 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006Canon's response to Nikon 10MP
I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. The Rebel XT is getting cheaper at Costco, and rumor has it that the 30D is getting cheaper too. Will Canon put out a 10MP version of the 30D next? Or maybe 11MP, so its less MP than the 5D, but still more than the new Nikon. How long until a Rebel 10+ MP? And what about Sony? Will a 12MP version of the DSC-R1 hit the stores in time for the holidays? Peace, -chasfs http://chasfs.com > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And what about Sony? Will a 12MP version of the DSC-R1 hit the stores > in time for the holidays? They'll release a full-frame, 20-megapixel camera that will shoot 10 FPS with enough buffer for 200 shots, it will take SD or CF, use lithium-ion or AA batteries, shoot 10,000 images on a charge, will have 802.11g wireless, a 4" LCD, weather-sealing, 107-point autofocus, anti-dust, anti-shake, and cost $200. And someone will still complain because they find some slight chromatic aberration at 200% magnification, blaming it on the sensor. steve >> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 4" LCD, weather-sealing, 107-point autofocus, anti-dust, anti-shake, and > cost $200. Aw, crap. It should have GPS, blue tooth and an MP3 player, text messaging, and......  Signaturejohn mcwilliams >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Aw, crap. It should have GPS, blue tooth and an MP3 player, text > messaging, and...... And lets all hope it has a phone. If it has a phone I'll buy two!! SignatureRob "A disturbing new study finds that studies are disturbing" > >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > And lets all hope it has a phone. If it has a phone I'll buy two!! Only if its a satphone! Gerrit - Oz (where coverage for normal GSM is non existent outside of populated areas) > >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Rob > "A disturbing new study finds that studies are disturbing" SignatureDon't forget broadband internet access. -- Bill in Lake Charles >> >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> And lets all hope it has a phone. If it has a phone I'll buy two!! With VPN access to your home server, so all your images can be sendt to your file server @ home... ;-) BTW, 20 Mp is not good enough. Let's make that 80 Mp. It should also have a 10-1000 mm F 1,2 zoom... SignatureJørn Dahl-Stamnes http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/ >>>>>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >>>>>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > BTW, 20 Mp is not good enough. Let's make that 80 Mp. It should also have a > 10-1000 mm F 1,2 zoom... Well, all righty, then. I think we forgot ISO .01 -> 180,000. And built in CSI software so we can read the fine print on the document 2 miles away and at right angles....before downloading to our special PCs with the zoom features..... I guess Blue tooth would be redundant with wireless firewire?? SignatureJohn McWilliams >>> >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >>> >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > BTW, 20 Mp is not good enough. Let's make that 80 Mp. It should also have > a 10-1000 mm F 1,2 zoom... And fit in a shirt pocket but still look so impressive that people will hire you just from the appearance of your camera. Signature--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) >> With VPN access to your home server, so all your images can be sendt to >> your file server @ home... ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And fit in a shirt pocket but still look so impressive that people will > hire you just from the appearance of your camera. That would be too difficult to make... BTW, I was shooting some pictures at a velodrome some time ago. I used the Canon 500 mm 4.0 IS USM. A woman was more impressed by my lense that of the riders on the velodrome... :-) SignatureJørn Dahl-Stamnes http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/ >BTW, I was shooting some pictures at a velodrome some time ago. I used the >Canon 500 mm 4.0 IS USM. A woman was more impressed by my lense that of the >riders on the velodrome... :-) "Is that a Canon 500mm 4.0 IS USM or are you just pleased to see me??" :-)) > And someone will still complain because they find some slight chromatic > aberration at 200% magnification, blaming it on the sensor. > > steve Rich will complain because the battery compartment door has a plastic catch. > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And what about Sony? Will a 12MP version of the DSC-R1 hit the stores > in time for the holidays? The 1Ds Mk. II replacement (rumoured to be a 22mp unit) is due out in around 6 months - it wouldn't surprice me if they simply shifted the price of all existing models down to the price of the current model below it - so the likes of the 30D becomes entry level, followed closely by the 5D at where the 30D is now. Hope so. >> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > below it - so the likes of the 30D becomes entry level, followed > closely by the 5D at where the 30D is now. I doubt that very much. They seem more inclined to keep their price points fairly stable, choosing instead to bump the specs up under those price points. The 5D may be replaced before long, but I doubt you'll see it drop by half as you suggest. > Hope so. It doesn't hurt to hope...though I already have the 5D, and it's worth every bit of its current price. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > The 1Ds Mk. II replacement (rumoured to be a 22mp unit) is due out in > around [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hope so. Somehow, I doubt that Canon will drop the price of the 5D by about $1000US. That exceeds the definition of wishful thinking... SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com > Somehow, I doubt that Canon will drop the price of the 5D by about > $1000US. That exceeds the definition of wishful thinking... I remember when the Pentium II came out - it was so powerful - so awesome - I remember thinking that we'll never need anything more powerful. And of course now we chuck them (and their successor) away by the truck load. I'm the first to appreciate that microprocessor power increases far quicker than camera technology, but I do believe there will come a time when you'll practically have to add in a small fries and drink to get someone to take a 5D away. In the short term the price of the 5D (and in fact any other camera) is primrily dependant on where it's positioned in their lineup - which is in turn a reflection of what the market is buying - which is in turn dependant on what the competition is doing. I don't think it'll drop over night - but let's see where we're at in 18 to 24 months. > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -chasfs > http://chasfs.com If it's a 10+ MP cropped CMOS that still delivers noiseless images at ISO 400+, with at least 5fps and a spot meter...I'll buy it immediately. Any part of that missing and I'll keep milking my 10D behind my 5D. The 30D is actually very tempting already as it has everything on that list save for a couple MP, but I think the 30D is a stop-gap--much the way the D60 was between the D30 and the 10D release. It won't surprise me at all to see the 30D replaced this fall, and possibly the 1 series. -But who cares what I think? :) SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. I think you overestimate the ability of the competition to respond to specific products. Digital SLR cameras are incredibly complex and expensive things to design and produce. No company is in a position to look at the competition's latest product, say "we'll better that," and 6 weeks later have a factory tooled up to turn out a whole new product. There are no directly competing products being produced, just the next steps along roadmaps that where generated years ago. The best they can do is exercise some discretion with marketing and pricing to get their new products into the market alongside the latest products of the competition. > No company is in a position to > look at the competition's latest product, say "we'll better that," and 6 > weeks later have a factory tooled up to turn out a whole new product. True, but then again I doubt the likes of Canon will have been sitting idle waiting to see what the competition comes out with before starting work on their own competing product. Most seem to come out with products that are fairly predictable linear increases over previous models. > True, but then again I doubt the likes of Canon will have been sitting idle > waiting to see what the competition comes out with before starting work on > their own competing product. > > Most seem to come out with products that are fairly predictable linear > increases over previous models. Canon won't have been idle, they'll have been working steadily on the product range they started planning 2 or 3 years ago. Canon seem more interested in turning out a new device on a very regular basis, rather than turning out devices on a non-regular time interval but that push feature boundaries. The 30D was widely seen as an almost trivial update to the 20D. In some industries the major players publish their product road maps years in advance (like with computer CPUs, for example). I guess if camera manufacturers did that no one would ever buy their recent products! > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 30D next? Or maybe 11MP, so its less MP than the 5D, but still more > than the new Nikon. How long until a Rebel 10+ MP? I would expect Canon to bring out a 12Mp 30D. My guess is that they will never do a 10Mp camera. > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 30D next? Or maybe 11MP, so its less MP than the 5D, but still more > than the new Nikon. How long until a Rebel 10+ MP? And, I should add, a 12Mp 30D will not necessarily be 'better' than the current one. A return to the megapixel race would have a terrible effect on picture quality. The 30D is fine as it is. >> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> 30D next? Or maybe 11MP, so its less MP than the 5D, but still more >> than the new Nikon. How long until a Rebel 10+ MP? >And, I should add, a 12Mp 30D will not necessarily be 'better' than the >current one. A return to the megapixel race would have a terrible >effect on picture quality. The 30D is fine as it is. Especially since we are reaching the point of diminishing returns. The linear resolution goes up as the square root of the number of pixels. Thus in going from 8Mp to 10, there is an increase of 11% in linear resolution. Going to 12Mp gives an increase of about 22%. On the other hand, back a few years, going from 3MP to 6MP was an increase of 40% in linear dimensions. ---- Paul J. Gans >> And, I should add, a 12Mp 30D will not necessarily be 'better' than the >> current one. A return to the megapixel race would have a terrible >> effect on picture quality. The 30D is fine as it is. > > Especially since we are reaching the point of diminishing > returns. Diminishing returns with a detrminet of quality in the offing. Anyone who doubts this need only take a photograph at high iso of the same subjec on both a 30D and a D200, then do a 100% crop and compare the results. It's been demonstrated many times that those two extra MP you get on the D200 is more than lost in noise. