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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2006

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The megapixel race heats up again

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Roy Smith - 20 Jun 2006 04:01 GMT
Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
comes this...

http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300
Mick Anderson - 20 Jun 2006 08:06 GMT
> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
> comes this...
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

I hope they increase the size of CF cards by the same amount.
Arthur Small - 20 Jun 2006 14:16 GMT
I don't believe that the average photographer, or even most pros will be
able to afford this.
If it was developed for the government you can guess how much it cost.

www.alldigital.fotopic.net
Thomas T. Veldhouse - 20 Jun 2006 14:51 GMT
> I don't believe that the average photographer, or even most pros will be
> able to afford this.
> If it was developed for the government you can guess how much it cost.
>
> www.alldigital.fotopic.net 

NO pro can afford it.  It is built for a telescope as a one shot.  I am sure
the chip probably cost in the hundreds of thousdand dollars.

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ian - 20 Jun 2006 15:00 GMT
>I don't believe that the average photographer, or even most pros will be
>able to afford this.
> If it was developed for the government you can guess how much it cost.

several times more than it should have and 4x the original estimate.
DoN. Nichols - 21 Jun 2006 01:37 GMT
According to ian <where@remyposts.com>:

> >I don't believe that the average photographer, or even most pros will be
> >able to afford this.
> > If it was developed for the government you can guess how much it cost.
>
> several times more than it should have and 4x the original estimate.

    But -- now that they have proven that it is possible, there
will be less expensive spinoffs from this -- perhaps for mounting behind
a Hasselblad or perhaps in a 4x5 view camera.  Not exactly everyday
photographer use, but high-end professionals perhaps.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
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Alan Browne - 23 Jun 2006 12:48 GMT
> I don't believe that the average photographer, or even most pros will be
> able to afford this.
> If it was developed for the government you can guess how much it cost.

Well, duh.  And nobody could afford their own IBM-360 30 years ago
either.  As the article says it's for the Astrometry Department of the
U.S. Naval Observatory.

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tomm42 - 20 Jun 2006 14:26 GMT
> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
> comes this...
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

Right now we are working in factors of 10 with each jump in sensor
size. Last I heard the costs were something like this:
6mp APS sensor $100
full 35mm sensor  $1000
39mp mf sensor $10000
This sensor is 4x4 inches, about 8x area of silicon of the 39mp sensor,
so are we looking at $100000 or $500000, just shows where we will be in
20 years, really want one for my 4x5 though.

Tom

PS, prices are estimates are what was floated around on dpreview about
6 months ago.
Jeff Rife - 20 Jun 2006 14:40 GMT
Roy Smith (roy@panix.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
> comes this...
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

A 12 megapixel APS-C camera has a *much* more impressive sensor than
the one in this link.

The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
megapixels in a APS-C area.  Heck, even at full 35mm sensor size, you
only get 9 megapixels.

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ian - 20 Jun 2006 15:04 GMT
> Roy Smith (roy@panix.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> megapixels in a APS-C area.  Heck, even at full 35mm sensor size, you
> only get 9 megapixels.

By that reckoning what about 8mp compact point and shoot cameras?  I should
think the surrounding mechanisms that exist are what limited the pixel
density.  I should think noise levels need to be extremely low for serious
astrometric stuff.
Jeff Rife - 20 Jun 2006 16:10 GMT
ian (where@remyposts.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> > The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
> > megapixels in a APS-C area.  Heck, even at full 35mm sensor size, you
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> density.  I should think noise levels need to be extremely low for serious
> astrometric stuff.

Any 4-6MP APS-C sensor will have pretty much the same noise level,
assuming similar technologies.  Now, if the referenced sensor *is* a
lot better about noise, then I'd like to see that same technology on
a 8-10MP 35mm sensor...that would be news.

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Prometheus - 20 Jun 2006 19:22 GMT
>ian (where@remyposts.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>> > The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>lot better about noise, then I'd like to see that same technology on
>a 8-10MP 35mm sensor...that would be news.

The limiting noise factor in sensors is the uncertainty in the arrival
of photons (quanta), if you make the individual elements four times the
area they detect four times as many photons and since the uncertainty is
a square law the signal to noise ratio is doubled. Current sensors are
about 30% efficient, doubling that to 60% would only give a noise
improvement of 1.4x.
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ttdaomd@hotmail.com - 20 Jun 2006 19:36 GMT
> The limiting noise factor in sensors is the uncertainty in the arrival
> of photons (quanta), if you make the individual elements four times the
> area they detect four times as many photons and since the uncertainty is
> a square law the signal to noise ratio is doubled. Current sensors are
> about 30% efficient, doubling that to 60% would only give a noise
> improvement of 1.4x.

