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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006

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New Sigma DSLR coming

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RichA - 29 Aug 2006 23:33 GMT
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp
Randall Ainsworth - 30 Aug 2006 02:38 GMT
Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but
you'd have something).
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 30 Aug 2006 02:47 GMT
> Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one,
> but
> you'd have something).

Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least
see the results of the new Sigma.
SkipM - 30 Aug 2006 00:56 GMT
>> Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but
>> you'd have something).
>
> Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least see
> the results of the new Sigma.

hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is
putting all their eggs in the resolution/sensor basket, since they ask if
you could have "fundamentally better technology, would you settle for added
improved functions, instead?"  That reads, to me, like the camera will have
what Sigma considers a killer sensor, but will be relatively de-contented.
Also, looking at the brief glimpses of images they show, it lacks the AA
filter as did its predecessors, and it still suffers from slightly yellowish
skin tones...
I'm wondering what actual resolution it will offer, if the 14 refers to the
actual pixel resolution, or Sigma/Foveon's pumped up number, 3x the actual.
Or if i'ts just a progression from the SD9/10...

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Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

David J Taylor - 30 Aug 2006 07:36 GMT
[]
> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is
> putting all their eggs in the resolution/sensor basket, since they
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> to the actual pixel resolution, or Sigma/Foveon's pumped up number,
> 3x the actual. Or if i'ts just a progression from the SD9/10...

14 MB advertised
 -> 13.51MP actual
   ->  4.5MP RGB pixel sites

Perhaps ??
SkipM - 30 Aug 2006 00:47 GMT
> []
>> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Perhaps ??

That's what I'm thinking.  Except I wouldn't call it 13.51 MP actual, I'd
say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites...  After all, working in
monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP.

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Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Albert Nurick - 30 Aug 2006 16:27 GMT
> > []
> > > hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> I'd say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites...  After all, working in
> monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP.

If so, it won't sell much.  Just like the other Sigma cameras.

It's amazing if they think the public will buy a no-name 4.5 MP DSLR in
2006.

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John McWilliams - 30 Aug 2006 23:13 GMT
>>> []
>>>> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> It's amazing if they think the public will buy a no-name 4.5 MP DSLR in
> 2006.

That's one reason it's likely it will be pushed out as a 13.5 MP camera,
if not by Sigma themselves, by unscrupulous retailers. Think marketing;
think consumers driven by high MP numbers alone, same as many computers
sold on clock speed alone. (Er, not by the mostly intelligent readership
here, of course.)

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John McWilliams

SkipM - 31 Aug 2006 00:21 GMT
>>>> []
>>>>> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> sold on clock speed alone. (Er, not by the mostly intelligent readership
> here, of course.)

Judging from the name, SD14, I'd say it's Sigma's intention to do so, no
matter what their retailers do...

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Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

RichA - 30 Aug 2006 17:40 GMT
> > []
> >> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites...  After all, working in
> monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP.

Well, if the resolution of the 9 and 10 were the equivalent of a 6 meg
camera,
then this one if proportional will be like a 9 meg.
SkipM - 31 Aug 2006 00:23 GMT
>> > []
>> >> hmmm, interesting.  Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> camera,
> then this one if proportional will be like a 9 meg.

Except that they weren't, really.  Because of the lack of an AA filter, they
resolved nearly as much detail as a 6mp camera with an AA filter, but you
lost a lot of that in the processing.  And, even if it did, all of the
competitors, save for the Canon 30D (which may be on life support...) have
moved on to true 10mp or more.

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Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Michael Schnell - 01 Sep 2006 21:05 GMT
> That's what I'm thinking.  Except I wouldn't call it 13.51 MP actual, I'd
> say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites...  After all, working in
> monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP.

A decent camera should output JP2 as it's native format. So you can
choose a random pixel count when displaying. The marketing people could
 claim this is infinite pixel count <g>.
Randall Ainsworth - 30 Aug 2006 03:58 GMT
> Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least
> see the results of the new Sigma.

As you know, I've watched Sigma for many years. I know the kind of
products that they produce, and this will be another cluster.
RichA - 30 Aug 2006 12:14 GMT
> Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but
> you'd have something).

I'll buy it if you "buy the farm."
Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:23 GMT
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp

You know you're 100% weak-sauce, don't you.  ROFLMAO, is that a snap
button I see on the side?? On the bright side, at least it's black.

<http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=sigma_forum&page=1&sn1=&sid1=&div
page=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=25
327>

Signature

Slack

Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:40 GMT
http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=sigma_forum&page=1&sn1=&sid1=&divp
age=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=253
27
Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:51 GMT
http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v

:-)
frederick - 30 Aug 2006 05:47 GMT
> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v

try this then:
http://tinyurl.com/q3734

"The detailed [su] peck the whole man heirloom your bedspread which
still is announced."
Makes sense to me.
Charles - 30 Aug 2006 06:09 GMT
>> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>still is announced."
>Makes sense to me.

