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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2006

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Archiving & Labeling Photo CDs

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Randy W. Sims - 05 Jul 2006 08:35 GMT
How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
What about the touched up photos; Do you store them together or separately?

How do you label your CDs? What software do you use for labeling? And
what information do you put on the labels?

Is that too many questions? Are there any more that I forgot to ask?

Thanks,
Randy.
Celcius - 05 Jul 2006 13:01 GMT
> How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> Randy.

Hi Randy!
I store on DVD's (would be same for CD's)
I use my Epson Stylus Photo R300 to print the title on the DVD.
I include both originals and touched up photos.
The title reads somewhat like this:
For one series: 06-07-05_title or could be this way: 2006-07-05_title
For many series: 2004-03 to 2006-07 family photos
Essentially, you try to ensure that in the future, you can easily know in
which DVD you will find what you're looking for. I chose dates and a title.
Hope this helps,
Marcel
Roger Moss - 05 Jul 2006 13:27 GMT
> Essentially, you try to ensure that in the future, you can easily know in
> which DVD you will find what you're looking for. I chose dates and a
> title.
> Hope this helps,
> Marcel

If you have a mainstream database app like MS (Office) Access it's quite
simple to set up a listing of everything you shoot, with date, location,
subject, etc. I've done this for years, with many thousands of images - both
transparencies and digitals. Point its, as you'll be numbering sequentially,
all (i.e. the minimum) you need put on each disk is the number range from
your database. Then, when you search the list to find any image you're after
accessing, the entry (including number) will come up right away.

The advantage of this over photo-specific systems is that the list file
remains small, and the data will always (?)  be exportable to other formats
if and when things change.

I back up RAWS plus jpeg previews to CDR (700meg is quite enough to build up
ready for transfer), then make safety copies of these onto DVD. One never
knows...

Good luck.

RM
Pat - 05 Jul 2006 13:44 GMT
I use a slick piece of software for color labeling called "Sharpie".
It allows for an almost unlimited number of designs and any font you
care to use, if you have the ability to produce it.  The working end of
the Sharpie system is very soft and works quite well.

Hardware labeling system, use as "Ball Point" risk damaging the disks.
The working end is much too hard.

"Sharpie" is reasonably cheap (but unfortunately not freeware) and
widely available.  This system works rapidly and requires few computer
resources.

One could consider it an almost "low tech" option.

> How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> Randy.
PTravel - 06 Jul 2006 20:58 GMT
>I use a slick piece of software for color labeling called "Sharpie".
> It allows for an almost unlimited number of designs and any font you
> care to use, if you have the ability to produce it.  The working end of
> the Sharpie system is very soft and works quite well.

Hey, that's what I use!  Are you using version 2.0, or have you tried the
beta Sharpie release?

> Hardware labeling system, use as "Ball Point" risk damaging the disks.
> The working end is much too hard.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> Thanks,
>> Randy.
Pat - 09 Jul 2006 01:16 GMT
I use the Sparpie RT -- the retractable version.  Only the best....

> >I use a slick piece of software for color labeling called "Sharpie".
> > It allows for an almost unlimited number of designs and any font you
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> >> Thanks,
> >> Randy.
elcoggins@bee.net - 06 Jul 2006 01:15 GMT
The first thing I do after I get home from a shoot is to download my
digital images into an appropriate labeled folder on my hard drive.
Next I burn a CD-R or a DVD-R or DVD+R. (Do not archive to a CD-RW or a
DVD-RW.) Then I open Photoshop Bridge and start to process the images.

Do keep in mind that the most vulnerable part of a CD or DVD to
chemical attack is the TOP! Do not use a Sharpie or a felt tip pen. Do
not use a self stick lable in that it to can chemically damage the thin
protective lawer on the top of the CD or DVD.

For labeling the CD or DVD, use a special marking pen made by Delkin
under the name of eFilm. It is a solvent free black pen made just for
archived CD and DVDs.

When burning a CD or DVD, run at a slower speed so as to asure a "deep"
pit. For really important work, special CD and DVDs that use gold as
opposed to an aluminum substrate are desirable. They are also made by
Delkin and found at B&H. Also other brands are available at
datamediastore.com.

