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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006

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Function of Nikon PB-6 bellows?

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Scott Speck - 07 Sep 2006 01:11 GMT
Hi Everyone,

Today I learned about the Nikon PB-6 bellows system, that can be used with
film or digital slr's.  What sort of lens would one then attach to the other
end of the bellows?  Does such a bellows allow one to use lenses normally
used on large format (like 4x5) cameras with slr's, or is there some other
function?  Does this bellows have the flexible geometry (rise, fall, various
angles) inherent in 4x5 camera bellows, enabling better aspect ratio control
for shooting closeups of architecture?  Also, I'm wondering whether this
bellows could have a lens "magnifying" effect, such that, if I attached my
60mm micro Nikkor to it, I could get much more than 1:1 image scale.

Any basic thoughts/info on the PB-6 and its use with an slr would be
appreciated.  The online ad for the PB-6 contained no real explanation of
its use.  Since I'm new to photography, I suppose that this newsgroup post
is my way of learning about the PB-6's function.

Thanks,
Scott
DP - 07 Sep 2006 01:29 GMT
I'm not familiar with that particular product, but let me wrack the brain
cells from my serious amateur film days of about 30 years ago.
That kind of bellows is used mostly for close-up work. It's also used for
duping slides and negatives if it has a holder that can be attached to the
end that can hold a slide or a neg.
You cannot use it to change a 50 mm lens into a 100 mm lens, for example, as
far as I can recall. It doesn't work as a teleconverter.
Another thing to remember is that as you increase the distance between your
lens and your focal plane, you are dimming the image on the focal plane
(where the rubber meets the road, photographically speaking). Therefore, you
will need good lighting on the thing you're photographing close up (or a
flash).
A bellows for a 35mm camera has some limited pan and tilt functions, but
probably not as much as a view camera. I could be wrong about that.
Since the purpose of this bellows is to enhance close-up photography, you
can't use it like a view camera, say to take pictures of a building.

However......   And this is just a guess on my part. It might be possible if
you have the bellows set at its SHORTEST extenstion, you might be able to
use it kind of like a view camera. Since the lens  would be as close to the
focal plane as the bellows will allow, your picture will be brighter than
when the bellows is extended, and the lens's close-up capabilities will be
at their weakest.  I don't know for sure. Like I said, that was just a
guess.

I'm sure more knowledgeable folk will chime in.

> Hi Everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks,
> Scott
Avery - 07 Sep 2006 01:45 GMT
>Hi Everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>Thanks,
>Scott

Try here Scott.

The PB6 is really just a long extension tube with a few advantages.

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/close-up_macro/macr
o_8a.html

tomm42 - 07 Sep 2006 13:49 GMT
> Hi Everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Thanks,
> Scott

As the last post said bellows on 35mm are just expandable extension
tubes. Most are rigid, Nikon had a bellows with some movement I believe
it was the PB3. Even at minimum extension you do not have infinity
focus with standard lenses. Some folks have used enlarging lenses on
bellows so they have infinity, but with out movements what's the point?

Where bellows really help is extreme closeups, I have done up to 20X
mag with special lenses on a 35mm camera with bellows. The other thing
a good set of bellows has is rack focusing for the closeups. If you
want to do extreme macro then you want a bellows.

Tom
Avery - 07 Sep 2006 14:33 GMT
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>Tom

what Tom said is all good.

Two things that I failed to mention were that the PB6 does not allow
you to adjust the geometry, the PB4 does, and your 60mm Micro Nikkor
would be absolutely ideal to hang on the end of this thing.
Prometheus - 07 Sep 2006 19:26 GMT
>As the last post said bellows on 35mm are just expandable extension
>tubes. Most are rigid, Nikon had a bellows with some movement I believe
>it was the PB3. Even at minimum extension you do not have infinity
>focus with standard lenses. Some folks have used enlarging lenses on
>bellows so they have infinity, but with out movements what's the point?

The main advantage of enlarger lenses is that they are designed for
minimum distortion at short distances and to be flat-field use, both of
which are desirable for macro applications. I am using a 75 mm enlarger
lens on Russian bellows with my 350D.

