I am a bit confused about camera metering.
For example....when you are taking a picture of something that is backlit by
a setting sun....and you meter off the sky above the sun (taken from a Bryan
Peterson book).
Is there a book out there that explains what you need to meter off of in
specific situations? Or is there a general rule of thumb for metering..some
helpful hints as it were?
I am reading Bryan Peterson's book "Understand Exposure" and he has given a
number of pictures as examples where he meters off something besides the
subject to give a desired effect.....but I just dont understand the concept
of metering off something.
Yes, I am a amateur...what can I say?
Any help is appreciated
Paul Furman - 10 Nov 2006 20:38 GMT
> I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Yes, I am a amateur...what can I say?
What equipment are you using?
See the thread "D200 Color Matrix Metering at night" for some
interesting discussion, from the 6th of this month. People talk about
the various metering modes, matrix, center weighted & spot. Or google
for "zone system" for more general exposure understanding. Ultimately
that is going to a matter of personal tast and intent though.
With digital, what you really want to do is expose as brightly as
possible (without blowing highlights) then darken in post processing to
get the minimum of noise and most shadow detail. Be careful about
blowing out individual colors though, like in the sky where where it can
go aqua. Use the mode that shows blinking highlights and shoot raw,
generally you can recover from a little bit of blinking. Use the
histogram to be more precise especially if you have an RGB histogram.

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TSKO - 10 Nov 2006 20:44 GMT
>> I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> recover from a little bit of blinking. Use the histogram to be more
> precise especially if you have an RGB histogram.
I am using a Nikon D50
I asked the question before I read on in my book.......towards the end of
Bryans book....he talks about metering. Its just a concept I am not overlly
comfortable yet...I guess practice practice practice
Paul Furman - 10 Nov 2006 21:30 GMT
> "Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote
>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> I am using a Nikon D50
OK so spot meter.
I've got a D200 so the controls might be a bit different.
> I asked the question before I read on in my book.......towards the end of
> Bryans book....he talks about metering. Its just a concept I am not overlly
> comfortable yet...I guess practice practice practice
Yeah, I've just begun playing with the spot meter. With practice, it
should be possible to get the desired results without checking the
histogram and I think that is the value. I am accustomed to using EC+/-
with 'normal' matrix metering but that's actually not so predictable. So
now I'm using the spot meter, AE-lock button (set a bit different than
default) and I dial in EC+2 or so on white areas to get that little bit
of blinking highlights. Of course there are times you want to blow the
highlights even more because the shadow area is important or to remove
detail in the highlights. In that case I'll meter with EC+0 on something
more neutral in the shadows. The other way to go is just put it in
manual and look at the meter reading in the viewfinder. That's handy
because you don't have to reset it for every frame if doing multiple
shots in the same lighting and no tricky fingerwork with the EC button.
But I never shot with a fully manual camera so it'd take a long time to
get familiar with shutter & f/stop options to where I really have any
clue where to start so I prefer aperture priority mode with EC.

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Jeremy Nixon - 10 Nov 2006 22:58 GMT
> I asked the question before I read on in my book.......towards the end of
> Bryans book....he talks about metering. Its just a concept I am not overlly
> comfortable yet...I guess practice practice practice
The book you want is "The Camera" by Ansel Adams.

