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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / January 2007

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Canon 400D vs 30D

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VC - 31 Dec 2006 20:29 GMT
I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
Adrian Boliston - 31 Dec 2006 20:42 GMT
>I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

Why not get the cheaper body and put the saving towards better glass?

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk
Alan Browne - 31 Dec 2006 20:56 GMT
> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

Not particularly.  What do you get more with the 30D?

- less pixels
+ spot metering
+ ISO 3200
+ 5 fps (v 3)
+ 1/8000 shutter speed (v 1/4000)
- heavier and larger.
+ magnesium shell (v. some aluminum and lots of plastic)

That's about it.

The spot metering is not as important in a digital camera as it is in a
film camera.  You can always 'chimp' to optimal exposure.

Faster frame rate alone will make the decision for some buyers ... so
are you that buyer?

I'd go with the 400D and with the saved $ maybe improve on glass or get
a high end flash.

Cheers,
Alan

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Stephen M. Dunn - 31 Dec 2006 21:41 GMT
$VC wrote:
$> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
$> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

  For some people, definitely yes.  For some people, definitely no.
For some people, it would be a tough choice.

  Looking at the list of difference between the features of these
two bodies, what stuff do you see in the 30D that you think would be
useful, to you, for what you shoot?

$Not particularly.  What do you get more with the 30D?
$
$- less pixels

  True, but the practical difference between 8 and 10 megapixels is
rather slight unless you're going to be cropping very heavily or making
very large prints.  Unless one of those applies to you, the pixel
difference isn't of much importance.  For instance, the 30D is more than
capable of taking pictures that make excellent 8x10/8x12" prints.

$- heavier and larger.

  Before you mark that as a negative, get your paws on both cameras.
Some people find a camera the size and weight of a 30D too big and
heavy; some find the 400D too small and toy-like.  There are also
some people who find that either one is more comfortable with the
optional battery grip, and others who think they're just fine the
way they are.

  The only way to know if one or the other will be comfortable in
your hands is to try them for yourself.

$That's about it.

  The 400D also has dust-removal hardware and software.  The jury's
still out on how well the hardware works; I don't think there's any
doubt that it has a positive effect, but rather whether it has enough
of a positive effect to reduce the frequency with which the user must
clean the sensor.  The software side is all very well, but as it is
implemented by the camera tagging (not removing) dusty spots and
then software on your computer taking those tags and editing the
picture for you, you only benefit from this one if you're using
software that can do this - which, AFAIK, currently ties you to
the Canon software that ships with the camera; I don't believe any
third parties have implemented this in their editors or RAW
converters.

$The spot metering is not as important in a digital camera as it is in a
$film camera.  You can always 'chimp' to optimal exposure.

  Spot metering is another of those things that divides people.
Some will scream bloody murder if they find a camera that doesn't have
it, while others shrug their shoulders.  I guess if you're accustomed
to having it, you won't want a camera without it.  If you've never had
it, it's probably not a big deal for you if your next camera doesn't
have it, either.
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Stephen M. Dunn                             <stephen@stevedunn.ca>

>>>----------------> http://www.stevedunn.ca/ <----------------<<<
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Jon B - 07 Jan 2007 14:16 GMT
> > I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> > Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I'd go with the 400D and with the saved $ maybe improve on glass or get
> a high end flash.

I ended up with the 400D because I couldn't justify the extra cost as a
rank amateur. However for me the main reason for wanting the 30D would
be the extra size [1], my old D30 felt so much better in the hand than
the 400D. If I was shooting everyday that alone would be enough to sway
it for me.

[1] I've ended up buying the grip anyway for the 400D.
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Pete D - 31 Dec 2006 21:20 GMT
>I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

The handling of the 30D is so far superior to the 400D that any other
consideration becomes trivial by comparison. I am not a Canon shooter but a
good friend went from a 10D to a 350D to a 20D and then last week went to a
30D and has never regretted doing so, the 20/30D are much better.
King Sardon - 31 Dec 2006 22:42 GMT
>>I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>good friend went from a 10D to a 350D to a 20D and then last week went to a
>30D and has never regretted doing so, the 20/30D are much better.