Signature

Ian             G8ILZ

tomm42 - 07 Sep 2006 23:04 GMT
> >As the last post said bellows on 35mm are just expandable extension
> >tubes. Most are rigid, Nikon had a bellows with some movement I believe
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> --
> Ian             G8ILZ

True macro/micro lenses are also flat field, but it is tough to get to
2:1 with one. Granted you don't have a 75mm. But Nikon has an 80mm PC
macro.

Tom
Prometheus - 08 Sep 2006 00:12 GMT
>> >As the last post said bellows on 35mm are just expandable extension
>> >tubes. Most are rigid, Nikon had a bellows with some movement I believe
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Tom

Very true, but bellows are often used with the normal )or other
conventional) lens as a low cost approach, sometimes reversed, although
reversing is of doubtful benefit since the lens is still being used far
from its design distances. I could use the MP-E 65 on my 350D to cover
1:1 - 4:1, but at around 700 GBP I can not justify it, I can not even
justify 300 GBP for the EF-S 60 to give 1:1, although it would make a
useful walkabout lens in the woods where there is too much obstruction
to see anything far enough away for telephoto, but middling to close is
useful. The bellows, adapter to fit the Canon, adapter for the enlarger
lens were all quite inexpensive, as ultimately was the enlarger lens.
Whilst the bellows approach is usable on the bench and gives me 1:5 -
3:1, it lacks convenience so at some point I will get the ES-S 60 for
out-and-about use.
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 08 Sep 2006 00:31 GMT
> Very true, but bellows are often used with the normal )or other
> conventional) lens as a low cost approach, sometimes reversed,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> convenience so at some point I will get the ES-S 60 for out-and-about
> use.

Considering the dirt-cheap price of the MP-E 65 for true macro work compared
to the price of a 105mmVR you Canon guys get a real deal.  It's too bad
nobody makes an adapter so that lens can be used on a Nikon dSLR.
Personally, if I had a choice of using that lens or screwing around with
bellows I would have to say the MP would win hands down.

Rita
tomm42 - 08 Sep 2006 15:07 GMT
> > Very true, but bellows are often used with the normal )or other
> > conventional) lens as a low cost approach, sometimes reversed,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Rita

Rita Nikon makes a set of macro lenses comparible to Canon, just that
the Canons aren't as optically well corrected or built as well. I have
the Canon 35mm and 20mm bellows lenses and have used a Nikon 40mm. The
difference is that the Nikons are made for scienific work and are sold
from Nikons Instrument division. I also have a Nikon 120mm f5.6 apo
macro for my 4x5 which is a variant of the scientific lenses. This has
to be the sharpest lens I have ever used anywhere.
Also the Canon macros (a least the FD variety) came with a microscope
screw mount, as well as the camera adapter. I have used one on a 4x5 to
get 20X enlargements. Nikon instrument sells a microscope screw mount
to F adapter. Hopefully Canon continued this practice with the latest
set.

Tom
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 08 Sep 2006 22:26 GMT
> Rita Nikon makes a set of macro lenses comparible to Canon, just that
> the Canons aren't as optically well corrected or built as well. I have
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> mount to F adapter. Hopefully Canon continued this practice with the
> latest set.

Do you have links to these, as I can't seem to find them?  I wouldn't mind
getting something that will get me close to what Canon's MP does.

Rita
tomm42 - 10 Sep 2006 16:51 GMT
> Do you have links to these, as I can't seem to find them?  I wouldn't mind
> getting something that will get me close to what Canon's MP does.

> Rita

I looked on the Nikon Instrument web site and couldn't find them. I'd
give Nikon instrument division a call, maybe discontinued like the
famous Zeiss Luminar macro lenses. The Nikon Apo Macro 120 f5.6 they
sell for 4x5 cameras is one of these macros, if you can get one with
out a shutter you wn't be disappointed. It is the only one sold through
the photo division.

Tom
Prometheus - 08 Sep 2006 19:23 GMT
>> Very true, but bellows are often used with the normal )or other
>> conventional) lens as a low cost approach, sometimes reversed,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Rita

A very nice lens, one I would like to have, but since the bellows (12
GBP 15y ago), adapters (45 GBP a month ago), and lens (from an enlarger
25y ago), the bellows win. When I have the money...

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Ian             G8ILZ

 
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