Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006
Lobbying Nikon for a D50 DOFP button via firmware upgrade
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Tom - 12 Sep 2006 03:12 GMT Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website:
D50 - D80 - D200...great line up. Now that "better" is defined by a 10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!!
This would be a tremendous gift to all of us photographers that plan to be Nikon customers for life, and happened to have ONE and only ONE regret for the D50. BUT, that feature gap is no longer needed to differentiate between the D50s' 'Good' and the middle of the line D80 'Better'.
While it may have made sense, from a marketing standpoint, when the D50 had to be different enough from the D70x, that has changed.
SO, please, who ever reads this, think long and hard about finding the internal *Champion of Photography*, to take this idea and deliver the gift!
...Now that I have lens #2, the 50mm 1.8, of course, the missing DOFP (but nearly free to provide) feature is an obvious need.
THANK YOU! Tom
DoN. Nichols - 12 Sep 2006 04:22 GMT According to Tom <Tom@dontsendmespam.com>:
> Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website: > > D50 - D80 - D200...great line up. Now that "better" is defined by a > 10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap > the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!! Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap. I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera flash when I am in P, A, S, or M modes. I am almost never in the modes in which the *camera* is allowed to decide when to pop up the flash.
But then -- I have the D70, which *does* have the DOF preview button. And I can say that I usually get more use out of the flash pop-up button than the DOF preview. The D70's viewfinder isn't really the best for DOF selection -- and I would think that the D50's is even worse for that. I have no experience with the D80, but I've found the D00's finder a lot brighter and larger than the one on the D70.
> This would be a tremendous gift to all of us photographers that plan to > be Nikon customers for life, and happened to have ONE and only ONE > regret for the D50. BUT, that feature gap is no longer needed to > differentiate between the D50s' 'Good' and the middle of the line D80 > 'Better'. If you ask for that feature -- be sure to add a menu item to allow you to switch the button back to its original function, as you may discover that you miss it once it is gone.
> While it may have made sense, from a marketing standpoint, when the D50 > had to be different enough from the D70x, that has changed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ...Now that I have lens #2, the 50mm 1.8, of course, the missing DOFP > (but nearly free to provide) feature is an obvious need. I have the 50mm f1.4, and a nice (chip-converted) 180mm f2.8, both of which can benefit from the DOF preview in some circumstances, but I still don't want to do without the flash control button.
Enjoy, DoN.
 Signature Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Adrian Boliston - 12 Sep 2006 21:33 GMT > Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap. > I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera > flash when I am in P, A, S, or M modes. I am almost never in the modes > in which the *camera* is allowed to decide when to pop up the flash. As well as popping up the flash, the button is vital for selecting the flash mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via the sub command wheel). The DOF preview just seems to make the image very dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature I have ever found useful. I would hate to loose control of the flash, or have to use a "menu" to use it!
DoN. Nichols - 13 Sep 2006 02:32 GMT According to Adrian Boliston <adrian@boliston.co.uk>:
> > Hmm ... I, personally, would not care for that particular swap. > > I *use* that button -- most often to select to pop up the on-camera [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via > the sub command wheel). Of course -- but usually when I pop up the flash, it is enough to let it make the choices automatically -- and if I am going to be more controlling about the flash behavior, I will probably be using the SB-800 instead of the pop-up flash -- and I will have sufficient time to use the menus at need. But *I* am not the one who wants to trade off that button for a DOF preview button on the D50. :-)
> The DOF preview just seems to make the image very > dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature > I have ever found useful. Agreed -- and the D50 finder is even darker.
> I would hate to loose control of the flash, or > have to use a "menu" to use it! Amen!
Enjoy, DoN.
 Signature Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jeremy Nixon - 13 Sep 2006 08:46 GMT > As well as popping up the flash, the button is vital for selecting the flash > mode (via command wheel) and selecting the flash exposure compensation (via > the sub command wheel). The DOF preview just seems to make the image very > dark on the d70s due to it's poor quality viewfinder, so it's not a feature > I have ever found useful. I would hate to loose control of the flash, or > have to use a "menu" to use it! DOF preview is next to useless with the focusing screens in those cameras. They don't show accurate DOF, and stopping down the lens won't help with that. You can try it on one of the cameras that has DOF preview to see. Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting wide open. You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture.
If you replace the focusing screen with a better one (Katz Eye, for example), it can be more useful -- but with accurate DOF preview comes a darker viewfinder, and on a D50, that could be very bad. The clear focusing screens are there to make the viewfinder brighter.
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Tom - 13 Sep 2006 14:19 GMT > DOFP reasonable feature for D50...or not:
>>DOF preview is next to useless with the focusing screens in those cameras. >>They don't show accurate DOF, and stopping down the lens won't help with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>focusing screens are there to make the viewfinder brighter. >> Hmmm...all good points. So, then, is it true that the cost/size compromises made for the D50 with regard to the optical path from the lens to the eye are such that, compared to other cameras (who wants to list their favorite SLR or DSLR cameras for eyeball viewing pleasure?) this class of camera does not let through enough light to be able to see distinctions of DOF - yes?
>Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting >wide open. You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture. Why is the DOFP inaccurate?
I have also experienced manual-focus frustration...and recall a 1970s era film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen. Maybe I need to think about the Katz Eye.
Rudy Benner - 13 Sep 2006 15:39 GMT > DOFP reasonable feature for D50...or not: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen. Maybe I need to > think about the Katz Eye. Katz Eye works well, its exactly what I expected. Happy camper.
DoN. Nichols - 13 Sep 2006 18:41 GMT According to Tom <Tom@dontsendmespam.com>:
[ ... ]
> >Or just compare what you see in the viewfinder with the result shooting > >wide open. You see a *lot* more DOF than you get in the picture. > > Why is the DOFP inaccurate? I believe that the screen in the viewfinder simply lets more light straight through, instead of interposing a ground glass screen or a microprism screen. As a result, your eye accommodates out-of-focus objects by refocusing through the screen. This can be reduced somewhat by having the grid turned on, which gives your eye yet another thing to anchor -- but if not careful, you will discover that the grid will go out-of-focus, as your eye brings things which *should* be out of focus into focus.
A ground glass or a microprism will diffuse the light, so less reaches your eye, thus producing a darker image.
Part of the darkening can also be attributed to having to expand the smaller sensor area to what looks like the same size image as in the full-frame cameras. Any magnification reduces light per unit area.
> I have also experienced manual-focus frustration...and recall a 1970s > era film SLR (Olympus?) with a split-circle focusing screen. Maybe I > need to think about the Katz Eye. That may help -- but I suspect that you would do better with a D70, or a D200 instead of the D50 under discussion. I *know* that the D200's viewfinder is much brighter than that on the D70, and the one time I looked through a D50's viewfinder in the store, it was quite dark -- though that may be caused by there not being a battery in that camera at that time -- I didn't think to check at that time.
Enjoy, DoN.
 Signature Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jeremy Nixon - 14 Sep 2006 01:34 GMT > Why is the DOFP inaccurate? The focusing screens are very clear, in order to be bright. You look through it, like a window, and focus with your eye.
With a coarser focusing screen, you're looking at the image projected onto the screen, not the scene itself; your eye can only focus on that projected image, and since at that point you're looking at the image being formed by the lens, instead of the scene itself, you see a better indication of depth of field. However, this makes the viewfinder image darker. A coarser screen makes you see more of the projected image vs. the scene itself, but as it gets coarser, it also gets darker.
Since the camera makers are pushing the ultra-slow zoom lenses these days as an "all in one" solution, this is important. You wouldn't want to look through a D50 viewfinder and an 18-200 lens with a coarse screen designed for manual focusing.
I replaced the screen in my D2x with a Katz Eye screen, without the optional extra-brightness treatment (in order to get the best possible indication of focus). The D2x already has a much brighter viewfinder, and yet, I still would not recommend using that screen if you regularly use lenses with max apertures below f/4. At f/5.6 it would be pretty unpleasant. In a D50 it would probably be unusable at f/5.6. The extra-bright version would be a requirement in that situation -- but it will still be darker than the factory screen.
 Signature Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
babalooixnay@hotmail.com - 12 Sep 2006 18:52 GMT > Here is the note I just sent to Nikon via their website: > > D50 - D80 - D200...great line up. Now that "better" is defined by a > 10mb sensor, PLEASE provide a firmware upgrade to the D50 to let us swap > the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!! Programmable DOFP would be nice but so would mirror lock-up. But that would make the camera much more versatile than the marketing people can deal with, remember they are the ones who want to charge you for the software that comes with the camera:')
Tom - 13 Sep 2006 04:07 GMT > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>the function of the flash mode button to a DOF preview button!!! >> OK, Yes, I like the flash button as a flash button too - and I do use it fairly often. Not said, but should have been, was the expectation that the button-of-choice could be toggled between its current function and a DOFP function.
The real point is that to deal with this feature in the D50 they had to *turn off* software. It is a button-plus-software capability of ALL of the other DSLRs to the automatic stop-down-to-take-picture capability the camera must have.
It is only a marketing / product differentiation call, not an engineering call, and now with the middle offering with a 10M sensor, the differentiation is baked in.
Maybe after they drop the D70/D70s we can get a D50s with one extra button...and a firmware upgrade for the Classic D50 to provide an alternate, user choosable, use of some existing button for DOFP (and a menu pick for mirror lock-up).
It is, after all, about the Photographic Experience, right Nikon?
>Programmable DOFP would be nice but so would mirror lock-up. But that >would make the camera much more versatile than the marketing people can >deal with, remember they are the ones who want to charge you for the >software that comes with the camera:') > >
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