Could you give examples of how the 30D would handle better? Would the
30D be significantly easier to operate in manual mode?

KS
Stephen M. Dunn - 31 Dec 2006 23:39 GMT
$Could you give examples of how the 30D would handle better? Would the
$30D be significantly easier to operate in manual mode?

  Yes, that's one area in which it's easier to operate.  The 30D has
a control dial on the back; the 400D does not.  To set aperture and
shutter speed separately (as in manual mode) on the 30D, each one has
its own dedicated dial:  the dial next to the shutter release button,
and the dial on the back.  The 400D shares the same dial for both;
to set one, you turn the dial on its own, while to set the other,
you have to hold down a button while turning the dial.

  The same sort of thing applies to setting exposure compensation
in other modes.  On either body, the main dial controls shutter speed
or aperture in shutter-priority or aperture-priority modes, and
program shift in program mode.  In any of these modes, you might want
to set exposure compensation.  Just as is the case in M, the 30D
has a second dial so you can easily do this; the 400D makes you
turn the main dial while holding a button.
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>>>----------------> http://www.stevedunn.ca/ <----------------<<<
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nick c - 03 Jan 2007 21:53 GMT
>>> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> KS

I think I can.....

I give a lot of weight to how a camera balances with various types of
lenses. For example, I have the 30D and the 1DMKII and have Canon's
16-35mm L, 24-105mm L, 70-200mm L, 70-300mm DO, and other lenses. These
lenses are heavy and they don't balance as well with the 30D as they do
with the 1DMKII. When I'm engrossed in repetitious free hand shooting,
camera shake increases in a much shorter period of time when using the
30D than when I'm using the 1DMKII. The IS feature helps but it's not a
cure-all and should not be relied upon as though it were a cure-all.

However, I've bought and now use the 10-22mm, 20-35mm, and the 28-105mm
(seven blade not the five blade) which balances so well on the 30D
camera that not having the IS feature in these lenses has presented no
problem involving camera shake. This kit has now become my incidental
walk-about short term travel outfit using a belly pouch to carry two of
the lenses with a couple of filters.

IMO, getting a light weight camera body then using pro heavy weight
lenses while engrossed in repetitious free hand shooting under altering
light conditions (existing light indoor/outdoor, sun/shade) is just
inviting trouble.
King Sardon - 03 Jan 2007 23:18 GMT
>>>> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>>>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>light conditions (existing light indoor/outdoor, sun/shade) is just
>inviting trouble.

I suppose you would not approve then when I mount my SMC Takumar
500mm/f4.5 on my Rebel XT.

(In case you are not familiar with this lens, it's 45 cm = 18" long
and it weighs in at 3,500 grams = 7.8 lb. Works great, though the
Rebel focus screen is not the best for this.)

KS
nick c - 04 Jan 2007 01:48 GMT
>>>>> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>>>>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> I suppose you would not approve then when I mount my SMC Takumar
> 500mm/f4.5 on my Rebel XT.

Me? Approve or disapprove of what equipment you use or how you choose to
use it? No way.

However, I would say I don't think that you would spend the day free
hand toting that setup around your neck (or off shoulder) and feel
comfortable doing that.

> (In case you are not familiar with this lens, it's 45 cm = 18" long
> and it weighs in at 3,500 grams = 7.8 lb. Works great, though the
> Rebel focus screen is not the best for this.)
>
> KS
Bill - 04 Jan 2007 09:34 GMT
> I suppose you would not approve then when I mount my SMC Takumar
> 500mm/f4.5 on my Rebel XT.

You don't mount that lense on the camera. You mount the camera on the
lense.

:-)

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Bill - 04 Jan 2007 09:33 GMT
> IMO, getting a light weight camera body then using pro heavy weight
> lenses while engrossed in repetitious free hand shooting under
> altering light conditions (existing light indoor/outdoor, sun/shade)
> is just inviting trouble.

I have to agree.

