Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / September 2006
New Sigma DSLR coming
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RichA - 29 Aug 2006 23:33 GMT http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp
Randall Ainsworth - 30 Aug 2006 02:38 GMT Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but you'd have something).
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 30 Aug 2006 02:47 GMT > Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, > but > you'd have something). Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least see the results of the new Sigma.
SkipM - 30 Aug 2006 00:56 GMT >> Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but >> you'd have something). > > Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least see > the results of the new Sigma. hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is putting all their eggs in the resolution/sensor basket, since they ask if you could have "fundamentally better technology, would you settle for added improved functions, instead?" That reads, to me, like the camera will have what Sigma considers a killer sensor, but will be relatively de-contented. Also, looking at the brief glimpses of images they show, it lacks the AA filter as did its predecessors, and it still suffers from slightly yellowish skin tones... I'm wondering what actual resolution it will offer, if the 14 refers to the actual pixel resolution, or Sigma/Foveon's pumped up number, 3x the actual. Or if i'ts just a progression from the SD9/10...
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
David J Taylor - 30 Aug 2006 07:36 GMT []
> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is > putting all their eggs in the resolution/sensor basket, since they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > to the actual pixel resolution, or Sigma/Foveon's pumped up number, > 3x the actual. Or if i'ts just a progression from the SD9/10... 14 MB advertised -> 13.51MP actual -> 4.5MP RGB pixel sites
Perhaps ??
SkipM - 30 Aug 2006 00:47 GMT > [] >> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Perhaps ?? That's what I'm thinking. Except I wouldn't call it 13.51 MP actual, I'd say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites... After all, working in monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP.
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Albert Nurick - 30 Aug 2006 16:27 GMT > > [] > > > hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I'd say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites... After all, working in > monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP. If so, it won't sell much. Just like the other Sigma cameras.
It's amazing if they think the public will buy a no-name 4.5 MP DSLR in 2006.
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John McWilliams - 30 Aug 2006 23:13 GMT >>> [] >>>> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > It's amazing if they think the public will buy a no-name 4.5 MP DSLR in > 2006. That's one reason it's likely it will be pushed out as a 13.5 MP camera, if not by Sigma themselves, by unscrupulous retailers. Think marketing; think consumers driven by high MP numbers alone, same as many computers sold on clock speed alone. (Er, not by the mostly intelligent readership here, of course.)
 Signature John McWilliams
SkipM - 31 Aug 2006 00:21 GMT >>>> [] >>>>> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > sold on clock speed alone. (Er, not by the mostly intelligent readership > here, of course.) Judging from the name, SD14, I'd say it's Sigma's intention to do so, no matter what their retailers do...
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
RichA - 30 Aug 2006 17:40 GMT > > [] > >> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites... After all, working in > monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP. Well, if the resolution of the 9 and 10 were the equivalent of a 6 meg camera, then this one if proportional will be like a 9 meg.
SkipM - 31 Aug 2006 00:23 GMT >> > [] >> >> hmmm, interesting. Reading between the lines, it looks like Sigma is [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > camera, > then this one if proportional will be like a 9 meg. Except that they weren't, really. Because of the lack of an AA filter, they resolved nearly as much detail as a 6mp camera with an AA filter, but you lost a lot of that in the processing. And, even if it did, all of the competitors, save for the Canon 30D (which may be on life support...) have moved on to true 10mp or more.
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Michael Schnell - 01 Sep 2006 21:05 GMT > That's what I'm thinking. Except I wouldn't call it 13.51 MP actual, I'd > say 4.5 MP actual, 13.51 MP color sites... After all, working in > monochrome, that would only be 4.5 MP. A decent camera should output JP2 as it's native format. So you can choose a random pixel count when displaying. The marketing people could claim this is infinite pixel count <g>.
Randall Ainsworth - 30 Aug 2006 03:58 GMT > Now Randall, certainly you could reserve judgment until you at least > see the results of the new Sigma. As you know, I've watched Sigma for many years. I know the kind of products that they produce, and this will be another cluster.
RichA - 30 Aug 2006 12:14 GMT > Buy it. At least then you'd actually own a camera (not much of one, but > you'd have something). I'll buy it if you "buy the farm."
Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:23 GMT > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp You know you're 100% weak-sauce, don't you. ROFLMAO, is that a snap button I see on the side?? On the bright side, at least it's black.
<http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=sigma_forum&page=1&sn1=&sid1=&div page=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=25 327>
 Signature Slack
Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:40 GMT http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=sigma_forum&page=1&sn1=&sid1=&divp age=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=253 27
Slack - 30 Aug 2006 04:51 GMT http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v
:-) frederick - 30 Aug 2006 05:47 GMT > http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v try this then: http://tinyurl.com/q3734
"The detailed [su] peck the whole man heirloom your bedspread which still is announced." Makes sense to me.
