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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006D70 to D80
I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the general feeling on the upgrade. Thanks Bruce > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. The D80 is fine (and so is the D70). Why do you need 10 Mpix? How large do you print. That's what it really comes down to. If you often print above 12x8" then it is likely worth it.  Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. > > Thanks Bruce No matter what they say, you can EASILY see the difference between 6mp and 10mp even in an 8x10 print. My guess is since you do landscapes you must print larger on occassion. You will really appreciate the increase. I went from 8 to 5 and the difference was a shock. >> I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >> Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > print larger on occassion. You will really appreciate the increase. I > went from 8 to 5 and the difference was a shock. I don't think that you can see a difference - unless you use high quality lenses. If you resample 10mp images to 6mp then resample back to original size (using lanczos interpolation or equivalent) then unless you use a good lens (and have good technique) you won't see any real difference. Flame me after viewing the images here: http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~tmg/6vs10.jpg The test is even a little "unfair to 6mp"- as even lanczos interpolation will result in additional losses compared to an image that has not been resampled. IMO buying an 10mp camera in the hope of extra resolution over 6 or 8 is mainly wasted unless you are prepared to buy either expensive lenses, or can live within the limitations of good but less expensive fixed focal length primes. >>> I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >>> Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Flame me after viewing the images here: > http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~tmg/6vs10.jpg Hmm .. the door and other elements showed far more detail on the 10MP image ... and that is a small image. I don't think you have supported your hypothesis very well at all. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 >>>> I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >>>> Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ... and that is a small image. I don't think you have supported your > hypothesis very well at all. Errr... I said that unless you use a good lens you won't see a difference. The top images are taken with a $1500 lens and I see that 10mp is better. I have added another image - of the "6mp" image with a little USM applied - not scientific at all, but compensates a little for losses from interpolation. These are 1:1 crops - there is very little (but some) difference between 6 and 10mp. The bottom images are taken with a $150 lens, and I can't see any difference in detail between 6 and 10 at all. > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. > > Thanks Bruce IMO, the "upgrade" to the D70 is the D200 - why mess around? PC >> I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the >> D80. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > PC And I forgot to add, having upgraded to the D200, that it is a quantum leap forward and infinitely superior to the D70 or the D80. Quality of images is exceptionally better and flexibility of operation is extensive. Buy it, you'll never look back.... PC > And I forgot to add, having upgraded to the D200, that it is a quantum > leap forward and infinitely superior to the D70 or the D80. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > PC What are the features of the D200 that make it "infinitely better" and "exceptionally better" than the D80. Faster burst frame rate? Compatibility with non-chipped lenses? Metal vs polycarbonate? It would be no surprise if the image quality from the D80 was in fact superior to the D200 - particularly given the banding issue related to the 4 channel sensor of the D200 which should be absent on the 2 channel D80 sensor. I note that new D200 prices have already dropped here (NZ) and quite a few have hit the second hand market - even though it is months before the D80 will be available. >And I forgot to add, having upgraded to the D200, that it is a quantum >leap forward and infinitely superior to the D70 or the D80. How can it be infinitely superior to a camera (D80) that isn't even on sale yet?? According to Nobody <No-one@nowhere.notime>: > >And I forgot to add, having upgraded to the D200, that it is a quantum > >leap forward and infinitely superior to the D70 or the D80. > > How can it be infinitely superior to a camera (D80) that isn't even on > sale yet?? Doesn't availability constitute a significant advantage of the D200 over the D80? (Though granted, that one is a transient advantage. :-) Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > According to Nobody <No-one@nowhere.notime>: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > DoN. > Availability has little or nothing to do with it, in my view..... My opinion was based on