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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / December 2006All plastic gear won't be crap forever, it will evolve.
Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro digital gear, not to save money as is the case on entry-level DSLRs. I'm waiting for the next evolution. I dislike plastic-bodied cameras because I know they are built that way to save money. All top cameras are metal. Even Fuji finally wised up and realized that if they wanted to sell their bodies for $1700, they needed to switch to metal, hence, the new Fuji S5 with the Nikon D200 body. Nikon's new D80 body or the old D100 are as close to an "evolved" use of plastic as we've seen. However, this is not to say that some kind of plastic construction can't be used in a new series of pro lenses from Canon and Nikon. But it won't be the cruddy plastic now used in the cheap kit lenses like Canon's 18-55. or the body of the Rebel XTi. An example an "evolved" use of plastic comes from Pentax. They make a zoom lens eyepiece for their high-end spotting scopes that is housed in plastic body. However, it (at $700) is not a low-end or cost-cutting product. Its plastic is different, it is a matrix material and it was used solely to save weight because of the physical size of the glass elements in it. This is the kind of plastic implementation that will finally make it's way to pro gear, at some point I think. > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro > digital gear, not to save money as is the case on entry-level DSLRs. Perhaps the manufacturers no longer want their products thought of in terms of longevity. Today, it is "Get a new camera every 3 years." Metal bodies might send the wrong message. > Today, it is "Get a new camera every 3 years." Where the hell are you? The average expected shelf life for a pro dSLR body is 18-months. > Metal bodies might send the wrong message. Yeah, like keeping an obsolete body for more than 18-months. Rita >> Today, it is "Get a new camera every 3 years." > > Where the hell are you? The average expected shelf life for a pro dSLR > body > is 18-months. Wow, you're really going off the deep edge now. Greg  Signature"All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons >>> Today, it is "Get a new camera every 3 years." >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Wow, you're really going off the deep edge now. Kinda' like cell phones, eh? Replaced at the end of each contract term, and ending up on electronics dumps in China? Right alongside last year's DSLRS? Yesterday's brightly shining stars, and tomorrow's has-beens. If the prices keep dropping, someday they'll be disposable cameras--use em for a month and then chuck em. >Kinda' like cell phones, eh? > >Replaced at the end of each contract term, and ending up on electronics >dumps in China? > >Right alongside last year's DSLRS? Screw that; If I retire any of my DSLRs, I'll be using them for experimental purposes at the very least. Since I bought my 1Dmk2, I've been using my 10D as a backup with a different lens, or as a training SLR for my girlfriend. And - as usual - RichA is talking about things he knows nothing about - almost all the "plastic bodies" he keeps on ranting about are 'matrix' composites (typically glass fibre), rather than just pure plastic. > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro > digital gear, not to save money as is the case on entry-level DSLRs. Plastic is evolving and better types are coming. It will be interesting to see how they will be applied in consumer products. However, product longevity seems to be way down the list of design priorities these days and I'm afraid that plastics will more often be used to cut costs, than for any other reason. Most buyers are price sensitive. Pros are willing to spend more for ruggedness and reliability ... would they abandon metal for plastic? I think so, if it was clear that the plastics were applied for reasons other than economic ones. >> Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >> where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they abandon metal for plastic? I think so, if it was clear that the > plastics were applied for reasons other than economic ones. Lots of us older photographers have negative associations when it comes to plastic lenses. They feel cheap, and I for one have no confidence in such a lens being able to withstand severe conditions. I don't think that war correspondents carry them. > Lots of us older photographers have negative associations when it comes to > plastic lenses. They feel cheap, and I for one have no confidence in such > a lens being able to withstand severe conditions. I don't think that war > correspondents carry them. The "feel" can be psychological. I agree that plastic has a bad "feel" and is often associated with cheapness. However, many folks continue to follow new technology and would be willing to try a plastic lens if it was tested and recommended by respected authorities (I would). Also, I'd be willing to buy a plastic this or that on those occasions where price was very important. Not everything that I own has to outlast me. Some folks still demand tube amplifiers. Early transistor hi-fi amplifiers were not so great. Technology evolves. >> Lots of us older photographers have negative associations when it comes >> to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Some folks still demand tube amplifiers. Early transistor hi-fi > amplifiers were not so great. Technology evolves. I agree, the feel is purely psychological. I started out in 35mm photography in 1973, with Spotmatic IIa and I've acquired 18 SMC Takumar lenses--all beautifully crafted, all with smooth-as-silk focusing, and all with some degree of heft to them. There is a tactile sense of gratification when using that equipment, and whenever I pick up a Canon Rebel at the store, I just shake my head and wonder how anybody can take such stuff seriously. Yet I've seen some excellent photos from such cameras, so I know that the problem (if one can call it that) is in my own mind. I'm taking a serious look at the Nikon D40, (with one of those dreaded ZOOM LENSES) and will probably take the plunge. I am reluctant only because of this crazy sense that I will be "abandoning" my good Pentax stuff, even though I have no intention of dumping any of it. I've always been an early adopter of technology. I just don't get that warm, fuzzy feeling from plastic. > I agree, the feel is purely psychological. I started out in 35mm > photography in 1973, with Spotmatic IIa and I've acquired 18 SMC Takumar [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cameras, so I know that the problem (if one can call it that) is in my own > mind. Yes, Rebels are consumer grade cameras that can take high-quality shots. They will not hold up as well as professional gear, but the price is good. I think the "prosumer" label is appropriate for cameras of this type. > I'm taking a serious look at the Nikon D40, (with one of those dreaded > ZOOM LENSES) and will probably take the plunge. I am reluctant only > because of this crazy sense that I will be "abandoning" my good Pentax > stuff, even though I