I'm curious:
How many people here can reliably differentiate between two prints: one
made from a 200 dpi source, another from a 300 dpi source? Assume a
reasonable viewing distance --- like 12 to 18 inches, with typical
indoor lighting.
Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
Scott W - 17 Sep 2006 16:46 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
> probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
I find it very easy to tell the differance.
That is close to printing an 8MP image at 8x12 vs. 12x18, the 12x18
prints are clearly getting soft.
But then I am pretty near sighted and so tend to see things many others
don't.
Scott
Mark² - 17 Sep 2006 21:59 GMT
Can you differentiate between...people??
:)
Many will never notice. Others will...with some caring and others not.
Much of it depends on the nature of the subject.
Images with small, interesting details in the subject will cause difficulty,
while less-complex subjects will look comparatively great. These are just
examples of why there is no hard and fast "rule" for printing dpi.
> I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
> probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...

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tomm42 - 18 Sep 2006 14:16 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
> probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
As a former large format printer a couple things to note first I used
Epson printers and they tend to like their ppi to be divided by 60. So
between 200 and even 240ppi there is a difference especially on a
smaller print like a 12x18. Beween 240ppi and 300ppi less of a
difference, but between 240 and 360ppi there is a noticeable
difference. I worked mostly with 6mp files from Kodak DCS760s and
scanned 35mm and mf files.
Tom
Stacey - 19 Sep 2006 01:20 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
> How many people here can reliably differentiate between two prints: one
> made from a 200 dpi source, another from a 300 dpi source? Assume a
> reasonable viewing distance --- like 12 to 18 inches, with typical
> indoor lighting.
It depends on the subject matter.

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Stacey
Lionel - 19 Sep 2006 07:03 GMT
>I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
>probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
My eyesight is extremely good. For me, spotting the difference between
200 & 300 DPI depends a lot on the medium, the image, how the image
was processed, & whether I have the full-res original onscreen to
compare to the print. For most people, most of the time, the
difference is fairly academic.

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ColinD - 19 Sep 2006 09:59 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
> probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
From a comfortable viewing distance, i.e. taking in the complete
picture, you would be hard pressed to see any difference.
Pixel-peepers who leave nose smears on the print will claim they can see
a difference - but they're not looking at the picture.
Reminds me of the story about a hi-fi fanatic who was always complaining
to the store about how his system sounded. Finally, the salesman said
"Quit listening to your amplifier, and instead listen to the music" The
moral applies to photogs as well.
Colin D.

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Craig M - 19 Sep 2006 12:14 GMT
I think that moral can be applied to a lot of techonolgy in life, I service
copiers, and it can be applied to them as well.
> Reminds me of the story about a hi-fi fanatic who was always complaining
> to the store about how his system sounded. Finally, the salesman said
> "Quit listening to your amplifier, and instead listen to the music" The
> moral applies to photogs as well.
>
> Colin D.
Scott W - 19 Sep 2006 17:15 GMT
> From a comfortable viewing distance, i.e. taking in the complete
> picture, you would be hard pressed to see any difference.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> "Quit listening to your amplifier, and instead listen to the music" The
> moral applies to photogs as well.
It depends on the person looking at the photo, being near sighted I
tend to look at prints a bit closer then many people do, no nose prints
however.
Where as I have a lot of prints at 200 ppi that I like a lot all of
them seem soft to me.
Whereas it does not bother most people when I view a photo that does
not look sharp it gives me the uneasy feeling that my eye aren't
focusing right.
Scott
ColinD - 20 Sep 2006 02:33 GMT
> > From a comfortable viewing distance, i.e. taking in the complete
>> picture, you would be hard pressed to see any difference.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Scott
Do you not use glasses to view at a comfortable distance? or put another
way, most people would view an 8x10 from about 12 to 15 inches away.
What distance would you view such a print at?
Colin D.

