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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2006

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Pictures from the new Sony a DSLR

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RichA - 08 Jun 2006 17:13 GMT
http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100

This fellow must have gotten one for testing somehow.
bmoag - 08 Jun 2006 21:06 GMT
If I had a collection of Minolta autofocus lenses I would have one of these
on order already. However having used Sony's prior top end, albeit EVF,
cameras I would have to hope that Sony has taken on Minolta's experience in
camera control systems and workflows that would appeal to working
photographers rather than the type of programming evident in the 828 and DSC
r1 cameras. I would compare Sony's design and usability features of those
cameras to the interior contols system design of current BMWs. Everyone
loves BMWs but then ask them about the center I wheel control, placement of
controls on the dash and steering wheel and the usual reply is, "you get
used to it."
Scott W - 08 Jun 2006 21:40 GMT
> If I had a collection of Minolta autofocus lenses I would have one of these
> on order already. However having used Sony's prior top end, albeit EVF,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> controls on the dash and steering wheel and the usual reply is, "you get
> used to it."

At least Sony finally has a camera that can take a raw file and not
spend all day doing it.

The bad performance of the R1 when shooting raw was more then enough to
rule it out for me, this was a major problem on the F828.

I did use the F828 for a long time and as far as the controls are
concerned, well I got use to them. You had to go through menus just to
change the ISO, but since that camera really was not much good past ISO
64 you did not change it often.

Scott
RichA - 08 Jun 2006 23:52 GMT
> If I had a collection of Minolta autofocus lenses I would have one of these
> on order already. However having used Sony's prior top end, albeit EVF,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> controls on the dash and steering wheel and the usual reply is, "you get
> used to it."

What is good is that Sony (logically) is going after the beginners with
what looks like
a terrifically-priced entry camera, and they will likely go for it,
many never having owned
an SLR and therefore they aren't plagued by biases that force them to
go with Canon
or Nikon.  At the same time, they have no biases as regard controls.
They probably don't
even expect a DSLR to look like an old SLR.  But the intriguing thing
is that Sony is supposedly going to go after the mid-high end too, and
if they penetrate that, it will be
a major accomplishment for a "newcomer" to the field of SLRs.
ian - 09 Jun 2006 01:20 GMT
>> If I had a collection of Minolta autofocus lenses I would have one of
>> these
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> if they penetrate that, it will be
> a major accomplishment for a "newcomer" to the field of SLRs.

Sony has the fabrication plants and R+D budget plus the brand dominance to
compete.  They could even take a hit on entry level to the point of loss
leader in order to gain market share.  Pretty much how canon relies on the
rest of its business to subsidise cameras.  They still end up costing more
than the competition but people are prepared to pay extra for canon
products.  The rest are slitting their own throats on prices.  This will
only lessen their brand value.

Sony went after the hybrid part of the market.  Got good reviews.  their
compacts got good reviews.  Their stuff is also the pricier quality stuff
not the 'Slit me own throat' price bracket.  This is probably a test the
water campaign.  mid range SLR will be determined on the success of this
one.  High end prosumer will be determined by mid range and so on.  They got
a good name in the camcorder market, then there is the nostalgia of the
minolta lens owners.  Making the existing flash guns compatible would be a
shrewd move.  EVen if they have to make an adapter cos KM have a unique
flash connection layout on the hot shoe.
Geir Eivind Mork - 09 Jun 2006 03:57 GMT
ian skrev:

> not the 'Slit me own throat' price bracket.  This is probably a test the
> water campaign.  mid range SLR will be determined on the success of this
> one.  High end prosumer will be determined by mid range and so on.  They got

Hope they understand alot of the 7 serie owners are waiting for the 7d
replacement.

> a good name in the camcorder market, then there is the nostalgia of the
> minolta lens owners.  

We who own several Minolta lenses have ofcourse been waiting for Sony to
get out the plans.

> Making the existing flash guns compatible would be a
> shrewd move.  EVen if they have to make an adapter cos KM have a unique
> flash connection layout on the hot shoe.

The a100 seem to have the same hotshoe as Minolta have had since the
second AF generation. should there be compability issues?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0606/sonya100-big.jpg

http://www.travel-images.com/slr-konica-minolta-7d.jpg

see, same hotshoe.
Ruman - 10 Jun 2006 08:10 GMT
> ian skrev:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> see, same hotshoe.

