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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / December 2006

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Macro Flash

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Bruce - 29 Nov 2006 22:14 GMT
I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
work on my D70 I am restricted to Auto or Fully Manual settings. The
question is are there any problems using this flash a short distances from
the subject i.e. 2 feet or so the GN at 200 ASA is 42 on full power down to
11 at 1/16 power. I have vague memories of reciprocal failure, does this
apply.

Thanks Bruce
Tony Polson - 29 Nov 2006 23:26 GMT
>I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
>Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>11 at 1/16 power. I have vague memories of reciprocal failure, does this
>apply.

Reciprocity failure was only a potential problem with film, if very
short flash durations (~ 1/10,000 sec) resulted from using high power
flash close to the subject.  It doesn't seem to happen with digital.

If the 1/16 power setting is too high for the short distance and the
aperture in use, the shot will be over-exposed.  You can put neutral
density gel filters over the flash head to reduce the power.  A cotton
handkerchief folded double or quadruple will also reduce the light.**

A ring flash might be a good investment.  Nikon make the SB29 but
there are cheaper generic alternatives.  I use a cheap generic ring
flash for some macro work, either on its own or together with a
hammerhead flash gun or studio flash.

**Rather than asking questions, often the best thing to do is just try
it yourself.  With instant review (isn't digital wonderful?) you can
find the answers to these questions yourself in half the time it takes
someone to reply on here.  Armed with that knowledge, you can then
answer other people's questions rather than just asking them.  ;-)
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 30 Nov 2006 00:03 GMT
> A ring flash might be a good investment.  Nikon make the SB29 but
> there are cheaper generic alternatives.  I use a cheap generic ring
> flash for some macro work, either on its own or together with a
> hammerhead flash gun or studio flash.

A waste of time and it won't work with Nikons iTTL format.  He would be best
suited to get the R1C1.  Of course, he can use what he has now in full
manual, which is great for macro work.  A cheap alternative for him is to
buy an SC-28 cable and remote his diffused flash for better results.

Rita
Floyd L. Davidson - 29 Nov 2006 23:43 GMT
>I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
>Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>11 at 1/16 power. I have vague memories of reciprocal failure, does this
>apply.

Gee, why ask?  It can't be too hard to set up and try it, eh?
It isn't like taking a few shots is going to cost much...

For whatever it is worth, I've used a variety of older flash
units for macro work, often a lot closer than 2 feet.  A flash
that can be reduced to 1/64 power is nice, but even then there
can be problems in some situations.

It also happens that I use an old Sunpak 8r ringlight (the same
as was sold by Lester Dine, so there are lots of them available
at very low prices on eBay), which cannot be reduced to a low
enough power sometimes.  What I've done with it is cut out a
ring of paper to put around the flash to obstruct the light.  If
only a little is needed it can be white paper and will also
diffuse the light.  If it needs to be a lot it can be done with
thicker and/or darker paper.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson            <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@apaflo.com

Alan Browne - 30 Nov 2006 00:34 GMT
> I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
> Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 11 at 1/16 power. I have vague memories of reciprocal failure, does this
> apply.

As Floyd said:

1- try it, manual, lowest power and Auto.
I don't know your flash, but if you can "tell it" that the aperture is
larger than it actually is, that might lower the flash output somewhat
in Auto mode.

2- dampen it (paper, watch for color casts).  Instead of paper cut out
the translucent plastic top from a large can of coffee.  Cut out a ring
to the dimensions of the flash.  (Just make sure you don't overlap an
edge near the lens such that the lens sees lit plastic).

3- reciprocity failure is a film issue, not a flash exp./dist. issue.

Cheers,
Alan

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cjcampbell - 30 Nov 2006 03:10 GMT
> I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
> Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 11 at 1/16 power. I have vague memories of reciprocal failure, does this
> apply.

Really, I would recommend that you chuck the SB20 and get the R1
close-up kit. Don't bother with the much more expensive R1C1 kit; all
that gives you is a controller which is of minimal use on the D70 and
no use at all on anything better. Your results will be much better than
any kludge you manage to put together with the SB20.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 30 Nov 2006 09:55 GMT
> Really, I would recommend that you chuck the SB20 and get the R1
> close-up kit. Don't bother with the much more expensive R1C1 kit; all
> that gives you is a controller which is of minimal use on the D70 and
> no use at all on anything better. Your results will be much better
> than any kludge you manage to put together with the SB20.

