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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006Compact flash card: bulk buy forower price?
Hi Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? In particular, I'm looking to buy at least ten 4-gigabyte lexar 133x cards. Roger In article <44FCFCA0.9040903@qwest.net>, "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username@qwest.net> wrote: > Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal > on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? > In particular, I'm looking to buy at least ten 4-gigabyte > lexar 133x cards. You could call up B&H and ask to speak to a salesperson. Sometimes they are willing to negotiate a discount below published prices for large orders. Depends on the item, supply and demand, margins, etc.  SignatureJulian Vrieslander > Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal > on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? > In particular, I'm looking to buy at least ten 4-gigabyte > lexar 133x cards. What's a bunch? If you're talking multiple of ten you should talk to Cameta Camera. Rita >> Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal >> on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Cameta > Camera. I got a quote from B&H for $100 off each card if I order 10. I'll go with that. Roger >>> Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal >>> on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Roger you'd be financially better off with a disk drive that has a built in compact flash reader such as fastracx archos gmini etc. >>>>Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal >>>>on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you'd be financially better off with a disk drive that has a built in > compact flash reader such as fastracx archos gmini etc. 1) I have 2 of those, and 2) it wouldn't help much on a long trip away from power. Roger > 1) I have 2 of those, and 2) it wouldn't help much on a long > trip away from power. Some of us understand. Even ~3 days without reliable power can tax your nerves, even with a "should be enough" stack of CF cards and with a battery-powered digital wallet. FWIW, when you get back, if you want to sell off some of your then-surplus stack of 4GB CF's, I could use another one at a good price. Drop me a line whenever. -hh > you'd be financially better off with a disk drive that has a built in > compact flash reader such as fastracx archos gmini etc. Not really. He can carry 20 4GB CF cards and have better security and peace of mind. CF cards are dirt-cheap and it's best to not put all your eggs in one basket. I have a 40GB Epson P-2000 and it is great, but limits me to 40GB of storage, which isn't too bad. Ten 4GB CF cards takes up less space and is a hell of a lot cheaper. Rita >> you'd be financially better off with a disk drive that has a built in >> compact flash reader such as fastracx archos gmini etc. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > space > and is a hell of a lot cheaper. www.ajpurdy.co.uk sandisk 4gb ultra II = £164 x10 = £1640 Jobo giga one 40gb £99.00 With a car ciggy adapter you will have unlimited power. I even have a ciggy adapter that has two crock clips so you can run direct from a car battery. (i race model cars). So even in a tent in the sahara there is apower. Also my own archos mini £180 for 20gb has 10 hour run time. It takes about 5 mins to transfer 512 card to the memory. so for pure storage not a problem. Then there are standalone portable card readers come cd burners and dvd burners. also on the same site is the smart disk flash trax 80gb for £299 with spare batteries that are easily accessible, unlike every other one i've seen and they are £44 each. perhaps 4gb cards are insanely cheap across the pond. 1gb and 2gb are much better gb per pound value. Even then the jobo still wins. > With a car ciggy adapter you will have unlimited power. Only if you brought along a car. > So even in a tent in the sahara there is apower. Only if you brought your own solar panel...and have sunlight. Triple canopy in the rainforest typically reduces solar radiation by at least 95% when under its triple canopy. Sure, you could pick up one of your typical (inexpesive and) compact 4 x AA solar chargers, but they typically require 16-20 hours of full sunlight to provide a complete charge. Assuming that you can leave it unattended in camp, that's still 2-3 days. If you're on the move and can't leave it set up unattended, you'll probably be lucky if you get 3-4 hours of late afternoon sun, which effectively means it will take roughly a week to recharge just one set of batteries. > Also my own archos mini £180 for 20gb has 10 hour run time. > It takes about 5 mins to transfer 512 ... Then there are > standalone portable card readers come cd burners and dvd burners. 5 for 512MB would be 10 minutes for 1GB, or 40 minutes per 4GB card, which is agonizingly slow compared to products like the Hyperdrive HD80 (16MB/s means 4GB in <5 minutes). Besides, the OP has stated that he already owns two (2) digital wallets and has already determined that they're not suited to his needs of being 'away from power' for his extended period of time needs. Neither you nor I have any clue of if he's contemplating 4 days off the grid or 40 days. -hh ian wrote: > With a car ciggy adapter you will have unlimited power. Only if you brought along a car. car battery not the car. crop clips onto terminals use the ciggy adapter for your stuff. > So even in a tent in the sahara there is apower. Only if you brought your own solar panel...and have sunlight. no in your tent you have the car battery Triple canopy in the rainforest typically reduces solar radiation by at least 95% when under its triple canopy. no no car batt again Sure, you could pick up one of your typical (inexpesive and) compact 4 x AA solar chargers, but they typically require 16-20 hours of full sunlight to provide a complete charge. Assuming that you can leave it unattended in camp, that's still 2-3 days. If you're on the move and can't leave it set up unattended, you'll probably be lucky if you get 3-4 hours of late afternoon sun, which effectively means it will take roughly a week to recharge just one set of batteries. car battery > Also my own archos mini £180 for 20gb has 10 hour run time. > It takes about 5 mins to transfer 512 ... Then there are > standalone portable card readers come cd burners and dvd burners. 5 for 512MB would be 10 minutes for 1GB, or 40 minutes per 4GB card, which is agonizingly slow compared to products like the Hyperdrive HD80 (16MB/s means 4GB in <5 minutes). will have to time it. Also my 512mb is standard. Besides 10 hours batt life you could still do it. Besides, the OP has stated that he already owns two (2) digital wallets and has already determined that they're not suited to his needs of being 'away from power' for his extended period of time needs. Neither you nor I have any clue of if he's contemplating 4 days off the grid or 40 days. 40 days then his digicam itself will be having power issues. Time to stick a few car batts on a wheel barrow. -hh > ian wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > car battery not the car. crop clips onto terminals use the ciggy adapter > for your stuff. So, do you normally carry a car battery in your backpack? Do you overnight backpack with a car battery? I'm impressed! I save all the spare weight in my backpack for camera gear ;-). Here is the issue. I have 2 40-GByte hard drives that read compact flash cards. One backup in my opinion is not sufficient. I plan a minimum of two backups onto two different media, or 3 different hard drives. If I can't get power, I'll have plenty of storage until I can get the power. Getting to some locations requires small planes and weight restrictions. I would reserve my weight for camera gear, not car batteries. Have you ever taken a small float plane in Alaska to remote places? >>So even in a tent in the sahara there is apower. > > Only if you brought your own solar panel...and have sunlight. > > no in your tent you have the car battery You carry a car battery in the Sahara? Wow! > Triple canopy in the rainforest typically reduces solar radiation by at > least 95% when under its triple canopy. > > no no car batt again You carry a car battery in the rain forest? Wow! Can you check the car battery in in your luggage for the flight to the city near the rain forest, or do you buy it locally? ;-) > Sure, you could pick up one