Actually this new DSLR is really a KM 5D/7D body with D200's sensor in
it.
I believe DCResource covered it better than DPReview
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dslr_a100-review/
Kevin Agard - 10 Jun 2006 09:37 GMT
> Actually this new DSLR is really a KM 5D/7D body with D200's sensor in
> it.

Actually a 5D, not a 7D.
w.beckley@gmail.com - 09 Jun 2006 08:50 GMT
On the subject of lenses, anyone know who will be designing the glass
for the Alpha Series cameras? I'm guessing Minolta, Zeiss, or both. Do
Sony's contracts with Minolta and Zeiss prohibit one or the other from
working on lenses of these cameras?

And Sony's not planning on doing any of the lens design in-house,
right? I trust them for electronics, but optics are another story.

Here's to the pipe dream of a series of APS-C specific Zeiss primes.

Will
RichA - 09 Jun 2006 21:02 GMT
> On the subject of lenses, anyone know who will be designing the glass
> for the Alpha Series cameras? I'm guessing Minolta, Zeiss, or both. Do
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Will

Optics?  Check out some of their video and television camera lenses.
They should be capable of doing DSLR lenses easily.  Whether they want
to as opposed to contracting it out is another issue.
w.beckley@gmail.com - 12 Jun 2006 20:03 GMT
> Optics?  Check out some of their video and television camera lenses.
> They should be capable of doing DSLR lenses easily.  Whether they want
> to as opposed to contracting it out is another issue.

Well, Zeiss makes all of their worthwhile glass for digital still
cameras and consumer camcorders, and all of their professional
camcorders use a standard B4 mount, and usually are sold with Canon or
Fujinon glass if they are sold with an included lens at all. I am
unaware of any Sony-designed lenses on anything other than perhaps
their lowest-grade digital still cameras.

Will
derek_c@cix.compulink.co.uk - 15 Jun 2006 05:34 GMT
> *From:* "RichA" <rander3127@gmail.com>
> *Date:* 9 Jun 2006 13:02:38 -0700
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> They should be capable of doing DSLR lenses easily.  Whether they want
> to as opposed to contracting it out is another issue.

If you look at the Sony Alpha web pages they're promising a range which
seems to be a mixture of ex-Minolta and Carl Zeiss lenses.
Dmac - 09 Jun 2006 23:55 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>
> This fellow must have gotten one for testing somehow.

There was a PJ release. That's how he "got one" along with other
selected Journos who are know to be biased towards Sony.

The interest pic in all these is the ISO 1600 shot. A oddity of
exposures is that in bright sunlight, there is not a lot of noise in
most DSLRs at ISO 1600. You get noise as the light falls off but there
are no low light ISO 1600 examples. I suspect they will just be a
re-hash of the Minolta.
Pete D - 10 Jun 2006 00:58 GMT
>> http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> ISO 1600. You get noise as the light falls off but there are no low light
> ISO 1600 examples. I suspect they will just be a re-hash of the Minolta.

Why would you expect that?     It is a new sensor so I would expect
it to perform as expected for that sensor.
Bill - 10 Jun 2006 03:46 GMT
>> The interest pic in all these is the ISO 1600 shot. A oddity of exposures
>> is that in bright sunlight, there is not a lot of noise in most DSLRs at
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Why would you expect that?     It is a new sensor so I would expect
> it to perform as expected for that sensor.

Who told you it was a new sensor...?
Pete D - 10 Jun 2006 08:43 GMT
>>> The interest pic in all these is the ISO 1600 shot. A oddity of
>>> exposures
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Who told you it was a new sensor...?

You think they can magically make a 10MP sensor from the old 6MP one??
Bill - 10 Jun 2006 21:00 GMT
>>>> The interest pic in all these is the ISO 1600 shot. A oddity of
>>>> exposures
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>You think they can magically make a 10MP sensor from the old 6MP one??

No, I think it's the same CCD as the one in the Nikon D200, which means
it's not really new, it's just in a different body.

I believe the other poster meant that it'll be somewhat "plug and play"
so-to-speak, where the sensor is merely dropped into the Minolta 5D body
with some modifications to make it work, rather than a totally new
camera, and I agree.

Sony has the technology and resources to make a really good camera if
they wanted to please their customers. But instead I think they opted to
put themselves in the DSLR market with a big number (people STILL buy
based on megapixels instead of performance), at the lowest possible cost
in order to garner sales and draw ignorant people away from Nikon and
Canon.

I used to like Sony years ago...until they got cheap and started to
gouge their loyal consumer base with overpriced junk from the dozens of
cheap companies they bought up and converted to the Sony name.