For basic macro work the R1 will suffice on the D70, but if he want to
expand his use of Nikon's CLS to other avenues than macro he would be better
off paying a few dollars more and getting the SU800 that is included with
the R1C1.  This will give him far better control over multiple SB800/600s
than the built-in Commander mode of the D70.  Of course, if he ever upgrades
to a D2x he'll need the SU800 since there is no built-in flash on it.  If I
remember correctly, you got the R1C1 so don't knock it if you haven't used
it for anything other than macro

Rita
cjcampbell - 30 Nov 2006 16:26 GMT
Rita ? Berkowitz wrote:

> > Really, I would recommend that you chuck the SB20 and get the R1
> > close-up kit. Don't bother with the much more expensive R1C1 kit; all
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> remember correctly, you got the R1C1 so don't knock it if you haven't used
> it for anything other than macro

Actually, I got the R1. The SB-800 flash will do everything the SU-800
controller will.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 30 Nov 2006 23:30 GMT
>> For basic macro work the R1 will suffice on the D70, but if he want
>> to expand his use of Nikon's CLS to other avenues than macro he
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Actually, I got the R1. The SB-800 flash will do everything the SU-800
> controller will.

Having several SB800s I agree that it does everything the SU800 does plus
one thing you forgot to mention.  In commander mode the SB800 has a very
nasty pre-flash sequence, even with the flash to fire turned off that can
make your subject close their eyes for portraiture work or ruin the moment
for candid shots.  The SU800's IR eliminates this.  Did I mention it is
small and lighter than the SB800 as well?

Rita
cjcampbell - 01 Dec 2006 18:02 GMT
Rita ? Berkowitz wrote:

> >> For basic macro work the R1 will suffice on the D70, but if he want
> >> to expand his use of Nikon's CLS to other avenues than macro he
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> for candid shots.  The SU800's IR eliminates this.  Did I mention it is
> small and lighter than the SB800 as well?

Well, calling it nasty might be a little extreme. I have not found it
to be a problem, at least. I think most people who will close their
eyes during the preflash are the sort who will close their eyes even
when there is no flash at all. I have difficulty envisioning the use of
the R1 close-up kit for candid shots. No matter how you use it, it is
likely to attract a great deal of attention. Besides being just plain
weird looking, placing the lights around the room is not my idea of
'candid.'
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 01 Dec 2006 22:38 GMT
>> Having several SB800s I agree that it does everything the SU800 does
>> plus one thing you forgot to mention.  In commander mode the SB800
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> plain weird looking, placing the lights around the room is not my
> idea of 'candid.'

Nasty is the word for it.  It's the same intensity of being blasted by the
red eye reducer of a cheap P&S.  I probably should have stated that *IF* you
are going to use the Nikon CLS to its fullest it is much more desirable to
use an SU800 instead of an SB800 as commander for the obvious reasons.  The
CLS system includes the use of the SB800/600 and SB-R200s speedlights.  So,
yes you can break them away from the R1's mounting ring and "get creative"
with them.  Of course, finding what works best for your situation is always
the key to getting the most from CLS.  My opinion is the SU800 is a much
better choice for the Commander if you are using multiple 800s and 600s.

Rita
tomm42 - 30 Nov 2006 15:31 GMT
On Nov 29, 10:10 pm, "cjcampbell" <christophercampb...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> > I have bought a Nikon 60 mm Micro Nikkor but the only flash I have is a
> > Nikon SB20 & the off camera extension lead from my old SLR. As TTL won't
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> no use at all on anything better. Your results will be much better than
> any kludge you manage to put together with the SB20.

The problem with just using the R1 is that the commander modes in both
the D70s and the D200 can't compensate for high mag macro, both only
have 1 stop compensation, and for 1:1 you need 2. Luckily on manual in
commander mode you can go down to 1/32 power, if you use both R1 units
you might need that with the 60 micro at 1:1. I use one unit with the
105 micro and use 1/16 at f 13 for 1:1, twice the distance. The SB200
(or is it SU200??) with the R1C1 I understand has more auto
compensation than the cameras do. Digital is so easy to test, I'm fine
with manual settings. Others may freak out when you say manual for
them, get the full R1C1 even with the D200.

Tom
 
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