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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006

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D200 owners, pls. do this test for me (and yourselves)

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noone@nospam.com - 01 Sep 2006 13:31 GMT
Hi all,

I tried sending this beofre but I never saw it appear. Apologies if this is
a double post.

I've had my D200 for about eight months now. I love it, but it has been
plagued with a number of sensor problems.

First was the long banding. That was fixed (I believe they replaced the
sensor, although the service report only said "tiny parts replaced"). Then
pixels started dying. First there were three; a month later I noticed about
20 new ones--in some situations the small white crosses turned into red and
blue squares. Now a month later I am noticing some new ones.

But the big surprise came when I tried to do a long exposure (~3 minutes) of
the African night sky. On viewing the four corners and top edge of the frame
bloomed with pink luminosity, looking something like light-struck film. In
addition there were scores of seemingly-dead pixels speckling the whole
frame in white, red and blue. But these pixels were not dead, in shorter
exposures they behaved normally, but as the exposure time increased more and
more of them blew out. Likewise the pink blooming was undetectable at under
30 secs., becoming progressively worse as trhe exposure time increased.

Obviously the camer is going back to Nikon, but I am actually very curious
about whether these are common defects. They only became apparent in my case
in rather rare shooting conditions (long exposures). If anyone with a D200
is willing, I would ask you to do the following simple test: Put a body cap
on your camera and do a 3 minute exposure at ISO 1600 in a dark room (or put
an eyepiece cap on as well). If you have anything like the same problems as
mine they will be very obvious on preview--the blooming at full frame and
the pixel problems on either of the last two crop magnifications.

I would be very interested to hear what your experience is.

TIA,

Toby

please respond here or if you wish respond privately to kymarto (at-sign)
yahoo (dot) com
noone@nospam.com - 01 Sep 2006 13:50 GMT
On  1-Sep-2006,  wrote:

Sorry, found the original post and all the replies. Ignore this and
apologies.

Toby
Pete D - 01 Sep 2006 13:57 GMT
So do a recall on the message.

> On  1-Sep-2006,  wrote:
>
> Sorry, found the original post and all the replies. Ignore this and
> apologies.
>
> Toby
Don Wiss - 01 Sep 2006 23:38 GMT
>Sorry, found the original post and all the replies. Ignore this and
>apologies.

But Toby. Why not simply issue a cancel on the second one?

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Joe Makowiec - 02 Sep 2006 11:35 GMT
>>Sorry, found the original post and all the replies. Ignore this and
>>apologies.
>
> But Toby. Why not simply issue a cancel on the second one?

Even if he did, AIUI, most news servers ignore cancels.

Signature

Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe

Ahle Wutz - 07 Sep 2006 05:00 GMT
I don't have a D200 (yet) and can't comment on the blooming, but I do
have a D70 and I can tell you that the red, blue white pixels showing
up at 3 minutes / ISO 1600 are normal for every digital camera. This
is the noise and the difference in individual pixel sensitivity that
every sensor has and that starts showing on long exposures and higher
sensitivity. The blue/red pixels are so-called "hot pixels" (as
opposed to dead pixels). Pushing it to ISO 1600 means that your pixel
response is amplified more, which makes them show up brighter than
others  - about the same as cranking up your stereo to +20db without
an input signal. Even though you have a perfect stereo system, you
will still hear white noise at that setting!  3 minutes at 1600 is at
the extreme end of what the camera (and its sensor) can do.

The warmer it is, by the way, the more you will see that effect
(Africa!). Just for kicks, I recommend that you do the same with your
camera on a very cold day (read: in the refrigerator [inside a plastic
bag, of course, to avoid condensation - and leave it in there until
warmed up again]). You will likely notice much less of that noise
(semiconductors behave better at lower temperatures - in contrast to
your battery, though).

As for the dead pixels: 20+ sounds excessive and more showing up is
not a good quality sign. I think I will wait until the back-log is
diminished... However, Nikon has a feature to map the dead pixels,
which basically turns them off and interpolates between neighboring
pixels. That way, you at least don't have white spots showing up,
needing to be edited out.

Post-exposure noise reduction also helps, especially with the hot
pixels.

Good luck!

    AW

>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>please respond here or if you wish respond privately to kymarto (at-sign)
>yahoo (dot) com
DoN. Nichols - 07 Sep 2006 23:47 GMT
According to Ahle Wutz  <ahlewutz__at_yah_oo_dot__com>:

> I don't have a D200 (yet) and can't comment on the blooming, but I do
> have a D70 and I can tell you that the red, blue white pixels showing
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> will still hear white noise at that setting!  3 minutes at 1600 is at
> the extreme end of what the camera (and its sensor) can do.

    Indeed so -- but Nikon has a feature which can help with this.
On the D70, in the "Shooting Menu" (the one with an icon of a camera),
the second entry is called "Long Exp NR" -- and what it does is to
capture a second exposure of equal duration with the shutter closed, and
subtract that from the first one.  Of course, if you are running long
exposures, this doubles the time taken for each shot, so it is a bit of
a nuisance.  When shooting fireworks, I just live with the noise, and I
don't normally have the shutter open long enough for it to be a serious
problem anyway.  The main trick is finding a good time to close the
shutter, and then to re-open it for the next burst.

    I'm reasonably sure that the D200 should have the same feature --
but it may be elsewhere in the D200's menus.

    [ ... ]

> Post-exposure noise reduction also helps, especially with the hot
> pixels.

    As does the built-in noise reduction in the camera which I
mentioned above.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
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Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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Ahle Wutz - 08 Sep 2006 04:53 GMT
>> Post-exposure noise reduction also helps, especially with the hot
>> pixels.
>
>    As does the built-in noise reduction in the camera which I
>mentioned above.

That's what I meant - the second image with shutter closed is AFTER
(i.e. post) exposure........  ;-)

    AW
 
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