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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / November 2006Best bugget dSLR for sports photography?
I'm planning on buying a new SLR primely for sport photography, moving subjects like cars etc. so I'm looking for fast and accurate focus camera. since i think of buying cheaper Sigma lens, which body do you think is best for the job: Canon 350D, 400D, Sony A100, Olympus E500, E300, Nikon D70, D50, maybe Penatx K10D? thanx for advice > I'm planning on buying a new SLR primely for sport > photography, moving subjects like cars etc. so I'm looking for fast [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanx for advice Used Canon 20D. 5 fps.  SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >> I'm planning on buying a new SLR primely for sport >> photography, moving subjects like cars etc. so I'm looking for fast [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Used Canon 20D. > 5 fps. I own one and that is a good recommendation. > I'm planning on buying a new SLR primely for sport > photography, moving subjects like cars etc. so I'm looking for fast > and accurate focus camera. since i think of buying cheaper Sigma lens, > which body do you think is best for the job: Canon 350D, 400D, Sony > A100, Olympus E500, E300, Nikon D70, D50, maybe Penatx K10D? Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a lens that is fast to auto-focus; this means it has a large maximum aperture and a fast focusing motor. >Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If >you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a >lens that is fast to auto-focus; this means it has a large maximum >aperture and a fast focusing motor. i was thinking of Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG, and that's pretty much the top i could afford. do you have any particular lens to suggest? > i was thinking of Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG, and that's pretty much the > top i could afford. do you have any particular lens to suggest? Not as such as I was just reacting to the "a cheaper Sigma lens" in general, in case you were planning to buy a $100 lens for a $1000 body :) I have no experience on that Sigma model but the specs do look nice. If you can afford the HSM version, it'll likely focus faster as well as being easier to focus manually when so desired. >>Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If >>you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > i was thinking of Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG, and that's pretty much the > top i could afford. do you have any particular lens to suggest? With that lens I'd consider the A100 and K10D carefully. If you are shooting 200 handheld you want some kind of image stabilization and the A100 and K10D give it to you in the body. As to which works better otherwise, I don't have any first-hand experience with either. > With that lens I'd consider the A100 and K10D carefully. If you are > shooting 200 handheld you want some kind of image stabilization and the A100 > and K10D give it to you in the body. IS does help a lot, and of you can get it, do so! However, shooting moving racecars (which tend to move fast) at speeds below 1/f seconds might well not happen, in which case IS is pointless. Note that you also can use monopods for a few steps of stabilisation, they'll also carry the weight for you on extended shooting sessions. -Wolfgang PS: Don't forget the new f/4 IS 70-200mm lens from Canon, which may or may not be in the price range for the OP. > >>Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If > >>you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > shooting 200 handheld you want some kind of image stabilization and the A100 > and K10D give it to you in the body. Neither of those systems allow for panning with AS/SR. That wouldn't be useful for sports. The in-lens stabilisation of Nikon and Canon support panning. Mike >> >>Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If >> >>you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Mike Are you sure the K10D does not support panning? Where did you get this information? Not all Nikon and Canon IS/VR lenses support panning! >>Maybe you should reconsider your plan to buy a cheaper Sigma lens. If >>you want fast autofocus you need not only a fast body but also a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > i was thinking of Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG, and that's pretty much the > top i could afford. do you have any particular lens to suggest? Lose a stop of light, but go for the Canon 70-200 f4L (non IS). Faster AF, better optics. It has USM, and the Sigma lacks their version HSM, which, even at it's best, isn't as fast to focus. And the Canon is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper to boot. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm >> i was thinking of Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG, and that's pretty much >> the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > version HSM, which, even at it's best, isn't as fast to focus. And > the Canon is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper to boot. I was about to say the same thing - the Canon is a superb lense, among the best you buy in that focal range. It's the only thing I really miss from my old Canon gear. The autofocus is definitely very fast. And the smaller aperture isn't a big deal really since it sounds like the user will be shooting sports in the daylight. But even if it's overcast, a notch or two of ISO will usually be enough to compensate. I never had any problems with shutter speed using that lense. >I was about to say the same thing - the Canon is a superb lense What is a "lense"? > What is a "lense"? lense, v. Obs. [OE. hlæ´nsian, f. hlæ´ne lean; cf. clæ´nsian to cleanse.] a trans. To make lean; to macerate. b intr. To become lean. As in "lense me". >>I was about to say the same thing - the Canon is a superb lense > > What is a "lense"? Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. You're probably aware of it but are bored or have nothing useful to contribute. Some dictionaries confirm the spelling as acceptable, others do not. Just as all of these are correct depending on where you live or how you learned to spell them: learnt and learned colour and color rumour and rumor honour and honor theatre and theater aluminium and aluminum Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to join two wires together with a heated iron. I hear people pronounce it "sod/er" over here, but I learned to pronounce it from my british father as the same as a cup "holder", change the first letter and you have a word that rhymes called solder. You wouldn't call it a cup "hod/er", unless maybe your mother and sister are the same person. Now, do you have something useful to say about the topic at hand? :-) >Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. Or just plain wronge. ;-) >You're probably aware of it >but are bored or have nothing useful to contribute. I am surprised that anyone thought that my rhetorical question needed any reply. > >Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I am surprised that anyone thought that my rhetorical question needed > any reply. Why do people feel the need to ask rhetorical questions? Scott >>> Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. >> Or just plain wrong. