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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / November 2006D200 Color Matrix Metering at night
D200 Color Matrix Metering at night still gets dark, not middle gray. <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom> Exif data says "Multi-segment" metering mode, I believe it was the default middle setting, not spot meter or center weighted. Aperture priority, f/16 on a tripod: exposures started at 8 seconds and lasted up to 30 seconds as the sun set but each frame still got progressively darker and I don't think this was entirely due to avoiding blown highlights in the lit up windows and full moon but perhaps? If you scroll down to the full set: <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom/ful l-set&PG=2> ... some of them like that one don't have any intense highlights to protect and the sky could have gone plenty brighter... although I suppose the sky on that one is almost identical to this one: <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom> ... still I would think the matrix metering should be looking at the entire frame, not just the sky. The sky is nowhere near blowing out in the later dark one and 2/3 of the frame is underexposed. Is this normal? In this case I kind of don't mind how they look as a set but I was expecting more even exposures. Alright, one more thing to sort of answer my own questions: <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom/equ al-exposure> That's three manually equalized in exposure and the sky is indeed blown in the middle one but then the darker night sky is richer in the last one. Just interesting how the metering progrssivly made the darker night scenes darker exposures very consistently.  SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com Light coming in through the viewfinder at the back perhaps? > D200 Color Matrix Metering at night still gets dark, not middle gray. > <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Just interesting how the metering progrssivly made the darker night scenes > darker exposures very consistently. > Alright, one more thing to sort of answer my own questions: > <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom/equ al-exposure> > That's three manually equalized in exposure and the sky is indeed blown > in the middle one but then the darker night sky is richer in the last > one. Just interesting how the metering progrssivly made the darker night > scenes darker exposures very consistently. What you're getting is pretty much as I'd expect from matrix metering. If you're expecting some middle gray, or something more like the results in your "equalized exposure" section, go with center-weighted metering perhaps. After all, that's not what the scene looked like, and the matrix meter is trying desperately to get what it looks like, not any middle gray. But in those situations I tend to ignore the meter altogether, as it's not really much help; I'll do a test shot starting from either the meter reading or whatever I think is right, check it on the LCD, and adjust from there. Then, in most cases, do a multiple exposure sequence and a merge to HDR in Photoshop, but that's another thing. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com >>Alright, one more thing to sort of answer my own questions: >><http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/misc-photos/2006-11-04-sunroom/equ al-exposure> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > After all, that's not what the scene looked like, and the matrix meter is > trying desperately to get what it looks like, not any middle gray. Really? It's not what I thought but yes, the evidence is right there. > But in those situations I tend to ignore the meter altogether, as it's not > really much help; I'll do a test shot starting from either the meter reading > or whatever I think is right, check it on the LCD, and adjust from there. I shot for about 20 minutes steadily as the sun set and conditions changed, I would have had to chimp the histogram for each 30 second exposure... but yes your right, center weighted or spot would have done what I expected, I just did not think matrix would make a night scene dark, I thought it tried to get the whole thing an average middle tone. How does the camera know it's night time? > Then, in most cases, do a multiple exposure sequence and a merge to HDR in > Photoshop, but that's another thing. SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com > I shot for about 20 minutes steadily as the sun set and conditions > changed, I would have had to chimp the histogram for each 30 second > exposure... Yeah, that's pretty much what you'd have to do. Or else figure out how to make the meter do what you're expecting, which I suspect would involve center-weighted rather than matrix, judging from what you've indicated you want. You can short-cut the chimping by making the test shots artificially short, too -- set the ISO for 800 and the aperture for f/2.8 (or whatever wide open is for the lens you're using), and count how many stops that is different from the settings you're using for the real shots. Then you can make a test shot much more quickly, and adjust your final exposure by the right amount. So a test shot could just be a second or whatever, for a final "real" exposure of 30 seconds. > but yes your right, center weighted or spot would have done > what I expected, I just did not think matrix would make a night scene > dark, I thought it tried to get the whole thing an average middle tone. > How does the camera know it's night time? What it does is measure various portions of the frame, and compare that with some kind of predetermined idea of what scenes giving those readings are like, and sets the exposure accordingly. I bet your shot with the moon looks like a sunset to the meter, for example, and indeed it appears to have been exposed as you would expose a sunset. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com >>...I just did not think matrix would make a night scene >>dark, I thought it tried to get the whole thing an average middle tone. