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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006

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Got a spare $200k for a lens?

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RichA - 14 Sep 2006 03:32 GMT
http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
Fred Lebow - 14 Sep 2006 03:59 GMT
Wow!
Nice
Thanks for the post
But
I cannot afford it.

Fred
Fred Lebow
-----

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> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
Roy Smith - 14 Sep 2006 04:03 GMT
> Wow!
> Nice
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Fred Lebow
> -----

Maybe a few of us could do a group buy on the lens cap.
Joan - 14 Sep 2006 05:01 GMT
256kg!  - They don't say what the dimensions are.

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Joan
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http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
Joe Makowiec - 14 Sep 2006 13:08 GMT
> 256kg!  - They don't say what the dimensions are.

At 1700mm f/4, the entry pupil has to be 425mm.

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Joe Makowiec
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w.beckley@gmail.com - 14 Sep 2006 06:49 GMT
> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b

Impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 7-2100 zoom that
Panavision makes for 2/3" video. 300x zoom ratio? That beast is insane.

Will
binoviewer - 19 Sep 2006 00:31 GMT
> > http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
>
> Impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 7-2100 zoom that
> Panavision makes for 2/3" video. 300x zoom ratio? That beast is insane.
>
> Will
binoviewer - 19 Sep 2006 00:33 GMT
> > http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
>
> Impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 7-2100 zoom that
> Panavision makes for 2/3" video. 300x zoom ratio? That beast is insane.
>
> Will

The Panavision 7-2100 is not even close:
Optical
300x continuous zoom ratio
7mm to 2100mm continuous focal length range
76.31° to 0.30°continuous full field of view range
F/1.9 to F/13 maximum aperture range
7mm (1x): F/1.9
280mm(40x): F/2.8
700mm (100x): F/5.6
2100mm (300x): F/13

The Carl Zeiss with 2x multiplyer would be 3400mm F8.

            Joe
John Francis - 19 Sep 2006 01:06 GMT
>> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
>
>Impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 7-2100 zoom that
>Panavision makes for 2/3" video. 300x zoom ratio? That beast is insane.

Uh huh.   It helps if you only need enough resolution for video.
Guy - 19 Sep 2006 22:36 GMT
>>>http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
>>
>>Impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 7-2100 zoom that
>>Panavision makes for 2/3" video. 300x zoom ratio? That beast is insane.
>
> Uh huh.   It helps if you only need enough resolution for video.

Where would you find a column of air still enough to use this?  If this
was used for short range "long distance" microscopy maybe but a 17" tube
of air will easily get very turbulent over hot terrain. Someone pointed
out the arabic script on the side of this lens... mirage anyone? -Guy
Joe Makowiec - 14 Sep 2006 13:06 GMT
> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddf
> c12571e100393a1b

Kinda makes the Hassy attached to it look like a bargain.

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Buy_Sell - 14 Sep 2006 17:24 GMT
Rich, I have an interesting setup like this on my point and shoot.
I am using a Sony Mavica CD300 (3X optical zoom) with a CrystalVue LX8
scope mounted on the front.  This should effectively give me 24X
optical zoom.

The interesting thing about this setup is that I shoot freehand and the
images come out crystal clear with no camera shake.  My point and shoot
uses a Carl Zeiss f/2.0 lens.

-------------------
> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
RichA - 14 Sep 2006 17:42 GMT
> Rich, I have an interesting setup like this on my point and shoot.
> I am using a Sony Mavica CD300 (3X optical zoom) with a CrystalVue LX8
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> images come out crystal clear with no camera shake.  My point and shoot
> uses a Carl Zeiss f/2.0 lens.

With telescopes, because you can get projection eyepieces in virtually
any focal length,
it's possible to produce working focal lengths in the 500,000mm range.
But, where does the resolution peak?  With the Zeiss, it's theoretical
maximum focal length with an optic
that large (16" wide) is around 40,000mm or 800 power.  That is
assuming perfect "seeing conditions" no heat waves, no temperature
gradients.
Paul Furman - 15 Sep 2006 17:14 GMT
How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?