I fully expect the a100 to be another lump of coal amongst the diamonds.
Oh I'm sure it'll be a fine camera...it just won't be in the same family
of what Sony used to sell years ago.
Dmac - 10 Jun 2006 03:53 GMT
>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Why would you expect that?     It is a new sensor so I would expect
>  it to perform as expected for that sensor.

New sensors are in nearly all new cameras. They still have the maker's
feel to them. If this is a Minolta based camera, with a motor drive in
the body, it will work and feel like a Minolta SLR. Anyone with an
original AF Minolta will feel right at home with one.
Pete D - 10 Jun 2006 08:44 GMT
>>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> body, it will work and feel like a Minolta SLR. Anyone with an original AF
> Minolta will feel right at home with one.

But the sensor is a Sony one, same as in the D200 and probably same
as what will be in the 10MP Pentax if is ever happens.
RichA - 10 Jun 2006 06:07 GMT
> > http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> are no low light ISO 1600 examples. I suspect they will just be a
> re-hash of the Minolta.

Which Minolta 10 meg is it a rehash of?
Dmac - 10 Jun 2006 06:55 GMT
>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Which Minolta 10 meg is it a rehash of?

You're being pedantic Rich. Sony are past masters at reinventing the
wheel. All they'll do is add a different sensor to an existing camera
and re-badge it as a Sony.
Pete D - 10 Jun 2006 08:45 GMT
>>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> wheel. All they'll do is add a different sensor to an existing camera and
> re-badge it as a Sony.

????????????????????????????????????? Ke?
RichA - 10 Jun 2006 16:05 GMT
> >>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> wheel. All they'll do is add a different sensor to an existing camera
> and re-badge it as a Sony.

Doesn't really matter.  Except for some bodies that have been
criticized for their
lack of ergonomics (due to size, for instance like the Rebel XT) most
plastic DLSRs
are physically interchangeable. The sensor is the key and a 6 meg
Minolta to a 10
meg is a big jump.
Dmac - 10 Jun 2006 23:47 GMT
>>>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Minolta to a 10
> meg is a big jump.

I agree but that need to be tempered with the evidence that increasing
the size of a CCD past 6 Mp produces side effects no CCD maker has been
able to successfully master. The fiasco of the D200 sensor woes is
evidence enough that not only can Sony not get it right first time, they
can't provide enough supply either.
RichA - 11 Jun 2006 03:22 GMT
> >>>>>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
> >>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> evidence enough that not only can Sony not get it right first time, they
> can't provide enough supply either.

Interesting though that Sony went with a 10 meg CCD with this model as
opposed to using the 10 meg CMOS from the R-1.
David Kilpatrick - 04 Jul 2006 12:53 GMT
>> http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> are no low light ISO 1600 examples. I suspect they will just be a
> re-hash of the Minolta.

Most of the European photo press - above a certain level - got invited
to the official launch of the Alpha in Morocco. I 'got one' for about 45
minutes in total with three days of waiting surrounding that 45 minutes,
in a location not of my own choosing (would you really pick a tourist
farm-camp in Morocco, in June, in mid-afternoon?).

I'm not biased towards Sony but can fairly claim a bias towards Minolta;
I've run their UK user magazine for 25 years, and somehow managed to be
objective enough to have good relationships with Nikon, Canon, Olympus
etc as a reviewer. I guess in time I may feel a bias towards Sony but so
far in my entire life all I've ever had from them is... one trip to
Morocco only six months after Nikon took everyone to the same place!

I don't hold out much hope of excellent low-light performance. On the
opening night of their conference, we had Berber horsemen and camels
doing a skirmish re-enactment by floodlight; fireworks; tents by
moonlight. On the second night we had floodlit pools and moonlight in a
hotel complex. The cameras were not made available after sundown. We got
to try them only in daylight. It would have been possible I think to
have found a shaded subject, maybe even low light, my error in not doing
so. I also failed to test many other functions of the camera in the
short while I used it.

No loan bodies have been released in the UK. There is one doing the
rounds of SE Europe, which was taken from Morocco, and the results I've
seen have not been good noisewise.

Now have a body on order (from Calumet, not a review model - I prefer to
own my cameras, and I prefer to write up models purchased through
regular channels)

David

Signature

f2photo: articles, news and reviews - www.f2photo.co.uk

Charles - 10 Jun 2006 06:13 GMT
>http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/sony_alpha_100
>
>This fellow must have gotten one for testing somehow.

Are they plastic?
 
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