You are right but I am sure these sensors are cooled and have much
better quantum efficiency and much less noise than the ones we use for
general photography.

Tien
Prometheus - 20 Jun 2006 22:34 GMT
>> The limiting noise factor in sensors is the uncertainty in the arrival
>> of photons (quanta), if you make the individual elements four times the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>better quantum efficiency and much less noise than the ones we use for
>general photography.

They probably are cooled.  Even with cooling and near 100% efficiency
there will be an uncertainty in how many photons arrive at each well
from a uniform source in any given time frame.

See
<http://www.astro.psu.edu/xray/cubic/papers/cubic.cal.spie95/cubic.pcs.ca
libration.html#qe> Note carefully the unrealistic assumption that every
photon gives rise to a pixel detection.

Take a look at
<http://www.palomar.caltech.edu:8000/maintenance/scope/status.tcl> for a
real CCD telescope.

<http://www.ccas.ws/Newsletter.htm>
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Jeff Rife - 21 Jun 2006 03:40 GMT
Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >Any 4-6MP APS-C sensor will have pretty much the same noise level,
> >assuming similar technologies.  Now, if the referenced sensor *is* a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> area they detect four times as many photons and since the uncertainty is
> a square law the signal to noise ratio is doubled.

All true, but if you do the math, the individual "pixel" sensors on the
4"x4" 10Kx10K sensor are pretty much the same size as those on a 10MP
36mm x 24mm (35mm "full frame") sensor, or a 4MP APS-C sensor.  Thus,
the quantum noise levels will be about the same as those on a Nikon D2Hs
or a little better than the Canon EOS 5D, and a little *worse* than the
Canon EOS-1D Mark II N.

This assumes both are used in the same conditions...no cooling of the
sensor, etc.

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John Francis - 20 Jun 2006 16:57 GMT
>> Roy Smith (roy@panix.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>>> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>density.  I should think noise levels need to be extremely low for serious
>astrometric stuff.

Ah, but it's really easy to cool it - just make sure it's not in
direct sunlight and stick a couple of cooling fins on the back.
ttdaomd@hotmail.com - 20 Jun 2006 21:46 GMT
> Ah, but it's really easy to cool it - just make sure it's not in
> direct sunlight and stick a couple of cooling fins on the back.

You must be an engineer!   I have no idea how and exactly where this
chip is going to be used.  On earth, it would obviously not be
effective at dropping the temperature of the chip sufficiently below
ambient temperatures needed to improve noise.  Maybe if it were just
floating in space it would be enough.

Tien
John Francis - 20 Jun 2006 22:49 GMT
>> Ah, but it's really easy to cool it - just make sure it's not in
>> direct sunlight and stick a couple of cooling fins on the back.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>ambient temperatures needed to improve noise.  Maybe if it were just
>floating in space it would be enough.

I assume it's for use in space - nowadays a lot of astrophotography
is done from outside the earth's atmosphere, and that is a locale
where digital photography offers many advantages.  All you need is
a solar panel for power, and a radio transmitter to send the images
back to earth (both of which are probably already present) - no need
for bulky one-use media kept in light-tight enclosures, nor for any
mechanical transport that can operate in a vacuum.
bjw@mambo.ucolick.org - 23 Jun 2006 06:41 GMT
> >> Ah, but it's really easy to cool it - just make sure it's not in
> >> direct sunlight and stick a couple of cooling fins on the back.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> for bulky one-use media kept in light-tight enclosures, nor for any
> mechanical transport that can operate in a vacuum.

Yeah, would that it were that simple.  Electronic detectors
are obviously more practical than film for space use, although
before CCDs, there were other electronic detectors (Reticons,
video tubes, intensified phototubes...)  It's still a lot more
complicated than bolting together a camera, solar panel,
and radio.

The chip is presumably destined for some telescope that
the US Naval Observatory has access to or is building a
CCD camera for. I don't know which one.  They did have a
proposal for an astrometric satellite in one of the NASA
Explorer programs, but I think it was cancelled even before
the current return-to-Mars budget crunch put Explorers
on hold.

CCDs used for astronomical imaging are usually cooled
with either a thermoelectric cooler or liquid nitrogen - if
LN2 is used, there is also usually a electric heater
(or heaters).  One wants to regulate temperature, and keep
humidity from condensing on the dewar window.  It is
important to keep the CCD not only cold, but at a consistent
temperature.  Cold reduces dark current and read noise,
generally.  Consistency means that when you take an
image at one time, and a flat field a few hours later, they
have the same properties (like pixel-to-pixel variations in
sensitivity).  If you can't rely on that, the data will be useless.