"...Developed for long distance wildlife photography this supertele lens
provides 21x magnification. In search of the highest imaginable image
quality the client decided for 6x6 medium format and the Hasselblad 203
FE as the best camera he is aware of.

At 1700 mm focal length and a speed of f/4..."

> Rich, I have an interesting setup like this on my point and shoot.
> I am using a Sony Mavica CD300 (3X optical zoom) with a CrystalVue LX8
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>>http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b

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Paul Furman
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Buy_Sell - 15 Sep 2006 18:29 GMT
I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom

-----------------------------
> How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> At 1700 mm focal length and a speed of f/4..."
Paul Furman - 15 Sep 2006 18:45 GMT
> I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
> refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
> If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom

I think that must be magnification from 1:1 macro where 1:2 would be 2x.
I'm not sure what 6x6 format refers to (6 inches?).

>>How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>>At 1700 mm focal length and a speed of f/4..."

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John Francis - 15 Sep 2006 18:56 GMT
>> I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
>> refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
>> If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom
>
>I think that must be magnification from 1:1 macro where 1:2 would be 2x.
>I'm not sure what 6x6 format refers to (6 inches?).

No - cm.  A 6x6 frame is approximately 6cm x 6cm.

The x in 21x magnification (not zoom - it isn't a zoom lens!) means
it magnifies by 21 times compared to a "normal" lens.  That, of course,
depends on just what you consider a normal lens to be.  In this case
they obviously are assuming an 80mm lens as normal (on the Hasselblad).
While that's close to the diagonal of the frame size (one criterion
for choosing a "normal" focal length) many people would consider this
to be a fairly wide normal lens - it roughly corresponds to a 43mm
focal length on a 35mm camera, not the 50mm most people think of as
normal (which would be equivalent to a 100mm focal length on the
MF body).  But assuming 100mm as the normal lens on the Hasselblad
would only let them call it a 17x magnification - not as impressive.

>>>How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>>
>>>At 1700 mm focal length and a speed of f/4..."
DoN. Nichols - 15 Sep 2006 21:40 GMT
According to Buy_Sell <werkspace@hotmail.com>:

> I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
> refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
> If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom

    That lens was mounted on a Hasselblad, and I believe the normal
lens on the Hassy is 80 mm focal length.  That would make 1700 mm
calculate out to 21.25 times the focal length of the standard, so I see
no problem.

    A full frame 35mm SLR would want something like 1062 mm for
equivalent behavior.

    A 1.5 crop factor DSLR would want something like 708 mm for
equivalent behavior. (with 33.33 mm calculated as being the equivalent
of a 50 mm on a full-frame camera.

    Or -- that lens, mounted (adapted) to a 1.5 crop factor would be
giving a magnification of 51x.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
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Mike Coon - 15 Sep 2006 22:48 GMT
> According to Buy_Sell <werkspace@hotmail.com>:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> calculate out to 21.25 times the focal length of the standard, so I
> see no problem.

Surely the "x" means "times" and is the ratio of focal lengths at the
extreme ends of the zoom range. This will be independent of any camera or
other lens and not relative to anything else in the universe.

Mike.
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Floyd L. Davidson - 16 Sep 2006 10:35 GMT
>> According to Buy_Sell <werkspace@hotmail.com>:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>extreme ends of the zoom range. This will be independent of any camera or
>other lens and not relative to anything else in the universe.

That was *not* a zoom lense, and it is *not* "21x zoom", but 21x
magnification.  That is magnification of the *image*, not a
range of zoom focal lengths.

And magnification is of course compared to the "normal" lense
for a given format.  The focal length for a "normal" lense is
equal to the diagonal measure of the film size.  Hence with 35mm
film, a 1x magnification lense is about 42mm, and for 6x6 film
it is about 85mm.

Magnification is *totaly* dependant on the camera, and *is*
relative to a specific lense focal length.

