Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006
Informal Portable Portrait Lighting
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Randy W. Sims - 07 Sep 2006 09:28 GMT I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits (individual, small & large groups).
What is a decent setup to get me started? I've seen Alien Bees recommended before, and I've been browsing their site a bit. I don't have a lot to invest at the moment, so I'm looking for minimal (but expandable). I just don't know enough about lighting to know what to get first. Maybe the Beginner Bee + Background Bee?
Thanks, Randy.
cjcampbell - 08 Sep 2006 06:29 GMT > I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > expandable). I just don't know enough about lighting to know what to get > first. Maybe the Beginner Bee + Background Bee? You might want to take a look at the Nikon R1 close-up lighting kit. You don't want the R1C1 because the SB800 already does everything you want it to do as a flash commander. The R1 kit works extremely well for portraits. The whole thing comes in its own camera-bag sized case, but the essentials for portrait photography would be a couple stands, the flexible arm from the R1 kit, and the two flash units (adding a possible third flash). The kit strobes are very tiny, but effective. Or, heck, if you never shoot close-ups, just get a couple of the little SB-R200 Speedlites instead of the whole kit. They would be a lot cheaper than the Alien Bees and they give true i-TTL flash with the D70. The SB-R200 can be mounted on a tripod or held with a flexible arm clamp. It comes with a filter holder, but you will want the expanded gel filter kit.
Randy W. Sims - 09 Sep 2006 00:07 GMT >> I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some >> *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > clamp. It comes with a filter holder, but you will want the expanded > gel filter kit. Going with a Nikon flash unit might actually be a better option for informal portraits I plan to take. The Alien Bees setup is probably overboard for my needs (but still interesting). The R1 looks very nice, but for family shots will it do as well as getting another (or two) SB-800 or -600? If so is there any advantage to getting the SB-800 over the SB-600's for use as fill or highlight flash? What would be the best positioning for the lights?
The kind of shots I want to take are along the lines of:
<http://muse.smugmug.com/gallery/1847901>
Unfortunately, in these there was almost no light except my SB-800 flash: The main lights in the room were overhead where they would cause glare on the lens, so they had to be turned off.
Regards, Randy.
zeitgeist - 09 Sep 2006 08:30 GMT > The kind of shots I want to take are along the lines of: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > flash: The main lights in the room were overhead where they would cause > glare on the lens, so they had to be turned off. with the one flash you have, point it straight up with that little white card/tab out, that should do it.
Paul Furman - 09 Sep 2006 17:00 GMT >>I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some >>*portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You might want to take a look at the Nikon R1 close-up lighting kit. Do those act as freestanding battery operated un-tethered flashes?
> You don't want the R1C1 because the SB800 already does everything you > want it to do as a flash commander. The R1 kit works extremely well for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > clamp. It comes with a filter holder, but you will want the expanded > gel filter kit.
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cjcampbell - 15 Sep 2006 01:23 GMT > >>I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > >>*portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Do those act as freestanding battery operated un-tethered flashes? Sorry to be so late getting back to you, but somebody stole our phone lines. It took a week to get them replaced.
Yes, but they do not operate independently. They use the i-TTL wireless system and these strobes cannot use the commander mode, so they need another flash (the SB800 or the camera's internal flash) to act as the commander to set them off.
You could have the two strobes in separate groups; one strobe at normal TTL exposure and the other down one stop or maybe reflected off a wall. This allows one side of the subject to receive more light than the other. This is all set in the camera if you are using the built-in flash as the commander, or on the SB800 if it is the commander.
You preview the effects of the lighting by pressing the preview button on the camera. That also tests to make sure that all the strobes can see the commander. The strobes also accept gel filters if you want them. If you are using the built-in flash as the commander and you do not want any light from it to affect the picture, a little infrared shield that fits on the flash shoe is included with the kit. The kit also includes a flexible arm clamp and a sheet of diffuser plastic, as well as all kinds of close-up adapter rings, light guides, etc.
I like the system because it is extremely light weight, even with batteries. These little lights are small enough to put in your pocket, but they come with their own canvas duck carrying cases with belt loops.