Contrary to popular belief, science grade CCDs at the average
ground-based observatory (HST can pick and choose a little
more) are not usually free of cosmetic defects - hot pixels, bad
columns etc).  It's more important to push the envelope of detector
size than to have an absolutely perfect CCD.  Often the users
can combine multiple images to reduce the effects of cosmetic
defects.  If not you usually just suffer the loss of a little bit of
the data.
Prometheus - 20 Jun 2006 19:14 GMT
>Roy Smith (roy@panix.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
>megapixels in a APS-C area.

Not very good resolution, but the larger elements mean less noise, but,
and perhaps you missed the point, it is not an APS-C sensor, it is a low
noise high resolution sensor.

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Jeff Rife - 20 Jun 2006 20:10 GMT
Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
> >megapixels in a APS-C area.
>
> Not very good resolution, but the larger elements mean less noise, but,
> and perhaps you missed the point, it is not an APS-C sensor, it is a low
> noise high resolution sensor.

Where in the article does it say the sensor is "low noise"?  If you
assume that it is low noise because of the lower pixel density, then
an array of 10MP 35mm-sized sensors would equal the "high resolution"
of this unit with about the same noise.

The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
chop the chip into multiple units, and I assume there are no stuck
pixels.

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Prometheus - 20 Jun 2006 22:53 GMT
>Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>> >The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Where in the article does it say the sensor is "low noise"?

I assume that it is low noise, in fact given that it is for astronomical
use it WILL be low noise.

>If you
>assume that it is low noise because of the lower pixel density,

I am assuming that the designers designed it for lower noise, the
possibly large area of the individual elements is one factor.

>then
>an array of 10MP 35mm-sized sensors would equal the "high resolution"
>of this unit with about the same noise.

And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
non-contiguous array without degrading the performance.

>The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
>chop the chip into multiple units,

Why should they want to brake it? Do you think a shop window is
impressive because the manufacturers cut it in to little pieces?

>and I assume there are no stuck
>pixels.

Or the error rate is below the threshold set in the design specs.

P.S. To place your own order for one of these see
<http://www.dalsasemi.com/foundry/ccdprocess.asp>

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RichA - 21 Jun 2006 00:22 GMT
> >Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >> >The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> --
> Ian             G8ILZ

You'll have to forgive DSLR users, they don't know anything about
grades of
CCDs because the products they get are "best effort" products and not
products
built to any kind of spec.  Back thinning, LN cooling, increase blue
sensitivity
and no @#$#@ colour layers or resolution-killing filters are used in
front of that Dalsa thing.  Colour images will be produced by three
different exposures through precision dichroic colour filters.
Jeff Rife - 21 Jun 2006 03:40 GMT
Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >then
> >an array of 10MP 35mm-sized sensors would equal the "high resolution"
> >of this unit with about the same noise.
>
> And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
> non-contiguous array without degrading the performance.

The same way they do today...snap, move, and stitch.  It works very well.

> >The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
> >chop the chip into multiple units,
>
> Why should they want to brake it?

Because it is accelerating too quickly?

No, the point is that silicon is tough to build in large wafers with no
errors.  If there are a few, they just cut (*breaking* it wouldn't be
useful) the chip up and use the good parts.

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DoN. Nichols - 21 Jun 2006 04:40 GMT
According to Jeff Rife  <wevsr@nabs.net>:
> Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> > >then
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> The same way they do today...snap, move, and stitch.  It works very well.

    Hmm ... as long as there is nothing moving in the shot.

> > >The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
> > >chop the chip into multiple units,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> errors.  If there are a few, they just cut (*breaking* it wouldn't be
> useful) the chip up and use the good parts.

    Well ... actually, the wafers *are* broken, after break lines
are either scribed or etched in the wafer.  Quite often, the technique
for breaking is to inflate a rubber sheet pressing it into another
rubber sheet, which combine to try to bend it into a dome shaped curve,
and thus causes breaking along the pre-made scribe lines.