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> any reply. > Why do people feel the need to ask rhetorical questions? I dunno. It's just the way it is, isn't it? IAE, a reasonable diversion into language. Now, I used to be superstitious, but when I learned it was bad luck, I stopped. Signaturejohn mcwilliams Even if you learned to speak English perfectly, whom would you speak it to? >>>> Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. >>> Or just plain wrong. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > IAE, a reasonable diversion into language. Now, I used to be > superstitious, but when I learned it was bad luck, I stopped. What will you do when you find out that you are anal retentive? >>>Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Scott I'll bite: Rhetorical questions are statements, not actual questions. They are a manipulative maneuver intended to thwart any further interaction by declaring a summary victory in an argument. This is similar to yelling during an argument as a form of bullying. Even though the technique doesn't really work it is habitual rather than needful and defines a persons manner of speech... or was your question also rhetorical? :-) -Guy > Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce > the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to join [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have a word that rhymes called solder. You wouldn't call it a cup > "hod/er", unless maybe your mother and sister are the same person. Finally someone else who hears the US "soder" which sounds to my ear as somebody engaged in an unmentionable sexual act. The other US pronounciation which grates is "booee" instead of "boi" for buoy. I and most normal engish speakers don't say "booeeant." Otherwise I agree let's just stick to the topic. >> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce the >> word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to join two [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > most normal engish speakers don't say "booeeant." > Otherwise I agree let's just stick to the topic. Sorry... can't resist: Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". Don't be holding a hot drink when s/he replies. -- Jeff R. >>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you >>> pronounce the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". > Don't be holding a hot drink when s/he replies. Language and pronunciation is forever in flux. Improper uses quickly become "proper" in due time when enough folks agree... The one that kills me is the stubborn use of "axed" for "asked"...spoken almost exclusively by African-Americans...even those with serious post-grad education. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > The one that kills me is the stubborn use of "axed" for "asked"...spoken > almost exclusively by African-Americans...even those with serious > post-grad education. LOL, agreed. Another one, that bothers me is the use of "finning", based on the southern slang, fixin'. "I'm fixin' on buying a new camera" "I'm finnin' to buy a new camera". Fish have fins. How are you finning yourself and why? On the other hand, an African American will correctly pronounce their relative as "aunt", with a heavy accent. (We) Caucasians in the Midwest will say ant. >> The one that kills me is the stubborn use of "axed" for >> "asked"...spoken almost exclusively by African-Americans...even those [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > as "aunt", with a heavy accent. (We) Caucasians in the Midwest will > say ant. Maybe your aunt lives on some land where she grows crops or livestock ... hence it would be an "ant farm" ??? mikey >>>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you >>>> pronounce the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". >> Don't be holding a hot drink when s/he replies. Archie who?? So, how does "a" Californian pronounce it? This one would say "ark ee pell egg o". How wrong is that? > Language and pronunciation is forever in flux. Improper uses quickly become > "proper" in due time when enough folks agree... > ><< Snipped bits out >> Don't those "folks" need to be able to read and write? Does this mean that the possessive form of it is now "it's"? Sob. Signaturejohn mcwilliams > Mark" wrote: > >> Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". > >> Don't be holding a hot drink when s/he replies. > > Archie who?? So, how does "a" Californian pronounce it? This one would > say "ark ee pell egg o". How wrong is that? Where are you putting the stress? If you were to say 'ark EE pell egg o', I would be surprised. Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United We went up twice with Tilly and Brush >> Mark" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Cheers, > Luke That's the only way I've ever heard it pronounced, and I've lived in California since 1957... SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm >>> Mark" wrote: >>>>> Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > That's the only way I've ever heard it pronounced, and I've lived in > California since 1957... I think I really say: "ark uh pell egg o", accent on first and third syllables. So, I guess that's not close enough to the original Greek for the scholars among us. Signaturejohn mcwilliams >>>> Mark" wrote: >>>>>> Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > syllables. So, I guess that's not close enough to the original Greek for > the scholars among us. Well, it's more like "ark IH PELL egg o," but what the heck. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm > >> Mark" wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Where are you putting the stress? If you were to say 'ark EE pell egg > > o', I would be surprised. > That's the only way I've ever heard it pronounced, and I've lived in > California since 1957... Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to use the word, speak of 'ark ee PELL e goes'. Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United We went up twice with Tilly and Brush >>>> Mark" wrote: >>>>>> Ask a Californian to pronounce "archipelago". [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to use the > word, speak of 'ark ee PELL e goes'. No fair! We were told there'd be no plural forms on this test.....Now, how many such can you name in additional to the original Greek one? Signaturejohn mcwilliams > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to use the > > word, speak of 'ark ee PELL e goes'. > > No fair! We were told there'd be no plural forms on this test.....Now, > how many such can you name in additional to the original Greek one? I live on (in?) one. Scott > > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to > use the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Scott Mahalo for that. But the quiz is for young Luke. Signaturejohn mcwilliams > > > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to > > use the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mahalo for that. But the quiz is for young Luke. Yeah but I am still not sure if we live on one or in one? And ours is really big, something like 1500 miles long. Scott >>> > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to >>> use the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yeah but I am still not sure if we live on one or in one? And ours is > really big, something like 1500 miles long. And growing hourly! john mcw > > > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to > > use the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mahalo for that. But the quiz is for young Luke. Ooh thanks. I'm young. Er, does that mean I'm not allowed to watch the footy down the pub tonight? Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United We went up twice with Tilly and Brush > > Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to use the > > word, speak of 'ark ee PELL e goes'. > > No fair! We were told there'd be no plural forms on this test.....Now, > how many such can you name in additional to the original Greek one? Falklands, Balearics, Frisian Islands, Hebrides, Orkneys, Shetlands, Seychelles, Indonesia and Hawaii. Micronesia, Polynesia, Anaesthesia, Diptheria, Diarrhoea... Is that enough? Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United We went up twice with Tilly and Brush >>> Okay. I'm surprised. I, at those rare times that I feel moved to use the >>> word, speak of 'ark ee PELL e goes'. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Is that enough? Yes, my son; you have done well. You may stay at the Local until one half hour before closing time. Mum will pick you up in the 'ghini. SignatureDarth > Yes, my son; you have done well. You may stay at the Local until one > half hour before closing time. Mum will pick you up in the 'ghini. I stayed at the local a little longer than that last night... Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United Southend United 1-0 Manchester United >>>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you >>>> pronounce the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Language and pronunciation is forever in flux. Can he say that on a family news group? :-) >Improper uses quickly become >"proper" in due time when enough folks agree.. In other NG's txt spk has bcum comon. no captil i or punctuation its ok for kids wot use cel fones all tim but nt so god 4 d rest of us. pls xcuse if u cant rd it. Most of us over 25 can't make head nor tail of it., >The one that kills me is the stubborn use of "axed" for "asked"...spoken >almost exclusively by African-Americans...even those with serious post-grad >education. See "Airplane" where they use sub tittles for a pair of black Americans talking "street jive" In the UK there are many spoken dialects. Few written though I think Kippling wrote in dialect somewhat in between making exceedingly good cakes. Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > In the UK there are many spoken dialects. Few written though I think > Kippling wrote in dialect somewhat in between making exceedingly good > cakes. Indeed, and the only place in the UK where people don't speak in strange dialects is Oxford. It took me half a day to figure out what's going on as I had previosly spent 3 weeks around London... >>>>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you >>>>> pronounce the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > good > cakes. "Do you like Kipling?" "I don't know. I've never Kippled". "Butcher, I'll take a pound of kidleys". "Don't you mean 'kidneys'?" "Diddle I say so?" SignatureFrank ess >> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce >> the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to join [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> have a word that rhymes called solder. You wouldn't call it a cup >> "hod/er", unless maybe your mother and sister are the same person. >Finally someone else who hears the US "soder" which sounds to my ear as >somebody engaged in an unmentionable sexual act. The other US >pronounciation which grates is "booee" instead of "boi" for buoy. There is also the ridiculous 'erb' (herb). The french word is similar, but spelled differently. There is no need to pronounce it like Inspector Clouseau. SignatureKen Tough >>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce >>> the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to join [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> somebody engaged in an unmentionable sexual act. The other US >> pronounciation which grates is "booee" instead of "boi" for buoy. So, we have gulls and boys in some of these here parts. Easier to just call them "Aids to navigation"! > There is also the ridiculous 'erb' (herb). The french word is > similar, but spelled differently. There is no need to pronounce > it like Inspector Clouseau. But, does your duggg biiite? Is it affected to pronounce French words in the English language as they are spoken in, say, France? Most Americans say "saw-tay", whereas "so tay" is closer to French pronunciation. In California, I note most folks are careful to say "Pee no Nwa" for a popular red wine, or Ren-wah for a famous Impressionist, thinking that all "r"s at the end of a word are dropped in French. They are not. Anyway, Sayonara for now. Signaturejohn mcwilliams Please BE SURE to capitalize IMPORTANT WORDS in case you think your audience is NOT very bright, or you have a limited vocabulary. >>>> Another good one to argue about, but pointless, is how you pronounce >>>> the word "solder" - the tin/lead/silver material used with flux to [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Anyway, Sayonara for now. My pet hate, as a New Zealander more closely aligned to English than American spelling and pronunciation, is 'nuclear' pronounced as 'nucular'. There is no vowel between the 'c' and 'l' in 'nuclear', and likewise in its noun form 'nucleus'. Do these mis-pronouncers say 'nuculous'? Colin D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Is it affected to pronounce French words in the English language as >> they are spoken in, say, France? Most Americans say "saw-tay", whereas [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > likewise in its noun form 'nucleus'. Do these mis-pronouncers say > 'nuculous'? I'm incredulous! Probably. The US has had two Presidents who had trouble with the word: Carter, who said "nuke ee are" and Bush who sometimes gets it right. It's a tough word for many, and perhaps some try to pronounce it that way regionally. I had a heck of a time pronouncing the fine light metal the