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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / December 2006

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First shots in RAW

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cameragal - 20 Sep 2006 01:49 GMT
I just shot some pics in RAW.  I have CS2.  Can I use layers in RAW or
do I need to convert to tif or jpeg?  I am a newbie at this.  What is
DNG?  

thanks
John McWilliams - 20 Sep 2006 02:57 GMT
> I just shot some pics in RAW.  I have CS2.  Can I use layers in RAW or
> do I need to convert to tif or jpeg?  I am a newbie at this.  What is
> DNG?  

I'd suggest careful color balancing and exposure adjustments in RAW,
converting to 16 bit .PSD files. Unless you're sending to someone who
insists on TIFFs, the native photoshop format works well in my work
flow. OTOH, I have to convert a lot to jpeg as the final res. for a lot
of web stuff.

Some one else will chime in on DNG; I think I understand it but see no
need for it in my case.

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JOhn McWilliams

ShibbyShane - 20 Sep 2006 03:58 GMT
> I just shot some pics in RAW.  I have CS2.  Can I use layers in RAW or
> do I need to convert to tif or jpeg?  I am a newbie at this.  What is
> DNG?
>
> thanks

You can't use layers in the initial adobe camera raw or whatever it's
called where you adjust white balance and stuff, but after that you
can. It's best to do all your layering and everything in either RAW,
TIFF, or the photoshop format and then save it in whatever format is
best for what you are doing. If you are putting pictures on the web,
save them as jpeg, if not, you can save them as whatever.
DNG stands for digital negative and is basically adobe's form of RAW,
tho slightly compressed I believe (whether or not it's compressed or
just smaller file sizes I'm not sure).
So in summary, yes you can use layers in RAW and you don't necessarily
need to convert to some other format, tho you should always be sure you
are doing your work in 16 bit format.
Barry Pearson - 20 Sep 2006 11:29 GMT
[snip]
>  DNG stands for digital negative and is basically adobe's form of RAW,
> tho slightly compressed I believe (whether or not it's compressed or
> just smaller file sizes I'm not sure).
[snip]

By default it uses a lossless compression on the raw image data. (JPEG
lossless compression). This typically reduces the file size to a little
less than half compared with an uncompressed format, but it varies.

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Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/

Barry Pearson - 20 Sep 2006 11:27 GMT
[snip]
> IWhat is DNG?

Here is probably more than you want to know!

http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/dng/

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Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/

Holley - 20 Sep 2006 14:55 GMT
>I just shot some pics in RAW.  I have CS2.  Can I use layers in RAW or
> do I need to convert to tif or jpeg?  I am a newbie at this.  What is
> DNG?
>
> thanks

As I understand it RAW files contain the pixels as they came from the
camera, and the Adobe Camera RAW program does not change anything in these
files. It allows you to modify the way the information is seen, by the RAW
converter, and stores the modifications in it's database. I don't think you
can use layers in Camera RAW. You must convert the file as a .PNG, .TIFF,
both lossless, or .JPG before modifications such as layers may be made in
Photoshop.

Have a look at www.russellbrown.com. He has several Photoshop tutorials that
are quite good, if you can put up with his presentation style. You also may
want to register in the Adobe forums, www.adobe.com. Be aware that before
you ask questions in these forums, it is expected that you have read the
Adobe help files on the subject you are inquiring about. Google camera raw,
and get more information than you will ever be able to read. :-)

DNG is a "standard" Adobe is trying to establish for the file structure of
RAW files. They would like the camera manufactures to incorporate the DNG
format into there cameras. There are pro's and con's to this, but unless you
are looking for a long term picture file retention format, your energies
would be better spent getting to know Photoshop. (IMHO)

Hope this helps,

Holley
Rod Williams - 21 Sep 2006 18:13 GMT
> I just shot some pics in RAW.  I have CS2.  Can I use layers in RAW or
> do I need to convert to tif or jpeg?  I am a newbie at this.  What is
> DNG?  
>
> thanks

I open the RAW file in CS2. Do my color, exposure, etc. corrections and
then click "Open" and the RAW file is opened in CS2. I can now use
layers and everything from CS2. After I finish all work on the image I
save it as a .psd file and a .jpg. If I want to continue working on it
later I have the uncompressed .psd file to work from.
Padu - 21 Sep 2006 18:46 GMT
"Rod Williams"
> I open the RAW file in CS2. Do my color, exposure, etc. corrections and
> then click "Open" and the RAW file is opened in CS2. I can now use layers
> and everything from CS2. After I finish all work on the image I save it as
> a .psd file and a .jpg. If I want to continue working on it later I have
> the uncompressed .psd file to work from.

I was doing that lately, but I realize that the psd file is about 5 times
larger than my raw (sony's ARW) file... is the ARW file compressed?
G.T. - 21 Sep 2006 18:54 GMT
> "Rod Williams"
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I was doing that lately, but I realize that the psd file is about 5 times
> larger than my raw (sony's ARW) file... is the ARW file compressed?

Yes.

Greg
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John McWilliams - 21 Sep 2006 19:28 GMT
>> "Rod Williams"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Yes.

But not  by that factor, or even close to it. A RAW file has to be
translated to show up at all. What you see in ACR is, I think, similar
to a JPEG that's there to show the effects of all your changes, but
doesn't actually make them final till you process it out of RAW into
whatever.

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John McWilliams

Paul Furman - 26 Sep 2006 16:55 GMT
> "Rod Williams"
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I was doing that lately, but I realize that the psd file is about 5 times
> larger than my raw (sony's ARW) file... is the ARW file compressed?

Unless I did some really tricky layer masking, I just save the final as
a jpeg, quality 11 (of 12). The RAW conversion leaves a (CRW?) file with
a record of the RAW adjustments & I figure if I'm going to re-work it,
I'll have better skills in the future. High quality jpeg is good enough
for 13x19 unless it's going to be printed at 30x40 or something crazy
like that in which case I will want to re-do very carefully. Perhaps if
I used an odd shaped curve I might reduce the image size to 300 pixels
as a record of what my layering process was.

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Rod Williams - 11 Dec 2006 02:52 GMT
> Unless I did some really tricky layer masking, I just save the final as
> a jpeg, quality 11 (of 12). The RAW conversion leaves a (CRW?) file with
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I used an odd shaped curve I might reduce the image size to 300 pixels
> as a record of what my layering process was.

I'm assuming that when you save to jpeg you are finished editing the
shot and will never change anything else. After spending a lot of time
in P.S. I save to PSD so I can always go back and make further
corrections if necassary without any loss.
 
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