    But just breaking a large sensor may be pretty useless, as
normally the outer border of the sensor has the amplifiers for driving
the signals as they go off the edge of the wafer for processing in the
camera body.  And unless it is very carefully designed, you will lose
functionality in some parts as a result of the break.  Or -- if you
partition it for the break, you will have zones in the sensor which do
nothing -- along the proposed break lines, so the wafer must be designed
either for partitioning into multiple smaller sensors, or to be a single
large one.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
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ian - 21 Jun 2006 12:19 GMT
> According to Jeff Rife  <wevsr@nabs.net>:
>> Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> rubber sheet, which combine to try to bend it into a dome shaped curve,
> and thus causes breaking along the pre-made scribe lines.

erm why not just cut it?

> But just breaking a large sensor may be pretty useless, as
> normally the outer border of the sensor has the amplifiers for driving
> the signals as they go off the edge of the wafer for processing in the
> camera body.

Well breaking up a sensor then reassembly of same would cause these
problems.  Why not just take a shed load of aps c and link together.  I
think the eos 5D is made up of two smaller ones.

 And unless it is very carefully designed, you will lose
> functionality in some parts as a result of the break.  Or -- if you
> partition it for the break, you will have zones in the sensor which do
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
DoN. Nichols - 21 Jun 2006 19:50 GMT
According to ian <where@remyposts.com>:

    [ ... ]

> > Well ... actually, the wafers *are* broken, after break lines
> > are either scribed or etched in the wafer.  Quite often, the technique
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> erm why not just cut it?

    With *what*?  Silicon is very hard and very brittle.  You could
possibly cut it with a diamond disc saw applied edge on, but the problem
is that the kerf (slot width) is a lot wider (thus more wasted silicon
area) than what you get with scribing and breaking.  Plus, the saw can
contaminate the areas adjacent to the cut, so there will probably be a
greater number of failures.

> > But just breaking a large sensor may be pretty useless, as
> > normally the outer border of the sensor has the amplifiers for driving
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> problems.  Why not just take a shed load of aps c and link together.  I
> think the eos 5D is made up of two smaller ones.

    *Two* can work.  As long as one edge is made without any readout
circuitry on it.  Even four can work (with two edges without readout
circuitry), though that it stretching things a bit.  You need room for
the wire bonding pads on the edge to bring in power and bring in clock
signals and out image data.

    And to avoid a gap in the image area, you need to be able to cut
*very* close to the edge of the sensor area, which increases the chance
of damage to the sensors.  Normally, there is a rather large (by
comparison) border around the active areas of the silicon, to minimize
the chances of damage during the "dicing" (the cutting or breaking).
How big are the pixels?  How do you get within one pixel width of the
edge without risking sensor damage?

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
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Jeff Rife - 21 Jun 2006 21:40 GMT
DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>     *Two* can work.  As long as one edge is made without any readout
> circuitry on it.  Even four can work (with two edges without readout
> circuitry), though that it stretching things a bit.  You need room for
> the wire bonding pads on the edge to bring in power and bring in clock
> signals and out image data.

This assumes current design techniques.  You could use a system where the
"wires" go into the back of each pixel sensor and work their way out to
the back of the wafer, which then can have jumpers between wafers.

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DoN. Nichols - 22 Jun 2006 05:23 GMT
According to Jeff Rife  <wevsr@nabs.net>:
> DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >     *Two* can work.  As long as one edge is made without any readout
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> "wires" go into the back of each pixel sensor and work their way out to
> the back of the wafer, which then can have jumpers between wafers.

    I've *seen* attempts to make this sort of thing work.  You come
up with a way to make it work *reliably*, and you will be rich for life.
Part of the problem is that the silicon wafer is *not* an insulator.
Insulators are formed by depositing dopant and then reverse-biasing the
junction so formed.  This is *very* difficult to do on a through hole,
especially when you have hundreds or thousands to make on a single
wafer.

    And I still think that you will have problems cutting the wafers
close enough to the pixels so they can be butt-joined to avoid
interruptions in the pattern of sensors.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.

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Jeff Rife - 21 Jun 2006 21:40 GMT
DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> > > And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
> > > non-contiguous array without degrading the performance.
> >
> > The same way they do today...snap, move, and stitch.  It works very well.
>
>     Hmm ... as long as there is nothing moving in the shot.

Although everything in the universe is moving, stars move *very* slowly,
so it works for this purpose.

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acl - 22 Jun 2006 11:41 GMT
> DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>>>>And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Although everything in the universe is moving, stars move *very* slowly,
> so it works for this purpose.

Slowly relative to what (in both senses)?
Moonstarer - 30 Jun 2006 06:15 GMT
>> DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>>>>>And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Slowly relative to what (in both senses)?
Relative to the sky, they move 15" (arc-seconds) for each second of
time.
DoN. Nichols - 01 Jul 2006 02:28 GMT
According to Moonstarer  <where@ma.i>:

> >> DoN. Nichols (dnichols@d-and-d.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> >>>>>And how would you deliver the image from the telescope to a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Relative to the sky, they move 15" (arc-seconds) for each second of
> time.