American way for a number of years. Aluminium never gave me a problem, but the US equivalent stumped me for years. Signaturejohn mcwilliams >Probably. The US has had two Presidents who had trouble with the word: >Carter, who said "nuke ee are" and Bush who sometimes gets it right. Don't forget LBJ's "new clear". SignatureCharlie... http://www.chocphoto.com >> Probably. The US has had two Presidents who had trouble with the word: >> Carter, who said "nuke ee are" and Bush who sometimes gets it right. >> > Don't forget LBJ's "new clear". Dang! Y'all're right. I plumb fergot about it. Thanks for the addition. == john >> There is also the ridiculous 'erb' (herb). The french word is >> similar, but spelled differently. There is no need to pronounce [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are spoken in, say, France? Most Americans say "saw-tay", whereas "so >tay" is closer to French pronunciation. Well, there are words in english which are based on foreign words, and foreign words which are borrowed and used directly in english. The first class holds about 95% of words (to varying degrees) but some are more obviously just a minor modification. Herb would fall into that category. For words like "soufflé" or "croissant", I don't deny that something close to the french pronunciation is necessary. It rankles just as much as "erb", to hear some british pronouncing "pâté" to rhyme with "gate" (and no, they're not referring to the head..) Then again, you get into territory like "pa-Ri" (paris). In the same vein you could argue whether you ought say Bwaaaston. That's on top of the whole question whether to use anglicized place names, or even in the case of anglicized, do you say "pbeijing" or "peking" (which in itself is a mispronounciation of the transliteration!) Ah well, we just soldier on. The worst thing about 'erb' is that those who pronounce it that way consider those who don't, boorish. Cuts both ways I guess. SignatureKen Tough [] > Well, there are words in english which are based on foreign words, and > foreign words which are borrowed and used directly in english. The > first class holds about 95% of words (to varying degrees) but some > are more obviously just a minor modification. Herb would fall > into that category. Ken, You sound as if you might enjoy: "The Adventure of English : The Biography of a Language by Melvyn Bragg" http://www.bookbrowse.com/excerpts/index.cfm?book_number=1492 http://www.worldwidewords.org/reviews/re-adv1.htm David David J Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this- part.uk> wrote: >Ken, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://www.bookbrowse.com/excerpts/index.cfm?book_number=1492 > http://www.worldwidewords.org/reviews/re-adv1.htm :-) Thanks, I just bought that one! (Come to think of it, where is it, amazon? :-[] ) I'm a fan of worldwidewords, too... SignatureKen Tough >Well, there are words in english which are based on foreign words, and >foreign words which are borrowed and used directly in english. Do you recall George W Bush's words, at the height of the spat with France over the invasion of Iraq? "The French don't have a word for 'entrepreneur'." ;-) SAY 100 TIMES: FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES FREEDOM FRIES ... >>Well, there are words in english which are based on foreign words, and >>foreign words which are borrowed and used directly in english. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >FREEDOM FRIES >FREEDOM FRIES I was in Brussels last week and it amused me to find out there are no such thing as "French Fries" It turns out that The US forces came across potato chips in WW2 but did not realise they were in Belgium not France and so miss named them. (How unusual for the US forces not to know where they are :-) They should have been "Belgium Fries" Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >I was in Brussels last week and it amused me to find out there are no >such thing as "French Fries" It turns out that The US forces came [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >They should have been "Belgium Fries" I think you will find that is an apocryphal story. French Fries have existed for decades. They are known as "Pommes Frites" (literally "fried potatoes") and often served with fried beefsteak, known as "steak frites" - yes, they use the English word for beefsteak. Where Belgium and the Netherlands differ from France is that fries are more widely available from stalls and kiosks on the streets. Served in a paper bag doused with ketchup or, more often, mayonnaise, they are almost ubiquitous. >>I was in Brussels last week and it amused me to find out there are no >>such thing as "French Fries" It turns out that The US forces came [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > in a paper bag doused with ketchup or, more often, mayonnaise, they > are almost ubiquitous. Also, the timing of the story is off, since fries existed in the US before WW2. I'm sure he meant WW1. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm >Also, the timing of the story is off, since fries existed in the US before >WW2. I'm sure he meant WW1. "Fries" also existed in Britain long before WW2, but here they are most often called "chips", which is short for "chipped potatoes". >> Also, the timing of the story is off, since fries existed in the US before >> WW2. I'm sure he meant WW1. > > "Fries" also existed in Britain long before WW2, but here they are > most often called "chips", which is short for "chipped potatoes". As in "Fish 'N ....." Generally, though based on research conducted over 20 years ago, on the soggy side. Signaturejohn mcwilliams >>Also, the timing of the story is off, since fries existed in the US before >>WW2. I'm sure he meant WW1. > >"Fries" also existed in Britain long before WW2, but here they are >most often called "chips", which is short for "chipped potatoes". In the UK we call them chips. They are also known in some form across Spain, France and the low countries. I was just commenting on the origin of the name French Fries. Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Why don't we go back to topic: "bugget", what's that? /per >>> There is also the ridiculous 'erb' (herb). The french word is >>> similar, but spelled differently. There is no need to pronounce [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > are more obviously just a minor modification. Herb would fall > into that category. What I find amusing about many of the differences in pronunciation (and sometimes meanings) in UK vs US english is that often the current US version is actually "older" (ie- closer to the way it was pronounced in England 300 years ago) than the current UK version. "erb" / "herb" is one of those... crossed into English from the French ("erb"), brought over to the colonies/US with settlers. Then people in Britain started pronouncing the "h" (possibly to distance from the French way, or more likely a social-class overadjustment), but the folks across the pond didn't get the memo about the change in pronunciation and kept on pronouncing it the old way. > For words like "soufflé" or "croissant", I don't deny that something > close to the french pronunciation is necessary. It rankles just as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > in the case of anglicized, do you say "pbeijing" or "peking" (which > in itself is a mispronounciation of the transliteration!) Personally, I'll usually choose the word or pronunciation that I think will be understood in the manner that I intended (assuming that I'm aware of the choices of course). Sort of a "When in Rome..." kinda thing I guess. (I find this most useful when trying to communicate about food or clothing -- so many variances in meaning for similar words!) Note that when I mentioned choosing a pronunciation in the previous paragraph, I don't generally mean accent, although frequently if I'm speaking with someone who has a distinct accent, I'll find myself sort of migrating towards that without meaning to. Fortunately, I haven't had anyone become offended because they thought I was mimicking their accent to poke fun at them when this happens -- either they haven't noticed it, or it didn't bother them (probably because the accent sort of creeps in, so its not at all jarring) > Ah well, we just soldier on. The worst thing about 'erb' is that > those who pronounce it that way consider those who don't, boorish. > Cuts both ways I guess. >What I find amusing about many of the differences in pronunciation >(and sometimes meanings) in UK vs US english is that often the current >US version is actually "older" (ie- closer to the way it was >pronounced in England 300 years ago) than the current UK version. Very true. The short vowels 'a' in grass for example, show the region where most of those people made the trek from, and in general S.E. english pronunciation advanced to the forefront. >"erb" / "herb" is one of those... crossed into English from the French >("erb"), brought over to the colonies/US with settlers. Then people in >Britain started pronouncing the "h" (possibly to distance from the >French way, or more likely a social-class overadjustment), but the >folks across the pond didn't get the memo about the change in >pronunciation and kept on pronouncing it the old way. There's a similar angle in Afrikaans/Dutch. (Dutch seem to find the antiquated sound of afrikaans amusing at times) >Personally, I'll usually choose the word or pronunciation that I think >will be understood in the manner that I intended (assuming that I'm >aware of the choices of course). Sort of a "When in Rome..." kinda >thing I guess. (I find this most useful when trying to communicate >about food or clothing -- so many variances in meaning for similar >words!) True. I found that changes in accent are sometimes not at all deliberate but unconsciously forced because of consistent mis- interpretation. e.g. in UK my Namerican accented "..a half of <drink>" was invariably delivered as a pint, mis-interpreted as "I'll have a <drink>". The pronunciation of "half" just unconsciously drifts to something more reliably received. [Then there's the myriad pitfalls of english/american words... pants and fannys and the like, better left unmentioned, though trans-oceanic business does make for some confused amusement in names ... Chip Sarnie III, Randy Goodnight, and Fanny Humplick as actual first-hand examples.] SignatureKen Tough >There's a similar angle in Afrikaans/Dutch. (Dutch seem to find >the antiquated sound of afrikaans amusing at times) I have a (facsimile) copy a Dutch book from 1794. And the strange thing is that though the spelling is different, the language is not much different from modern Dutch as spoken in Holland. However the distance to spoken Flemish or spoken/written Afrikaans is much bigger. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency > There is also the ridiculous 'erb' (herb). The french word is > similar, but spelled differently. Not even if there is an 'istory of doing so? mike Bill skrev: > > What is a "lense"? > Same as a lens, but alternate spelling. You're probably aware of it > but are bored or have nothing useful to contribute. Some dictionaries > confirm the spelling as acceptable, others do not. I must say that I never have seen "lense" accepted as an alternative spelling of "lens" in any English dictionary. It isn't in Longman's, it isn't in the OED, and it isn't in Webster's. Indeed, Webster's Online specifically lists "lense" as a _misspelling_ of, among other words, "lens". What dictionaries do you refer to? Jan Böhme >Bill skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >specifically lists "lense" as a _misspelling_ of, among other words, >"lens". Precisely correct. >What dictionaries do you refer to? The BS dictionary? ;-) >>> > What is a "lense"? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Precisely correct. Actually it is not. I didn't want to get into all this, but some people are stubborn. :-) I was taught to spell it "lense" in school by an American english teacher, derived from the Latin word "lens" or lentil. We don't read/write Latin today, we use english, so the spelling is derived based on somewhat standard rules of the English language. My parents are of British, Welsh, German, and Italian descent and they spell it "lense" because that's the way the english spelling rules suggest it should be spelled, possibly derived from German "linse". There are many examples of words that end in a silent letter "E", some derived from Latin words, but it does not make the vowel before it long. Here's just a few: hence dense tense manse And I have this reference from the unabridged Merriam-Webster dictionary which has more detailed information than the crappy concise online source which only shows part of the full answer: Main Entry: lens Variant: also lense /'lenz/ Function: noun 1 : a curved piece of glass or plastic used singly or combined in eyeglasses or an optical instrument (as a microscope) for forming an image By the way, I need a new lense for telephoto work. > I was taught to spell it "lense" in school by an American english > teacher, derived from the Latin word "lens" or lentil. We don't > read/write Latin today, we use english, so the spelling is derived based > on somewhat standard rules of the English language. [Academically impeccable stuff trimmed out.] All well and good, except the accepted spelling is 'lens'. SignatureJohn McWilliams She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. > I was taught to spell it "lense" in school by an American english > teacher, derived from the Latin word "lens" or lentil. We don't > read/write Latin today, we use english, so the spelling is derived > based on somewhat standard rules of the English language. To be taught something at school hardly makes it correct. I was taught that light bends when it is polarised. No amount of arguing with the idiot helped. He had a PhD too (but in chemistry). Does that make light bend?. As for the spelling