simply reading the specs - the D80 is basically a D70s with a higher mega pixel count.... The "difference" between the enhanced D70 and the D80 ain't hard to see unless you are determined to be blind to the obvious.... PC > >And I forgot to add, having upgraded to the D200, that it is a quantum > >leap forward and infinitely superior to the D70 or the D80. > > How can it be infinitely superior to a camera (D80) that isn't even on > sale yet?? If the only thing you are comparing is the sensor, then the D200 is not superior to the D80. It is the same sensor. Otherwise, the D200 is a signficantly better camera. It is tougher, weather-sealed, does not bury many of the most commonly used features in menus, can take advantage of the full capability of the Nikon's Creative Lighting System, is faster, etc. Basically, it offers the photographer far more control over the whole picture taking process. The only thing the D80 has over the D200 is the ability to use that cheap little remote control clicker. Wireless remote for the D200 is expensive and clunky, but it does have a lot more capability. Sometimes, though, it is nice to just have a little clicker. > If the only thing you are comparing is the sensor, then the D200 is not > superior to the D80. It is the same sensor. No - it isn't the same sensor chip. The D200 sensor is "superior" in terms of 4 channel output = faster (5.57 vs 3.3 fps theoretical output). Whether it is "superior" in image quality is another issue - but much of that will probably relate to differences in in-camera processing, AA filter etc. Probably enough difference to keep usenet and forum discussions active. > > If the only thing you are comparing is the sensor, then the D200 is not > > superior to the D80. It is the same sensor. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > filter etc. Probably enough difference to keep usenet and forum > discussions active. I would hope for slightly better image quality. It would indicate that Nikon continues to improve things. >>> If the only thing you are comparing is the sensor, then the D200 is not >>> superior to the D80. It is the same sensor. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I would hope for slightly better image quality. It would indicate that > Nikon continues to improve things. For the average consumer I think that they have. Totally subjective, but test images that I've seen from the D80 taken at high iso seem to have very much less noise than jpegs from the D200 - a huge benefit to shooters who are reasonably interested in image quality but use ex-camera jpeg (Ken Rockwell fans?) or who haven't realised that even images that look horrendously noisy can usually be cleaned up very well with PP (including "freeware") with nowhere near the supposed "loss of detail" that is reputed to occur. > > I would hope for slightly better image quality. It would indicate that > > Nikon continues to improve things. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > with PP (including "freeware") with nowhere near the supposed "loss of > detail" that is reputed to occur. Well, Nikon did need to make some progress, at least in jpegs. I think one of the problems that people have with the D200 is that they tend to over-sharpen, especially if they are coming from a camera like the D70. First of all, the D200 has a much better image quality than the D70 to begin with, so it should not need as much sharpening. Secondly, the larger pixel count on the D200 can trick you if you are used to looking at D70 images on a monitor. With the D70, people could get away with sharpening a full screen image and it would seem to look all right (until you printed it, anyway). But the D200's image, because of its size, can look fuzzy at some of the more common monitor resolutions. The only way you are going to do a decent job sharpening a D200 raw file is at 100% and in the monitor's native resolution. Nothing else will do. If you don't do that, you will probably over-sharpen the picture trying to get it to look right and it will look very noisy. I can understand Ken Rockwell's use of jpeg although I prefer to work with raw photos. He uses iView Media Pro for an organizer and it is abominably slow at importing raw files. It can take 40 minutes or more to import 150 files from a card reader on my PowerBook G4. That is just too slow. Aperture is faster, but not by much. Even just copying the files with Finder is pretty darned slow. What we really need are faster card readers for the Mac. The newest MacBooks have faster slots and FireWire 800; either of those would go a long way toward solving the problem. > I can understand Ken Rockwell's use of jpeg although I prefer to work > with raw photos. He uses iView Media Pro for an organizer and it is > abominably slow at importing raw files. It can take 40 minutes or more > to import 150 files from a card reader on my PowerBook G4. That is just > too slow. what card reader? how long does it take just to simply copy the files from the card to your hard drive? i use iview and it doesn't take anywhere near 40 minutes to import that many raw files. i just dropped a folder of 364 raw