of your typical (inexpesive and) compact 4 > x AA solar chargers, but they typically require 16-20 hours of full [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > car battery Wow again! ;-) >>Also my own archos mini £180 for 20gb has 10 hour run time. >>It takes about 5 mins to transfer 512 ... Then there are >>standalone portable card readers come cd burners and dvd burners. So 4 gb takes 40 minutes and 5 cards fills it up. That is very slow. I need 80 to 100 GB, with option for 200 gbytes. backed up multiple times. I plan some trips to have 80 GB of compact flash and a laptop with 400 gbytes in USB drives (two sets of backup of 200 gbytes). With 80-100 Gbytes of images, I'll have my minimum 2 hard drive backup, and compact flash as backup. I'll also have Epson P2000/4000 as some of the drives, so backup readers in case the laptop fails. Then, when no power, plenty compact flash for several days. My 1D MarkII gets about 2 4-gbyte cards per battery, so if I carry 10 batteries, I could get all 80 gbytes full. Time off grid is irrelevant, as it is time to fill a card. On some trips, I have taken 5,000 images in 3 days (wildlife). I'm also doing high resolution landscapes with 60 to 70 frame mosaics for one scene and that is eating up a lot of memory too (raw or raw+jpeg). Then of course, with those 22 megapixel cameras coming out soon, 4 GBytes won't seem so large (just a few year ago 512 MBytes seemed large). > 40 days then his digicam itself will be having power issues. Time to stick > a few car batts on a wheel barrow. Nope. A 1D Mark II gets a lot of images per battery, and 10 1D2 batteries and 20 4-Gbyte compact flash cards are a lot less weight than your car battery plus a bunch of hard drives. Roger http://www.clarkvision.com (warning, evil top post:) Interesting to hear professional photography defined in terms of Demand and Capacity (logistics): ...On some trips, I have taken 5,000 images in 3 days (wildlife)... ...and from below: 1D Mark II gets a lot of images per battery, and 10 1D2 batteries and 20 4-Gbyte (= 80GB of CF) ... > Here is the issue. I have 2 40-GByte hard drives that read compact > flash cards. > One backup in my opinion is not sufficient. I plan a minimum of two > backups onto two different media, or 3 different hard drives. If I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > gets about 2 4-gbyte cards per battery, so if I carry 10 batteries, > I could get all 80 gbytes full. On some trips, I have taken 5,000 images in 3 days (wildlife). I'm also doing high resolution landscapes with 60 to 70 frame mosaics for one scene and that is eating up a lot of memory too (raw or raw+jpeg). Then of course, with those 22 megapixel cameras coming out soon, 4 GBytes won't seem so large (just a few year ago 512 MBytes seemed large). > Nope. A 1D Mark II gets a lot of images per battery, and 10 1D2 > batteries and 20 4-Gbyte compact flash cards are a lot less weight > than your car battery plus a bunch of hard drives. > > Roger > http://www.clarkvision.com > Interesting to hear professional photography defined in terms of Demand > and Capacity (logistics) Its not just pro's who do it, although they get the chance to do it more frequently. I'm very sympathetic to Roger, as I've gone through nearly the same thing to prepare for a couple of vacation holiday trips. Overall, I'm tempted to just tell Ian that he's being an idiot, but he is trying to be helpful (he thinks) because a car battery is a pretty cheap way to provide power. Unfortunately, the #1 priority isn't to save money - the #1 priority is to save weight. A few additional comments are below. > > [RE: Hiking] A 50lb backpack is a good rule of thumb for a practical upper weight limit. Too bad a car battery alone typically weighs 55lbs --- it means hiking with no food, water, tent...or camera! On Peru's Inca trail, you're looking at 3-5 days away from power, depending on the specific itinerary. You do have hired porters to carry your stuff, but by regulation, they're restricted to a maximum of 20kg (25kg minus 5kg personal effects) each, and this is measured at check-in, so you wouldn't be able to sneak in the overage of a car battery. Besides, it wouldn't be easy to fly it there on a commercial flight, so Ian would have all sorts of hidden expenses. While you could choose to hire a friend to carry the anchor yourself, you're now paying for his airfare to Peru, trip costs, etc. And since the Inca trail is at altitude ... the entry checkpoint is at nearly 10,000ft (IIRC, 2950m?) before then going higher ... a non-acclimated buddy lugging your 25kg (55lb) car battery is going to be found either sick or dead by the time you get to Dead Woman's Pass (4200m/13,800ft). > > I have 2 40-GByte hard drives that read compact > > flash cards. ... If I can't get power, > > I'll have plenty of storage until I can get the power. That was the strategy I used for a trip to Tanzania this year. I had good success with a pair of Hyperdrive HD80's. It did take me a little while at home to exercise the batteries (4 x AA NiMH), but the company (at least claims) that you can import up to 80GB worth of data on a single battery charge. My power intermittancy on the trip was never worse than 2 days, so I never had to do more than 10GB worth of transfers before I had power again. The main thing for me was that the HD-80 transfers are very fast: 4GB in < 5 minutes. > > Getting to some locations requires small planes and weight restrictions. Small prop-driven airplanes are frequently found in Alaksa, Peru, Africa, etc. Typical "total baggage" (including carry-on) are around 25kg per person. Its hard enough to find an outlet in a US airport to recharge your laptop. Good luck searching in these 'full featured airports': <http://www.huntzinger.com/photo/2004/peru/Manu-Airport-(_30_0306).jpg> <http://www.huntzinger.com/photo/2006/tanzania/ruaha_airport_c(IMG_4856).jpg> In Alaska, some of the fly-in camps may not have any power at all (the one I went to didn't). I wasn't shooting digital then, so researching power wasn't that important. Sounds like Roger can fill in some details here. In Africa, the more "luxury" safari camps will have a generator to run to provide power for ~5 hours in the evening, often run out to your banda. When you get to the semi-permanent tent bandas, they may be on a solar powered system, where there may or may not be power run out to your banda and in any event, the amount of power in the evenings is limited: the Foxes camp in Katavi NP (Tanzania) prefers for you to recharge in their dining tent during daylight hours. Figure 2-3 hours during the midday lunch break...and bring your own 6" extension cord pigtail to plug into your adaptor to have enough outlets for yourself (Radio Shack Product: 2361-2755). Of course, the inexpensive 'bush tent' is straightforward camping; no electricity here at all. YMMV for all of these for hot water in the morning for shaving, and if you'll be shaving by candle-light, since breakfast is early because you'll want to be out on a game drive either by dawn, or shortly thereafter. In the Amazon, a higher end camp will have hot water, provided by propane. You'll again be up when its dark for a dawn departure from camp (two candles is no better than one for shaving) and electrical power will probably be a "couple of hours in the afternoon" if offered at all (and if the equipment is working this week), again usually at a central location, like the dining room. > > ... 10 1D2 batteries and 20 4-Gbyte compact flash cards are a lot >> less weight than your car battery plus a bunch of hard drives. Purely from a weight standpoint, a Lead-Acid battery has a power density of ~30 Wh/kg, which is roughly half of a rechargable NiMH battery (~60 Wh/kg), and 1/5th that of a disposable Li-Ion battery (~150 Wh/kg). -hh >> Interesting to hear professional photography defined in terms of Demand >> and Capacity (logistics) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is trying to be helpful (he thinks) because a car battery is a pretty > cheap way to provide power. I was presuming you would travel the majority of your destination by off road vehicle. As for traveling too a foreign country with a car battery, far simpler to buy one there. Far easier to find a car battery than a canon powerpack. Also your battery would be carried from your vehicle to your tent. Or even just pop the bonnet and run some leads. I wouldn't expect you to carry the car batt with you simply leave it at base camp. Unfortunately, the #1 priority isn't to > save money - the #1 priority is to save weight. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > limit. Too bad a car battery alone typically weighs 55lbs --- it means > hiking with no food, water, tent...or camera! Leave at base camp silly. Youd didn't really think i meant take the damn thing with you everywhere you went? > On Peru's Inca trail, you're looking at 3-5 days away from power, > depending on the specific itinerary. You do have hired porters to > carry your stuff, but by regulation, they're restricted to a maximum of > 20kg (25kg minus 5kg personal effects) each, and this is measured at > check-in, so you wouldn't be able to sneak in the overage of a car > battery. RC racers and electric heli flyers have far more compact gel filled or lead acid batteries. I have a ripmax prodigy II charger that will run off a battery that will fit in a large pocket. The ripmax will charge lipos, nimhs nicads and lead acid. microprocessor controlled with lcd readout voltage and amp output completely controllable. Unlimited number of connectors you can stick on the end. I know most battery packs take AA these days i know nicad are unsuitable but nimh are fine. > Besides, it wouldn't be easy to fly it there on a commercial flight, so > Ian would have all sorts of hidden expenses. As mentioned earlier buy it when you get there. > While you could choose to hire a friend to carry the anchor yourself, > you're now paying for his airfare to Peru, trip costs, etc. And since > the Inca trail is at altitude ... the entry checkpoint is at nearly > 10,000ft (IIRC, 2950m?) before then going higher ... a non-acclimated > buddy lugging your 25kg (55lb) car battery is going to be found either > sick or dead by the time you get to Dead Woman's Pass (4200m/13,800ft). How many batts do you need to take 5000 pictures per day? disc drive batts will be negligable. >> > I have 2 40-GByte hard drives that read compact >> > flash cards. ... If I can't get power, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > Getting to some locations requires small planes and weight >> > restrictions. Fair enough. I would suggest going to a hobby shop though. compact chargers and high density lithium polymer batts for things like helicopters to charge up not the drives but your main camera. There is also backpacks with built in solar panels for £200. Charge while you walk. If it weren't for the insanely huge number of shots he's taking i would recommend film for such remote environments. Professional rugged standard eos 1V for the a bit more than the 30D. Plus power requirements negligable in comparison. I know Andy rouse (reknowned wildlife photographer) took a laptop, with dvd burner on as he soon filled the hard drive. That was an Amateur photographer article 2 years ago. No doubt the 80gb and 200gb drives are what he would use now. I'll look into that as he writes advice column and has links too www.warehouseexpress.com > Small prop-driven airplanes are frequently found in Alaksa, Peru, > Africa, etc. Typical "total baggage" (including carry-on) are around [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > -hh > I was presuming you would travel the majority of your destination by off > road vehicle. While that may sometimes apply, it is frequently enough an invalid assumption, such as has been manifested here, by the "no car" response to your suggestion to use the cigarette lighter. > > A 50lb backpack... > > Leave at base camp silly. Youd didn't really think i meant take the damn > thing with you everywhere you went? Since "Taking everything with you" is the definition of "backpacking", yes. Perhaps you have this confused with 'day hiking'. > RC racers and electric heli flyers have far more compact gel filled or lead > acid batteries. "Compactness" is the wrong metric. The right metric is power density. A Lead-Acid battery has a power density of ~30 Wh/kg, which is a limitation of its Lead-Lead Oxide *chemistry*, not its packaging, nor its electrolite viscocity (liquid vs gel). Plus, avoiding power transformation steps reduces Entropy-bases losses. Even if you're able to be 90% efficienct, it really means a 10% increase in the size/mass of your donor battery ("When you can, skip the middleman"). > How many batts do you need to take 5000 pictures per day? disc drive batts > will be negligable. Depends on the equipment. For my own gear, I'd figure 5-7 camera batteries, plus 8-12 * AA NiMH (.2700AH) per digital wallet, plus (TBD) for my camera strobe. Converting everything into an AA battery equivalent form factor and taking midpoints, I'd be looking at the mass equivalent of roughly 32 AA batteries (per day), which at 25g each would be roughly 800 grams (1.75lbs) before budgeting for battery chargers, etc. > There is also backpacks > with built in solar panels for £200. Charge while you walk. Only if you keep the panel nicely oriented horizontally, like a giant umbrella, and never walk under any tree canopies, or heavily overcast conditions. Naturally, they don't work so well at night. Suffice to say that the military has looked at them ... and are now looking at human-based power, such as thermal converters and pizeoelectric boot heels. -hh > Leave at base camp silly. Youd didn't really think i meant take the damn > thing with you everywhere you went? Since "Taking everything with you" is the definition of "backpacking", yes. Perhaps you have this confused with 'day hiking'. > RC racers and electric heli flyers have far more compact gel filled or > lead > acid batteries. "Compactness" is the wrong metric. The right metric is power density. Can't beat lithium polymer then. p.s my newsreader for some reason isn't putting the > into previous posters replies anymore how strange. pps using outlook express. Plus, avoiding power transformation steps reduces Entropy-bases losses. Even if you're able to be 90% efficienct, it really means a 10% increase in the size/mass of your donor battery ("When you can, skip the middleman"). really for the base camp application. with the nimh car racing nimh packs and the high performance lipo batts for helicopters. > How many batts do you need to take 5000 pictures per day? disc drive > batts > will be negligable. Depends on the equipment. For my own gear, I'd figure 5-7 camera batteries, plus 8-12 * AA NiMH (.2700AH) per digital wallet, plus (TBD) for my camera strobe. Converting everything into an AA battery equivalent form factor and taking midpoints, I'd be looking at the mass equivalent of roughly 32 AA batteries (per day), which at 25g each would be roughly 800 grams (1.75lbs) before budgeting for battery chargers, etc. yikes. the replacement batts for the sandisk fastrack are small compact lithium ion cells. Weight would be negligable. Which is the original point. The download times for the lexar 133 cards would be alot faster than the 5 mins timed for my 3 year old bog standard jessops CF cards. Simply downloading and not reviewing with several hours per charge and batteries far smaller and lighter than the batts quoted for a 1ds mkii. Since this thread started prices quoted for american cards are a hell of a lot cheaper than in britain for 4gb. 5000 per day is national geographic territory. they used to shoot that much total in a month or two assignment. if you are doing that per day you'd kill a 300D shutter within 10 days. A 20D or 30D shutter in 2.5weeks. I don't know the ratings of a 1D. Sounds suspciously like bollocks to me. > There is also backpacks > with built in solar panels for £200. Charge while you walk. Only if you keep the panel nicely oriented horizontally, like a giant umbrella, and never walk under any tree canopies, or heavily overcast conditions. Not a problem in sahara. neither is the orientation. Slightly more efficient these days than earlier panels. Naturally, they don't work so well at night. Suffice to say that the military has looked at them ... and are now looking at human-based power, such as thermal converters and pizeoelectric boot heels. coo never thought of that. Little nephew has light up heels on his shoes. Lot of mileage before you could charge up a 1D powerpack though. -hh fast trax review The unit comes supplied with a mains adaptor and a re-chargeable lithium ion battery for non-mains use. After charging the battery to 100% I managed to perform 7 successful downloads of a full 1GB IBM Microdrive before the battery was finally exhausted. I didn't test the unit for a 512 MB CF card but would expect it to