The guide number of the R200 strobes is 10/33, so you might want them a little closer than you would place studio lighting, if for no other reason than to save your batteries. On the other hand, they are not going to burn your model, either. Recycle time is about two seconds on a fully discharged R200, but I rarely use more than 1/8 power so as a practical matter recycle time is almost instantaneous with fresh batteries.
The sample lighting book included with the kit is invaluable for its examples on how to set up the lights to achieve different effects.
zeitgeist - 09 Sep 2006 08:27 GMT > I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > expandable). I just don't know enough about lighting to know what to get > first. Maybe the Beginner Bee + Background Bee? first thing to do is learn the creative extent you can use the one 800 you have, IE: bounce off side walls for the effect of a very large softbox, program your flash to be a fill light to the normal room light or outdoor light levels.
then consider a second 800 that you can slave to your first, you'd be surprised how much of a cool effect that has your images.
I mean what's your goal? to get some good/better photos of the family, or replicate the images you get from the kiddie pix shooters?
Randy W. Sims - 09 Sep 2006 08:54 GMT >> I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some >> *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > program your flash to be a fill light to the normal room light or outdoor > light levels. I almost always shoot with the flash aimed at the ceiling with the soft dome on. Looking through the docs some more, I wonder how much it would help to take the flash off the camera and put it on a stand so that it is higher than the people in the photo and closer to the ceiling? It should give better diffusion shouldn't it?
> then consider a second 800 that you can slave to your first, you'd be > surprised how much of a cool effect that has your images. That's what I'm considering at the moment. I'm still not quite sure of the benefits of the 800 over the 600 for a secondary, fill flash. I'm also wondering if it would be worth getting a R200 to use as a background light, behind the subjects of the photo, pointing at the back wall, to eliminate shadows.
> I mean what's your goal? to get some good/better photos of the family, or > replicate the images you get from the kiddie pix shooters? My goal is better better photos. In the shots I've taken it is obvious that there is a single light source: The light is bright in the center and falls off toward the edges. For close wide shots, as most indoor shots are, it is much more obvious. Shadows also come up a good bit with single source lighting.
Thanks, Randy.
Randy W. Sims - 10 Sep 2006 06:07 GMT > I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > expandable). I just don't know enough about lighting to know what to get > first. Maybe the Beginner Bee + Background Bee? I'm researching using multiple Nikon flashes, but I'm hitting a wall. There is no information out there about how to set multi-flash. There are numerous connectors, but what is the advantage of one over the other. What are the different types of setups. The manual talks about "Advanced Wireless" & "SU-4", but never explains the difference. What about corded operation where a flash is out of view for the wireless operation? What connector to use? What are all the 8 or so cords listed on the accessories page for the Nikon SB-800?
Where can I find a reference that explains this stuff? The manual doesn't help, and I can't find anything online. Are there any books? Is the "Speed of Light" helpful here?
Thanks, Randy.
George K - 10 Sep 2006 15:52 GMT The Nikon CLS is a system with many compatible Speedlights that can be use wirelessly or as dumb strobes.
CLS is IR automatic remote, iTTL. The SU-4 mode is dumb remote slave for which you must suppress the pre-flashes.
The SB-800/600 has a hot shoe that uses the SC-17/28 cord for using the Speedlight off camera but corded and includes TTl connectors for cording additional Speeedlights, The SC-29 for corded off camera use with an AF light over the lens. TTL sockets for the SC-26/27 TTL cords. And a PC socket for the SC-15 PC to PC cord.