Charles - 30 Aug 2006 06:09 GMT >> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >still is announced." >Makes sense to me. The translation didn't help all that much.
John McWilliams - 30 Aug 2006 06:27 GMT >> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > still is announced." > Makes sense to me. More on the bedspread....
"The reed wool ocean or the bay [tum] the bird considerably to be good is step. It does not appear to be following in steps the reed of existing it is not.
The bedspread where the memory slot is not visible. Will use SD, the possibility which memories the boy your bedspread."
I don't even want to know what the last sentence is about...
 Signature John McWilliams
BobF@nospam.com - 31 Aug 2006 02:24 GMT >> http://tinyurl.com/rzp6v >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >still is announced." >Makes sense to me. He goes on to say:
"It comes out suddenly to be yellow, pit-a-pat"
I think he is implying that it is a pissy camera...
jhthurman - 31 Aug 2006 16:26 GMT I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives.
Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10 and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually captured a better image than either the Nikon or Canon....it will be interesting to see what the SD14 is capable of.
SD10: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/sigma_sd10_samples.html
D200: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/d200_samples.html
30D: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/30D_samples.html
A good comparison is the red brick building shots...look at the details and color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the dumpster....
>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082901sigmasd14.asp > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > page=5&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=25 > 327> Bill - 31 Aug 2006 22:58 GMT >I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the >religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives. I am.
(yes that's a Canadian joke)
>Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10 >and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the >dumpster.... The SD10 performed quite well.
But the problem with samples is they are not controlled and taken under the same conditions.
The images all have different quality lenses - SD10 used a 50mm prime, the Canon 24-105, and the Nikon 18-200.
The time of day, focal length, and exposure is different for each camera, which greatly affects resolution of fine detail like the numbers on the dumpster, as does JPG compression which varied greatly.
It should be noted that the SD10 had very little or no compression in its JPG, while the other two had significant compression (check the file sizes), so sharpness can't be argued.
Most of the shots are taken using auto mode, so there is little control over the saturation and sharpness to balance the shots for comparison, so colour rendition can't be argued.
I'm not saying the SD10 is bad, but these are just sample images, not a controlled comparison. If all three had been shot from the same location using a 50mm prime on each camera, converted from raw using low compression, the results would be quite different.
I won't bother going into features and ergonomics.
Oh, and even when it comes to "side-by-side" comparisons, Steve needs to learn some basics. If you're comparing camera bodies, you use the same lenses from each brand, traditionally a 50mm prime. Otherwise you're more closely comparing lenses, not cameras.
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 01 Sep 2006 13:21 GMT > I assume this group is interested in making pictures, not focusing on the > religion and politics of camera manufacturers and marketing imperatives. Yes. Some of us.
> Well, I went out to Steve's and looked at the sample pictures off the SD10 > and compared them to the D200 and Canon 30D...the older SD10 actually > captured a better image than either the Nikon or Canon.... In what respect, just pixel-pixel sharpness? How about dynamic range, high ISO, flesh tone accuracy? What is your opinion of the two shots in that series that contain skintones?
The drop on over to Sigma's SD-14 website (http://www.sigma-sd14.com/): Do a screen grab and catch the girl's face that is flicked up ever so briefly.... What do *you* think of that? Granted, it's just a screengrab from a Flash presentation, but do you think it portends well for this camera? Even taking the above into account - it's *bloody awful*!!
Here are some comments I made elsewhere - I'll be interested to hear yours: The girl's skin colour isn't *too* bad, but it shows a bit of that ugly yellow/orange tinge imo. It has other very serious problems, including noise where it shouldn't be - look into her eye 'whites' and the midtones - yuch!!, and a lot of 'pepper grains' plus (or perhaps because of) ridiculous over-sharpening. On further inspection, the image also shows some strange fine banding in various areas, eg along the shadow of her nose, also above the i and the v of 'believe'. Maybe it's just an ad agencies over-processing, but it doesn't augur well.
>it will be > interesting to see what the SD14 is capable of. IF they (Sigma) have fixed the non-linear colour (esp jaundiced skin tones), the poor high ISO performance (which produces even *more* non-linear colour and objectionable noise), and IF they fitted the camera with a few modern features, like IS and/or sensor cleaning, I might get vaguely interested too, but it's not looking good so far.. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, though.
> A good comparison is the red brick building shots...look at the details and > color around the roof, the upper A/C units and the numbers on the > dumpster.... Well, yes, it's a good comparison if resolution is your only critieria and you shoot a lot of red buildings, a/c's and dumpsters... I don't think many people dispute that the Sigma performs better *per pixel* than a bayer, strictly in terms of direct comparison of resolution *only*. But resolution isn't the thing that effectively meant the old Sigma's were not regarded highly. Color fidelity, dynamic range and noise are the problems.
Oh, and a proprietary lens mount that no-one else is interested in, and..
(O;
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