have no intention of dumping any of it. Nikons are darned good. I'm not one to taut brands. If I were starting over, I could easily become a Nikonian. Now, I'm invested in Canon lenses and other accessories. > I've always been an early adopter of technology. I just don't get that > warm, fuzzy feeling from plastic. Most don't. Plastic gets a bad rap because it often has been misused by designers and manufacturers. At the same time, it is awesome in certain applications; e.g. thermoplastic insulation for wires. Will there come a time when it will beat stainless steel, magesium and so on for camera and lens bodies? I think so ... I really do. It will be called a composite material (or somesuch) by the marketing department. > Some folks still demand tube amplifiers. Early transistor hi-fi amplifiers > were not so great. Technology evolves. *Real* guitar players play through tubes. >> Some folks still demand tube amplifiers. Early transistor hi-fi >> amplifiers >> were not so great. Technology evolves. > > *Real* guitar players play through tubes. Simply mark me down as one who knows that vacuum tubes are over the hill in all audio applications. > "Randall Ainsworth" <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote in message > news:151220061501350594%rag@nospam.techline.com... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Simply mark me down as one who knows that vacuum tubes are over the hill in > all audio applications. Maybe. Unfortunately for some applications other technologies still have a long way to go before they'll be higher up the hill than the descending tube amplifier. When it comes to guitar amplifiers, tubes may have started descending (I don't think they have) but nothing else is even halfway up yet. Maybe in another 10 years or so something else will come close. Sander > > Lots of us older photographers have negative associations when it comes to > > plastic lenses. They feel cheap, and I for one have no confidence in such [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Some folks still demand tube amplifiers. Early transistor hi-fi amplifiers > were not so great. Technology evolves. Part of using a camera involves comfort, physical and mental, if the psychology plays any part in it. The feel of slackness or uneveness, courseness when focusing, etc, is...disconcerting. Plastic often imparts this kind of feel. It's like (to use an audio analogy) using a ball-bearing loaded potentiometer versus some cheap metal-covered plastic knob with no smooth resistence when you turn it. Actually plastic will be crap forever. Since it takes thousands of years for it to decompose if it breaks down forever. Just think in 2000 years some archeologist will be digging through the ruins of New York city, he stumbles upon a plastic cup with Taco Bell stamped on the side. He/She/It jumps for joy until he/she/it realizes he/she/it has no idea what it was used for. But, at least it is in like new condition. :) ljc >> Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >> where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they abandon metal for plastic? I think so, if it was clear that the > plastics were applied for reasons other than economic ones. >Actually plastic will be crap forever. Since it takes thousands of years for >it to decompose if it breaks down forever. Just think in 2000 years some >archeologist will be digging through the ruins of New York city, he stumbles >upon a plastic cup with Taco Bell stamped on the side. He/She/It jumps for >joy until he/she/it realizes he/she/it has no idea what it was used for. >But, at least it is in like new condition. :) Can you imagine the eBay advert? "Ancient drinking vessel, embossed 'Taco Bell' $0.99 start, no reserve" Yes, eBay will still exist. eBay will outlive the cockroach. ;-) It would probably sell for $10,000 and end up in a Casino. An Indian one since by then the US will be theirs again and the country will be the new Las Vegas, the whole country. LJC >>Actually plastic will be crap forever. Since it takes thousands of years >>for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > ;-) >It would probably sell for $10,000 and end up in a Casino. An Indian one >since by then the US will be theirs again Hmmmmm ... >and the country will be the new Las Vegas, the whole country. A spine-chilling prospect. > >and the country will be the new Las Vegas, the whole country. > > A spine-chilling prospect. Full of Japanese Wayne Newton impersonators. SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. "Me who is part taoist and part Christian". And, lets not forget Cher. She is made out of the same durable plastic as barbie dolls. She will still be around and still on her farewell tour. ;) LJC >> >and the country will be the new Las Vegas, the whole country. >> >> A spine-chilling prospect. > > Full of Japanese Wayne Newton impersonators. > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro > digital gear, not to save money as is the case on entry-level DSLRs. > > I'm waiting for the next evolution. Why? Planning to finally evolve then? > > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is > > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why? Planning to finally evolve then? Are any of us really as evovled as the technology we use? > Are any of us really as evovled as the technology we use? Well, it should be self-evident that WE have created the technology. As to the case of any given individual, they can be quite clueless. > > Are any of us really as evovled as the technology we use? > > Well, it should be self-evident that WE have created the technology. As to > the case of any given individual, they can be quite clueless. We also created weapons which ideally would never be used for anything but defense. > We also created weapons which ideally would never be used for anything > but defense. Not relevant. Some more than others. LJC >> > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >> > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Are any of us really as evovled as the technology we use? >> > Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >> > where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Are any of us really as evovled as the technology we use? Some of us are. You seem to be stuck at Cro-Magnon level. >>>> Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >>>> where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Some of us are. You seem to be stuck at Cro-Magnon level. Could be worse. How much does the Geico caveman make? He gets paid in shiny rocks and shells, the proper currency for his time. If a store won't take his shells and rocks he beats them with his club. ljc >>>>> Plastic has one use outside of cost-cutting: Weight-savings. This is >>>>> where and why (if it happens) that plastic will find its way into pro [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Could be worse. How much does the Geico caveman make? > He gets paid in shiny rocks and shells, the proper currency for his time. If > a store won't take his shells and rocks he beats them with his club. In that respect he is not much different than my wife! |
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