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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006Old Nikkor AF lenses on D200 ?
Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 F2.8 may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. 1 - Is the AF system compatible ? 2 - Are they optically compatible (no shading in corners, etc). TIA for any concise answers ! geoff >Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 F2.8 >may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. > >1 - Is the AF system compatible ? > >2 - Are they optically compatible (no shading in corners, etc). http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqi d=13867&p_created=1139247776&p_sid=tO-mf5fi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcm NoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjYmcF9wcm9kcz0xOSwyMTcmcF9jYX RzPTAmcF9wdj0yLjIxNyZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT 0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bGVucw**&p_li=&p_topview=1 -- Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com) http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 > F2.8 may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > geoff I bought both of those lenses when I bought my F100, oh so long ago. I spent it all on the D200 kit that came with the 18-70mm?(slow, but wide angle) so nothing left for new glass. It takes a little getting used to, I have to keep stepping back from the subject when I use these lenses. But, they work fine. Steve > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 > F2.8 may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > geoff I got an older 80~200 f2.8 AF (pre tripod mount) and it works perfectly on my D70, so it should work fine on a D200. My focus is controlled by the motor in the camera, but I think the newer lenses have the focus motor in the lens. > > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 > > F2.8 may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > motor in the camera, but I think the newer lenses have the focus motor in > the lens. focus is controlled by the motor in the camera??? >> I got an older 80~200 f2.8 AF (pre tripod mount) and it works perfectly on >> my D70, so it should work fine on a D200. My focus is controlled by the >> motor in the camera, but I think the newer lenses have the focus motor in >> the lens. > >focus is controlled by the motor in the camera??? Before autofocus motors were built in to Nikon lenses, they used a small motor drive from the camera body. Take a look at any Nikon AF SLR camera, remove the lense, and look at the lower left area of the mount. You'll see what looks like a small slot-head pin sticking out of the mount. This "screw drive" is used to turn the focus mechanism inside older lenses. The better camera bodies and lenses can use this focus drive almost as fast as the AF-S internal motors in todays lenses. According to Sheldon <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net>: > > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 > > F2.8 may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. > > > > 1 - Is the AF system compatible ? Yes. > > 2 - Are they optically compatible (no shading in corners, etc). Actually -- possibly *less* shading than on the full-frame film bodies, because it only has to cover the reduced area of the sensor. So -- a lens with marginal corner performance will be better on the D70 or the D200. The one consideration is that the lenses will be behaving as though they were longer lenses on the film camera. The 35-70mm will give coverage equivalent to 52.5-105mm, and the 80-200mm will give coverage equivalent to 120-300mm. So -- you *will* likely want something wider, and the kit lens is an excellent start there with the 18-70mm covering as though it were a 27-105mm. However, it is a slower lens than your two -- f3.5-4.5 depending on where in the zoom range you are. > > TIA for any concise answers ! > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > motor in the camera, but I think the newer lenses have the focus motor in > the lens. And the D200 has taken that compatibility even farther, as it can meter using the pre-AF AI lenses. With my D70, I'm using a 35-135mm AF and a 28-105mm AF, as well as an old 50mm AF -- and only the 28-105mm AF has the 'D' feature. They work quite well. As well as the 18-70mm "kit" lens which (optionally) comes with the camera. So -- don't sweat it. Enjoy, DoN.  SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > According to Sheldon <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net>: > So -- don't sweat it. Still a little sweaty. The table at: http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqi d=13867&p_created=1139247776&p_sid=tO-mf5fi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcm NoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjYmcF9wcm9kcz0xOSwyMTcmcF9jYX RzPTAmcF9wdj0yLjIxNyZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT 0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bGVucw**&p_li=&p_topview=1 ... would appear to imply AF functionality only with 'CPU' lenses ?!!? geoff According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: > > According to Sheldon <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net>: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqi d=13867&p_created=1139247776&p_sid=tO-mf5fi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcm NoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjYmcF9wcm9kcz0xOSwyMTcmcF9jYX