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Toby - 11 Nov 2006 03:54 GMT
>>> I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Bryans book....he talks about metering. Its just a concept I am not
> overlly comfortable yet...I guess practice practice practice
Basically what you are trying to do is to squeeze the huge dynamic range of
light that the eye can process into the limited dynamic range of the camera
and make the tonal relationships appear somewhat as they do to your eye. It
is an impossible task, so you have to choose the best compromise. As Paul
says, the first rule is not to "blow out" highlights by overexposing that
the eye can deal with. You don't want a face or generally even a white shirt
to lack tonal gradation, as this appears "wrong" since the eye can see tonal
gradation in a white shirt, so the trick is to expose so that just the very
brightest parts of the shirt at at 100%--pure white. OTOH if you have a
light bulb in the shot your eye will accept that being blown out, as
normally you don't look directly into a light bulb, or see tonal gradation
there--same with the sun.
But think about shooting a scene in a city where part of a light-colored
building is in full sun with a street in deep shade. If you expose for the
light-colored building, so that you have detail in that your street turns
unnaturally dark (according to what your eye can see). If you open up so
that the shadow detail in the street is a bit better you lose detail in the
building--it turns into a white monolith with just a bit of the darker
detail showing. What to do?
You will find in this situation that it is desirable to keep the highlight
detail, even if it means losing detail in the shadows. Both are ugly, but
the white monolith is uglier, and seems more unnatural.
There are various ways of dealing with the limited dynamic range of photos.
Film people use the Zone system, with selective exposure and development
variation to increase or decrease contrast, or masks post-facto to do the
same thing.
With digital there are various ways to expand detail in the shadows, but
there is really no way to get lost highlight detail back. It is virtually
always better to lose detail in the darkest shadows than to lose detail in
the brightest non-specular highlights.
Your example of metering a backlit sunset is one of those cases where you
are going to lose one way or the other. Even though your eye can see both
rich color in the sky and detail in the ground you won't get both on film or
in a digital file. Most people choose to expose to have the rich colors of
the sky and just let the foreground turn black, as a pale, washed out sunset
sky is not going to win any awards. Another possibility is to take two
identical shots (tripod!)--one exposed for the sky and one for the
foreground and combine them digitally. You can also use a graduated neutral
density filter to darken the sky in relation to the foreground, but there is
no way that without some tricks you are going to get it all in one shot the
way the eye sees it.
Digital cameras such as the D50 have a number of built in algorithms to
produce the best possible compromise exposure for various situations such as
the ones described above, and generally matrix metering works pretty well,
but it isn't perfect. But the great advantage of digital is that you have an
immediate preview and can (hopefully) reshoot the scene after you get some
visual feedback from the LCD monitor. This eliminates much of the need for
fancy tricks with film (such as spot-metering all the tonal values in the
scene and calculating exposure from that information), where you only know
if the exposure is decent long after the possibility to reshoot is past.
Toby
Paul Mitchum - 10 Nov 2006 21:10 GMT
> I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Any help is appreciated
Metering off something means you use spot metering to get a reading from
an object. Most modern cameras have a spot meter function. Camera light
meters show you what they think is the best mid-tone for whatever
they're metering. A spot meter takes a very small portion of the image
and uses it as the mid-tone. So you point the spot (in the center of the
viewfinder) at something that's a mid-tone.
Thus: The best example of something to meter off of is a mid-tone gray
card, available at any camera store. The gray card is designed to be a
perfect mid-tone, so your light meter will give you a perfect mid-tone
(well, ideally). You get a gray card, you put it near the subject of
your picture, you meter off it, and then you're (basically) set for that
lighting situation. Shoot away.
Metering off the area above the sun is like pretending there's a gray
card in the sky. You assume that the area above the sun is the mid-tone
you want. (I haven't tried that, so I don't know how well it works.)
Metering off other objects works the same way. Meter off a green leaf as
stand-in for a decent mid-tone. Or meter off gray asphalt. Hopefully you
get the idea.
After that idea gets implanted in your brain, you can move on to
metering off lighter or darker objects, and then compensating with EV
settings or by just doing it in your head and changing the shutter speed
and/or aperture. :-)
HTH.
J. Clarke - 10 Nov 2006 21:54 GMT
>I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Any help is appreciated
The simple answer to your question is to meter off of whatever you want to
be properly exposed. There are more complicated ones, but that should be
the starting point of your thinking.
Sheldon - 12 Nov 2006 02:44 GMT
>I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Any help is appreciated
IMHO there are basically two types of metering: The first is incident
metering, like using the dome on a handheld light meter. This is the
closest thing to metering off a gray card. The equivalent in most digital
cameras is called Matrix metering. It looks at the entire frame and tries
to do its best, and often does.
The second is spot metering, where you set the camera to spot meter and
point the center of the viewfinder at what you want metered.. This may
cause problems with the objects around the central figure, but works well
for portraits and such.
Since there are no film and processing costs, try bracketing your exposures
and experiment a lot. After awhile you'll start to see what works and what
doesn't. With enough practice you should be able to nail most exposures on
the first try.
Jim - 13 Nov 2006 04:08 GMT
> I am a bit confused about camera metering.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Any help is appreciated
I have not read this book but I am suspect when some one says "meter on
somehting other than the subject". There are no simple rules of thumb
here. You need to understand the physics of light, how exposure
meters function and the dynamic range of the recording media. You need
to be able to look at the scene and make decisions about the light and
the vision you want to create. I would suggest starting with an
older book which doesnt' talk about cameras at all, but about light,
film and exposure. Personally, I think that is an easier place to
start as it is less complex. Once you add the complexity of digital
sensors, it becomes more difficult to understand because of the
additional variables. Everything you learn about film and exposure is
applicable to the digital world. Personally, I read exposure two ways,
one is to measure the reflected light off the subject and compensate to
shift the exposure to the tail or head of the curve as I see fit, or to
measure the incident light using a external meter and use this as guide
mixed with my experience. An example. A photograph of a snow man on a
suburban yard with a foot of fresh snow on the ground. Shoot this in
automode and the system will assume you are shooting an average scene
which exposure meters assume is 18% gray. So, your white fresh
lookign snow comes out dingy. Fresh snow reflects nearly 90% of the
light hitting it, unlike average subjects which only reflect 18% of the
light. So what do I do? If I am using the meter in the camera (a
relected light meter) I meter off the subject (the snowman) and open up
two stops... and probably bracket one stop either way. Or if I have a
grey card handy, I position it on the snowman, get the meter reading
and set it manually. Or, if I have my trusty incident light meter, I
use that a the snowman position and then set the camera manually.
Note that in all cases I measuring the light at the subject. I will
also factor in the time of day, color of the sky (clear, partly
cloudy), relected light (trees (woods/forest) or other objects which
may reflect a "colored" light. Photography is an art.
Jim <jen....not....home..remvdots...@....yahoo