When I switched to digital, I figured a compact and light camera that
could shoot as good as the larger bodied models would be a good idea.
But after using it for a while and going back to a regular sized body,
how the camera handles is very important to me and other people who
have some of the larger lenses.

I'll never buy a small body camera again.

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Happy New Year!

Jim Redelfs - 01 Jan 2007 02:32 GMT
> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

The price difference at B&H, for body only, is $370.

I agree with Alan:  That would pay for a nice, upgraded lens.

I wouldn't give ANY "weight" to the 1.9 MP difference between them.

Unless your hands are quite large, I recommend the Rebel with an upgraded lens.
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           :)
JR

Canon EOS 20D

VC - 01 Jan 2007 03:47 GMT
Thank you all guys for the nice advises,
Today I went to local Fry's to feel the things. Maybe I do have large hands
but 30D appeared to be surprisingly comfortable and ergonomical. Rebel on
the other hand despite being much smaller and lighter has sharper corners
and does not sit that nice in my hands.
I did some research online and many users complain that more pixels in 400D
is actually a step down from the previous model 350D (which by the way is
also 8MP), the image quality is noticeably worse in low light due to
increased noise.

The dust removal  is definitely a plus for 400D. Maybe it is worth waiting a
couple of months till Canon releases a 30D equivalent with this feature.

>> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Unless your hands are quite large, I recommend the Rebel with an upgraded
> lens.
Arnor Baldvinsson - 01 Jan 2007 06:35 GMT
Hi VC,

> Today I went to local Fry's to feel the things. Maybe I do have large
> hands but 30D appeared to be surprisingly comfortable and ergonomical.
> Rebel on the other hand despite being much smaller and lighter has sharper
> corners and does not sit that nice in my hands.

I have used the 350D for about 18 months and shot just under 14,000 photos
with it and it fits very nicely in my hand.  I don't have big hands, but I'm
6'2" so I don't exactly have small hands either<g>  I've also picked up the
30D and it feels very good as well.  I'm not sure I could decide on the
feel.  I liked the softer feel of the 30D grip, but actually liked the
narrower finger space on the 400D as I found that it gave me an option to
push my fingers against the center of the body, which I realized I use for
stabilization when shooting on the 350D.  The 30D however felt more solid
and actually felt really nice.  So, I'm no help there, I'd say that both
felt very comfortable in my hands:)

> I did some research online and many users complain that more pixels in
> 400D is actually a step down from the previous model 350D (which by the
> way is also 8MP), the image quality is noticeably worse in low light due
> to increased noise.

I'd be careful about what "users" say, I'd rather try to find reviews done
by photographers who have actually compared the cameras and show test shots
for comparison.  Here is one that I was looking at yesterday:
http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=731  If you look at the
nighttime photos in the test at
http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=734 and they show that the
400 is very comparable to the 350, even a bit better at night.  My problem
with it is that the test photos I've seen seem to indicate that the photos
in 400 are not quite as sharp (taken with same lens, same conditions, same
subject, same settings) as the 350.

If you look at
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/digital_rebel_xti-review/index.shtml
then there is one other thing also to consider:  Battery life.  In that
article the Rebels are only rated for 360-400 shots pr. battery charge but
the 30D is rated for 750 shots.   My experience is that when shooting jpeg
you can easily shoot past 1000 with the 350D.

> The dust removal  is definitely a plus for 400D. Maybe it is worth waiting
> a couple of months till Canon releases a 30D equivalent with this feature.

The dust cleaning sounds very good.  Judging by an article I read yesterday
it also works!<g>

Signature

Arnor Baldvinsson
San Antonio, Texas

Jon B - 07 Jan 2007 14:16 GMT
> The dust removal  is definitely a plus for 400D. Maybe it is worth waiting a
> couple of months till Canon releases a 30D equivalent with this feature.

