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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / October 2006

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Here's what I'd like from Olympus

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RichA - 11 Oct 2006 02:17 GMT
Since they are stuck with 4/3rds, I'd like this:
A 6 meg camera (make it the E-3a) with as low a residual noise as
possible but with in-camera NR being an option ONLY.  A 20 meg camera
(make it the E-3b) for high resolution requirements.

Olympus stated that their lenses, even the kit lenses can support 22
megapixels when it comes to resolution.

If this is the case, make a camera that is MODULAR.  With two sensor
packs that can be exchanged.  The new E-3 body is certainly (think
Canon 1DsMkII) big enough to accommodate this.  It is the only way I
can think that the E-3 will be an all round performer.  Making it a
one only 12-14megapixel 4/3rds is IMO asking for disaster.
Jeff R. - 11 Oct 2006 03:10 GMT
> Since they are stuck with 4/3rds, I'd like this:
> A 6 meg camera (make it the E-3a) with as low a residual noise as
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> can think that the E-3 will be an all round performer.  Making it a
> one only 12-14megapixel 4/3rds is IMO asking for disaster.

If its going to be modular anyway, then how about a sensor cooler module,
with its own dedicated battery pack?

A little specialised perhaps, but _I'd_ look more than twice.

--
Jeff R.
RichA - 11 Oct 2006 04:16 GMT
>> Since they are stuck with 4/3rds, I'd like this:
>> A 6 meg camera (make it the E-3a) with as low a residual noise as
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>A little specialised perhaps, but _I'd_ look more than twice.

You could do a small peltier cooler, but they draw a lot of power and
you'd need a belt battery pack of some kind.  The only other
alternative would be an integrated fan and that wouldn't work too well
on its own.
Scott Speck - 12 Oct 2006 02:54 GMT
From my own experience with old-technology CCD's for use in faint galaxy
observations with large telescopes, cooling your sensor does wonders in
greatly reducing your dark current noise.  I've thought for a couple years
now that someone needs to market a thermoelectrically cooled digital sensor.
I used to cool my old RCA CCD down to -80C, and the dark current was
phenomenally reduced as a result. You're right, you need a lot of power to
do it, but considering the amount of gear we dslr photographers are willing
to cart around with us, why not have the option of cooling the CCD for long
exposure/low light shots?  In the studio, extra power is no problem.  In the
field, I'm sure we could lug around an extra 5 pounds, at least for short
distances, especially when we saw the low noise results afterward.  I've
always found that a surprisingly spectacular result, in the aftermath of
some new hardship-inducing technique, is MORE than enough motivation to
endure that hardship.  Face it, we carry around lots of heavy lenses to take
better pictures, and that's a hardship.  But who would give up all those
lenses for only one lightweight lens, knowing how limited their capabilities
would become?  So tack on another battery source that weighs as much as a
single decent telephoto lens... As for noise reduction, if the CCD is cooled
and maintained at a relatively fixed temperature, one could take "dark
frames" LATER, at that same temperature, and post-dark-subtract the images,
right?  Meaning you could also eliminate taking dark-frame "noise reduction"
exposures during your shoot.  Tell me THAT wouldn't save some time when
you're taking multi-minute exposures!  The other thing I used to cool CCD's
with was liquid nitrogen, but that's pretty much out of the question for a
dslr, even though it got those temperatures WAY down there...  The only
thing you have to do is thermally isolate the sensor -- whatever device is
cooling the sensor must be attached via thermally conductive "struts" to the
sensor holder itself.  And the sensor and its holder must be thermally
insulated from all OTHER parts of the camera, as well as possible.
Scott

>>> Since they are stuck with 4/3rds, I'd like this:
>>> A 6 meg camera (make it the E-3a) with as low a residual noise as
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> alternative would be an integrated fan and that wouldn't work too well
> on its own.
Martijn van Duijn - 12 Oct 2006 18:35 GMT
Our microscope camera is cooled to -80C. Yes, it works well, but besides
the big TEC and fan, isolating the chip in this camera involves putting
it in a deep vacuum environment. Any parts exposed to air getting that
cold result in lots of condensation/frost, undesirable near expensive
electronics!
I got the impression that building a well isolated sensor mount that is
compatible with deep cooling is no small feat (hence $$).

But also: cooling less may already make a big difference. I think the
difference between ambient and -20 is a lot more than between -20 and -80.

Martijn

> From my own experience with old-technology CCD's for use in faint galaxy
> observations with large telescopes, cooling your sensor does wonders in
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>> alternative would be an integrated fan and that wouldn't work too well
>> on its own.
J. Clarke - 11 Oct 2006 14:03 GMT
> Since they are stuck with 4/3rds, I'd like this:
> A 6 meg camera (make it the E-3a) with as low a residual noise as
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> can think that the E-3 will be an all round performer.  Making it a
> one only 12-14megapixel 4/3rds is IMO asking for disaster.

How about a 20 meg that can bind the pixels in groups of 4 to yield a 5 meg
low-noise mode?
 
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