perform at least 10 downloads. This is more than enough for anyone and I was pleased with the results. An online battery indicator (although I would have preferred it to be viewable all the time rather than buried in the menus) shows the % charge remaining. After several downloads were complete, whenever I tried to download a new card I received a warning message that the battery was depleted and that the operation might not complete. Another good idea. I was slightly disappointed to find out that there was no provision for an external AA battery pack, but this is perhaps a little niggly and reflective of my extreme usage. Additional Li-ion batteries are available for the unit should you be away from mains / generator / inverter power for an extended period of time. An in-car charger will also be available in the new year. jobo giga one So would I recommend the Jobo GIGA one? If you are kind of photographer that just wants to download their images without having the facility to edit them, or you travel with a laptop, then the GIGA one will be perfect for you. Sure the 30GB size could be larger , but the small physical size (and cheap price!!) of the unit more than makes up for this. The GIGA one has certainly presented me with a problem ahead of my 3 month trip to Antarctica; its small size and fast operation gives it a good chance of making the trip south with me. jobo giga view pro a.. Download options - the unit has several different download options which allow you to specify whether to download only supported camera files or just back up the entire contents of the card regardless. The best option however is the one that allows you to specify what the unit does when download is complete - I always choose BEEP then switch off. How many times over the past few years have I fought with a downloader to find out if a download if successful, well the Jobo unit makes this pretty obvious. a.. Reliability - the bottom line, I have not had one failure or one missed picture whilst I have been using this unit. It downloads quickly and efficiently and I trust it completely. The tough construction also means it can take the knocks in the field that others most certainly cannot. a.. External power supply - thank you god!! At last I can take the unit away from power for several days without worrying thanks to the rechargeable external power supply. This handy little accessory has saved my bacon a few times and provides a lot of power for such a small battery. In conclusion all I can say is that the Jobo GigaVuPro has done all that I have asked of it in the field. It is reliable, quick and provides more than enough features for all levels of technophobe. I'm just a photographer though and for me it does exactly what I need. Considering since this review was done there is a 200gb version of the fastrax i would go with that one. Spare batteries are available same time as purchase, they are small and even loading from a slow microdrive you can do 70gb on a single battery. At 340grams it weighs sod all too. The decision of course is yours. > fast trax review > > ... After charging the battery to 100% I managed to > perform 7 successful downloads of a full 1GB IBM Microdrive before the > battery was finally exhausted. I didn't test the unit for a 512 MB CF card > but would expect it to perform at least 10 downloads. IIRC, Microdrives have a reputation for sucking power, which is why you were only able to transfer only 7GB on a single charge. I'd expect solid state flash media to do significantly better; suggest a re-test. FWIW, the benchmark here is probably the Hyperdrive HD80, as the manufacturer claims that you can transfer up to 80GB on a single charge on their product. One review I found said that the claimed 80GB was a bit optimistic, another peformed this DIY test: "I successfully copied the 2gig card to the Hyperdrive 29 times. On the 30th attempt the copy failed when the disk filled up. I then formatted the drive and continued copying. I was able to make one complete copy. On the second copy I got an error stating that the batteries needed to be replaced." - ranord This would represent 30 * 2GB = 60GB copied, plus whatever power the disk reformating took, which is resonable to just note as a safety margin. > This is more than enough for anyone and I was pleased with the results. Sorry, but this is a YMMV. For example, 7GB wouldn't have satisfied my requirements for my Holiday this past summer (I set my minimum objective at roughly two days worth of shooting = 16GB). > After several > downloads were complete, whenever I tried to download a new card I received > a warning message that the battery was depleted and that the operation might > not complete. That's asking for trouble, pure and simple. At what point precisely did this warning show up? Whatever it was, this is where I would have stopped, because insufficent power during a write can easily corrupt the entire drive. > Additional Li-ion batteries are available for the unit should you be away from mains / > generator / inverter power for an extended period of time. Swappable batteries eliminates a single point failure mode = good thing. Assuming you bought a spare :-) Ditto for a spare charger. Redundency, redundency, redundency! > Sure the 30GB size could be larger, but the small physical size (and > cheap price!!) of the unit more than makes up for this. In the USA, B&H sells an 80GB version of the Jobo for around the same price as the Hyperdrive with 60GB ($230ish). The likely trade-off is that the Hyperdrive has an optional Hardware based 24-bit ECC checksum data verifier for improved data integrity. Of course, invoking this option does slow down transfer rates. > The GIGA one has > certainly presented me with a problem ahead of my 3 month trip to > Antarctica; its small size and fast operation gives it a good chance of > making the trip south with me. I'd expect only 40GB to be far too small for a 3 month duration trip; YMMV. But since you already own it, its on your short list until something you perceive is better presents itself. -hh >> fast trax review >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > were only able to transfer only 7GB on a single charge. I'd expect > solid state flash media to do significantly better; suggest a re-test. You do know i was quoting andy rouse don't you? > FWIW, the benchmark here is probably the Hyperdrive HD80, as the > manufacturer claims that you can transfer up to 80GB on a single charge [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > requirements for my Holiday this past summer (I set my minimum > objective at roughly two days worth of shooting = 16GB). My i suggest a video camera at this point ;) >> After several >> downloads were complete, whenever I tried to download a new card I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > stopped, because insufficent power during a write can easily corrupt > the entire drive. Quote from an official reviewer/photographer in the field. The point is you get a warning rather than downloading and future interruption or worse still data corruption. >> Additional Li-ion batteries are available for the unit should you be away >> from mains / [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thing. Assuming you bought a spare :-) Ditto for a spare charger. > Redundency, redundency, redundency! You know you are going to need a spare so buy it. >> Sure the 30GB size could be larger, but the small physical size (and >> cheap price!!) of the unit more than makes up for this. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > YMMV. But since you already own it, its on your short list until > something you perceive is better presents itself. andy rouse again. > You do know i was quoting andy rouse don't you? No, I didn't, for it wasn't clearly represented as a quote, nor was there any attribution. You do know that stealing somone else's works and effectively representing it as your own (either on purpose or by accident) is called 'plagiarism', don't you? > > Sorry, but this is a YMMV. For example, 7GB wouldn't have satisfied my > > requirements for my Holiday this past summer (I set my minimum > > objective at roughly two days worth of shooting = 16GB). > > My i suggest a video camera at this point ;) Oh, we shot some video too. Plus some 35mm film as well. This statement pertained to the "care and feeding" needs of just the dSLR. > > That's asking for trouble, pure and simple. At what point precisely > > did this warning show up? Whatever it was, this is where I would have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > get a warning rather than downloading and future interruption or worse still > data corruption. As described, the warning wasn't a "low battery" warning, but a "proceed at your own risk - it might now crap out at any time (and screw you)" warning. If that is the case, then the device's controls and/or user interface results in a situation where it will lead to failures to complete a card, which is a data corruption problem waiting to happen. > > Redundency, redundency, redundency! > > You know you are going to need a spare so buy it. True, but this invokes a larger problem, which is a proliferation of battery form factors. Consider a guy carrying this device (with its proprietary battery pack), his SLR battery (with its proprietary battery pack), a GPS or anything else that runs on AA's, and an iPod (with its proprietary battery pack): if he's going to carry spares, he needs 4 of them just to have 1 for any device, and at the very least, he needs to carry 4 rechargers ... 8 rechargers that if he wants redundency. You can save a not insignificant amount of bulk/weight ... and simultaneously improve your equipment's redundency ... by reducing one's proliferation of battery form factors. There's your reason why the high end Pro camera bodies include ways to run off of AA's: disposables are ubiquitus world-wide, plus they're the easiest to find a recharger for. YMMV, but the more I travel, the question of if a new product runs off of AA's is becoming an increasingly more important factor in my purchasing decisions. -hh [] > True, but this invokes a larger problem, which is a proliferation of > battery form factors. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to have 1 for any device, and at the very least, he needs to carry 4 > rechargers ... 8 rechargers that if he wants redundency. [] > YMMV, but the more I travel, the question of if a new product runs off > of AA's is becoming an increasingly more important factor in my > purchasing decisions. > > -hh Well, whilst I personally don't want to go back to AAs, there is an increasingly obvious need for standard Li-Ion batteries across a range of appliances. I don't know why some consumer rights individual or organisation hasn't championed this yet! David > Well, whilst I personally don't want to go back to AAs, there is an > increasingly obvious need for standard Li-Ion batteries across a range of > appliances. I don't know why some consumer rights individual or > organisation hasn't championed this yet! The US military learned the hard way in Desert Storm II about battery proliferation. As a result, their newer equipment designs are starting to standardize, and they'll be voting with their wallet. -hh >> Well, whilst I personally don't want to go back to AAs, there is an >> increasingly obvious need for standard Li-Ion batteries across a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -hh Will that propagate down to the consumer? David : >> Well, whilst I personally don't want to go back to AAs, there is an : >> increasingly obvious need for standard Li-Ion batteries across a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : : David Having worked in a photgraphic shop for long enough i noticed that most cells are identical all they have done is attach a proprietry set of contacts, no doubt to foil you from using rivals products and 3rd parties making compatibles will have to pay a fee for using that specific design. Lexmark and HP have used similar legal stuff to foil 3rd party ink cartridge designs. I would also suggest a jessops or hahnel charger. They have different face plates to attach to a multitude of batteries, therefore one charger the price of a manufacturers own will charge all your batts. As for the military most things ordered will be to their own spec so making the battery with a standard arrangements of contacts will therefore part of the spec and not an after thought if those in procurement have any brains at all. >>>> Well, whilst I personally don't want to go back to AAs, there is an >>>> increasingly obvious need for standard Li-Ion batteries across a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > therefore part of the spec and not an after thought if those in > procurement have any brains at all. I like the idea of the common charger - I've used a Hahnel one in the past for Nikon 5700 batteries and it worked well. You couldn't change the battery it charged though, so this sounds like a new and useful development. Cost matters more to the military now more than it used to, so perhaps there's a chance we'll see something trickle down. Hopeful! David : > You do know i was quoting andy rouse don't you? : : No, I didn't, for it wasn't clearly represented as a quote, nor was : there any attribution. yeah there was : You do know that stealing somone else's works and effectively : representing it as your own (either on purpose or by accident) is : called 'plagiarism', don't you? or by accident? no i didn't present it as my own. the "you do know i was quoting andy rouse don't you?" should have been a clue. Unless you really thought i'd been to antarctica. : > > Sorry, but this is a YMMV. For example, 7GB wouldn't have satisfied my : > > requirements for my Holiday this past summer (I set my minimum [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] : failures to complete a card, which is a data corruption problem waiting : to happen. hence the warning so don't do it. simple enough micro brain? : > > Redundency, redundency, redundency! : > : > You know you are going to need a spare so buy it. : : True, but this invokes a larger problem, which is a proliferation of : battery form factors. oh boo f.cking hoo. : Consider a guy carrying this device (with its proprietary battery : pack), his SLR battery (with its proprietary battery pack), a GPS or : anything else that runs on AA's, and an iPod (with its proprietary : battery pack): if he's going to carry spares, he needs 4 of them just : to have 1 for any device, and at the very least, he needs to carry 4 : rechargers ... 8 rechargers that if he wants redundency. carrying spare rechargers is just plain paranoia. At best you carry some spare fuses. At least in the uk they are a standard fit. : You can save a not insignificant amount of bulk/weight ... and : simultaneously improve your equipment's redundency ... by reducing : one's proliferation of battery form factors. There's your reason why : the high end Pro camera bodies include ways to run off of AA's: : disposables are ubiquitus world-wide, plus they're the easiest to find : a recharger for. Only thing is AA which i at one point recommended by the way weigh alot more than the little lithium ion ones. Which is why they were dismissed earlier and is why i recommend them now. By all means go the AA route. Also my 300D 20D and 700i camcorder all accept the same battery. One of the reasons i chose each model. : YMMV, but the more I travel, the question of if a new product runs off : of AA's is becoming an increasingly more important factor in my : purchasing decisions. : : -hh Well whoop di f.cking doo > : You do know that stealing somone else's works and effectively > : representing it as your own (either on purpose or by accident) is > : called 'plagiarism', don't you? > > or by accident? no i didn't present it as my own. the "you do know i was > quoting andy rouse don't you?" should have been a clue. Your quote (posted 11 Sep 2006 18:21:08 GMT) lacked a citation. To try to be clever in your subsequent excuses doesn't change that fact...at best, your tap-dancing is pitifully lame. > : As described, the warning wasn't a "low battery" warning, but a > : "proceed at your own risk - it might now crap out at any time (and > : screw you)" warning....a data corruption problem waiting to happen. > > hence the warning so don't do it. simple enough micro brain? A warning that is to be ignored is a useless warning. Sorry that both you and your hero Andy can't comprehend this. In any event, in trying to find the review that you stole, I found this one by Mr. Rouse: <http://www.warehouseexpress.com/index.cfm?photo/flashcards/mass.html#gigaone> This is apparently a different review, since in this one, he says: "Speed - I tested the GIGA One directly against the GIGA Vue by downloading the same SanDisk Extreme III CF 2GB CF card onto each. The GIGA Vue took 23 minutes to download the 2GB of data but the GIGA one took only 13 minutes to download the same data. Impressive speed." 