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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / December 2006Sigma 14 megapixel P&S to cost $2000+
1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company that makes a high priced non-DSLR. > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the > only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company > that makes a high priced non-DSLR. Where did you get this information from. The camera is not even the prototype stage yet, I doubt Sigma has priced it yet. > > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Where did you get this information from. The camera is not even the > prototype stage yet, I doubt Sigma has priced it yet. Brit photo magazine. They had a picture of it. >> > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >> > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Brit photo magazine. They had a picture of it. The photo is a mock-up, not even a prototype. Sigma has not announced a price yet, how the photo magazine managed to come up with one is comical. >>>>1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >>>>touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The photo is a mock-up, not even a prototype. Sigma has not announced a > price yet, how the photo magazine managed to come up with one is comical. Well, I've held one, used on, taken pix on it, viewed them. Good for a mock-up. Don't judge it until you have handled it. It's far more robust than the GR-D, which I destroyed with a single knock (purple fuzzy images ever after, had to go back). At photokina the prototypes were working, but I was not allowed to save a file to card. The viewing screen was very peculiar in colour under mixed light, but the reviewed image (auto WBd) from ISO 1600 was not as disastrous as you might think. Zooming in worked. It was, to give you an example, about as bad as the pre-production Pentax K10D which I used in October. David >>>>>1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >>>>>touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > David I'm not judging it since I haven't been able to handle one. But they are still are mock-ups and I am sure they will be far more improved by the time they are produced. My point was that a photo magazine set a price when there isn't even a pre-production model yet. I was hoping to see the camera at the Photo Expo held in NYC last month but we only got to see the SD14, not the DP-1. >> Well, I've held one, used on, taken pix on it, viewed them. Good for a >> mock-up. Don't judge it until you have handled it. It's far more robust [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >at the Photo Expo held in NYC last month but we only got to see the SD14, >not the DP-1. Do you deny the account above, then? Anyway, when designing a new model, the price point is the FIRST thing that gets decided. >>> Well, I've held one, used on, taken pix on it, viewed them. Good for a >>> mock-up. Don't judge it until you have handled it. It's far more robust [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Anyway, when designing a new model, the price point is the FIRST thing > that gets decided. I don't deny David's account at all. I hold his opinions in high regard and he is a pro, I'm just a hack. I've spoken directly to Sigma USA, there is no price set on the DP-1. > I don't deny David's account at all. I hold his opinions in high regard and > he is a pro, I'm just a hack. I've spoken directly to Sigma USA, there is > no price set on the DP-1. at the photo plus expo last month, sigma said it would be around $800. >1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the >only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company >that makes a high priced non-DSLR. This pre-production beauty could be serious competition for the Ricoh GD-R ... if it weren't for the Foveon sensor, a slow f/4 lens, no hotshoe and no place to attach a Galileo viewfinder. Maybe by the time Sigma actually releases the beast it will have a faster lens and at least a way to attach an optical viewfinder. Although at this estimated price, the Epson R-D1 might be the better bargain. Not that I trust RichA's price.... Rich, the only price I could find for this camera is on Sigma's German website. www.sigma-foto.de/cms/front_content.php?idcat=115 The price quoted there was "steht noch nicht fest," which loosely translates as "unknown." TR > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the > only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company > that makes a high priced non-DSLR. If it looks like a Leica, then I suggest glasses. BTW it's only 4.5 megapixels. > > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If it looks like a Leica, then I suggest glasses. BTW it's only 4.5 > megapixels. Sigma says 14 meg, (3 colours x 4.5) and the magazines are saying resolution like a 9 to 10 meg conventional DSLR. > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the > only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company > that makes a high priced non-DSLR. It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. What is the point of 14MP, other than a way of selling cameras? >> 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is >> being touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica >> isn't the only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is >> another company that makes a high priced non-DSLR. > It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? > Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. > What is the point of 14MP, other than a way of selling cameras? It is not 14 Mpx (and it is probably not 1100 pounds). The Sigma DP1 has 2652 x 1768 pixels (i.e. 4.7 Mpx). Here is a link to dpreview's coverage of it: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06092604sigmadp1.asp (Since it uses a Foveon sensor, it will have 3 photosites at each pixel location, so it will have 14 million photosites, but does not make it a 14 Mpx camera.)  Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is >>>being touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Here is a link to dpreview's coverage of it: > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06092604sigmadp1.asp That's unique, it has a 1.7x crop dSLR sensor and a fixed wide angle lens. I guess it'll be fairly inexpensive? Actually this might be the best use for a foveon sensor; small manageable file sizes but super sharp with great dynamic range. I like it. > (Since it uses a Foveon sensor, it will have 3 photosites at each > pixel location, so it will have 14 million photosites, but does > not make it a 14 Mpx camera.) SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com >> The Sigma DP1 has 2652 x 1768 pixels (i.e. 4.7 Mpx). >> Here is a link to dpreview's coverage of it: >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06092604sigmadp1.asp > That's unique, it has a 1.7x crop dSLR sensor and a fixed wide angle > lens. I guess it'll be fairly inexpensive? Actually this might be the > best use for a foveon sensor; small manageable file sizes but super > sharp with great dynamic range. I like it. Me too, if they just have the sense to fit it with a cold shoe for an accessory viewfinder. I would hate having to use the LCD for all my composing (and not having to use the LCD will probably improve battery time as well). AFAIK, the camera is still being developed, so there is still hope for this design change. Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SNIP > That's unique, it has a 1.7x crop dSLR sensor and a fixed wide angle > lens. I guess it'll be fairly inexpensive? Actually this might be > the best use for a foveon sensor; small manageable file sizes The Raw file needs to store 14 million 12-bit numbers (i.e. 21 Megabytes) for each 4.7 MP image. That's not really small, even with some lossless compression.. > but super sharp with great dynamic range. I like it. I have no idea what the Dynamic Range will be. The previous Foveon sensor was not exactly known for its high ISO performance, so the DR was apparently not very impressive or else it would have tolerated more amplification. SignatureBart >> That's unique, it has a 1.7x crop dSLR sensor and a fixed wide angle >> lens. I guess it'll be fairly inexpensive? Actually this might be the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Megabytes) for each 4.7 MP image. That's not really small, even with > some lossless compression.. Nice compact jpegs though. >> but super sharp with great dynamic range. I like it. > > I have no idea what the Dynamic Range will be. The previous Foveon > sensor was not exactly known for its high ISO performance, so the DR was > apparently not very impressive or else it would have tolerated more > amplification. But much better than other P&S. I'd get one for my mom if the price was right. >>> That's unique, it has a 1.7x crop dSLR sensor and a fixed wide >>> angle lens. I guess it'll be fairly inexpensive? Actually this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nice compact jpegs though. Unlikely. The 'snap-to-grid' characteristic of any sensor lacking an anti-aliasing filter prohibits good compression. SignatureBart >> 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >> touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the >> only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company >> that makes a high priced non-DSLR. > > It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? As someone else said it's not really 14MP, it's 4.5MP. Greg Signature"All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons > >> 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > >> touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Greg The Foveon sensor uses three layers, red, green and blue filtered, each apparently 4.5 megapixels in size. Regular Bayer cameras use one layer, with 2 pixels being green, one red and one blue. So, a 10 megapixel Bayer camera is 10 megapixels. According to some sources, given the resolution of the last Sigma, this new one should be the same as a 9-10 megapixel Bayer sensored camera and it should have ultralow ISO noise. We'll see. > -- > "All my time I spent in heaven > Revelries of dance and wine > Waking to the sound of laughter > Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons > It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? > Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. > What is the point of 14MP, other than a way of selling cameras? 4.65 Mpix, actually. Don't be a victim of the Foveon/Sigma myth. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > > It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? > > Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Cheers, > Alan The actual number matters no more than the true resolving power of the system. Which is why "10 megapixel" Bayer-equipped cameras resolve about 30% less than they would without the filter. >>>It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? >>>Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Which is why "10 megapixel" Bayer-equipped cameras resolve about 30% > less than they would without the filter. Even if that were true, then a 10 Mpix camera would have 7 Mpix v. the 4.65 Mpix of the Foveon. > >>>It is really getting ridiculous. A 14 MP P&S? > >>>Most people will Print 4X6, 5X7 with an occasional 8X10. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Even if that were true, then a 10 Mpix camera would have 7 Mpix v. the > 4.65 Mpix of the Foveon. Not if the Foveon's actual resolution is the equivalent of a 9-10 meg Bayer camera. People have said you can't rely on even a large magazine reproduction to judge a camera's image quality, but some say you can. The one I saw argues that the Foveon appears to do what it claims to do, that is deliver high resolution. We'll just have to wait and see if it ends up having problems like the Leica or the old SD9 and 10. > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the > only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company > that makes a high priced non-DSLR. Anyone who thinks this is a $2000 camera is crazy. Can't believe comment on it say it is a competitor to the M8, even if the M8 has problems. No interchangeable lenses, no viewfinder (no pro or advanced amateur is going to hold a camera at arms lenth to shoot. f4 lens pulleeez that is a killer right there. The Ricoh (GR1?) is expensive enough at $700, this looks like even less of a camera. OK it has an APS Foveon sensor, but the old Foveon really crapped out on high ISO and any variation in exposure. Needs a finder needs interchangeable lenses (Leica mount would be great as the Epson RD1) Needs at least an f2.8 lens, f2 would be preferable, Sigma makes a 28 f1.8 Needs a hot shoe (colds fine). Ad these features and maybe you can start talking serious bucks. As it is $700 max and they won't sell many. Tom tomm42 schreef: > > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Needs at least an f2.8 lens, f2 would be preferable, Sigma makes a 28 > f1.8 How big is this lens. Would it fit? (of course not; large sensor=large lens: better make it a bit slower) > Needs a hot shoe (colds fine). > Ad these features and maybe you can start talking serious bucks. As it > is $700 max and they won't sell many. > > Tom > tomm42 schreef: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > How big is this lens. Would it fit? > (of course not; large sensor=large lens: better make it a bit slower) At 16mm, f/4 is plenty fast there's so much DOF & light gathering ability at that wide and angle. The Epson rangefinder (sorta similar) was $3,000 so that's probably why they're guessing this will be $2,000 but if you compare to a D40 minus so many features this thing ought to be around $400 or less, and at that price it sounds fine. >>Needs a hot shoe (colds fine). >>Ad these features and maybe you can start talking serious bucks. As it >>is $700 max and they won't sell many. >> >>Tom SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com > > tomm42 schreef: > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > but if you compare to a D40 minus so many features this thing ought to > be around $400 or less, and at that price it sounds fine. Some people value build quality over features, some of which they'll never use or understand how to use correctly. Hence Leica's $5000 rangefinder. >1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being >touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the >only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company >that makes a high priced non-DSLR. I might pay up to 300 GBP for a sub 5Mpix wide(ish) P&S, but it would have to be low noise and have a built-in optical viewfinder. SignatureIan G8ILZ > 1100 British pounds.With a fixed equivalent 28mm lens. This is being > touted as compact a P&S sub for a DSLR. Looks like Leica isn't the > only company making a high priced non DSLR. Epson is another company > that makes a high priced non-DSLR. Stigma's director of marketing is P.T. Barnum. |
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