    Even better if you have it on a tracking platform -- but this
ignores things like satellites, meteors, and such.
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Prometheus - 21 Jun 2006 07:43 GMT
>Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>> >then
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>The same way they do today...snap, move, and stitch.  It works very well.

The snap is ten or more minutes, the move is ten seconds; might work for
whole sky imaging, but not so good for deep space objects.

>No, the point is that silicon is tough to build in large wafers with no
>errors.  If there are a few, they just cut (*breaking* it wouldn't be
>useful) the chip up and use the good parts.

The chip is designed to deliver the data from the individual elements to
(presumably) the edges of the chip where the interface electronics is
located, if you "cut bits out" they would not have interface electronics
on the edges of them. Much more importantly you would not have 10,000
square millimetres of contiguous sensor.
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ian - 21 Jun 2006 12:16 GMT
"Prometheus" <Prometheus@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
>>chop the chip into multiple units,
>
> Why should they want to brake it? Do you think a shop window is impressive
> because the manufacturers cut it in to little pieces?

The reason for (not breaking it) but making it up from smaller units and
fitting together is simply chip yield.

Even going from aps c to full frame has a cost attached that is more than
the increase in area.  Making one several inches in diameter is a
fabrication plants nightmare, especially when you want as few dead pixels as
possible.  Using several smaller ccds linked together meant that you could
break up the post processing into seperate packages.  As i said before that
is also a likely reason for low density, the processing power required and
then transmitting it to earth gets more difficult exponentially with the
increase in resolution.
Prometheus - 21 Jun 2006 19:44 GMT
>"Prometheus" <Prometheus@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>>The only truly impressive thing about this sensor is that they didn't
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>then transmitting it to earth gets more difficult exponentially with the
>increase in resolution.

Producing a wafer that is completely usable (errors below a specific
threshold) is a nightmare, but it was produced by a fab-lab specializing
in one off devices. Presumably the cost of ensuring that the whole wafer
is good is justifiable, whereas when you are making thousands of wafers
with ten or more devices on each trying to get 100% yeald is not
justifiable for the market. I suspect that alternative of splitting the
image from the telescope across ten sensors is not cheap. I did not
notice any mention that it was to be used in space.

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RichA - 21 Jun 2006 00:17 GMT
> Prometheus (Prometheus@127.0.0.1) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
> > >The 4" x 4" sensor is only 10560 x 10560, which gives you a whopping 4
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> --
> Jeff Rife |

The Canada-France-Hawaii telescope in Hawaii has a 340 Meg sensor
comprised of
a bank of sensors.
Alan Browne - 23 Jun 2006 12:50 GMT
> Roy Smith (roy@panix.com) wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> megapixels in a APS-C area.  Heck, even at full 35mm sensor size, you
> only get 9 megapixels.

1) The art is in having low defects across a massive single piece of Si.
2) High pixel densities = high noise.  The application is Astometry
which requires low noise.  (Probably run it cooled for sensitivity/noise
reasons and it probably didipates a lot of heat to boot).

Cheers,
Alan

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Thomas T. Veldhouse - 20 Jun 2006 14:50 GMT
> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
> comes this...
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

I wonder how noisy that thing is ... only in a 4" by 4" square.

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ttdaomd@hotmail.com - 20 Jun 2006 17:58 GMT
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

Interesting site.  The maker of the sensor in Canada has  FF color
sensor:

FTF4027C  11 Megapixel Color CCD 4008 x 2672 9 x 9µm 36.1mm x 24mm

Now why won`t they put that in a Nikon body!  Please!!!

Tien
ian - 21 Jun 2006 12:21 GMT
Roy Smith wrote:

> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

Interesting site.  The maker of the sensor in Canada has  FF color
sensor:

FTF4027C  11 Megapixel Color CCD 4008 x 2672 9 x 9µm 36.1mm x 24mm

Now why won`t they put that in a Nikon body!  Please!!!

cos you'd need a pentium 4 to process the image.  Once the necessary
batteries fitted could you lift the damn thing ;P
Tien
Alan Browne - 23 Jun 2006 12:46 GMT
> Just when you were starting to feel smug with your 12 Mpix camera, along
> comes this...
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300

Nice to know my home province can produce such things.  So for La Fête
St-Jean "Vive le Québec!"

Cheers,
Alan
 
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