2GB in 13 minutes = 2.6 MB/sec (sustained) The closest match I personally have to the CF card that Andy used is a SanDisk Ultra II CF 2GB...that's same brand, size, but 40% slower. In the Hyperdrive HD80 (60GB version), the full card downloaded in 3:30: 2GB in 3:30 minutes = 9.8 MB/sec (sustained). Yes, that is 3.7x faster than the product that Andy said had "impressive speed", despite the slower CF card. Maybe you should send Andy an email to let him know... BTW, Andy's review also said: "The only thing that really concerned me about the unit was the manual's stated battery life that one charge could only copy 3.6 GB of data." RTFM is always useful. Here, it is effectively a liability disclaimer that the manufacturer isn't even confident enough in his product to say it will be able to reliably download a single 4GB CF card. Wonderful. Andy does go on to say: "... I put it to the test. I gave it a full charge and downloaded the same 2GB card as used above. I managed 5 full downloads (10GB) before I judged that the charge was too low to take another..." Its good that there's a performance safety margin, although he probably did this 'test' under the same ideal conditions that I just did my I/O "test": a warm, dry room with warmed-up equipment. As such, it is a best-case condition, and its not what one should *expect* to reliably get, particularly when shooting outdoors on a bonesucking cold, damp day. And since he did this with a new Li-Ion battery pack, it doesn't have this level of performance today, since Li-Ion's degrade over time (even if not used). As per Wiki's page on Li-Ion batteries, a Li-Ion battery stored with a 100% charge for 1 year at 25C (77F) will have a *permanent* 20% loss of capacity. > : > You know you are going to need a spare so buy it. > : > : True, but this invokes a larger problem, which is a proliferation of > : battery form factors. > > oh boo f.cking hoo. It simply goes back to those 25kg baggage weight limits. > carrying spare rechargers is just plain paranoia. It is simple trip contingency planning, no different than carrying a spare SLR body, or redundency in backing up data. If you never venture outside of London, you can get away with a lack of a plan: just take 15 minutes to run to the nearest major store to buy a replacement for what broke. But as the "trip into town" becomes less trivial, using a "don't plan - buy as you break" strategy becomes increasingly unrealistic: if you're at the roundabout in Cowfold, West Sussex (M23 to A23 to A272 at A281), where's your convenient local camera store? Maybe ask the owner of the local flourist shop - IIRC, she's around 50m north on A281, on the left side of the road. -hh : > : You do know that stealing somone else's works and effectively : > : representing it as your own (either on purpose or by accident) is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : to be clever in your subsequent excuses doesn't change that fact...at : best, your tap-dancing is pitifully lame. your name calling is lame, or should i say libelous. you claim to foolishly believe i had bought all three drives? I smell bullshit! p.s post dated 11/09/2006 12:59 I know Andy rouse (reknowned wildlife photographer) took a laptop, with dvd burner on as he soon filled the hard drive. That was an Amateur photographer article 2 years ago. No doubt the 80gb and 200gb drives are what he would use now. I'll look into that as he writes advice column and has links too www.warehouseexpress.com this should have been a clue too that the subsequent reviews are cut and paste were not mine. But if you wish to contact mr rouse and inform him of my cyber pilfering i'm quite happy to let him decide for himself. > post dated 11/09/2006 12:59 > I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > this should have been a clue too that the subsequent reviews are cut and > paste were not mine. So you found where you mentioned the guy's name 2-5 posts earlier. This is hardly a "good" clue, nor does it forgive your failure to provide a proper citation, or even a "I found a review" introduction. > But if you wish to contact mr rouse and inform him of > my cyber pilfering i'm quite happy to let him decide for himself. Most photographers are sensitive to copyright theft. You're apparently not...just yet another anonymous coward, hiding behind his screen. I doubt that you even have a website with any of your own photos on them...you simply prefer to offer useless "advice" (backpacking with a car battery - peh!). And you're even being taken to task for your poor use of the Queen's English by an American! Recommend you go buy a copy of "Hodges' Harbrace Handbook", ISBN 083840345X, and learn how to provide a fair attribution of a copyrighted work you do not own. -hh Hmmm.... You guys are still going at it? ;-) I bought the 10 lexar 4GB 133x cards. So I'm armed with 80 GB of CF, a laptop with an 80 Gb drive, and 2 100 GB USB drives, plus an Epson P2000 (40 Gb) and a Nixvue Vista (40 Gb). I'm set for now. Roger > Hmmm.... You guys are still going at it? ;-) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > plus an Epson P2000 (40 Gb) and a Nixvue > Vista (40 Gb). curious descision to me. I would have gotten 2 epson p2000, and 2 or 3 cards. much cheaper. > I'm set for now. > > Roger SNIP > I would have gotten 2 epson p2000, and 2 or 3 cards. > much cheaper. True, but also more risky (1 drive failure can mean all images are lost), and one would need several exchange batteries for the external HDs (very few power outlets in the wild ;-) ). I also don't know how rugged these Epsons are under bad weather conditions and while hiking in rough terrain. SignatureBart : > : As described, the warning wasn't a "low battery" warning, but a : > : "proceed at your own risk - it might now crap out at any time (and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : A warning that is to be ignored is a useless warning. Sorry that both : you and your hero Andy can't comprehend this. Well it was a review for british readers. I forget that americans can't take responsibility for any of their own actions or think for themselves. : In any event, in trying to find the review that you stole, more libelous nonsense. I found this : one by Mr. Rouse: <http://www.warehouseexpress.com/index.cfm?photo/flashcards/mass.html#gigaone> : This is apparently a different review, since in this one, he says: : [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] : that the manufacturer isn't even confident enough in his product to say : it will be able to reliably download a single 4GB CF card. Wonderful. like i said stick to the fastrax. that battery was much more successful. 40gb easy. : Andy does go on to say: : [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] : : It simply goes back to those 25kg baggage weight limits. AA capacity versus weight is far poorer than lithium batteries. : > carrying spare rechargers is just plain paranoia. : [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : local flourist shop - IIRC, she's around 50m north on A281, on the left : side of the road. the likely hood of chargers failing is small very small. carrying spare batteries negates this problem as stated. I'm growing tired of the goal posts moving and each reply i make for one situation being taken out of context and applied to another. I've stated that before but i'm using shorter words now to make sure the message that your arguments are pointless at this point and this thread just got marked to be ignored. : -hh > Well it was a review for british readers. But <rec.photo.digital.slr-systems> is a worldwide distribution: know your audience. > : It simply goes back to those 25kg baggage weight limits. > > AA capacity versus weight is far poorer than lithium batteries. For NiMH AA's, its around 40%. However, since we're comparing rechargables, we're obligated to also include the battery's chargers, so ithe difference is going to be less. It may even be reversed if the NiMH's form factor reduces proliferation of battery form factors because this reduces the number of chargers carried, as has already been mentioned. Its not as simple as just the battery chemistry alone. > the likely hood of chargers failing is small very small. On a stable, first world quality power grid, sure. But a diesel generator in the backcountry ... its no longer a trivial risk. > I'm growing tired of the goal posts moving and each reply i make for one > situation being taken out