An interactive Nikon demonstration: http://nikonimaging.com/global/technology/speedlight/index.htm
See Ken Rockwell: How to Use Nikon Strobes Wirelessly, for Free! http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/ittlslave.htm Nikon SU-800 Remote Commander http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/su800.htm
An Introduction to the Nikon Creative Lighting System: http://www.photoventure.org/docs/creativelight.pdf#search=%22sb%20800%20thom%22
notes on using Nikon TTL flash .. http://www.planetneil.com/nikon/flash.html
Magic Lantern Guides: Nikon AF Speedlight Flash System: Master the Creative Lighting System! (A Lark Photography Book) (Paperback) Release date: September 28, 2006 by Simon Stafford http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Lantern-Guides-Speedlight-Photography/dp/1579905889/ sr=1-1/qid=1157898866/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2356211-4495110?ie=UTF8&s=books
To use the SB-800 and a Nikon camera both the camera and Speedlight manuals have to be carefully read. First learn how the SB-800 works on the camera. Then try the SB-800 off camera as a remote and the camera in the commander mode, use matrix metering and make sure the SB-800 in the remote mode is set to Channel 3 Group A (the only channel and group the D-70 will control). If you want to control more groups of SB-800/600 will need an SU-800 or an SB-800 connected to the camera's hot shoe to act as a master unit.
> > I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > > *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Thanks, > Randy. Randy W. Sims - 12 Sep 2006 23:57 GMT [...]
> To use the SB-800 and a Nikon camera both the camera and Speedlight > manuals have to be carefully read. First learn how the SB-800 works on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > SB-800/600 will need an SU-800 or an SB-800 connected to the camera's > hot shoe to act as a master unit. Many thanks for all the info and links. Eeh Gads, but there is lot to learn about lighting.
Since posting, I've done a good bit of experimenting with my single SB-800. I'm ashamed to admit that when I got my SB-800 and saw an immediate improvement in my shots, I didn't try to learn or experiment with placement: I pretty much just stuck it on the camera and pointed it at the ceiling and left it there. Taking it off and setting it to remote offers a lot more flexibility. In particular, I found shooting at a close wall behind me offers better diffusion of the light.
I do still need to expand my lighting arsenal, and I think I'm going with another SB-800 for now (and probably a third one not too long after). It's not as powerful as a studio strobe would be, but it is very portable and versatile as exemplified by some of the work of David Black[1] which I found among the references previously posted. In addition, I'm probably going to get the SC-29 cord to get my master flash unit off camera and still be able to set the two flash units up in different groups, so I can control their output separately.
I'll also need stands and brackets. Maybe the Bogen 3362 Light Stand and a 175F Bracket? The only potential drawback with the 3362 is that it doesn't have adjustable legs for uneven ground...
I'm also wondering if a reflector might be another inexpensive way to focus more light on my subjects. Would something like a Lastolite 48"x72" or a 48" Tri-Grip Sun/White reflector be a good investment?
I'm still concerned that this not going to be enough lighting power for larger groups (6-12 people), but then my "customers" (as in the people requesting the shots, not as in people actually paying) aren't as critical as I am of the shots I've taken so far. It's still just informal family shots, and those type of shots are not my primary interest with regards to photography. Still, I'd like to be as good as I reasonably can without investing a huge chunk of money.
I might also try to find some rolls of cloth or something to use as a cheap background for occasions when there is not a suitable background subject.
Also, has anyone had any experience with LumiQuest products[2]. I'm wondering if their Softbox & Snoot work well on flash units like the SB-800. In particular, I wonder if a Snoot on a SB-800 would make a good effects/hair light, while using a Softbox on the other SB-800 for the key light, and a reflector for fill with a single subject portrait?
Still Learning, Randy.
1. <http://www.daveblackphotography.com/workshop/index.htm> 2. <http://www.lumiquest.com/>
Alan Browne - 11 Sep 2006 18:46 GMT > I have a Nikon D70 with an SB800 Flash unit. I'd like to invest in some > *portable* lighting that can be used for informal family portraits [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > expandable). I just don't know enough about lighting to know what to get > first. Maybe the Beginner Bee + Background Bee? An AlienBee 400 and 800 is a great start, though you'll quicky want to elaborate a 4 or 5 light setup with grids/snoots/softboxes to set hair/rim lights, BG, fill and key.
Beware, once you go this route, the on camera flash quickly loses its charm...
Wireless camera flashes are another way to go and cvan be bounced off of walls, ceilings and umbrellas (or through shoot throughs) to achieve nice lighting, although it is never as well controlled, nor as consistent as set studio lights.
Cheers, Alan.
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