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Scott W - 20 Sep 2006 09:23 GMT
> Do you not use glasses to view at a comfortable distance? or put
another
> way, most people would view an 8x10 from about 12 to 15 inches away.
> What distance would you view such a print at?
Without my glasses my far point is 10 inches, which is a good distance
to view photos from, gives a nice wide screen feel.
With my glasses I have to use the bifocal part and that is not very
good at all for viewing.
Scott
Alan Browne - 19 Sep 2006 17:41 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Personally, I can't tell the difference from that distance. But that
> probably has more to do with my aging eyes than anything...
At normal viewing distance, not many can. Print up two the same end
size at both printer resolutions and see what _you_ think.

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Scott W - 19 Sep 2006 17:56 GMT
> > I'm curious:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> At normal viewing distance, not many can. Print up two the same end
> size at both printer resolutions and see what _you_ think.
A word of caution here, resizing a photo from 300 ppi down to 200 ppi
is not the same as comparing a 300 ppi source to a 200 ppi source.
This is because downsized image will be sharper pixel for pixel then
the original.
As an example if I down size from 8MP down to 3.5 MP and print both
the 8 and 3.5 MP image they will look close to the same. But if I take
a photo using a 8 MP and a 3.5 MP camera there will be a big
difference.
Scott
Alan Browne - 20 Sep 2006 15:30 GMT
>>>I'm curious:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> This is because downsized image will be sharper pixel for pixel then
> the original.
I really can't help it if you misinterpret what I write.

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plastic_razor@yahoo.com - 20 Sep 2006 12:09 GMT
> At normal viewing distance, not many can. Print up two the same end
> size at both printer resolutions and see what _you_ think.
I've thought about that.
But it's hard to find two photos of the same subject taken under
identical conditions, except one was done a camera giving approximately
200 dpi, another at approximately 300 dpi (or even 250 dpi).
Any ideas where I could find such photos?
Scott W - 20 Sep 2006 16:03 GMT
> > At normal viewing distance, not many can. Print up two the same end
> > size at both printer resolutions and see what _you_ think.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Any ideas where I could find such photos?
I did a test very similar to this when I was looking at up grading from
a 3mp camera to an 8. I wanted to know what the impact might be on the
quality of an 8 x 10 print. What I did was mount my camera on a
tripod and take a photo of a scene, then zoom in closer and take a
second photo, say from about 50mm to 82mm. I then printed the first
as an 8 x 10 and the second as a 4.6 x 6.15, this makes the two photos
look the same with the second one being a crop of the first. After
doing this test it was not long before I bought an 8 MP camera, to my
eye the 300 ppi print was far more pleasing.
Scott
Doug McDonald - 19 Sep 2006 18:15 GMT
> I'm curious:
>
> How many people here can reliably differentiate between two prints: one
> made from a 200 dpi source, another from a 300 dpi source? Assume a
> reasonable viewing distance --- like 12 to 18 inches, with typical
> indoor lighting.
Assuming that the 300 dpi source is not intentionally
blurred, the answer is a resounding yes, they can tell. I'm
assuming here that you have say two 8x10 prints, one from
a 1600x2000 pixel source and one from a 2400x3000 source,
and a suitable test subject, like a photo of a printed book,
or a scenic picture all at infinity with lots of detail. Now
if the photo is a portrait with a narrow depth of field,
then the average person may very well see no difference. The
portrait pro may look at the eyes and see a difference,
or maybe even they won't, depending ....
Now 300 dpi to 500 dpi is much harder to tell apart, but for
flat macro subjects or scenics, even there the difference
is present, if the originals are sharp. A good subject
here would be to compare 300 and 500 dpi scans of a
low-speed Fuji positive film 8x10 original transparency
of a scenic, or a scan of a printed page from a fancy
medieval manuscript.
Doug McDonald
Arthur Small - 20 Sep 2006 20:09 GMT
A very basic answer to this question is " If it looks good, it is good."
Dealers choice!
www.alldigital.fotopic.net
Scott W - 20 Sep 2006 20:23 GMT
> A very basic answer to this question is " If it looks good, it is good."
But going from there, if 300 ppi looks better 200 ppi then 300 ppi is
better.
Why settle for good when you can have better?
Scott