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Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@apaflo.com

Prometheus - 16 Sep 2006 11:47 GMT
>> According to Buy_Sell <werkspace@hotmail.com>:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Mike.

Unfortunately for this 'explanation', the lens in question is not a
zoom. Besides, is there ambiguity in the term "21x magnification"?
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Ian             G8ILZ

DoN. Nichols - 16 Sep 2006 19:39 GMT
According to Mike Coon <mjcoon@@connectfee.co.uk>:
> > According to Buy_Sell <werkspace@hotmail.com>:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> extreme ends of the zoom range. This will be independent of any camera or
> other lens and not relative to anything else in the universe.

    The lens is a fixed focal length lens, so no -- it does *not*
represent the zoom range.  It is the ratio of the focal length of that
specific lens to the so-called "normal" 80mm lens on that camera.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.

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RichA - 15 Sep 2006 23:40 GMT
> I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
> refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
> If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom
>
> -

It's actually about 29x with a 35mm since 50mm is around 0.87x.
Buy_Sell - 16 Sep 2006 00:49 GMT
Very interesting...

I wonder what it would be for my Sony Mavica with the CrystalVue LX8
scope attached to it?  The Sony has a 2x digital zoom and a 3x optical
zoom and the CrystalVue LX8 has a 8x optical zoom.  With all of this
magnification, I am surprised that I can still take long distance shots
without a tripod and they come out perfectly focused and sharp.

-------------------
> > I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
> > refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> It's actually about 29x with a 35mm since 50mm is around 0.87x.
Floyd L. Davidson - 16 Sep 2006 01:17 GMT
>> I am not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that the x in 21x zoom
>> refers to ( 21 times 35mm ).  35mm being the standard camera lens.
>> If this were true, then a 1700mm focal length would be 48.57x zoom
>
>It's actually about 29x with a 35mm since 50mm is around 0.87x.

Except that 35mm film is 35.0mm x 23.3mm, which is a diagonal of
42.05mm, hence that focal length gives 1x magnification.

Therefore a 50mm lense would give 1.19x magnification, using
35mm film.

Regardless, the idea of "35mm being the standard camera lens" is
false.  If that 1700mm lense were mounted on a 35mm camera, the
magnification would be 1700 / 42.05, or 40.42x.

For 6cm x 6cm film (which is what it was made for), the diagonal
is 84.9mm (1x magnification), hence 20x magnification.

Note that the diagonal distance for 35mm film is almost exactly
half that of 6x6 film, which indeed means the magnification is
twice as much.

On a Nikon DSLR, with a sensor that is 23.7mm x 15.6mm, a
"normal" lense for 1x magnification is 28.37mm.  A 1700mm lense
would have a magnification of 60.

I don't see that as such a big deal in itself, as I was using an
800mm f/5.6 lense earlier today.  With a 2x telextender that
provides 56x magnification, and without it the magnification is
28x, which is significantly more than the 20x that 1700mm lense
gets on the Hassy.  Of course...  an f/4 lense that gets 20x on
6x6 film is somewhat more impressive in virtuall *all* other
ways than simple "magnification" compared to a 12 megapixel
digital image!  :-)

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John Francis - 15 Sep 2006 18:46 GMT
The diagonal of a frame of 6x6 film in that Hasselblad
is roughly twice the diagonal of a frame of 35mm film,
so the angle of view for any given lens on this medium
format camera is around the same as a lens with half
the focal length on a 35mm body (850mm in this case).

Or, to put it another way, it's comparable in both angle
of view and maximum aperture to a 600mm/f4 on any of the
so-called APS-sensor DSLRs.

>How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>>
>>>http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b
Mark - 15 Sep 2006 18:46 GMT
> How does the math work out to 35mm equivalent field of view?

That would be around the equivalent of 1000mm for a 35mm format.  The
'21x' comes from the fact that a standard lens for 6x6 is 80mm and
1700mm is about 21 times 80mm.

I hope his wildlife targets aren't very active!
Mark
 
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