Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / November 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Plastic cameras and the dust issue (Nikon's findings)

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
RichA - 27 Nov 2006 05:02 GMT
According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
camera.  The camera is then internally-cleaned to get rid of any
particles left over from the machining process.  Nikon contends that
much of the dust issues in cameras can originate from this left over
material from the manufacturing process rather than from exposing the
camera briefly when changing lenses.  Why?  Because when it is drilled
and machined, polycarbonate develops terrific static charges.  These
charges (unlike a metal body) cause filings, etc, to remain in the body
even with post-fabrication cleaning.  Further, for dust control during
use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
prevent static from this source.
Hebee Jeebes - 27 Nov 2006 05:42 GMT
Hmmm. Makes sense. But I don't know how that would make me feel. On one hand
apparently all of these years Nikon had very poor quality control if they
were sending out cameras with dirty insides. But, apparently it is important
enough now to try and clean them out before sending out. Hmmm. I think I
will go over an overall lack of quality control. Had they been doing a good
job from the start they would have known that drilling and such would leave
little bits in the camera. Only an idiot would think otherwise. Which means
they just didn't care until it started costing them money it lost customers
or warranty repairs, etc.

R

> According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
> mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
> prevent static from this source.
Ken Lucke - 27 Nov 2006 05:47 GMT
> Hmmm. Makes sense. But I don't know how that would make me feel. On one hand
> apparently all of these years Nikon had very poor quality control if they
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
> > prevent static from this source.

Cue entry of RichA into the thread......
Al Monte - 29 Nov 2006 01:51 GMT
>> Hmmm. Makes sense. But I don't know how that would make me feel. On one
>> hand
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Cue entry of RichA into the thread......

To call RichA a spamming a.shole is to do a disservice to all of the other
spamming a.sholes on the 'net.
Joan - 27 Nov 2006 10:18 GMT
After a few months I noticed 2 spots on my D50.  I went back and
checked my photos and found the spots were from the start.  They're
still there and they are still lonely after quite a few lens changes.

Signature

Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

: According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
: mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
: prevent static from this source.
Celcius - 27 Nov 2006 12:55 GMT
> According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
> mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
> prevent static from this source.

Here we go again ................
I guess there's no life after plastics.... polycarbonate or whatever...
Rich, you seem to spend enormous effort and time researching the same
trivia....
During that time, I've enjoyed 3 great plastic cameras and actually take
photos / souvenirs ;-)
Marcel
RichA - 27 Nov 2006 17:23 GMT
> > According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
> > mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Rich, you seem to spend enormous effort and time researching the same
> trivia....

Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.
jeremy - 27 Nov 2006 17:52 GMT
>> Here we go again ................
>> I guess there's no life after plastics.... polycarbonate or whatever...
>> Rich, you seem to spend enormous effort and time researching the same
>> trivia....

I got into photography at a time when plastic was not thought of in terms of
having much quality.  Plastic items were "cheap," like toys.  Plastic was
substituted for metal because it made items cheaper to manufacture, not
because it was structurally superior.  And the use of plastic generally did
little to reduce the prices.  Consumers paid the same and they got less.

When one grows up with that view of plastic, it is no wonder that we remain
opposed to plastic items throughout our entire lifetimes.  And, yes, I
realize that polycarbonate has advantages over metal in some areas.  No
matter.  I'll hang on to my classic metal-bodies cameras and lenses for a
few more decades.  No offense to those that appreciate the quality of their
plastic lens barrels.  I just can't bring myself to get overly excited over
plastic.  I am fortunate in that I've accumulated just about everything I
could want while it was still readily available.  The supply of excellent
metal stuff is shrinking, and there is very little coming into the pipeline
as new.

Every time I walk into a store and pick up a plastic film camera, I just
shake my head and put it down.  It must be a conditioned response.  It is a
pity that so many younger photographers have never had occasion to work with
classic legacy equipment--the kind that could stand falling off of a chair
and not cracking.

http://www.photo.net/photo/old-slrs
Thomas T. Veldhouse - 27 Nov 2006 18:35 GMT
> Every time I walk into a store and pick up a plastic film camera, I just
> shake my head and put it down.  It must be a conditioned response.  It is a
> pity that so many younger photographers have never had occasion to work with
> classic legacy equipment--the kind that could stand falling off of a chair
> and not cracking.

