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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006Canon 400D; Crow-eating time for some
Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some people, enough so Canon made the logical move to this. > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > people, enough so > Canon made the logical move to this. Who the heck are you talking to about eating crow??? -Fighting those windmills again, Rich?  SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > people, enough so > > Canon made the logical move to this. > > Who the heck are you talking to about eating crow??? > -Fighting those windmills again, Rich? Think of all those people who ranted about how simple it was to clone out dust spots on images, who didn't blanch at having to pay $40 or more for special q-tips to sensor clean with. Some even claimed dust never showed up in their images. Now, believing that, Canon's new cleaning system (to them) has no value, right? Mark² (lowest even number here) wrote: > RichA wrote: > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Who the heck are you talking to about eating crow??? > -Fighting those windmills again, Rich? >Think of all those people who ranted about how simple it was to clone >out dust spots on images, who didn't blanch at having to pay $40 or >more for special q-tips to sensor clean with. Some even claimed dust >never showed up in their images. Now, believing that, Canon's new >cleaning system (to them) has no value, right? It has a great deal of value, from a marketing standpoint... And, speaking of eating crow, Rich, how about your disappointment in Photokina? And your statements that Canon is falling behind? I have a feeling you'll be eating crow in the "market share" category, too. This camera looks like a category killer, to me. It may cannibalize some sales, in fact considerable sales, from the 30D, but that indicates that Canon has a followup to that camera in the wings. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com >>> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >>> people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > never showed up in their images. Now, believing that, Canon's new > cleaning system (to them) has no value, right? I don't recall hearing such people claiming it was no problem, etc.. I wouldn't fault anyone who HASN'T had dust for saying so. Many people don't have a problem. I actually only found my first dust speck on my 10D more than a year after shooting with it...but it certainly is a problem I'd welcome an alternative solution for. I have yet to find my first dust speck on my 5D's sensor, which is surprising--considering all the talk I heard of problems. Maybe I'm just lucky so far. As for me, I'd welcome anything that cuts the occasional dust speck to an even less occasional issue. It is certainly annoying to discover the same blob on a large series of pictures... Not all spots can be easily cloned. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > never showed up in their images. Now, believing that, Canon's new > cleaning system (to them) has no value, right? Got anybody in mind? One thing I have noticed: my D70 required constant cleaning, yet the D200 has never had even one dust spot, even though I change lenses with it probably even more frequently than before. I cannot explain why. >> > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >> > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > D200 has never had even one dust spot, even though I change lenses with > it probably even more frequently than before. I cannot explain why. Maybe you take dirty pictures with you D70 and not with you D200? ;-) SignatureJørn Dahl-Stamnes http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/ > > > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > D200 has never had even one dust spot, even though I change lenses with > it probably even more frequently than before. I cannot explain why. No idea. Sensor repells it? But I think the consensus is that dust is an issue. If it weren't it simply would have have gotten the attention is has. It should be interesting to see if the Canon system works like the Olympus system or the Sony system. > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > people, enough so > Canon made the logical move to this. Ummm, you know marketing is more important than actual usefulness, right? Oh, that's right, you wouldn't know whether dust removal works or not because YOU DON'T OWN A DSLR!!! Greg Signature"All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > people, enough so > Canon made the logical move to this. So what about spot metering then? Doc >> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >> people, enough so >> Canon made the logical move to this. > > So what about spot metering then? What about it? You do understand that no company is going to add every feature to their low to mid-range products? That camera companies are also profit based? That the absence of spot metering can be overcome in lots of ways, and is immensely important to a few thousand folks.....? SignatureOr are you merely trolling? Have a nice day! lsmft >>> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >>> people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > That the absence of spot metering can be overcome in lots of ways, and is > immensely important to a few thousand folks.....? I note that some companies do have most of these features in their lower end cameras, mostly it is Canon that does not. >>>> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >>>> people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I note that some companies do have most of these features in their > lower end cameras, mostly it is Canon that does not. That a legitimate gripe. It wasn't until I bought my 5D that I FINALLY had spot metering again. Sheesh... SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >> I note that some companies do have most of these features in their >> lower end cameras, mostly it is Canon that does not. > > That a legitimate gripe. > It wasn't until I bought my 5D that I FINALLY had spot metering again. > Sheesh... Considering both the Nilon D50 and the Pentax DS (and DL/DS2/DL2/K100D/K110D) have spot metering it is a bit naughty of Canon to leave it out even on some higher models really. There are are features such as Mirror Lock Up (what were Canon thinking), missing from some as well, cable release from others (what were Nikon thinking), happily my Pentax has them all. :-)))))))) Looking forward to the new 10MP model, if they incorporate all the new and improved features from the K100D I will certainly get one. >>> I note that some companies do have most of these features in their >>> lower end cameras, mostly it is Canon that does not. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to the new 10MP model, if they incorporate all the new and improved > features from the K100D I will certainly get one. Ya, that's my other gripe with Canon. They still a great big DIRECT PRINT (!!!???) button on the back of a friggin $3K 5D (as though ANY person serious enough to buy a 5D would print directly from the camera), and yet they STILL bury mirror lock-up in a custom function menu!!!! Come ONNNN Canon!!!! That's just STOOOOOPID!!!!! There. OK... I'm calm again... ;) SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson Here's a question: Where does the dust go? (Kinda like in that movie Envy with Jack Black. Only, they used another 4-letter word (We wanna know, where does the s*** go?)). Kevin > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > people, enough so > Canon made the logical move to this. Sticky strip on the sideor bottom that we assume holds its stickiness for a long time. > Here's a question: Where does the dust go? (Kinda like in that movie > Envy with Jack Black. Only, they used another 4-letter word (We wanna [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> people, enough so >> Canon made the logical move to this. > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > people, enough so > Canon made the logical move to this. I'll be interested to see how well it works before declaring it a 'logical move'. Mark > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mark Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover until the last possible moment is a good thing. If it works, as you said. > > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover until > the last possible moment is a good thing. Hogwash. We are not exactly swamped with reports of damaged sensors here, are we? >>>> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >>>> people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > We are not exactly swamped with reports of damaged sensors here, are > we? No...but it's a real pain in the arse to clean them. I'd be happy to have something that makes regular cleaning less "regular." Personally, I don't have a huge issue with dust. My 10D seems to develop it but not my 5D. Maybe its because my 10D has a few years worth of dust rattling around its inards where my 5D is playing catch-up... -Mark² SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >>> Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover until >>> the last possible moment is a good thing. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >No...but it's a real pain in the arse to clean them. A pain? What's so hard about it? You hit the menu item to open the shutter, blow the sensor with a bulb a few times, and you're done. For more severe dirt, a swipe with a nylon brush, and you're done. This fascination with getting a sensor 100% spotless with pec pads and eclipse fluid while sitting in a clean room wearing a hairnet and mask, is ridiculous. No matter how clean you get the sensor, it'll always get dirty again. So instead of struggling to get it and keep it perfect, just get it nearly perfect and shoot some frames. Most of the time the tiny amount of dust won't be visible anyway. If you know you're going to be stopping down a lot, then give it a good cleaning. But once it's clean, keeping it clean is quite easy and certainly not a "pain". >>>> Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover >>>> until the last possible moment is a good thing. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > cleaning. But once it's clean, keeping it clean is quite easy and > certainly not a "pain". YMMV. -I think it's a pain. If you don't...good for you. It's not just that cleaning it is difficult. Part of what makes it a "pain" is not realizing you even HAVE a dust problem until it's too late--that is--AFTER you notice on your computer screen, meaning AFTER you're done shooting for the session. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust spots recorded by a sensor. This does not eliminated the need for cleaning the sensor, but can reduce the impact of sensor dust by taking the dust reference image before shooting a series of images. > >>>> Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover > >>>> until the last possible moment is a good thing. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: > www.pbase.com/markuson Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust spots recorded by a sensor. This does not eliminated the need for cleaning the sensor, but can reduce the impact of sensor dust by taking the dust reference image before shooting a series of images. > >>>> Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover > >>>> until the last possible moment is a good thing. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: > www.pbase.com/markuson > Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the > RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust spots > recorded by a sensor. This does not eliminated the need for cleaning > the sensor, but can reduce the impact of sensor dust by taking the > dust reference image before shooting a series of images. The only one I know of is it new 400D...which isn't yet available. Others? >>>>>> Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover >>>>>> until the last possible moment is a good thing. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: >> www.pbase.com/markuson SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson Nikon starting with the release of the D70 on has provided this feature. It is even available the D50. It requires taking the reference photo and using their paid for picture editor, Capture. > > Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the > > RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust spots [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: > www.pbase.com/markuson >> Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the >> RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust spots [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The only one I know of is it new 400D...which isn't yet available. >Others? I guess you haven't heard about this, but it's not a new thing. All of the current Nikon bodies have it, and it's been there since at least the D1x or about five years. I think Olympus has it, and probably others. I haven't tried it yet, but now I might just to see how it works. >>> Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with the >>> RAW image format and right software can remove most of the dust [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I haven't tried it yet, but now I might just to see how it works. I don't see any reason why camera manufacturers couldn't add this via software...since it doesn't seem like it should be dependant upon any "hard-wiring" in-camera... Hey Canon... Are you listening? SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson SNIP >>>> Some DSLRs can create a dust reference file which when used with >>>> the RAW image format and right software can remove most of the >>>> dust spots recorded by a sensor. This does not eliminated the >>>> need for cleaning the sensor, but can reduce the impact of sensor >>>> dust by taking the dust reference image before shooting a series >>>> of images. SNIP > I don't see any reason why camera manufacturers couldn't add this > via software...since it doesn't seem like it should be dependant > upon any "hard-wiring" in-camera... Well, nobody is stopping anybody from taking a flat-field image before or after a session, and using that as a mask to address dust in postprocessing ... SignatureBart > > > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > We are not exactly swamped with reports of damaged sensors here, are we? No, the people posting here are enthusiasts with some understanding of the delicacy of optics, etc. But what about the millions they've sold to former P&S users? We really do not know anything about damage return rates, etc. There is a reason they put things like "not to be taken internally" on bottles of drain cleaner. It's because there are enough completely stupid people out there so it could be a problem. Therefore, whatever keeps them away from the sensor makes good sense. > > > Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some > > > people, enough so [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Anything that keeps someone from having to touch a sensor cover until > the last possible moment is a good thing. If it works, as you said. Nonsense. What's wrong with touching the low pass filter with the proper tool? I do it several times a year to clean my sensor. No problems in several years, and I don't anticipate any until I'm too old and shaky to care. And you blathered on earlier about expensive items to clean the filter: I think the make up brush I use cost $1.97, and the can of air I use to charge it costs five bucks and also cleans my keyboard and computer innards for more than a year before I run out and buy another. Cleaning a sensor need not take long, and need not cost much, if anything: I think my cost amortizes out to something like a nickel a cleaning, at most. Some people do seem to get oddball hard-to-remove substances on the sensors, but they are in a distinct minority. Those people need either factory cleaning or fancier liquids. The rest of us don't. >> Self-cleaning sensor. I guess dust motes really DID bother some >> people, enough so >> Canon made the logical move to this. > > I'll be interested to see how well it works before declaring it a 'logical > move'. It is a logical marketing move. |
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