of context and applied to another. The problem is that your "easy solutions" would work most of the time but not all the time, and this whole thread has been the OP trying to sort out how to plan for just such an exception to the general practice. Instead of simply accepting the OP's identified constraints, you tried to deny them. Overall, I sincerely hope that it doesn't take a ruined £10,000 vacation for you to realize the wisdom in the saying: "hope for the best, plan for the worst", but with your attitude, I do have to say that you would kharmatically deserve it. -hh > Can't beat lithium polymer then. Agreed; Li-Ion has roughly 5x the power density of a lead acid battery, which funtionally translates to 1/5th the weight. > p.s my newsreader for some reason isn't putting the > into previous posters > replies anymore how strange. pps using outlook express. You can always do it manually <g>. > > > How many batts do you need... > > > Depends on the equipment... > > yikes. the replacement batts for the sandisk fastrack are small compact > lithium ion cells. Weight would be negligable. Heed the adage: "80lbs of lightweight equipment ... is still 80lbs". Even small stuff adds up quickly. > The download times for the lexar 133 cards would be alot faster than > the 5 mins timed for my 3 year old bog standard jessops CF cards. One really needs to know where your system is bottlenecked before making broad claims. For some people, its the CF card; for others its the USB protocol, etc. The Hyperdrive HD80 I mentioned supports the CF+ standard (Revision 2.1) which at 16MB/sec, falls midway between the "Ultra II" 80x (12MB/s) and "Extreme III" 133x (20MB/s) transfer rates, which pragmatically means that it would take a 133x card to saturate it. Do keep in mind that Card-to-PC transfer rates currently cap out at a bit over 20MB/sec regardless of how much money & hardware you throw at it (Extreme IV cards on Firewire800 going to a RAID, etc). As such, the HD80's specs for 16MB/sec isn't at all shabby for it being a mere 0.6 pound (0.3kg) AA-battery powered device. > Simply downloading and not reviewing with several hours per charge > and batteries far smaller and lighter than the batts quoted for a 1ds mkii. Already assumed in my power consumption numbers (to which you said "yikes"). > 5000 per day is national geographic territory. they used > to shoot that much total in a month or two assignment. With digital, the paradigms have changed because the constraint of physically carrying and managing film has been lifted: versus my last couple of comparable "film SLR" trips, in going to digital, my rate of shutter clicks roughly tripled, despite the fact that I didn't feel as great of a need to bracket exposures. > if you are doing that per day you'd kill a 300D shutter within 10 days. > A 20D or 30D shutter in 2.5weeks. I don't know the ratings of a 1D. The 1D's shutter's guarenteed to 200,000 cycles. This is not the same that it "croaks" at 200,001: what it means is that it is guarenteed to go this far, which means that from an engineering design standpoint, they expect it to last longer than this 95% of the time. > Sounds suspciously like bollocks to me. One thing that I've learned over the years is to not disregard the stated performance requirements of people who clearly know what they're doing. Similarly, it is also easy to misinterpret and/or misstate performance requirements: it very well might be that the need is to have 5000 images worth of storage & power between availability of power, which is not to say that it has to be all shot in but a single day. Its a good example of why its good to ask good follow-up questions rather than to simplistically assume things. > > > There is also backpacks > > > with built in solar panels for £200. Charge while you walk. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not a problem in sahara. neither is the orientation. I'll keep that in mind the next time I go to the Saraha. Now how about the weather in London? Besides, even a "flat horizontal" orientation nails you for roughly a 30% loss because of the hourly angle change of the sun: this is why the prime hours for solar power collection are typically considered to be 10AM - 3PM (only 5 hours). Any time that your panel isn't 100% normal to the sun, you're incurring a loss. > Slightly more efficient these days than earlier panels. For commercial applications, efficiency is up to 15%. The better stuff is still in the labs and years off. > > ... now looking at human-based power, such as thermal > > converters and pizeoelectric boot heels. > > coo never thought of that. Little nephew has light up heels on his shoes. > Lot of mileage before you could charge up a 1D powerpack though. Each potential approach has to be carefully considered. In addition to basic questions of its efficiency and cost, the application may not be well suited to it. For example, a system based on energy harvesting from walking isn't going to be of much benefit to a photographer who's planning on being immobile in a hide (blind) for hours. -hh ian wrote: > Can't beat lithium polymer then. >Agreed; Li-Ion has roughly 5x the power density of a lead acid battery, w>hich funtionally translates to 1/5th the weight. > p.s my newsreader for some reason isn't putting the > into previous > posters > replies anymore how strange. pps using outlook express. >You can always do it manually <g>. only problem is when it comes to not only the most recent reply but putting an extra> in for the previous reply too. Found the correct tick box and already ticked. checked it again and clicked apply still not behaving itself. I wonder if its a failed patch update or a new bastard virus > > > How many batts do you need... > > > Depends on the equipment... > > yikes. the replacement batts for the sandisk fastrack are small compact > lithium ion cells. Weight would be negligable. Heed the adage: "80lbs of lightweight equipment ... is still 80lbs". Even small stuff adds up quickly. If you were already carrying the shed load of 1D batteries you simply wouldn't notice those 2x tiny lithium ion packs bugger all. 2x bugger all is still pretty much bugger all. > The download times for the lexar 133 cards would be alot faster than > the 5 mins timed for my 3 year old bog standard jessops CF cards. One really needs to know where your system is bottlenecked before making broad claims. For some people, its the CF card; for others its the USB protocol, etc. It told you the card is a slow one. As for the drive itself it is usb 2.0. connected to a pc it is damn fast. The card reader is built into the side so i don't know what the interface is i would presume card bus or pcmcia. The Hyperdrive HD80 I mentioned supports the CF+ standard (Revision 2.1) which at 16MB/sec, falls midway between the "Ultra II" 80x (12MB/s) and "Extreme III" 133x (20MB/s) transfer rates, which pragmatically means that it would take a 133x card to saturate it. Do keep in mind that Card-to-PC transfer rates currently cap out at a bit over 20MB/sec regardless of how much money & hardware you throw at it (Extreme IV cards on Firewire800 going to a RAID, etc). As such, the HD80's specs for 16MB/sec isn't at all shabby for it being a mere 0.6 pound (0.3kg) AA-battery powered device. > Simply downloading and not reviewing with several hours per charge > and batteries far smaller and lighter than the batts quoted for a 1ds > mkii. Already assumed in my power consumption numbers (to which you said "yikes"). not sure of your point here. > 5000 per day is national geographic territory. they used > to shoot that much total in a month or two assignment. With digital, the paradigms have changed because the constraint of physically carrying and managing film has been lifted: versus my last couple of comparable "film SLR" trips, in going to digital, my rate of shutter clicks roughly tripled, despite the fact that I didn't feel as great of a need to bracket exposures. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. 5000 per trip is sufficient. 