I had my D70 fall out of a Ford Explorer with no issue.  Broke the lens hood,
the camera did not have a mark and the 18-70 lens that was on it at the time
survived unscathed as well.  The PolyCarbonate bodies are pretty solid these
days ... at least, the D70 body is.

Signature

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68  00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0

Bill - 27 Nov 2006 19:40 GMT
> pity that so many younger photographers have never had occasion to
> work with classic legacy equipment--the kind that could stand
> falling off of a chair and not cracking.

But who really cares if the case cracks or dents? With any camera, be
it film or digital, I'm MUCH more concerned with the inner components
not becoming damaged from the impact, and metal cases don't seem to
help.

That's why I don't drop my cameras.

:-)
George K - 27 Nov 2006 22:09 GMT
If the crack, chip or hole in the shutter curtin allowed light on the
film or sensor I would think you would be concerned. I would also be
concerned if a break in the plastic cause any of the camera's lcds to
malfunction. I always clean my cameras lenses before first use just ot
get rid of any dust from any source and any fingerprints. I also use
this time to carefully look over the camera bodies and lenses for
anyother problems.

> > pity that so many younger photographers have never had occasion to
> > work with classic legacy equipment--the kind that could stand
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> :-)
Bill - 28 Nov 2006 18:21 GMT
> If the crack, chip or hole in the shutter curtin allowed light on
> the
> film or sensor I would think you would be concerned.

Of course, which is why I said, "more concerned with the inner
components" than the case.

Obviously if you have a crack, chip or hole in the shutter curtains,
you have a seriously damaged camera and the case is the last thing one
would be worried about.
Tom Ross - 27 Nov 2006 21:34 GMT
>> > According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
>> > mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
>It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.

Are you saying that you merely regurgitate stuff you trip across? Are
you saying you do not spend any time to determine the veracity of your
posts? Says ... and explains ... quite a lot.

I would be interested in your source for this Plastic, Dust, Nikon
thread. I suspect you are leaving out something crucial.

I have a hard time believing that test-firing the D80 is a new
manufacturing step for Nikon. I would think that is and has always
been a set in the overall QC process. Y'know, to make sure the darned
thing works before it goes into the box.

I also have a hard time believing that Nikon is using drilled and
machined polycarbonate for its camera bodies when it would be much
easier to mold. I have an even harder time believing that Nikon is
having dust-related problems with static "cling" and not having
problems with static discharge.

TR
RichA - 27 Nov 2006 22:54 GMT
> >> > According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
> >> > mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> I would be interested in your source for this Plastic, Dust, Nikon
> thread. I suspect you are leaving out something crucial.

Came from Nikon at Photokina.  I don't know if they issued a press
release but think about it;  You are about the only mfg. with no dust
control system so you say that the dust comes from within the camera
body and if you cycle  the shutter and clean afterwards, the dust is
eliminated.  Kind of obviates the need in the perspective buyer's mind
for a dust control system like Olympus, Canon, Sony, etc.

> I have a hard time believing that test-firing the D80 is a new
> manufacturing step for Nikon. I would think that is and has always
> been a set in the overall QC process. Y'know, to make sure the darned
> thing works before it goes into the box.

It's tough to afford this kind QC step when the camera sells for under
$1000.00.

> I also have a hard time believing that Nikon is using drilled and
> machined polycarbonate for its camera bodies when it would be much
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TR

The static is only generated in the fabrication, not in the use.
Except for the sensor, that is.
I think Nikon has a good point.  Mass-produces products like that are
bound to have "tailings" in them.  It's tough to get rid of it all, and
expensive.
-Rich
Tom Ross - 28 Nov 2006 05:40 GMT
>> >> > According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
>> >> > mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>Came from Nikon at Photokina.  I don't know if they issued a press
>release but think about it;  

Were you at Photokina? Did YOU speak to someone at Nikon about this?
If the answer to either of these questions is 'No,' then please
identify your source.

A press release would be nice. Especially one that confirms your claim
that Nikon has modified the D80 by moving the moire filter.

>> I have a hard time believing that test-firing the D80 is a new
>> manufacturing step for Nikon. I would think that is and has always
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>It's tough to afford this kind QC step when the camera sells for under
>$1000.00.