Use the same procedure for your finished images. However, save them as
TIFF or PSD files as apposed to JPEGs. Even though a JPEG will not lose
any detail on the CD, it will on your HD. Every time you open a JPEG
and resave it, compression losses occur.

Hope this helps.

Gene

> How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> Randy.
Randy W. Sims - 07 Jul 2006 01:34 GMT
> The first thing I do after I get home from a shoot is to download my
> digital images into an appropriate labeled folder on my hard drive.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> not use a self stick lable in that it to can chemically damage the thin
> protective lawer on the top of the CD or DVD.

Is this true? I picked up a pack of Memorex labels which I planned to
use with the SureThing software included to print out some labels for
the CDs. Will they really damage the CD or is it more theoretical
possibility? I did a brief search but only found something about labels
not put on can cause them to shatter in high speed readers???

Thanks,
Randy.

> For labeling the CD or DVD, use a special marking pen made by Delkin
> under the name of eFilm. It is a solvent free black pen made just for
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Hope this helps.
POHB - 06 Jul 2006 13:30 GMT
> How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
> What about the touched up photos; Do you store them together or separately?
>
> How do you label your CDs? What software do you use for labeling? And
> what information do you put on the labels?

I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
How long do you expect a home-burnt disk to be readable?  10 years?  20
years?
Will you still have the software to read a propriatory RAW format in 20
years time?
The only way to ensure digital data is preserved is to keep copying it
to new media and possibly new file formats.  How likely are you to do
that if it involves feeding disk after disk into a reader?
Better to get a decent size hard drive on your PC and a similar size
external removable hard drive for backups.  That way when the time
comes to copy that data across you can do it all in one go.  Sure it
will take a while but you can just kick off the copy and let it run for
however many hours or days it takes.
A 200GB drive will let you take 5x10MB images every day for 10 years,
why mess around with CDs?
Celcius - 06 Jul 2006 15:37 GMT
> > How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> > those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> will take a while but you can just kick off the copy and let it run for
> however many hours or days it takes.

> A 200GB drive will let you take 5x10MB images every day for 10 years,
> why mess around with CDs?

... because HD's can go haywire... and you lose all your data
My friend had a problem with his motherboard. It corrupted his HD and
nothing was retrievable.
Marcel
POHB - 06 Jul 2006 16:40 GMT
> > why mess around with CDs?
> >
> ... because HD's can go haywire... and you lose all your data
> My friend had a problem with his motherboard. It corrupted his HD and
> nothing was retrievable.

Of course, sooner or later your PC or hard drive *will* fail so you
can't read the disk.
That's why I said...

> > Better to get a decent size hard drive on your PC and a similar size
> > external removable hard drive for backups.

Keep the PC's data backed up to the external drive.  Then when you get
a new PC to replace the broken one you can quickly restore your files,
much easier from a single hard drive than hundreds of separate CDs.  In
fact if your files were backed up to hundreds of CDs you wouldn't
bother to restore them would you?  Then you'd only have a single copy,
just the CD with no backup at all.
Also you're more likely to keep decent backups if you can do it with
one click rather than trying to keep track of what you have or haven't
copied to CD and then having to feed lots of disks into the machine.
Mike - 11 Jul 2006 00:07 GMT
> > > why mess around with CDs?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> one click rather than trying to keep track of what you have or haven't
> copied to CD and then having to feed lots of disks into the machine.

Any system can fail given the right circumstances. For example, backup onto an external drive can fail if your PC is
infected with some form of malware that corrupts both the internal drive and the external drive. If you keep the
external drive disconnected during normal operation of the PC you still lose out if a burglar steals both, or if your
house burns down or whatever.

My system is as follows:
1) Download from camera to hard drive.
2) Burn to CD (before clearing camera memory).
3) Copying from hard drive to second internal drive.
4) Copying new CDs onto another hard drive at a different location.

Still at risk from major acts of god (earthquake, tsunami, etc), but safe from hard disk failure, virus/malware, theft,
CD corruption, lightning strike, etc.

Mike
Craig M - 13 Aug 2006 11:21 GMT
Just my 2 cents here, any thing electronic or anything that moves ie. HDD
can go bad or go out, there is not a foolproof way to totaly back up, just
use multi ways, so there will be at least some data, pics backed up some
where, yes its a pain, but Murphy lives on.