The anti-dust isn't fool proof, I've already had to do a sensor wipe and
then later had to use the specgrabber on mine and I've only had it just
over a month.
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RichA - 01 Jan 2007 06:52 GMT
> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

Bad comprison.  Unless you own Canon lenses, you should only compare
the
30D to Nikon's D80.  The Rebel/400 is FAR lower on the quality totem.
U-Know-Who - 01 Jan 2007 07:23 GMT
>> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
>
> Bad comprison.  Unless you own Canon lenses, you should only compare
> the
> 30D to Nikon's D80.  The Rebel/400 is FAR lower on the quality totem.

As opposed to what camera that you've bought?
RichA - 01 Jan 2007 10:08 GMT
> >> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> >> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> As opposed to what camera that you've bought?

I'm using an Olympus E-1 which has a body more like a D200.
Bates - 01 Jan 2007 18:49 GMT
> > I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> > Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?Bad comprison.  Unless you own Canon lenses, you should only compare
> the
> 30D to Nikon's D80.  The Rebel/400 is FAR lower on the quality totem.

No....the OP is looking at the two cameras and thus has presumably
decided that they want a Canon camera.  Now the OP is trying to decide
if the extra cost of the 30D is well warranted or not.

As for the Rebel XTi/400 being FAR lower on the quality totem, dpreview
actually compares the 400D to the D80 and the 400D comes out looking
quite good, especially given the cost savings.

Back to the original question, I too am torn between these two cameras.
I like the feel of the 30D in my hands  better than the 400D/Rebel
XTi.  I like the control layout of the 30D a little better as well.  I
like the price of the Rebel and the anti-dust feature (despite it being
still too early to know if it will have much effect in real world
situations).  I'm tempted to go with the 30D but do like the idea of
getting the 400D with a better lens rather than spend on the 30D.

Rumour has it that the 40D is coming out soon.  I've decided to wait
and see (give it a couple months).  Perhaps the 30D price will come
down somewhat (although when the 30D came out the 20D did not drop in
price very much).  

Bates....
VC - 02 Jan 2007 02:28 GMT
> Back to the original question, I too am torn between these two cameras.
> I like the feel of the 30D in my hands  better than the 400D/Rebel
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> situations).  I'm tempted to go with the 30D but do like the idea of
> getting the 400D with a better lens rather than spend on the 30D.

By the way Canon is holding a rebate deal for their 30D. If you buy a camera
and some advance lens the rebate would be $230. This almost compensates the
400D and 30D price difference.
Bates - 02 Jan 2007 14:11 GMT
> > Back to the original question, I too am torn between these two cameras.
> > I like the feel of the 30D in my hands  better than the 400D/Rebel
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and some advance lens the rebate would be $230. This almost compensates the
> 400D and 30D price difference.

Thanks for the tip....that may help make the choice a little easier....
Brutus - 01 Jan 2007 20:13 GMT
> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

I haven't read any comments about the deference between the viewfinders.
This could be a significant issue.

Having grown up during the film era I'm still less then impressed with the viewfinders in most of
the dslr cameras that I've played with....especially for focus conformation.
Michael Johnson, PE - 02 Jan 2007 17:43 GMT
> I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
> Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

If you plan to keep the camera body for a long period of time then the
30D would be the one to buy, IMO.  If this is just a stop gap purchase
then get the 400D and buy a good lens (full frame capable) with the
difference that you can use on future cameras.
Dr. Joel M. Hoffman - 07 Jan 2007 13:48 GMT
>I am torn between Canon 400D and Canno 30D
>Is the second option worth extra for nonprofessional use ?

I agonized over the same issue a month ago.  I decided that yes, the
30D was absolutely worth the extra money, primarily for two reasons:

(1) the camera feels much better in my (large) hands.

(2) I use the wheel on the back on the time, because I like to shoot
   in manual mode and I like to use exposure compensation.

Now that I have it, I also really appreciate the burst-shooting mode.

For a while I was worried about the lower resolution, but having used
the camera, I am extremely satisfied with the results.  Here's one
demonstration of what the camera can do:

         http://www.posted-online.com

(Look for the featured picture.)  Notice the detail in the bird, some
30 feet away.  ASA 500, f/8 1/500sec, 85mm cropped image with 17-85
USM IS.

-Joel
 
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