of lense/lens, I must admit that I have never seen it written with a final -e in print before now; so of course it looks wrong to me. But I may be wrong. And, anyway, who cares? > By the way, I need a new lense for telephoto work. How long? How fast? Zoom or not? Which camera? New or used? AF or not? How much? I did some research recently about it so may be able to offer suggestions. > To be taught something at school hardly makes it correct. I was > taught > that light bends when it is polarised. No amount of arguing with the > idiot helped. He had a PhD too (but in chemistry). Does that make > light > bend?. I remember several other instances where teachers tried to educate us poor saps, but found they didn't know what they were talking about. As it happens, the way I was taught made sense in a structural manner, so it stuck. I've seen it written this way in several publications over the years too. It's like the word colour - you can hear anyone say it, but you don't know how THEY write it. You can take a guess though... > As for the spelling of lense/lens, I must admit that I have never > seen > it written with a final -e in print before now; so of course it > looks > wrong to me. But I may be wrong. And, anyway, who cares? Apparently Tony does...so much that he filtered me out. Just imagine all the wonderful bits of information I will be illuminating the group with, and he'll miss it all. :-) I don't mind someone correcting me, it's happened on many occasions - heck I'm probably wrong about that. But sheesh, they better have something more than "because I say so" as proof that I'm wrong. But like you said, who really cares? I don't whine about spelling and grammar because I know many people have a hard time with the keyboard, or foreign language skills, or whatever. How's this for grammar and spelling: Knowutahmean Vern? >> By the way, I need a new lense for telephoto work. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > offer > suggestions. Sorry, I added that as an OOTC. I mentioned what I'm doing in another thread or two now that I switched from Canon to Nikon. I'm waiting for Nikon to get the new 70-300 VR into the stores to test it out. If it's not good enough, I'll have to opt for the 80-200 which is bigger, heavier, noisier than I wanted for travel. >>>> > What is a "lense"? >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Actually it is not. Actually, welcome to my kill file. Anyone who is as stubbornly wrong as you is unlikely ever to illuminate any debate on here. ;-) > Actually, welcome to my kill file. Anyone who is as stubbornly wrong > as you is unlikely ever to illuminate any debate on here. How bizzarely TP-esque. Anyone who disagrees with TP is automatically relegated to his kill file. And here on something off topic! I must be deep in there indeed! Of course TP has never shown a shred of ability as a photographer which would raise his stature a very little bit around here... C'mon TP, you must have a scan from the Paris Match cover that you claim to have published? Or anything worthy from your shooting pace of 50 rolls of film per average *week*. Something from your oft-changing gear list that has or does include Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad, Pentax, Leica ... etc. ?? C'mon TP put up... walk the walk... Do a little better than: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?september98/09-24-98/d9000d.jpg or http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?september98/09-24-98/d9000a.jpg and we might begin to think of you as a photographer... ;-) Cheers, Alan >> Actually, welcome to my kill file. Anyone who is as stubbornly >> wrong [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > automatically relegated to his kill file. And here on something off > topic! I must be deep in there indeed! Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? Oops...I mean, are you suggesting Tony doesn't like to play? Note that "play" is a very significant word in the movie "Over the Hedge" which I just finished busting a gut while watching today. So is the word, "nuts". Carell had me in stitches as the character Hammy: Hammy - "You wanna help me find my nuts!?!" Hammy - "Let's call it Steve!" Verne - "Steve?" Hammy - "It's a pretty name." :-) > "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message >> How bizzarely TP-esque. Anyone who disagrees with TP is automatically >> relegated to his kill file. And here on something off topic! I must >> be deep in there indeed! > > Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? About as much as Tony's "Paris Match" cover photo exists. ;-) > Oops...I mean, are you suggesting Tony doesn't like to play? With himself? I wonder if he's even gotten that far. > Note that "play" is a very significant word in the movie "Over the > Hedge" which I just finished busting a gut while watching today. So is > the word, "nuts". It's on my next to short list. For these recent high quality animated movies, nothing comes close to "The Incredibles" which has some subtle humanity competing with the superhero egos of all ages as well as the de rigeur embedded adult humor. (Which all good cartoons have had since Bugs Bunny...). The action sequences are really well done. > Carell had me in stitches as the character Hammy: > > Hammy - "You wanna help me find my nuts!?!" Too obvious. > Hammy - "Let's call it Steve!" > Verne - "Steve?" > Hammy - "It's a pretty name." eh? Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> Carell had me in stitches as the character Hammy: >> >> Hammy - "You wanna help me find my nuts!?!" > > Too obvious. Ah, but the delivery of it. >> Hammy - "Let's call it Steve!" >> Verne - "Steve?" >> Hammy - "It's a pretty name." > > eh? You'll get it when you see it! Don't want to spoil it for ya. >>> Carell had me in stitches as the character Hammy: >>> >>> Hammy - "You wanna help me find my nuts!?!" At the end he does find his nuts, of course and this reminds me of a movie where a sidekick mumbles insanely throught the movie "I've lost my marbles" and at the end ofcourse he finds them. (what movie was that...?) > Don't want to spoil it for ya. Well, rented it last night. I didn't find it greatly entertaining until the climax scenes began. Most esp. Hammy taking the drink and what ensues... very funny. Although the slights on American suburban consumerism were apt ... and will fly right over the heads of most them: What's that? It's soooo big!? That's an SUV, it carries humans around. Wow! How many humans? Usually? one! Sorry to say that I found The Incredibles much more entertaining (saw it twice at the theatre (had to bring friends...) and I have the DVD (seen it 4 or 5 more times)). But I wouldn't bother seeing The Hedge again except for the last 15 - 20 minutes. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > At the end he does find his nuts, of course and this reminds me of a > movie where a sidekick mumbles insanely throught the movie "I've lost my > marbles" and at the end ofcourse he finds them. (what movie was that...?) I know this is way off the Group's topic (sorry all), but I hate it when I can't recall such things (like movies). I haven't seen a reply to this question yet so I thought I'd take a stab at it: Was that "Hook" with Dustin Hoffman and Robin Williams, Alan? >>At the end he does find his nuts, of course and this reminds me of a >>movie where a sidekick mumbles insanely throught the movie "I've lost my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to this question yet so I thought I'd take a stab at it: Was that > "Hook" with Dustin Hoffman and Robin Williams, Alan? I'm sure it was. I was going to say a Peter Pan movie but I wasn't sure. But "Hook" it is. Cheers, Alan Bill skrev: > I was taught to spell it "lense" in school by an American english > teacher, derived from the Latin word "lens" or lentil. This surprises me enough actually to suggest that your memory might play tricks with you. What you have in the unabridged Merriam-Webster below is an "also" mentioning. The word "also" in a dictionary in front of a spelling or a pronunciation has a very specific meaning. It can roughly be translated as "This isn't really standard, but is occuring commonly enough not to be considered outright wrong". Thus, one may, just as you do here, justify a personal usage with a reference to an "also" entry in a respected dictionary. However, "also" variants are generally not considered suitable to recommend to others. In particular, it has been, and is still, considered improper to teach such variants in school, unless for very special reasons. Many more people would use it (see below for figures) if it really had been taught in school anywhere in anything like a systematic manner. Indeed, in my experience, the spelling is exclusively confined to photographers. The notion that photographers in general have to a much higher extent gone to primary schools where the spelling "lense" has been taught is highly improbable. > There are many examples of words that end in a silent letter "E", some > derived from Latin words, but it does not make the vowel before it > long. Here's just a few: > hence ...isn't a Latin word, but a good old Anglo-Saxon one, though. > dense > tense > manse All these three words, while ultimately of Latin origin, have been borrowed, with their spelling intact, from French. "Lens", OTOH, has been borrowed directly from Latin "lens". If anything, your examples suggest that English tends to keep the spelling of the language a loan word was borrowed from directly, if it is a all compatible with English spelling rules. > And I have this reference from the unabridged Merriam-Webster > dictionary which has more detailed information than the crappy concise [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > eyeglasses or an optical instrument (as a microscope) for forming an > image OK, so it is in the unabridged Merriam-Webster. However, if I previously thought that a single "also" mentioning in only one of the big dictionaries was the weakest authoritative confirmation of correct usage possible, I ow realise that there is an even weaker one: An "also" in only one of the big dictionaries which is explicitly contradicted by a web version of the very same dictionary. It is clear that it, at the very least, is highly controversial among lexicographers whether "lense" is to be regarded as a correct variant spelling or not. Furthermore, a quick Google search tends to support the decision of the other major lexica not to include it, and cast some doubt over whether it was a wise judgment of Merriam-Webster to include it. "Lens" gives 89,4 million hits on Google, around 70% of which seem to refer to the English spelling of a glass piece used for optical refraction, or some metaphor thereof, whereas "lense -lenses" gives 1,6 million, around half of which seem to refer to the variant spelling of "lens" in English. Thus "lense" occurs only in 1.25% of the spellings. As a comparison, "teh" occurs in 4% of the websites that score for either "the" ot "teh". So few hits on Google makes it understandable that the other major dictionaries haven't given "lense" as an alternative "also" spelling. And one can find more bad news for the "lense" spelling on Google, too, if one looks further: In my random sample of 100 hits for "lense", at least 14% of the hits that used it as a variant spelling for "lens" used both "lense" and "lens" in the same document. The higher the frequency of alternating spelling that is found, the stronger is the indication that the nonstandard spelling should be regarded as a mistake, and not as a correct variant. 14% is clearly way up in mistake territory. Thus: "Lense" us used only in just over 1% of the total spellings of the word searchable on Google, which is actually rather less than what you would expect from a reasonably common typing error, and a substantial proportion of those hits use both "lens" and "lense" indiscriminately. This is normally the pattern of a spelling mistake, not that of an accepted variant spelling. Thus, you have one respected lexicon that you can justify your spelling with. However, its recommendation seems even internally controversial, and it has't been followed by any of the other major lexica. Furthermore, the pattern of occurence of "lense" as a variant of "lens" on the web is highly indicative of a spelling mistake, putting some kind of a cloud over the judgement of Merriam-Websters in this particular case. This means not only that a very large number of people will continue to regard the spelling "lense" as an ignorant spelling error, but that they have at least as much justification for their opinion as you have for yours. Thus, your spelling might - in some sense of the word - be "correct". But the notion that this spelling is an error and a mistake must be regarded as at least equally "correct". Jan Böhme > Bill skrev: > > dense > > tense > > manse > > All these three words, while ultimately of Latin origin, have been > borrowed, with their spelling intact, from French. Are you sure about that? Are 'tense' and 'manse' even French words? Cheers, Luke SignatureLincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET) Swansea City 2-2 Southend United We went up twice with Tilly and Brush >>Bill skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Are you sure about that? Are 'tense' and 'manse' even French words? tense: not that I know of, but "tension" certainly is. The real point of course is that English does have a lot of words that are intact from the French, and a lot more that are derived from French and other languages. It is the most bastardized major language. Alan Browne skrev: > >>Bill skrev: > >>>dense > >>>tense [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > tense: not that I know of, but "tension" certainly is. "Tense" certainly normally is translated with "tendu" in modern French, but I had a distinct recollection that I had read that "tense" existed as a Medieval French word, and that the English "tense" is borrowed directly from that. However, it was a bit more time-consuming than I thought to identify the reference, so I dropped the matter for lack of time. "Manse" is of course still a normal, though by no means particularly common, French word. Jan Böhme > Alan Browne skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Jan Böhme OED: tense, _n_. [a. OF. tens, 11-13th c. (also tans, 11-16th c.); mod.F. temps from 13th c. = Pr. temps, Sp. tiempo, Pg., It. tempo:-L. tempus time.] 1. Time. Obs. or arch. (exc. in allusion to 2). c1315 Shoreham Poems i. 1061 And foluelle þat remenaunt Ine purgatoryes tense Eft-sone. c1380 Wyclif Serm. Sel. Wks. I. 377 Þe Gospel of Maudelen Dai is red on Fridai in Quarter Tense in Septembre among Ferials. [Editor's note. 