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >Diminishing returns with a detrminet of quality in the offing. Anyone >who doubts this need only take a photograph at high iso of the same >subjec on both a 30D and a D200, then do a 100% crop and compare the >results. It's been demonstrated many times that those two extra MP you >get on the D200 is more than lost in noise. I think people are a little too concerned with 100% crops and examining everything in excessive detail. The only thing that really matters is if the final print is acceptable. For instance, I rarely use high ISO settings. I prefer a tripod over turning up the sensitivity. And the few times when I needed a high ISO, I've been quite happy with the results from either Nikon or Canon. Granted, the Canon sensors are better at high ISO. But is it relevant to the person using the camera. >> Diminishing returns with a detrminet of quality in the offing. Anyone >> who doubts this need only take a photograph at high iso of the same [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > everything in excessive detail. The only thing that really matters is if > the final print is acceptable. If that were truly the case, then who needs to buy a 10MP camera anyway? A 6MP job would do just fine for most people. My argument is that if someone is buying 10MP camera, then they most certainly ARE concerned about 100% crops and pixel noise. They're buying high for a reason. Well, most of them anyway. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >>> Diminishing returns with a detrminet of quality in the offing. Anyone >>> who doubts this need only take a photograph at high iso of the same [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >If that were truly the case, then who needs to buy a 10MP camera anyway? Depends on the needs of the user. For instance, the 12mp Canon 5D has similar pixels to a 6mp sensor, but since it's full frame, it has a larger sensor area. If you compared the same images cropped down to match, they would have the same resolution and detail. Just as the 20D has more detail in the same FOV size since it has more densely packed pixels. But do you need full frame and all those pixels from a 5D? > A 6MP job would do just fine for most people. Probably...I know my 8mp is more than enough for my needs and I won't be upgrading just for more megapixels. The Canon 30D was interesting, but to me the price is way too high for the minor improvements. The only feature they added that I really like is the spot meter, but I won't drop $1500 just for that. I likely won't upgrade until full frame cameras hit the $1500 price point, which I anticipate will be a long while yet. >My argument is that if someone is buying 10MP camera, then they most >certainly ARE concerned about 100% crops and pixel noise. They're >buying high for a reason. Well, most of them anyway. Maybe. Maybe not. I've considered upgrading, but I haven't seen anything worthwhile yet, and it won't be to get more pixels (except full frame). A friend upgraded from the Nikon D70s to the D200, but it wasn't for the extra pixels - he wanted a better camera body with more control and a better feature set, at a reasonable price. That's what makes the upcoming new Nikon body interesting - it should have a more robust feature set and a similar or lower price than the D70s when it was first made available. > My argument is that if someone is buying 10MP camera, then they most > certainly ARE concerned about 100% crops and pixel noise. They're > buying high for a reason. Well, most of them anyway. I think that Nikon users would have been happy with a 8Mp D200 that had lower high-ISO noise (followed of course by a 20Mp, full-frame, Nikon professional D-SLR). >> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > current one. A return to the megapixel race would have a terrible > effect on picture quality. The 30D is fine as it is. This is true. Canon is usually conservative on megapixels because of noise issues. Unless they have some sort of new sensor (there were rumors of a multi-layer sensor) an increase in megapixels will likely come from a larger (full-frame sensor). One of the rumors is a lower cost version of the 5D. I hope that Canon doesn't get caught up in a race to the bottom in terms of pixel size and noise. >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I hope that Canon doesn't get caught up in a race to the bottom in terms > of pixel size and noise. I would have thought affordable full frame would be the next race. I'm expecting an Eos 3D which will be a 5D with minor tweaks as the 30D was to the 20D. They don't want to divide the market up anymore than they have to. They'd just end up splitting the revenue up so any introduction will result in an existing model being phased out. As the cash back extension is being made on the 5D that is the best indication this model is in for the chop. > >>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > >>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > in an existing model being phased out. As the cash back extension is being > made on the 5D that