Nonsense. Besides, if there is any truth to your post, Nikon is doing
it now.

>> I also have a hard time believing that Nikon is using drilled and
>> machined polycarbonate for its camera bodies when it would be much
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>The static is only generated in the fabrication, not in the use.

I was talking about static generated during manufacture.

>Except for the sensor, that is.

What?

>I think Nikon has a good point.  Mass-produces products like that are
>bound to have "tailings" in them.  It's tough to get rid of it all, and
>expensive.
>-Rich

Now you're just making up stuff. Large, attached tailings would/should
be removed in the molding process, and an ultrasonic cleaner should be
able to remove any lose material still clinging to the part.

Or are you saying that Nikon's manufacturing process is lax?

TR
Brion K. Lienhart - 28 Nov 2006 07:19 GMT
>>>>>>According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
>>>>>>mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Or are you saying that Nikon's manufacturing process is lax?

This just in...
Generalissimo Francisco Franco: Still Dead.
RichA: Still an Idiot.
RichA - 28 Nov 2006 18:01 GMT
> This just in...
> Generalissimo Francisco Franco: Still Dead.
> RichA: Still an Idiot.

Why raise you head out of the sand for that?
RichA - 28 Nov 2006 18:00 GMT
> >> >> > According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
> >> >> > mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> If the answer to either of these questions is 'No,' then please
> identify your source.

A British photo mag report on Photokina.  They had statements from all
major mfgs on the state of their business, plans, etc.

> A press release would be nice. Especially one that confirms your claim
> that Nikon has modified the D80 by moving the moire filter.

I haven't seen a press release.  They probably wouldn't do one for such
an "esoteric" change in design.  More megapixels is what drives press
releases.

> >> I have a hard time believing that test-firing the D80 is a new
> >> manufacturing step for Nikon. I would think that is and has always
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Nonsense. Besides, if there is any truth to your post, Nikon is doing
> it now.

So pulling a body of a production line to test and clean it is
costless?  In what mass manufacturing environment is that the case?

> >> I also have a hard time believing that Nikon is using drilled and
> >> machined polycarbonate for its camera bodies when it would be much
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> What?

Reason they moved the moire filter, the sensor generates static when it
is working.

> >I think Nikon has a good point.  Mass-produces products like that are
> >bound to have "tailings" in them.  It's tough to get rid of it all, and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Or are you saying that Nikon's manufacturing process is lax?

I've seen residual debris and dust in $100,000 machined aluminum
aerospace products, it's not major reflection on QC unless it directly
impacts the function of the product.  

> TR
Charles Schuler - 27 Nov 2006 21:43 GMT
> Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
> It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.

Time spent posting about a "plastic vendetta" doesn't count?

{The EMTs were valiantly trying to save his life but, to his horror, he saw
plastic tubing over his shoulder and screamed  "No, no I'd rather die!"}
RichA - 27 Nov 2006 22:56 GMT
> > Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
> > It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.
>
> Time spent posting about a "plastic vendetta" doesn't count?

The poster said "research" not posting.  But you are right, if the
camera companies decided to eliminate plastic to the greatest extent
possible from their bodies, I'd cheer them.
Ken Lucke - 28 Nov 2006 00:11 GMT
> > Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
> > It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> {The EMTs were valiantly trying to save his life but, to his horror, he saw
> plastic tubing over his shoulder and screamed  "No, no I'd rather die!"}

"And those paddles!  The casings of them are made of... ::gasp,
groan!:: PLASTIC!!!!!  They might break if you run over them with the
ambulance... Get them away from MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!"
RichA - 28 Nov 2006 23:06 GMT
> > > Trivia?  Not to some.  I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
> > > It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> groan!:: PLASTIC!!!!!  They might break if you run over them with the
> ambulance... Get them away from MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!"

Wanted:  Good home for dead plastic camera.  Couldn't take a four foot
fall to concrete.
Make offer:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nikon-D70-Body-Digital-Camera-Not-working-parts_W0QQitemZ2300
54663015QQihZ013QQcategoryZ31388QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Charles Schuler - 28 Nov 2006 23:28 GMT
> Wanted:  Good home for dead plastic camera.  Couldn't take a four foot
> fall to concrete.

OK, it was repaired and worked another 6 months.  So it is a plastic issue?
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.