5000 per day is Obessive Compulsive Disorder. I'm not sure which category you are in. > if you are doing that per day you'd kill a 300D shutter within 10 days. > A 20D or 30D shutter in 2.5weeks. I don't know the ratings of a 1D. The 1D's shutter's guarenteed to 200,000 cycles. This is not the same that it "croaks" at 200,001: what it means is that it is guarenteed to go this far, which means that from an engineering design standpoint, they expect it to last longer than this 95% of the time. > Sounds suspciously like bollocks to me. One thing that I've learned over the years is to not disregard the stated performance requirements of people who clearly know what they're doing. Clearly? More likely think they know what they are doing. Sounds very much the machine gun approach to photography. If you take enough one will be good. Similarly, it is also easy to misinterpret and/or misstate performance requirements: it very well might be that the need is to have 5000 images worth of storage & power between availability of power, which is not to say that it has to be all shot in but a single day. Which would suggest a seriously remote location. Loin cloth and spears time. Its a good example of why its good to ask good follow-up questions rather than to simplistically assume things. Sahra desert came up in this thread. Also rain forests and having loads of porters carrying the leal limit on their heads. > > > There is also backpacks > > > with built in solar panels for £200. Charge while you walk. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not a problem in sahara. neither is the orientation. I'll keep that in mind the next time I go to the Saraha. Now how about the weather in London? Not a problem. lots of power in london. Best to keep your retorts in perspective. Having worked in a camera shop i can tell you that tourists coming in and buying single use batteries or even asking the proprietor to charge it for you isn't out of the question. Also had customer buy universal charger. go back to hotel, charge battery (forgot his charger) then brought it back when finished under the satisfaction or money back guarantee. Besides, even a "flat horizontal" orientation nails you for roughly a 30% loss because of the hourly angle change of the sun: this is why the prime hours for solar power collection are typically considered to be 10AM - 3PM (only 5 hours). Any time that your panel isn't 100% normal to the sun, you're incurring a loss. 5hours would be sufficient to re energise your hard drive. > Slightly more efficient these days than earlier panels. For commercial applications, efficiency is up to 15%. The better stuff is still in the labs and years off. > > ... now looking at human-based power, such as thermal > > converters and pizeoelectric boot heels. > > coo never thought of that. Little nephew has light up heels on his shoes. > Lot of mileage before you could charge up a 1D powerpack though. Each potential approach has to be carefully considered. In addition to basic questions of its efficiency and cost, the application may not be well suited to it. For example, a system based on energy harvesting from walking isn't going to be of much benefit to a photographer who's planning on being immobile in a hide (blind) for hours. Marching on foot that far away from a car equals lots of charge time. All in all this thread has wondered far too far and the what ifs are getting plain silly. > Just because you can doesn't mean you should. 5000 per trip is sufficient. > 5000 per day is Obessive Compulsive Disorder. I'm not sure which category > you are in. It all depends on opportunity. For example, one time in Alaska, I had 3 mother grizzly bears at close range, each with 2 to 3 cubs, all doing action at the same time. It was like Oh Wow! get that one. Oh Wow, look at that one, Incredible! now look at that! All in great light, for hours. http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bear I have hundreds more like the ones on that page (thousands shot, but perhaps 500 really good ones). I could have gotten more, but I had to conserve due to only having 12 GBytes of compact flash with me, offloading to a laptop occasionally. I also lost some shots due to cards not writing fast enough. That limit will not happen again for me. My next big trip is to Africa, where I'll have the 133x cards. Try a two week trip to a remote region. If doing mosaics that take 50 to 70 frames per image, 5000 images gives less than 100 scenes. http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/large_mosaics > Clearly? More likely think they know what they are doing. Sounds very much > the machine gun approach to photography. If you take enough one will be > good. See above. Two different cases, 1) wildlife action, and 2) large mosaics that use up a lot of frames. I do both. > 5hours would be sufficient to re energise your hard drive. When on site, I would rather not be working/worrying about charging batteries for 5 hours, but moving locations and photographing. I have been in situations where that was required and I find it limiting. Best time to charge batteries in my opinion is when you are sleeping. Roger > > Just because you can doesn't mean you should. 5000 per trip is sufficient. > > 5000 per day is Obessive Compulsive Disorder. I'm not sure which category [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all doing action at the same time. It was like Oh Wow! ... > http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bear That's what makes the big bucks we lay out for a trip worth it (BTW, I've always enjoyed that gallery on the bears) The only reason to try to conserve film at this point is because one is getting low on film, either because the trip greatly exceeded expectations, or we didn't plan well enough. The trip is a sunk cost, already paid for both in time & money, and the cost of film is generally a small fraction of the cost of the trip: if we are spending $10K to go to another continent, the difference between 50 rolls of film and 100 rolls is only 5%. >My next big trip is to Africa, where I'll have the 133x cards. > ... > When on site, I would rather not be working/worrying about charging > batteries for 5 hours, but moving locations and photographing. The jeep rides can get pretty rough (and dusty): its generally a good idea to minimize ones 'sensitive electronics' exposure to it. Laptops with CD drives are particularly vulnerable to problems...I know people who have gone to Iraq, and their feedback is that for a laptop that gets carried around, its CD drive typically only lasts around a month before it mechanically fails; USB Thumb drives are preferred. > I have been in situations where that was required and > I find it limiting. Best time to charge batteries in my > opinion is when you are sleeping. I searched for any mention of your itinerary, but didn't see any posts on it. For the camps I went to in Tanzania (Mikumi, Mufindi, Katavi, Ruaha), I never had overnight power: it was always shut down by 10:30pm. To maximize charging time, it was "get on the charger before showering or going down for dinner". -hh > car battery not the car. crop clips onto terminals use the ciggy adapter > for your stuff. A Honda 1000W generator is a lot lighter than a car battery and will provide a lot more W-h. But, really, more memory (CF cards) is the way to go. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >>> Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal >>> on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Roger I found a card reader with a 30 gig hard disk backup on eBay for under $100. The site had them with over a hundred gig. It can't view the pictures, but it does a good job of transferring them. If the cards don't have to be in 10 different places at once, I'd go with two or three memory cards and something like that. >> What's a bunch? If you're talking multiple of ten you should talk to >> Cameta [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'll go with that. Good deal, but that's about average price without any rebates or incentives. I would still call Cameta and see what they will do for you since they will always have the better price since there's lots of room on this item... Rita > Hi > Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Roger In the overall scheme of things, the sale of 10 cards to B&H or another large retailer is hardly a volume sale. I suspect B&H sells many more cards than that on a given day. It may be a big sale to a local store, but it probably won't affect his cost from his supplier. . SignatureJim <jen....not....home..remvdots...@....yahoo > Hi > Anyone know of a store that will give a better deal > on buying a bunch of compact flash cards? > In particular, I'm looking to buy at least ten 4-gigabyte > lexar 133x cards. you know the average ebay dealer sells the cards at almost cost and make their money from the markup on the shipping. |
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