Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Lobbying Nikon for a D50 DOFP button via firmware upgrade

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Tom - 12 Sep 2006 03:12 GMT
Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website:

D50 - D80 - D200...great line up.  Now that "better" is defined by a
10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap
the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!!

This would be a tremendous gift to all of us photographers that plan to
be Nikon customers for life, and happened to have ONE and only ONE
regret for the D50.  BUT, that feature gap is no longer needed to
differentiate between the D50s' 'Good' and the middle of the line D80
'Better'.

While it may have made sense, from a marketing standpoint, when the D50
had to be different enough from the D70x, that has changed.

SO, please, who ever reads this, think long and hard about finding the
internal *Champion of Photography*, to take this idea and deliver the gift!

...Now that I have lens #2, the 50mm 1.8, of course, the missing DOFP
(but nearly free to provide) feature is an obvious need.

THANK YOU!
Tom
DoN. Nichols - 12 Sep 2006 04:22 GMT
According to Tom  <Tom@dontsendmespam.com>:
> Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website:
>
> D50 - D80 - D200...great line up.  Now that "better" is defined by a
> 10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap
> the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!!

    Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap.
I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera
flash when I am in P, A, S, or M modes.  I am almost never in the modes
in which the *camera* is allowed to decide when to pop up the flash.

    But then -- I have the D70, which *does* have the DOF preview
button.  And I can say that I usually get more use out of the flash
pop-up button than the DOF preview.  The D70's viewfinder isn't really
the best for DOF selection -- and I would think that the D50's is even
worse for that.  I have no experience with the D80, but I've found the
D00's finder a lot brighter and larger than the one on the D70.

> This would be a tremendous gift to all of us photographers that plan to
> be Nikon customers for life, and happened to have ONE and only ONE
> regret for the D50.  BUT, that feature gap is no longer needed to
> differentiate between the D50s' 'Good' and the middle of the line D80
> 'Better'.

    If you ask for that feature -- be sure to add a menu item to
allow you to switch the button back to its original function, as you may
discover that you miss it once it is gone.

> While it may have made sense, from a marketing standpoint, when the D50
> had to be different enough from the D70x, that has changed.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ...Now that I have lens #2, the 50mm 1.8, of course, the missing DOFP
> (but nearly free to provide) feature is an obvious need.

    I have the 50mm f1.4, and a nice (chip-converted) 180mm f2.8,
both of which can benefit from the DOF preview in some circumstances,
but I still don't want to do without the flash control button.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.

Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Adrian Boliston - 12 Sep 2006 21:33 GMT
> Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap.
> I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera
> flash when I am in P, A, S, or M modes.  I am almost never in the modes
> in which the *camera* is allowed to decide when to pop up the flash.

As well as popping up the flash, the button is vital for selecting the flash
mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via
the sub command wheel).  The DOF preview just seems to make the image very
dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature
I have ever found useful. I would hate to loose control of the flash, or
have to use a "menu" to use it!
DoN. Nichols - 13 Sep 2006 02:32 GMT
According to Adrian Boliston <adrian@boliston.co.uk>:

> > Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap.
> > I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via
> the sub command wheel).

    Of course -- but usually when I pop up the flash, it is enough
to let it make the choices automatically -- and if I am going to be more
controlling about the flash behavior, I will probably be using the
SB-800 instead of the pop-up flash -- and I will have sufficient time to
use the menus at need.  But *I* am not the one who wants to trade off
that button for a DOF preview button on the D50. :-)

>                          The DOF preview just seems to make the image very
> dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature
> I have ever found useful.

    Agreed -- and the D50 finder is even darker.

>                           I would hate to loose control of the flash, or
> have to use a "menu" to use it!

    Amen!

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Jeremy Nixon - 13 Sep 2006 08:46 GMT
> As well as popping up the flash, the button is vital for selecting the flash
> mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via
> the sub command wheel).  The DOF preview just seems to make the image very
> dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature
> I have ever found useful. I would hate to loose control of the flash, or
> have to use a "menu" to use it!

DOF preview is next to useless with the focusing screens in those cameras.
They don't show accurate DOF, and stopping down the lens won't help with
that.  You can try it on one of the cameras that has DOF preview to see.
Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting
wide open.  You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture.

If you replace the focusing screen with a better one (Katz Eye, for
example), it can be more useful -- but with accurate DOF preview comes
a darker viewfinder, and on a D50, that could be very bad.  The clear
focusing screens are there to make the viewfinder brighter.

Signature

Jeremy  |  jeremy@exit109.com

Tom - 13 Sep 2006 14:19 GMT
>  

DOFP reasonable feature for D50...or not:

>>DOF preview is next to useless with the focusing screens in those cameras.
>>They don't show accurate DOF, and stopping down the lens won't help with
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>focusing screens are there to make the viewfinder brighter.
>>    

Hmmm...all good points.
So, then, is it true that the cost/size compromises made for the D50
with regard to the optical path from the lens to the eye are such that,
compared to other cameras (who wants to list their favorite SLR or DSLR
cameras for eyeball viewing pleasure?) this class of camera does not let
through enough light to be able to see distinctions of DOF - yes?

>Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting
>wide open.  You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture.

Why is the DOFP inaccurate?

I have also experienced manual-focus frustration...and recall a 1970s
era film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen.  Maybe I
need to think about the Katz Eye.
Rudy Benner - 13 Sep 2006 15:39 GMT
> DOFP reasonable feature for D50...or not:
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen.  Maybe I need to
> think about the Katz Eye.

Katz Eye works well, its exactly what I expected. Happy camper.
DoN. Nichols - 13 Sep 2006 18:41 GMT
According to Tom  <Tom@dontsendmespam.com>:

    [ ... ]

> >Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting
> >wide open.  You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture.
>
> Why is the DOFP inaccurate?

    I believe that the screen in the viewfinder simply lets more
light straight through, instead of interposing a ground glass screen or
a microprism screen.  As a result, your eye accommodates out-of-focus
objects by refocusing through the screen.  This can be reduced somewhat
by having the grid turned on, which gives your eye yet another thing to
anchor -- but if not careful, you will discover that the grid will go
out-of-focus, as your eye brings things which *should* be out of focus
into focus.

    A ground glass or a microprism will diffuse the light, so less
reaches your eye, thus producing a darker image.

    Part of the darkening can also be attributed to having to expand
the smaller sensor area to what looks like the same size image as
in the full-frame cameras.  Any magnification reduces light per unit
area.

> I have also experienced manual-focus frustration...and recall a 1970s
> era film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen.  Maybe I
> need to think about the Katz Eye.

    That may help -- but I suspect that you would do better with a
D70, or a D200 instead of the D50 under discussion.  I *know* that the
D200's viewfinder is much brighter than that on the D70, and the one
time I looked through a D50's viewfinder in the store, it was quite dark --
though that may be caused by there not being a battery in that camera at
that time -- I didn't think to check at that time.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.

Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Jeremy Nixon - 14 Sep 2006 01:34 GMT
> Why is the DOFP inaccurate?

The focusing screens are very clear, in order to be bright.  You look through
it, like a window, and focus with your eye.

With a coarser focusing screen, you're looking at the image projected onto
the screen, not the scene itself; your eye can only focus on that projected
image, and since at that point you're looking at the image being formed by
the lens, instead of the scene itself, you see a better indication of depth
of field.  However, this makes the viewfinder image darker.  A coarser
screen makes you see more of the projected image vs. the scene itself, but
as it gets coarser, it also gets darker.

Since the camera makers are pushing the ultra-slow zoom lenses these days
as an "all in one" solution, this is important.  You wouldn't want to look
through a D50 viewfinder and an 18-200 lens with a coarse screen designed
for manual focusing.

I replaced the screen in my D2x with a Katz Eye screen, without the optional
extra-brightness treatment (in order to get the best possible indication of
focus).  The D2x already has a much brighter viewfinder, and yet, I still
would not recommend using that screen if you regularly use lenses with max
apertures below f/4.  At f/5.6 it would be pretty unpleasant.  In a D50 it
would probably be unusable at f/5.6.  The extra-bright version would be a
requirement in that situation -- but it will still be darker than the
factory screen.

Signature

Jeremy  |  jeremy@exit109.com

babalooixnay@hotmail.com - 12 Sep 2006 18:52 GMT
> Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website:
>
> D50 - D80 - D200...great line up.  Now that "better" is defined by a
> 10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap
> the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!!

Programmable DOFP would be nice but so would mirror lock-up.  But that
would make the camera much more versatile than the marketing people can
deal with, remember they are the ones who want to charge you for the
software that comes with the camera:')
Tom - 13 Sep 2006 04:07 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!!
>>    

OK, Yes, I like the flash button as a flash button too - and I do use it
fairly often.  Not said, but should have been, was the expectation that
the button-of-choice could be toggled between its current function and a
DOFP function.

The real point is that to deal with this feature in the D50 they had to
*turn off* software.  It is a button-plus-software capability of ALL of
the other DSLRs to the automatic stop-down-to-take-picture capability
the camera must have.

It is only a marketing / product differentiation call, not an
engineering call, and now with the middle offering with a 10M sensor,
the differentiation is baked in.

Maybe after they drop the D70/D70s we can get a D50s with one extra
button...and a firmware upgrade for the Classic D50 to provide an
alternate, user choosable, use of some existing button for DOFP (and a
menu pick for mirror lock-up).

It is, after all, about the Photographic Experience, right Nikon?

>Programmable DOFP would be nice but so would mirror lock-up.  But that
>would make the camera much more versatile than the marketing people can
>deal with, remember they are the ones who want to charge you for the
>software that comes with the camera:')
>
>  
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.