'Quatuor Tempora', or, as it is called in Ireland, Quarter Tense; for the gospel read on St. Mary Magdalen's day (July 22) is the same as that for Ember Friday in September.] c1386 Chaucer Can. Yeom. Prol. & T. 322 It is to seken+That future temps hath maad men disseuere, In trust ther-of, from al þat euere they hadde. 1509 Hawes Past. Pleas. xliv. (Percy Soc.) 214 For onely of hym it is especiall,+in finall, The future tence to knowe directly. [1843 Carlyle Past & Pr. ii. v, There are three Tenses, Tempora, or Times; and there is one Eternity.] 1922 Joyce Ulysses 604 To fast and abstain on the days commanded, it being quarter tense or, if not, ember days or something like that. 2. a. Gram. Any one of the different forms or modifications (or word-groups) in the conjugation of a verb which indicate the different times (past, present, or future) at which the action or state denoted by it is viewed as happening or existing, and also (by extension) the different nature of such action or state, as continuing (imperfect) or completed (perfect); also abstr. that quality of a verb which depends on the expression of such differences. 1388 Wyclif Prol. xv. 57 A participl of a present tens+may be resoluid into a verbe of the same tens, and a coniunccion copulatif. 1530 Palsgr. Introd. 31 These thre accidentes, mode, tens and declination parsonall. 1571 Golding Calvin on Ps. vii. 2 The tenses or tymes of verbes are oftentymes chaunged among the Hebrewes. 1580 I in Baret Alv. To Rdr. viii, The Coniugation, Number, Person, Tence, And Moode of Verbes. 1580 Fulke Martiall Confut. iv. 169 Findeth fault with him for giuing the aoristes the signification of the present temps. 1599 Massinger, etc. Old Law iv. i, Thou præterpluperfect tense of a woman. 1643 Sir T. Browne Relig. Med. i. §11 In Eternity there is no distinction of Tenses. 1751 Harris Hermes i. vii. Wks. (1841) 152 The tenses are used to mark present, past, and future time. 1871 Roby Lat. Gram. ii. xvi. §549 [In Latin there are] Six tenses.+ Three, denoting incomplete action.+ Three, denoting completed action. 1876 Mason Eng. Gram. (ed. 21) §212 The tenses of the English verb are made partly by inflection, partly by the use of auxiliary verbs. b. fig. or allusively, in conjunction with mood: see mood n.2 2b. 3. attrib. and Comb., as (in sense 2) tense-aspect, -form, -making, marker, stem, system; tense-expressing, marking, -modal adjs. 1892 H. Sweet New Eng. Gram. I. 101 By tense-aspect we understand distinctions of time independent of any reference to past, present, or future. 1980 English World-Wide I. i. 113 It seems as though the tense-aspect system of English has been restructured. 1886 Amer. Jrnl. Philol. Dec. 448 That the present subjunctives of posse and videri+can+become tense-expressing. 1871 Roby Lat. Gram. ii. xvi. §550 All verbs in the passive have in the Indicative only three simple tense-forms. 1875 Whitney Life Lang. vii. 123 A case or two of verbal tense-making. 1971 E. Jones in J. Spencer Eng. Lang. W. Afr. 83 Krio is equipped with a range of tense markers, as may be seen from the following set. 1978 Language LIV. 84 The advocates of abstract remote structures posit auxiliaries including negative and tense markers as main verbs. 1962 C. Barber in F. Behre Contrib. Eng. Syntax 27 Any combination of four tense-markings. 1921 E. Sapir Language v. 96 Had the statement been made on another's authority, a totally different 'tense-modal' suffix would have had to be used. 1965 Language XLI. 173, 1200 adverbial suffixes, partly tense-modal. 1935 T. Hudson-Williams Short Introd. Study Compar. Gram. xiii. 72 The endings were added to each tense-stem. 1971 Archivum Linguisticum II. 100 The subjunctive is originally independent from the so-called tense stems, as is evident in Celtic and Tocharian and also in Latin. 1951 W. K. Matthews Lang. U.S.S.R. iv. 75 The tense system is complicated by being carried into the non-finite grammatical categories, including the gerund. 1963 J. Lyons Structural Semantics vi. 112 The 'tense-system' may be set out in terms of the two dimensions of time and aspect. ========== That's the noun; you want adverb and verb? >> "Tense" certainly normally is translated with "tendu" in modern >> French, but I had a distinct recollection that I had read that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > tense, _n_. <snip> > ========== > > That's the noun; you want adverb and verb? Adjective, Shirley: tense, _a_. [ad. L. tens-us, pa. pple. of tendSre to stretch.] name="m1.a"1. a. Drawn tight, stretched taut; strained to stiffness; tight, rigid: chiefly said of cords, fibres, or membranes. Opposed to lax, flaccid. Also transf. of a sensation, the breathing, the pulse. 1670 Phil. Trans. V. 2059 Whether the Mercury+be sustain'd by the external Air, or by a Tense matter within. 1676 Wiseman Surg. (R.), The skin was tense, also rimpled and blistered. 1728 Rutty in Phil. Trans. XXXV. 563 She complain'd+now and then of a tense Pain and a Difficulty in Respiration. 1756 C. Lucas Ess. Waters I. 75 Fiddle-strings are+much more tense in wet weather than in dry. 1802 Med. Jrnl. VIII. 518 A small spasmodic and very tense pulse of 120, which as the pain increased, resembled the vibration of a musical string. 1834 J. Forbes Laennec's Dis. Chest (ed. 4) 529 The artery remains full and tense, and resists strongly the compressing finger. 1879 Tourgee Fool's Err. xxxvi. 254 With every muscle as tense as those of the tiger waiting for his leap. name="m1.b"b. Entom. Applied to the abdomen when not divided or transversely folded, as in spiders. 1826 Kirby & Sp. Entomol. IV. 350 [Abdomen] Tense+when it is not folded. Ex. Most Araneidæ. name="m1.c"c. spec. in Phonetics, applied to (the articulation of) a speech-sound pronounced with enhanced tension in the muscles of the speech organs. Cf. href="x:lax:a"lax a. 5c, href="x:slack:a"slack a. 7e. 1909, etc. [see href="x:lax:a"lax a. 5c]. 1909 [see href="x:slack:a"slack a. 7e]. 1918 D. Jones Outl. Eng. Phonetics 21 When pronouncing the+tense vowel+the throat feels considerably tenser and is somewhat pushed forward. 1933 L. Bloomfield Language vii. 109 In German the tense vowels are longer than the lo |
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