files on to iview and it took just under three minutes to create a new catalogue and display thumbnails for all of the images on a powerbook g4. > Aperture is faster, but not by much. Even just copying the files with > Finder is pretty darned slow. What we really need are faster card > readers for the Mac. The newest MacBooks have faster slots and FireWire > 800; either of those would go a long way toward solving the problem. it sounds like you have a usb1 card reader. check rob galbraith's review of various card readers: <http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-8462> > > I can understand Ken Rockwell's use of jpeg although I prefer to work > > with raw photos. He uses iView Media Pro for an organizer and it is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > it sounds like you have a usb1 card reader. It is an Ambicom PC card adapter. > > it sounds like you have a usb1 card reader. > > It is an Ambicom PC card adapter. if it is a standard pc card (which is what i'm guessing it is), then it will be slow. consider getting a cardbus version if you want the convenience of a pc card. here's one: <http://www.delkin.com/products/adapters/cardbus/> alternately, consider a usb 2 high speed card reader. be sure that it is usb 2 high speed - unfortunately a lot of card readers try to fool consumers by claiming that they are usb 2 full speed and not high speed, but they are no better than a usb 1.1 card reader. read the labels! > > > it sounds like you have a usb1 card reader. > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > speed, but they are no better than a usb 1.1 card reader. read the > labels! Thanks. None of those around here, though! I might find one when I go to Manila in a couple months, but then I am returning to America at that time anyway. Computer supplies are much cheaper in America, what with Manila's value added tax. I will probably limp along with this thing until I upgrade to a MacBook Pro next year. By that time there should be some decent ExpressCard readers out. SignatureEd Smith"I came into the world with nothing and I still have most of it" >> I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the >> D80. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I agree the D80 is probably the upgrade from the D50 since they both use SD >cards. That reasoning defies all logic. SignatureJoan http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly : I agree the D80 is probably the upgrade from the D50 since they both use SD : cards. > That reasoning defies all logic. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > use SD > : cards. No, it is logical to those who think that a Ferrari is only an upgrade from a Chevy Caprice because they both burn unleaded gas. Don'tcha know? The card is the only thing that matters in a camera. Forget about construction quality, lenses, software, sensor, accessories, ergonomics, picture quality, etc. Those are nothing compared to whether it uses an SD card or a CF card. Focus only on the card! Nothing else matters! I wonder what these idiots will say if Nikon's D3 35mm sensor camera ends up having an SD card? It'll probably have a mini SD because of space limitations. SignatureJoan http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly : I wonder what these idiots will say if Nikon's D3 35mm sensor camera : ends up having an SD card? > I wonder what these idiots will say if Nikon's D3 35mm sensor camera > ends up having an SD card? They'd say it's a dumb move! Who wants to screw around with memory cards anyway? I want my D3 to have a built 400GB HD and a 10/100/1000 Ethernet jack for easy downloads. Of course, nuclear powered so I don't have to worry about buying or charging batteries. Rita > > I wonder what these idiots will say if Nikon's D3 35mm sensor camera > > ends up having an SD card? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rita Whoops, congratulations! You just made Homeland Security's Watch List. Now, if you had said 'noo-cu-lar' that would be okay. Nikon already offer WIFI for the pro DSLRs, capture software to control DSLRs and a utility to integrate the capture software and pro DSLRs with the capture program. This should give untetherd control of the camera and download of about 300 feet from the WAP, wireless access point, and out of this world if the WAP has a connection to the Internet. > > I wonder what these idiots will say if Nikon's D3 35mm sensor camera > > ends up having an SD card? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rita >I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. > > Thanks Bruce I don't see a lot of difference except for the extra megapixels. So, you have to ask yourself if you really need them. The best thing about the new camera is the Nikon OEM vertical grip that attaches to the bottom of the camera. It accepts both Nikon lithium batteries and AA's. > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. I would not upgrade right away, or else I would consider the D200. You have a lot more artistic control with this camera than you do with either the D70 or D80. But I would wait at least until Nikon works out whatever bugs people find in the the new D80. Newly introduced DSLRs are notorious for suffering a few teething pains. Whether the D80 is worth the upgrade is subjective. Some people are willing to spend a lot for a feature that others might consider unimportant. The 10Mp is a significant difference to me. I might not be so much to others. >I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due >to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the >general feeling on the upgrade. I would save the money, and wait for a D200 price drop. -espen Signaturehttp://www.seland.org/ > >I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > >Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > >to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > >general feeling on the upgrade. > > I would save the money, and wait for a D200 price drop. Unlikely to drop more than couple hundred dollars, and then only when Nikon is about to release a replacement. > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. Landscape photography will greatly benefit from the higher resolution sensor in my opinion. For landscape purposes, that is reason alone to consider the upgrade. The brighter viewfinder is another great reason. I will consider it myself, but I think the D200 or successor is the way I may go. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 > I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. > Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due > to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the > general feeling on the upgrade. > > Thanks Bruce The nice thing about a 10mp sensor is that you can do 8x10s (8x12) without interpolating, the bad thing is this sensor likes good glass. Not so hot lenses fall apart. That said a lot of folks are useing the 18-70 kit lens and say in the middle apertures that they do fine. Primes are wonderful on theis camera. Just love the images I get from a 55 f2.8 micro. Will you see a difference between an 8x10 printed from 6mp or 10mp, that is up in the air. I would say yes, but you may have to look hard with a good lens on both cameras. The viewfinder on the D80 is going to be far superior to the dim thing on the D70. There is a world of difference between the D70 and the D200, it is basicly porroprism (mirrors) vs. pentaprism (a true prism). With a pentaprism manual focus (necessary in macro) becomes a joy. If the D80 uses the same batteries as the D200 you may get less shots per charge. Two reasons (three actually) I bought the D200 and still would are the use of older Nikon manual focus lenses, the viewfinder (maybe the same in the D80, and the solid build of the camera. Some folks think it is heavy, I was used to Canon F1s, put a motor with the 12 AAs in it and you have a heavy camera. Good luck Tom > The viewfinder on the D80 is going to be far superior to the dim thing > on the D70. There is a world of difference between the D70 and the > D200, it is basicly porroprism (mirrors) vs. pentaprism (a true prism). > With a pentaprism manual focus (necessary in macro) becomes a joy. Would a pentaprism add a lot to the manufacturing cost compared with a porroprism? >I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due >to retire I hope to spend far more time doing photography. What is the >general feeling on the upgrade. The D80 would certainly be a nice upgrade. But will you need what it offers? Take a look at this page and check out the extra features: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond80/ Scroll down to the comparison between the D80 and D70s, and look at what the D80 offers. If some features grab your attention, then you may benefit from the upgrade. Personally, the things that would attract me are the better viewfinder, more controls on the body, mirror lockup, and fully mechanical shutter. But your needs are not the same as mine. >>I have a D70 (not a D70S) and I can afford to part ex & upgrade to the D80. >>Question is, is it worth the expense, I tend to do landscapes & as I'm due [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > more controls on the body, mirror lockup, and fully mechanical shutter. > But your needs are not the same as mine. So, what is the benefit of a fully mechanical shutter? I see that it significantly limits flash sync compared to the D70 ... which is a "negative improvement" if you will. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 >> Scroll down to the comparison between the D80 and D70s, and look at what >> the D80 offers. If some features grab your attention, then you may [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > significantly limits flash sync compared to the D70 ... which is a "negative > improvement" if you will. I agree. Better viewfinder, MLU, and one other important feature of the D80 - RGB Histogram make it a big upgrade over the D70. I was ready to buy a D200, but I will wait. The D200 has no features over the D80 that I value (Fast burst rates, metering with AI lenses, and metal construction are of no interest to me), but the D80 has on paper several features that I do value over my D70. |
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