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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006Advice for a flash
Hi, Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm amateour photographer and I don't want to spend soo much money. Which parameters to look? Thanks a lot! Here you go: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ If you start out with a less powerful flash unit, you'll find that you will want more flash (GN) more often than not. If you can swing it, go for a Canon 580EX. I know it's not cheap, but it will give your 20D a great flash since it's really designed for the Canon's DSLR's. Cheers! > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks a lot! >Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. Yes you do, the 20D has a built-in flash. :-) >Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm >amateour photographer and I don't want to spend soo much money. Which >parameters to look? When buying external flash units, you want as much range as possible, and a bounce feature. The range is rated as a guide number (GN) in feet or meters at ISO 100, and typically you want 100 feet or more for decent power. The bounce feature is good for getting a more natural lighting on the subject if you can use a ceiling or wall to bounce and diffuse the light. A good flash unit isn't cheap. They have about 10x the power of the built-in flash, more capability, and faster recycle time, so expect to pay a few hundred for something like the Canon 430EX. > Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. > Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm > amateour photographer and I don't want to spend soo much money. Which > parameters to look? Sigma EF 500 DG http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash >> Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. >> Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash Go for the Super, they are a great flash. > >> Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. > >> Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Go for the Super, they are a great flash. If you don't need high speed, wireless, etc., the ST is the lowest priced high power flash, at about $100. The Super about doubles the price. Is there any difference between the 2 in the basic flash operations? The discontinued Canon 550EX is about $100 cheaper than the new Canon 580EX. http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash >> >> Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. >> >> Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash The 550EX would be a good choice as well. The DG Super has off camera remote capability that I use from time to time and it is a brilliant feature, the display is also better than the standard unit. > > Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. > > Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to look. I'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash Search the archives here for a lot of flash talk about the 300D wihch I believe shares electronics with the D20. I own a 550EX and I would second Aaron in suggesting the Sigma in its place. And I recall similar advice back when I was griping about my disappointment with the 300D + 550EX combo. I'm not terribly happy with the flash performance of the EOS digitals just yet (in contrast to being completely pleased with the 540EZ on my film Elan). In short, I'd like to try a Sigma myself to see if it imprves upon the 550EX+300D tendency to underexpose the shot in P mode. Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ > In short, I'd like to try a Sigma myself to see if it imprves upon the > 550EX+300D tendency to underexpose the shot in P mode. You can set flash exposure comp. on your 550EX, if you want it to give you more light. If you intent to use the optical remote capabilities of some of the EX flashes, test first if they do work correctly with the Sigma. -Wolfgang > > In short, I'd like to try a Sigma myself to see if it imprves upon the > > 550EX+300D tendency to underexpose the shot in P mode. > > You can set flash exposure comp. on your 550EX, if you want > it to give you more light. Yes you can, and thank god because I have to shoot at +1 nearly the whole friggin time. Of course, depending on the color composition of the scene especially at the focus point in use during metering, you end up overexposed when you least want it to. Compared to the EX flash system on the EOS Elan, no amount of turd polishing escapes the fact that it's relatively quite a pain in the a.s to get good, consistent flash exposures on the 550EX + 300D. http://www.google.com/search?q=eos+flash+underexposed+550eX I miss being able to not have to think so hard about flash exposures when pre-focusing and recomposing on the Elan. Given the algorithm on the 300D and how strongly it weighs the selected focus point during exposure, you have to use flash exposure lock consistently if you plan to get consistently good results, and doing that is quite a pain in the butt. The Sigma flash may be a route to this gentler time. All I'm saying is that life with a 550EX, despite the expense, is not all roses. Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ >> > In short, I'd like to try a Sigma myself to see if it imprves upon the >> > 550EX+300D tendency to underexpose the shot in P mode. >> You can set flash exposure comp. on your 550EX, if you want >> it to give you more light. > Yes you can, and thank god because I have to shoot at +1 nearly the > whole friggin time. Doesn't jibe with my experience. > Of course, depending on the color composition of the scene especially > at the focus point in use during metering, you end up overexposed when > you least want it to. Using flash is not trivial and must be learned. > Compared to the EX flash system on the EOS Elan, no amount of turd > polishing escapes the fact that it's relatively quite a pain in the > a.s to get good, consistent flash exposures on the 550EX + 300D. > http://www.google.com/search?q=eos+flash+underexposed+550eX Have you grokked http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ ? Flash photography _is_ an art (i.e. it takes years to learn to do it well and consistent), and digital doesn't handle overexposure. You shot print film in your Elan, not slide film, right? Print film you can over- or underexposure for 2 or 3 stops and the lab will correct it > I miss being able to not have to think so hard about flash exposures > when pre-focusing and recomposing on the Elan. So use either an 'automatic' flash unit or see if you cannot custom function your 300D to use average instead of E-TTL. (Or ubgrade to a model using E-TTL II.) > Given the algorithm on > the 300D and how strongly it weighs the selected focus point during > exposure, you have to use flash exposure lock consistently if you plan > to get consistently good results, and doing that is quite a pain in > the butt. You can always recompose and then shift your selected focus point. (Of course, that means moving AF from the shutter ... > The Sigma flash may be a route to this gentler time. It's the camera that tells the flash how much power to dump. Unless you have an 'automatic' flash unit, which looks like any old stupid manual flash to the camera. > All I'm saying > is that life with a 550EX, despite the expense, is not all roses. Ah, but is that the fault of the 550EX, or of the 300D or of E-TTL (versus average, versuss E-TTL 2) or is pre-focus and recompose maybe not the best idea (i.e. operator error?) -Wolfgang > Have you grokked http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ ? Yes. > Flash photography _is_ an art (i.e. it takes years to learn to do > it well and consistent), and digital doesn't handle overexposure. Things I know. Been shooting for 20 years now. :-) > You shot print film in your Elan, not slide film, right? > Print film you can over- or underexposure for 2 or 3 stops and > the lab will correct it. Shot prints and slides and routinely examined negatives. But here's another basis of my gripe with 300D+550EX: That same 550EX on my much older Canon G2 ... gives wonderfully balanced flash pictures, without the chronic underexposure. > > I miss being able to not have to think so hard about flash > > exposures when pre-focusing and recomposing on the Elan. > > So use either an 'automatic' flash unit or see if you cannot > custom function your 300D to use average instead of E-TTL. > (Or ubgrade to a model using E-TTL II.) Curious, what do you mean by automatic? I'm considering a body upgrade because E-TTL seems to not be so hot at least with this body/flash combo. > > Given the algorithm on the 300D and how strongly it weighs the > > selected focus point during exposure, you have to use flash [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You can always recompose and then shift your selected focus > point. (Of course, that means moving AF from the shutter ... Yes you can -- and what I'm saying is that's a pain in the a.s vs how it is with my film Elan, or with teh G2. And using an SLR as advanced as the ones we're dealing with shouldn't have to be more cumbersome to achieve a good flash exposure than using the point and shoot G2. > > The Sigma flash may be a route to this gentler time. > > It's the camera that tells the flash how much power to dump. > Unless you have an 'automatic' flash unit, which looks like any > old stupid manual flash to the camera. So can you hazard an explanation why the G2 performs so much better htan the 300D in telling my 550EX how much power to dump? > > All I'm saying is that life with a 550EX, despite the expense, is > > not all roses. > > Ah, but is that the fault of the 550EX, or of the 300D or of E-TTL > (versus average, versuss E-TTL 2) or is pre-focus and recompose > maybe not the best idea (i.e. operator error?) Any of these variables can be tweaked to achieve good results. The operator can take an extra second every shot and confuse the subjects with a preflash and using FEL. The 550EX could be swapped for a Sigma flash which in other reports I can't currently locate does a much better job in the face of this chronic underexposure issue with the 550EX, or maybe E-TTL-II fixes some of this lousiness. Which specific component is to blame? Dunno. But my original point to the original poster is "don't count out Sigma in your choice. Don't assume the Canon flash will do the best job for ya." Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ > But here's another basis of my gripe with 300D+550EX: > That same 550EX on my much older Canon G2 ... gives > wonderfully balanced flash pictures, without the chronic > underexposure. Then the 550EX is cleared of all fault (and likely any other system would give the same result) since it's obviously the 300D that causes, ah, conservative exposure. >> So use either an 'automatic' flash unit or see if you cannot > Curious, what do you mean by automatic? One where the camera simply triggers the flash like any old manual unit, and the flash has a light-sensitive cell which shuts off the flash after enough light has been reflected into it. > I'm considering a body upgrade because E-TTL seems to not be so hot > at least with this body/flash combo. E-TTL is a bt ... problematic, I hear. E-TTL II is said to be much better. Do rent a 350D or 20D or 30D over a weekend and try if the flash results are better, then you know for certain and have, at worst, spent much less than buying a body blindly. (OTOH, some claim that the Nikon flash system is the best thing since sliced bread.) >> You can always recompose and then shift your selected focus >> point. (Of course, that means moving AF from the shutter ... > Yes you can -- and what I'm saying is that's a pain in the a.s vs how > it is with my film Elan, or with teh G2. And using an SLR as advanced > as the ones we're dealing with shouldn't have to be more cumbersome to > achieve a good flash exposure than using the point and shoot G2. Remember that the 300D is the cheapest DSLR there was at the time. > So can you hazard an explanation why the G2 performs so much better > htan the 300D in telling my 550EX how much power to dump? Maybe because the 300D is set to be conservative, and the G2 isn't and you don't like the conservative setting? > But my original point to the original poster is "don't count out Sigma > in your choice. Don't assume the Canon flash will do the best job for > ya." I don't see how the Sigma will dump consistently more power than the camera asks for, and if it does, why you simply cannot set the 550EX as per manual page 36: - press SEL/SET until the flash-± symbol is on - press the + a couple of times - press SEL/SET again ? Or are the Sigma flashes doing their own metering? -Wolfgang >> So use either an 'automatic' flash unit or see if you cannot >> custom function your 300D to use average instead of E-TTL. >> (Or ubgrade to a model using E-TTL II.) > Curious, what do you mean by automatic? http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html#uafe ("Auto" = "automatic").  Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks a lot! I bought the Canon 430 for my 5D and I'm very satisfied. Some will point you to the 580, but the 430 does just fine for me. SignatureScott in Florida 'The land of the free because of the brave' If you have plenty of money to spend, the 420EX, 430EX, 550EX, 580EX are very good. If you are trying to spend only a little, the 380EX works with the digital SLRs and is much better than the 220EX. If you look on the used market, you'll find that they are quite inexpensive. It has a GN of 38 meters at ISO100 and tilts up and down (but not left and right), does high speed flash sync, E-TTL, and has an auto zooming head (24-105mm settings). It also does first and second curtain flash sync. The 380EX doesn't give you all of the creative options of the new models as it is mostly automatic. It was the precurser to the 420EX that replaced it. The camera controls for flash exposure compensation and flash exposure lock work though, and it provides a red focus assist light so you don't get the rediculous strobing from the camera that the built in does in low light. I enjoy mine and it does what I need. But you may have other needs like being able to flash backward into an umbrella or radio control, or even more power, etc. An excellent article covering pretty much all of the isses with Canons and flashes is here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks a lot! What about sunpak, metz, and sigma? > What about sunpak, metz, and sigma? I don't know if Sunpak has a high power E-TTL flash. Metz 54 MZ has non-TTL automatic mode, and can be fitted to different brands. If you don't need these features, I'd recommend Canon 580EX/550EX. Metz 54 AF is E-TTL dedicated. It is not that much cheaper than Canon 550EX. Sigma EF 500 DG ST is priced very low in comparison. More featured Sigma EF 500 DG Super is more expensive. http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash > Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. > Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to > look. I'm amateour photographer and I don't want to spend soo much > money. Sunpak 383 Super (around $70-90). For a longer discussion, see: http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html . Signature- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Recently I bough a Canon D20 camera, but I don't have a flash yet. > > Could anybody please, give me an advice what kind of flash to > > look. I'm amateour photographer and I don't want to spend soo much > > money. > > Sunpak 383 Super (around $70-90). E-TTL Sigma EF 500 DG is not that much more expensive. Non-TTL auto flash is OK if you want a bright flash to be your main light. If you want low light fill flash, then you need E-TTL. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with non-TTL auto flash for this, but there is no non-TTL auto flash that can be set to very low power for low light fill. http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash |
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