> > > How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> > > those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> nothing was retrievable.
> Marcel
elcoggins@bee.net - 07 Jul 2006 00:03 GMT
> I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
> How long do you expect a home-burnt disk to be readable?  10 years?  20
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> A 200GB drive will let you take 5x10MB images every day for 10 years,
> why mess around with CDs?

You need to do your homework! Done properly, A CD or DVD will last 100+
years.

Gene
carl valle - 07 Jul 2006 03:58 GMT
>> I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
>> How long do you expect a home-burnt disk to be readable?  10 years?  20
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Gene

there is no way i would trust a hard disk as a backup. thats why they
make raid boxes. i want a format where the data is stored external to
the machine which is what dvd gives me. also, the fact that dvd, once
written cannot be erased is reassuring. dont use DVD rw as somebody
already mentioned.
wilt - 08 Jul 2006 05:16 GMT
> >> I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
> >> How long do you expect a home-burnt disk to be readable?  10 years?  20
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> written cannot be erased is reassuring. dont use DVD rw as somebody
> already mentioned.

Consider this...the dyes in DVD-R are EASIER to modify than the dyes in
CD-R, because the higher write speeds necessitate it.  Easier to
initially burn = easier for it to be later messed up!

An external USB drive is plenty permanent, and if it is unplugged or
powered off, there is NO way for a bad computer to alter it!  And the
MOST permanent and proven media is MAGNETIC.  No optical media has a
proven 50+ year history in actual time, only magnetics has lasted that
long!
David Dyer-Bennet - 08 Jul 2006 06:27 GMT
> An external USB drive is plenty permanent, and if it is unplugged or
> powered off, there is NO way for a bad computer to alter it!  And the
> MOST permanent and proven media is MAGNETIC.  No optical media has a
> proven 50+ year history in actual time, only magnetics has lasted that
> long!

And magnetics very very rarely last that long.  Magtape is regarded as
ancient and likely to be unreadable at 10 years.  I've already got CDs
older than that with no signs of trouble yet.
Signature

David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

J. Clarke - 08 Jul 2006 14:17 GMT
>> >> I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
>> >> How long do you expect a home-burnt disk to be readable?  10 years?
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> An external USB drive is plenty permanent, and if it is unplugged or
> powered off, there is NO way for a bad computer to alter it!

No, but there are several ways for a bad cat or a bad dog or a bad toddler
to alter it.

> And the
> MOST permanent and proven media is MAGNETIC.  No optical media has a
> proven 50+ year history in actual time, only magnetics has lasted that
> long!

What specific magnetic media has demonstrably remained reliably readable
after 50 years in storage?

As for optical media remaining readable, well, that depends on how you
define "optical media".  Archaeologists have a good knowledge of the
Sumerian beverage industry courtesy of cuneiform tablets several thousand
years old.

Signature

--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wilt - 08 Jul 2006 05:12 GMT
> > I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.

> You need to do your homework! Done properly, A CD or DVD will last 100+
> years.
>
> Gene

Tell the 100 year story to my daughter, whose many CDs full of music
which she custom burned from her pre-recorded music collection are now
unreadable!!!

--wilt
David Dyer-Bennet - 08 Jul 2006 06:26 GMT
> > > I'd contend that CDs (or DVDs) are a poor way to archive photos.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> which she custom burned from her pre-recorded music collection are now
> unreadable!!!

I dunno how she's treating them; but I was poking through my oldest
burnable CDs yesterday, and had not the slightest problem reading any
of them (going back to somewhere around 1993; not all THAT old yet).
Signature

David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Debi - 08 Jul 2006 16:11 GMT
You could always send your images to PhotoMax.  They have a digital
Photo-Saver where they create the CD or DVD's for you.  Plus, you can
archive your files forever on their server.  They back-up their servers
daily and keep it in a granite vault.

To set up a free account go to dvoris.myphotomax.com.  You will get 20
4x6 and 1 8x10 FREE when you set up an account.

Debi
> How do you archive your Photos? Do you store your Raw files on CD? For
> those using DNG, do archive both to CD? Together or to separate discs?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> Randy.
 
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