshop. Perhaps after so much fuss I should explain my original beef with the photo in question: If the photo we all were invited to view was intended as a "portrait" done FOR a particular person, I agree that person's characteristic features should be respected. OTOH, the photo was presented in this newsgroup in "look at what my lens can do" fashion, and thus seemed to ask to be judged on its own merit as a generalized work of work, not as a documentary depiction of a particular person. My reaction on first seeing the photo was that the blemish was an eye-stopping distraction in a photo which deserved some cosmetic enhancement. The photographer saw a particular woman, I saw "Woman" with a capital W. My philosophy is that we should strive to create images more than merely record reality... otherwise we are all copyists rather than artists. Hope I haven't dug myself further into this hole :^) SignatureAnti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA >> I have often removed pimples or red-rash >> from faces in photoshop. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Hope I haven't dug myself further into this hole :^) He "created that image" most likely to capture a *person*, which is what most portraits are. Each person includes characteristics that make them unique. As soon as you start removing permanent, unique characteristics, you reduce all your models to some preconceived "norm." Once you start down that path, you've cheapened your subjects in the same way an antique chest is cheapened when you sand and repaint it. If you want a "product" then go ahead and airbrush ever curve and remove every double chin. But if you want a portrait, then I hope you's want to preserve the person. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >>I have often removed pimples or red-rash >>from faces in photoshop. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Hope I haven't dug myself further into this hole :^) I'll throw in a ladder. Occasionally I see images of women where the very fine hair on their cheeks is visible, the very grain (if you will) of their skin shows, very real and astonishingly beautiful. Then I see images that have been photoshopped to death and the women have plastic looking, ugly skin. "For a person" means making a pleasing (usually) image of them. The image referenced is quite beautiful. Not a formal portrait, more spontaneous in look. Unless she asked for it to be removed I wouldn't touch it. I suspect that the subject would never even think of such a thing. People know what their "permanent" blemishes are. They are part of their makeup and they won't be offended by them. (If they weere they'd have them removed). We're talking "portraits" here, not advertisements in Vanity Fair. There it is all "image" and to believe that those ladies are consistently as perfect as presented is proof of dreams and the success of illusion. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >>>> http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle >>>> of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to have removed. Moles, freckles, etc. stay for fear of just what you > mention. It hasn't slowed Cindy Crawford in any way. If the model asks me that's another thing. > > >http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle of > > >her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > anything that could be interpreted as "This makes you unattractive - > you would look much better without it." I agree: less visible stuff I would remove, that (the mole) is a choice-her's (so it should be respected). She is beautiful regardless. Your site is well put together, some images don't load on my older version of Safari. With regard to composition on your landscapes and choice for viewing you need to be more selective. Signature"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, July 26, 1920. Reality-Is finding that perfect picture and never looking back. www.gregblankphoto.com >> >http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.htmlThe black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. >> Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >anything that could be interpreted as "This makes you unattractive - >you would look much better without it." Ditto. And besides; those little quirks often make the difference between a boring, generic-looking shot & one that's really 'alive' & interesting to look at. For portraits, I'll remove flaws if the subject wants me to, but I usually try to talk them out of it. PS: I have the 135mm f/2L, & it's the best lens I've ever used - especially for portraiture. The only reason it's not my most-used lens is that it's a bit too long on the 1Dmk2 for the spaces I generally shoot in. Charles Gillen <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote: >> I love the 135/2 L >> http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html > > The black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned > out. Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. Count me as another who totally disagrees. >>I love the 135/2 L >>http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html > > The black spot in the middle of her upper lip is begging to be cloned out. > Sometimes one should opt for Beauty over Realism. Absolutely not. It's charming. Enhancing. Accentuating. "Beauty" is not by airbrush. Think of what's her name of "Sex and the City". What a honker of a nose! And quite the ugly lump near her mouth. Yet a very pretty lady. Supermodel Cindy Crawford has tons of blemishes including a large mole near her mouth. Enhance, not detract. In Europe in the 1700's ladies would add false moles to their cheeks as an accent. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > Think of what's her name of "Sex and the City". What a honker of a > nose! And quite the ugly lump near her mouth. Yet a very pretty lady. I never notice it on her! On Sara I never would see it- the bubbly persona she has precludes it. I don't watch that show only commercials. Signature"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, July 26, 1920. Reality-Is finding that perfect picture and never looking back. www.gregblankphoto.com >>Think of what's her name of "Sex and the City". What a honker of a >>nose! And quite the ugly lump near her mouth. Yet a very pretty lady. > > I never notice it on her! On Sara I never would see it- the bubbly > persona she has precludes it. I don't watch that show only commercials. I watched about 20 minutes of an episode of "Sex and the city" and found it to be one of the most insipid programs ever made. I'll never watch it again. But what's-her-name does have a striking face! Cheers, Akan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > I love the 135/2 L - it's the best lens I've ever used. Almost hurts > to take it off the camera, which happens pretty rarely. > > http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html I like it...a lot. This is a great example of how shallow DOF can be used to great effect in a face. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >I love the 135/2 L - it's the best lens I've ever used. Almost hurts >to take it off the camera, which happens pretty rarely. It's my favourite lens too. It'd be my most used lens if I had a full-frame DSLR. >http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html Lovely! I also particularly liked this one: <http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/LesliWithHummingbirdMoth.html> How big a burst did you have to shoot to get that one? ;) > I also particularly liked this one: > <http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/LesliWithHummingbirdMoth.html> > How big a burst did you have to shoot to get that one? ;) That was a "hail mary pass." A burst of two, and both of them by manual focus - a few dozen hummingbird moths were having a go at all the dandelions in a clearing, I'd been trying to track them and having no luck with AF, and given up on it by the time I heard my name, turned around, and saw a once in a lifetime opportunity. Well, I hope I'm wrong on that last bit. >> I also particularly liked this one: >> <http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/LesliWithHummingbirdMoth.html> >> How big a burst did you have to shoot to get that one? ;) > >That was a "hail mary pass." Lucky bastard! > A burst of two, and both of them by >manual focus - a few dozen hummingbird moths were having a go at all >the dandelions in a clearing, I'd been trying to track them and having >no luck with AF, and given up on it by the time I heard my name, turned >around, and saw a once in a lifetime opportunity. Don't you love it when that happens? I've gotten a few of my favourite photos that way. OTOH, you also get those days when you plan for a week to make sure you're in the right place at the right time, do everything right, blow a hundred shots, & *still* don't get a good one. Still, that's what keeps it interesting. ;) > Well, I hope I'm >wrong on that last bit. <grin> Ditto. >> I also particularly liked this one: >> <http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/LesliWithHummingbirdMoth.html> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > around, and saw a once in a lifetime opportunity. Well, I hope I'm > wrong on that last bit. Absolutely uplifting shot! > I love the 135/2 L - it's the best lens I've ever used. Almost hurts > to take it off the camera, which happens pretty rarely. > > http://forrestcroce.com/Photos/NallyBW.html Nice.. but.. I would throw in an alternative view - I think you can easily have too *little* depth of field, and I think this shot suffers slightly from that. I find that such a portrait begins to look unnatural when features that are very close in their distance from the lens (and therefore their perceived distance from the viewer) show such a different level of sharpness, especially eyes... In this case I would have stopped down a little more so that the rearmost eye was only just o-o-f. But that's just me. (This also raises the issue of the accuracy of d-o-f preview - there was an interesting thread recently pointing out that the viewfinder d-o-f may differ quite markedly from the actual recorded result...) I agree with all posters who say that 'blemishes' (aka 'beauty marks') should only be altered if the issue is raised by the model, in this type of portraiture... |
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