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > moon looks like a sunset to the meter, for example, and indeed it appears > to have been exposed as you would expose a sunset. Hmm, interesting. Maybe I will do more experimenting with spot metering, I assumed the matrix wouldn't try to outsmart me, I'll admit it normally works fine but it's frustrating to have complex subjective descisions made for me by the camera. Anyone know off-hand the best way to set AE-lock on a D200? Last time I looked for the D70 it was not a simple thing with AF-lock in the mix... a few different ways to set up the buttons. I'll want to point at something gray and lock the meter, then point at the focus point, lock that & recompose... not simple... I do sometimes more the active focus point, though it's a bit of a hassle. It would be interesting to have a better clue how the camera is making these descisions but sounds too complex and ambiguous to really get a handle on. I normally chimp the histogram with auto exposure and use EC from there. Ocassionally I'll then set that up in manual for a consistent look. I suppose manual isn't that bad if you use spot meter & the two dials while watching the meter reading in the viewfinder, a lot could be done on the fly without chimping with more intentional control of the exposure. SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com > Hmm, interesting. Maybe I will do more experimenting with spot metering, > I assumed the matrix wouldn't try to outsmart me, I'll admit it normally > works fine but it's frustrating to have complex subjective descisions > made for me by the camera. It's pretty smart, but it can't be as smart as you. :) Center-weighted is definitely more predictable, of course, but the matrix metering does a good job most of the time. > Anyone know off-hand the best way to set AE-lock on a D200? Set for manual exposure. > I suppose manual isn't that bad if you use spot meter & the two dials > while watching the meter reading in the viewfinder, a lot could be done > on the fly without chimping with more intentional control of the exposure. Night exposure is all about experience, trial and error, and experimentation. After you do it a bit, you'll be able to "eyeball" it a lot better. I have my "func" button set to flip to center-weighted metering, but for tripod setups I don't usually bother with it, or really use the meter at all. If there's enough light for the meter to get a reading, I sometimes use that as my starting point, but it's rarely right on where I want to be for that kind of shot. That's just so far out of the range of "normal" and into "really difficult" that you can't expect it to get it right, I think. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com > >>...I just did not think matrix would make a night scene > >>dark, I thought it tried to get the whole thing an average middle tone. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > that & recompose... not simple... I do sometimes more the active focus > point, though it's a bit of a hassle. It's possible to set it up so that the AEL button locks exposure only (not AF); you can set it up so that it either locks it only while it's pressed, or stays locked until you press again (and some other combinations). But if you're going to be spot metering, try manual. This is what I use most of the time, and it's very convenient. As an aside, I find the most convenient way to meter is spot and manual mode: I spot meter from the point which I want to be the brightest non-burned point, and set expose around 2 stops more than the meter reading (experiment, as it depends also on your raw converter and its settings, or jpeg settings if you're using jpegs). As for the matrix meter, I find it works OK most of the time (actually, in not too extreme situations it usually picks the same exposure I'd pick with spotmetering), but in more complicated situations it's hard to know what it's doing, so difficult to know if you have to compensate for it. It seems to be guessing what you are trying to photograph from brightness measurements at various points, so perhaps if the brightness is very low it decides it's a night scene etc. I suppose it's easy for it to decide if something is a light source and should be ignored (eg if something is brighter than a white piece of paper in full sunlight, it's obviously a light source etc). Or if the overall light level is low, perhaps with isolated bright spots, it exposes as if it is a night street scene. And so on. But anyway, with experience, spot metering or centreweighted is much more predictable, so if I have time, that's what I use. For night exposures, though, the main problem I have is that the meters just don't function reliably because the light is too low. So I use the technique Jeremy described (wide open, ISO 3200 for a test exposure, look at result, adjust until satisfied, calculate correct exposure at desired ISO). As always, experimentation is the best way to find out what works! >>Anyone know off-hand the best way to set AE-lock on a D200? Last time I >>looked for the D70 it was not a simple thing with AF-lock in the mix... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > pressed, or stays locked until you press again (and some other > combinations). "AE Lock Hold" is the menu setting that lets me tap the AE-AF button once to lock exposure only. I can see in the viewfinder "AE-L" until I tap it again. Then half-shutter-press to lock focus (unless the continuous servo mode is activated on the front left side switch [C, S, M]). > As an aside, I find the most convenient way to meter is spot and manual > mode: I spot meter from the point which I want to be the brightest > non-burned point, and set expose around 2 stops more than the meter > reading (experiment, as it depends also on your raw converter and its > settings, or jpeg settings if you're using jpegs). I think I can get used to spot metering with around EC +2 on whites, it's just a moment's more work with a tap on the AE lock in that setting. > ...Or if the overall light level is > low, perhaps with isolated bright spots, it exposes as if it is a night > street scene. And so on... Eeek! Well, I can always flip it to matrix metering if I'm doing quick grabs and no time to think about things. > For night exposures, though, the main problem I have is that the meters > just don't function reliably because the light is too low. So I use the > technique Jeremy described (wide open, ISO 3200 for a test exposure, > look at result, adjust until satisfied, calculate correct exposure at > desired ISO). As always, experimentation is the best way to find out > what works! Thanks for both of your thoughts on this. SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 Bay Natives http://www.baynatives.com > Eeek! Well, I can always flip it to matrix metering if I'm doing quick > grabs and no time to think about things. My working method : Matrix metering is faster than any other method I can do, for example spotmetering several points and working out the exposure. So I use matrix metering most of the time, and use the histogram to correct on it. If I have time to work out the exposure, I sometimes use the spot metering. For sports for example you are pressed for time taking the pictures, but you can prepare and work out the exposure before the actual 'event'. But as said most time I use matrix metering, not because it beads me with it's intelligence, but it sure beats me in time. ben >Anyone know off-hand the best way to set AE-lock on a D200? By not using the lock button. I tried it on my D200. It was confusing as to when it was going to stay on or turn itself off. So taking the advice here I don't use it, but get the speed and F-stop in P mode, then switch to M mode. Then after the panorama I switch back to P (and hope to not forget). Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms). |
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