RzPTAmcF9wdj0yLjIxNyZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT 0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bGVucw**&p_li=&p_topview=1 What an *ugly* URL. Three and a half lines to cut and paste from my screen into one for the browser. :-) > ... would appear to imply AF functionality only with 'CPU' lenses ?!!? I have a question -- have you *ever* seen a Nikkor AF lens which did *not* have a CPU? Every AF lens which I have seen also had a CPU. To check, remove the lens from the camera, and look at the mount end of the lens. It should have a "screwdriver" slot at about 5:00 (with the focusing index mark at 12:00 as when on the camera body), and several metal studs (bumps) coming out of a black plastic support in the range covered by the aperture scale when set at about mid-range. (e.g. at f8 for a f22-f3.5 scale on my 35-135mm lens which is currently on the camera). (The range covered by these bumps is about 11:00 to 1:00.) These are the contacts for the CPU in the lens. The "screwdriver" slot is the mechanical coupling for the older lenses. Newer lenses -- those with the ultrasonic focusing motor inside the lens will not have the screwdriver slot -- but will typically have more CPU contacts. The old 35-135 lens has only five pins arranged: Clock Pin or Space Comments Face Location ============================================================ 11:00 pin space space 12:00 pin (lines up with lens index mark along the top). pin pin 1:00 pin ============================================================ The autofocus works flawlessly with my D70. The D200 will *meter* with lenses which my D70 will not, so it should certainly manage to autofocus with lenses which the D70 will use. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > I have a question -- have you *ever* seen a Nikkor AF lens which > did *not* have a CPU? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > focusing index mark at 12:00 as when on the camera body), and several > metal studs (bumps) coming out of a black plastic support in the OK you've convinced me ! I have assumed the contacts were merely passed AF and metering info on a 'passive' basis ... Now all I have to do is convince mself that the D200 has something to offer over a D80. I'm coming from an F4, so I am used to 'substantial', and the idea of a plastic chassis doesn't exactly give me a stiffy .... thanks geoff According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: > > I have a question -- have you *ever* seen a Nikkor AF lens which > > did *not* have a CPU? [ ... ] > OK you've convinced me ! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > over a D80. I'm coming from an F4, so I am used to 'substantial', and the > idea of a plastic chassis doesn't exactly give me a stiffy .... Hmm ... the last word in the above line -- did you know that in the UK, people refer to the 3-1/2" floppys by that term? :-) O.K. Do you have any lenses which are *not* autofocus? If you have some which are not autofocus, but which are AI ("Aperture Indexed" -- tabs on the flange of the aperture ring), the D200 can use them with automatic exposure control. The D70 cannot -- you have to meter with a handheld meter (the old way), or guess and check the histogram for additional information, or meter with another lens and transfer the setting to the AI lens. You *do* have to tell the D200 what the maximum aperture of the lens is for this to work, but you can use the lenses at least. I honestly do not know whether the D80 can meter with an AI lens or not. But I hope to get a D200 to deal with the older AI lenses which I still have. Also -- look through the viewfinders of both cameras. The D200 has a much superior viewfinder to that on the D70. It may also be better than that on the D80. I have not yet had a chance to handle a D80 in the store, but I have handled a D200 there to compare it to my D200. If you carry the camera on a strap a lot (as I do -- whenever I leave the house), another feature of the D200 may or may not be on the D80 -- it certainly is not on the D70. That is the knob to the left of the pentaprism on top of the camera. The D200 has a lock which must be depressed with your thumb to allow it to rotate. The D70's will rotate at any time you apply any force to the rim -- as sometimes happens when I am driving and the knob rubs against my arm while I am steering. This results in the camera being in some other mode than I expect. Hopefully, they have added this lock to the D80 as well -- but I don't know. It is another thing to check out. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > You *do* have to tell the D200 what the maximum aperture of the > lens is for this to work, but you can use the lenses at least. Actually, technically you don't. If you don't enter the lens information, metering will still work just fine, but the camera won't report the correct aperture on its readouts or in the image's EXIF data. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com >According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: >> Now all I have to do is convince mself that the D200 has something to offer >> over a D80. I think the D80 is going to be a hot seller. It has most of the functionality of the D200 with similar image quality. The D200 is still a better camera if you need weather sealing, magnesium alloy body, AI lense metering, function controls on the body, large memory cards, etc. > I honestly do not know whether the D80 can meter with an AI lens >or not. But I hope to get a D200 to deal with the older AI lenses which >I still have. From specifications posted by Nikon, the D80 can not meter with AI lenses. That's one of the features the D200 has over the D80. > The D200 has a lock which must be >depressed with your thumb to allow it to rotate. > >Hopefully, they have added this lock to the D80 as well -- but I don't >know. It is another thing to check out. From pictures of the D80, it does not have a lock on the mode dial. The dial appears to be the same as the one on the D70. > O.K. Do you have any lenses which are *not* autofocus? If you > have some which are not autofocus, but which are AI ("Aperture [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > histogram for additional information, or meter with another lens and > transfer the setting to the AI lens. Hi again folks. I got the D200, and yes, my old AF Nikkors all work just fione. That is, EXCEPT my manual Nikkors attached to TC16A - which SHOULD work ? ALso, have to read the manual to find why (A) mode gives Fee whenever I take the aperture off minimum - surely that's the point ?!!! STill unclear as to how the new-v-old focal length thang works. Is a 200mml 'new' lens still the same as a 200mm lens ? Or is it a lens that in the digital form factor gives the same magnification as an 'old 35mm 200mm lens ? Or would the 18-200 new lens (possible vignetting notwithstanding) still be 18-200 on my F4 ? geoff > ALso, have to read the manual to find why (A) mode gives Fee whenever I take > the aperture off minimum - surely that's the point ?!!! It's expecting that you'll control the aperture from the camera body, which requires that you keep the aperture ring set to minimum. The D2x has an option in the menu to switch to using the aperture ring, so the D200 probably has it, too. But it's one or the other. However, if it's set to control the aperture from the camera body and you mount an older non-CPU lens, you then can use the aperture ring without having to change any settings. The setting only affects CPU lenses. > STill unclear as to how the new-v-old focal length thang works. Is a 200mml > 'new' lens still the same as a 200mm lens ? Or is it a lens that in the > digital form factor gives the same magnification as an 'old 35mm 200mm lens? Focal length is focal length; it's an optical property of the lens. When you put a lens on the digital camera, it has a smaller sensor than 35mm film, so you're only getting the center part of the image. The field of view changes as a result. To figure the field of view in terms of 35mm film, multiply the focal length by 1.5, and your lens will have the field of view of a lens with that focal length on a 35mm camera. To avoid confusion, just forget about all that and learn what the focal length means in terms of field of view on the digital camera. > Or would the 18-200 new lens (possible vignetting notwithstanding) still be > 18-200 on my F4 ? If it worked, it would be 18-200, and have the field of view of an 18-200 on 35mm film, which is wider than on the digital. Unfortunately, we got so used to thinking of field of view in terms of focal length that it has become somewhat confusing now that everything isn't 35mm film. Field of view and focal length are two very different things, but people aren't going to change the way they think about it anytime soon. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com > Unfortunately, we got so used to thinking of field of view in terms of focal > length that it has become somewhat confusing now that everything isn't 35mm > film. Field of view and focal length are two very different things, but > people aren't going to change the way they think about it anytime soon. The 75mm lens on my Minolta Autocord is very mildly wider than normal; and the 210mm on my 4x5 Calumet was a mild telephoto and would have been a normal on a 5x7. Everything hasn't been 35mm format for quite a long time. SignatureRebecca Ore > Everything hasn't been 35mm format for quite a long time. Everything has never been 35mm, but it's the 35mm people who think of field of view as a function of focal length, and for the vast majority of 35mm people, everything *is* 35mm. So, yeah, that's what I meant. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com >> ALso, have to read the manual to find why (A) mode gives Fee >> whenever I take the aperture off minimum - surely that's the point [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > D2x has an option in the menu to switch to using the aperture ring, > so the D200 probably has it, too. But it's one or the other. Yes, I finally read the manual !!! Now to find how to inhibit the exp comp on the front data dial. Too easy to knock bu accident .... > Unfortunately, we got so used to thinking of field of view in terms > of focal length that it has become somewhat confusing now that > everything isn't 35mm film. Field of view and focal length are two > very different things, but people aren't going to change the way they > think about it anytime soon. Yes, I can't get past the 50mm 'natural perspective' thing. Have to start thinking '35=50' but messy when moving between 35mm and D formats. geoff > Yes, I can't get past the 50mm 'natural perspective' thing. Then you have even further to go. Focal length, field of view, and perspective are three entirely different things, and cannot be correctly thought of as functions of each other. A 50mm is close to "normal" on 35mm, and narrower on DX digital, and neither of those things has anything remotely to do with perspective. Just learn what happens when you put a 50mm lens on your digital camera, and don't confuse yourself with "crop factors" and "multipliers" and the like. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com >> Yes, I can't get past the 50mm 'natural perspective' thing. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >what happens when you put a 50mm lens on your digital camera, and don't >confuse yourself with "crop factors" and "multipliers" and the like. Yeah, I presumed the same thing, until a few people told me I was wrong and should try it myself. I did, and now I know a 50mm makes a great portrait lense on a 1.5/1.6x FOV crop sensor. And a 35mm at the same distance gives the same perspective as a 50mm on a film body. Have a look at this for examples: http://hannemyr.com/photo/crop.html According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: > > O.K. Do you have any lenses which are *not* autofocus? If you > > have some which are not autofocus, but which are AI ("Aperture [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I got the D200, and yes, my old AF Nikkors all work just fione. That is, > EXCEPT my manual Nikkors attached to TC16A - which SHOULD work ? They should work *directly* -- with the right settings -- unless they are so old as to not have the AI (Aperture Indexed) aperture ring. Look at the "skirt" of the aperture setting ring, and see whether it is a continuous diameter, or whether it has steps removed from it at certain parts of its circumference. Your AF lenses should be examples of the latter, and this allows some camera bodies to determine the current aperture (well, really, how far below the maximum aperture you are set) -- without a CPU. However -- the Teleconvertors (which is what I presume the TC16A is) won't transfer the information through, so the camer might be a bit picky about that. > ALso, have to read the manual to find why (A) mode gives Fee whenever I take > the aperture off minimum - surely that's the point ?!!! Hmm ... That is telling you that the camera can't give proper information about the current aperture. The AI tabs only tell the camera how many stops below the maximum aperture it is set, not what the actual aperture is. For this (as I understand it for the D200), you have to tell the camera what the maximum aperture of the lens is. On the D70, there is no such workaround. This mostly determines whether the exposure information will be properly recorded in 'A' mode. In the 'S' mode, 'P' mode, and in "Auto" modes it is necessary for the camera body to control the aperture through the whole range. > STill unclear as to how the new-v-old focal length thang works. Is a 200mml > 'new' lens still the same as a 200mm lens ? Or is it a lens that in the > digital form factor gives the same magnification as an 'old 35mm 200mm lens > ? The focal length is the *real* focal length, not the "effective" one. You use the camera's crop factor (1.5 in this case) to determine what the effective focal length (in terms of coverage) will be. > Or would the 18-200 new lens (possible vignetting notwithstanding) still be > 18-200 on my F4 ? Yes, it would. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > they are so old as to not have the AI (Aperture Indexed) aperture > ring. It apertures OK, but won't even attempt to AF. Which is a bit of a drawback for an AF teleconverter ! geoff According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: > > According to Geoff <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>: [ ... ] > >> I got the D200, and yes, my old AF Nikkors all work just fione. > >> That is, EXCEPT my manual Nikkors attached to TC16A - which SHOULD [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It apertures OK, but won't even attempt to AF. Which is a bit of a drawback > for an AF teleconverter ! Does the teleconvertor have contacts to relay the CPU of CPU lenses to the camera body? If so, with a lens with no CPU, it might be confusing the body. I haven't used a teleconvertor since I gave away my collection of Mirandas when I moved up to Nikon F bodies and matching lenses. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > Does the teleconvertor have contacts to relay the CPU of CPU > lenses to the camera body? If so, with a lens with no CPU, it might > be confusing the body. > > I haven't used a teleconvertor since I gave away my collection > of Mirandas when I moved up to Nikon F bodies and matching lenses. The Nikkor TC16A ia a teleconveter (1.6x !!!) that is designed to convert non-AF lenses to AF. The TC has the CPU contacts on the camera side, and does focusing (obvious more limited than a full AF lens) internally to itself. It works fine in that manner on the F4. But zilch on the D200. Evidently works on the D2 also, but not the D1 ! geoff > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 F2.8 > may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > TIA for any concise answers ! Concise answer: they are completely compatible. You can use Nikon lenses much older than those, even. SignatureJeremy | jeremy@exit109.com I use the 35-70 2.8 on a daily basis with the D2H 7 D2x, used to use it on the D-100. It's a great camera lens combination with no problems. There are only a few old lenses that don't work with the Nikon DSLR's Don Harper The Edge Photography Studio Leesburg, Va. 20176 > Somebody suggested to me that my old Nikkor AF 80-200mm f2.8 and 35-70 F2.8 > may not be compatible with, say, a new D200. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > geoff |
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