is the best indication this model is in for the chop. My contention has always been bring on a 14 Mp affordable dslr at say a PP of 3k and you have skads of pro's and semi pro's scurrying to buy one. At that PP and MP resolution I would drop MF photography for the ease afforded. SignatureReality-Is finding that perfect picture and never looking back. www.gregblankphoto.com >>>>> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >>>>> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > At that PP and MP resolution I would drop MF photography for the ease > afforded. ?? The 5D is already there (an insignificant 1.2MP short of that at 12.8MP) and under $3K. It's in my camera bag. SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson >> In article <mL5Ag.37828$F8.20609@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, >> My contention has always been bring on a 14 Mp affordable dslr at say >> a PP of 3k and you have skads of pro's and semi pro's scurrying to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and under $3K. > It's in my camera bag. So, ya finally broke down and got one, eh? <G> SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com >>> In article <mL5Ag.37828$F8.20609@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> > So, ya finally broke down and got one, eh? <G> Woo hoo! :) SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson SNIP >> So, ya finally broke down and got one, eh? <G> > > Woo hoo! > :) Resistance is futile ..., have fun. Bart >> My contention has always been bring on a 14 Mp affordable dslr at say >> a PP of 3k and you have skads of pro's and semi pro's scurrying to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >under $3K. >It's in my camera bag. The 5D is a decent camera, but it lacks a few things that would really make it stand out, like weather seals, faster frame rate, faster AF, and perhaps an integrated battery grip. Of course then it would bite into 1D sales. I'm waiting for the above in a $999 version. :-) >>> My contention has always been bring on a 14 Mp affordable dslr at >>> say a PP of 3k and you have skads of pro's and semi pro's scurrying [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > :-) Ya, those things are on my wish-list (gripe list) too, BUT... After shooting with it for three weeks in Ukraine, I haven't had even a single dust spot on the sensor!! That's pretty good... I'd also have to say that the focus speed on the 5D is excellent, as well as accurate. Frame rate is only 3fps, but at 13MP, that's to be expected I guess. I was hoping for the mythical "3D" with integrated grip, but the full metal grip (BG-E4) is fantastic. Very solid compared with previous grips for the 10D, etc. No creaking or flex. Rock solid. Again...I understand your gripes because I shared them prior to finally buying the 5D. But since having made the purchase and using it in the field, I am VERY happy with it. -Mark² SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson I'm waiting for the Canon 3D. The Canon EOS3 came after the EOS 1(&N) and EOS 5 and offered a 'cheaper' amateur body but with more AF sensors etc. We have had the EOS1D range and now the EOS5D so I'm hoping... > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -chasfs > http://chasfs.com > I'm waiting for the Canon 3D. > > The Canon EOS3 came after the EOS 1(&N) and EOS 5 and offered a > 'cheaper' amateur body but with more AF sensors etc. We have had the > EOS1D range and now the EOS5D so I'm hoping... I was hoping for the 3D a while back, but finally settled on the 5D. I think the fake 3D (smaller, but permanently-connected viertical grip) as concocted last year by rumor generators would sell a gozillion, but Canon has to decide what they want to do. >> I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And >> guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> -chasfs >> http://chasfs.com SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 30D next? Or maybe 11MP, so its less MP than the 5D, but still more > than the new Nikon. How long until a Rebel 10+ MP? Canon is set to announce new models on August 24th, 2006. The rumors are all over the place, but it's logical that they'll announce a competitor to the D50 and D200, and reportedly they'll announce a higher megapixel full-frame replacement for the 1Ds Mark II, even though they have no competition in the high-end professional market at this time. Historically Canon has been more concerned about overall image quality than megapixels, and has been reluctant to go to extremely small pixel sizes due to the noise issues, so unless this changes, or they have a new sensor technology, I wouldn't hold my breath for a 11 MP, 1.6 crop factor model. I think Canon will introduce a lower cost version of the 5D, which is too expensive compared to the D200, though the 5D is much better in terms of noise because of the larger sensor. Maybe they'll shift the existing models to lower price points when the new top end models is released, i.e. an $8000 1Ds Mark III, $5000 1Ds Mark II, and a $2000 5D. Few buyers, that are not already lens-committed, would choose a $1700 D200 over a $2000 5D. Ah, the megapixel wars. How about an 11.1 or an 11.2? Just buy a 39 MP Hasselblad and be done with it. :) Kevin > I'm getting excited by all of the new camera talk from Nikon! And > guessing about the competitive moves from the competition. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -chasfs > http://chasfs.com |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.