The translation didn't help all that much.
John McWilliams - 30 Aug 2006 06:27 GMT
>> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> still is announced."
> Makes sense to me.

More on the bedspread....

"The reed wool ocean or the bay [tum] the bird considerably to be good
is step.
It does not appear to be following in steps the reed of existing it is not.

The bedspread where the memory slot is not visible.
Will use SD, the possibility which memories the boy your bedspread."

I don't even want to know what the last sentence is about...

Signature

John McWilliams

BobF@nospam.com - 31 Aug 2006 02:24 GMT
>> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>still is announced."
>Makes sense to me.

He goes on to say:

"It comes out suddenly to be yellow, pit-a-pat"

I think he is implying that it is a pissy camera...
jhthurman - 31 Aug 2006 16:26 GMT
I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the
religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives.

Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10
and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually
captured a better image than either the Nikon or Canon....it will be
interesting to see what the SD14 is capable of.

SD10: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/sigma_sd10_samples.html

D200: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/d200_samples.html

30D: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/30D_samples.html

A good comparison is the red brick building shots...look at the details and
color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the
dumpster....

>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> page=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=25
> 327>
Bill - 31 Aug 2006 22:58 GMT
>I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the
>religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives.

I am.

(yes that's a Canadian joke)

>Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10
>and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the
>dumpster....

The SD10 performed quite well.

But the problem with samples is they are not controlled and taken under
the same conditions.

The images all have different quality lenses - SD10 used a 50mm prime,
the Canon 24-105, and the Nikon 18-200.

The time of day, focal length, and exposure is different for each
camera, which greatly affects resolution of fine detail like the numbers
on the dumpster, as does JPG compression which varied greatly.

It should be noted that the SD10 had very little or no compression in
its JPG, while the other two had significant compression (check the file
sizes), so sharpness can't be argued.

Most of the shots are taken using auto mode, so there is little control
over the saturation and sharpness to balance the shots for comparison,
so colour rendition can't be argued.

I'm not saying the SD10 is bad, but these are just sample images, not a
controlled comparison. If all three had been shot from the same location
using a 50mm prime on each camera, converted from raw using low
compression, the results would be quite different.

I won't bother going into features and ergonomics.

Oh, and even when it comes to "side-by-side" comparisons, Steve needs to
learn some basics. If you're comparing camera bodies, you use the same
lenses from each brand, traditionally a 50mm prime. Otherwise you're
more closely comparing lenses, not cameras.
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 01 Sep 2006 13:21 GMT
> I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the
> religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives.
Yes.  Some of us.

> Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10
> and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually
> captured a better image than either the Nikon or Canon....
In what respect, just pixel-pixel sharpness?  How about dynamic range,
high ISO, flesh tone accuracy?  What is your opinion of the two shots
in that series that contain skintones?

The drop on over to Sigma's SD-14 website (http://www.sigma-sd14.com/):
Do a screen grab and catch the girl's face that is flicked up ever so
briefly....
What do *you* think of that?  Granted, it's just a screengrab from a
Flash presentation, but do you think it portends well for this camera?
Even taking the above into account - it's *bloody awful*!!

Here are some comments I made elsewhere - I'll be interested to hear
yours:
The girl's skin colour isn't *too* bad, but it shows a bit of that ugly
yellow/orange tinge imo.  It has other very serious problems, including
noise where it shouldn't be - look into her eye 'whites' and the
midtones - yuch!!, and a lot of 'pepper grains' plus (or perhaps
because of) ridiculous over-sharpening.  On further inspection, the
image also shows some strange fine banding in various areas, eg along
the shadow of her nose, also above the i and the v of 'believe'.  Maybe
it's just an ad agencies over-processing, but it doesn't augur well.

>it will be
> interesting to see what the SD14 is capable of.
IF they (Sigma) have fixed the non-linear colour (esp jaundiced skin
tones), the poor high ISO performance (which produces even *more*
non-linear colour and objectionable noise), and IF they fitted the
camera with a few modern features, like IS and/or sensor cleaning, I
might get vaguely interested too, but it's not looking good so far..
I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, though.

> A good comparison is the red brick building shots...look at the details and
> color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the
> dumpster....

Well, yes, it's a good comparison if resolution is your only critieria
and you shoot a lot of red buildings, a/c's and dumpsters...  I don't
think many people dispute that the Sigma performs better *per pixel*
than a bayer, strictly in terms of direct comparison of resolution
*only*.  But resolution isn't the thing that effectively meant the old
Sigma's were not regarded highly.  Color fidelity, dynamic range and
noise are the problems.

Oh, and a proprietary lens mount that no-one else is interested in,
and..

(O;
 
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