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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / June 2006

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CF cards or photo bank?

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Peter Wear - 06 Jun 2006 10:40 GMT
A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
cards, or getting a small portable disk storage, maybe 40 gig. I reckon on
needing about 5 gig in total for my trip. I'm wondering if cards and disks
have about the same reliablility, as transfering my shots 'on the run' to
cds or a laptop is not going to be an option. Any experience of failures or
reptations of one being better than the other?
Thank you very much,
Peter
David J Taylor - 06 Jun 2006 11:00 GMT
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I
> have for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> better than the other? Thank you very much,
> Peter

Peter,

We have used the Epson P-2000 (40GB) and found it reliable (although it
would be nice if it were a little faster).  If the trip is important, I
would suggest doing both (i.e. get more memory /and/ a storage device).

Rather than buying, can you borrow memory cards from a friend?

David
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 06 Jun 2006 11:40 GMT
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I
> have for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> be an option. Any experience of failures or reptations of one being
> better than the other? Thank you very much,

Peter, it's always nice to have a few extra memory cards, especially if you
are going to be on the road for extended periods.  Check some of the prices
and rebates for 2GB Lexar and Sandisk CF cards.  The going rate for 2GB CFs
is $80.  So, with or without rebates you should be able to buy them for less
than $80.

I use an Epson P-2000 as a backup storage device that allows me to view my
pictures after transfer.  I shoot exclusively RAW and the P-2000 doesn't
allow zoom viewing with RAW file, which really isn't a problem for me.  Some
say the P-2000 is a bit slow, but that shouldn't matter much if you're
looking for highly reliable portable storage.  That being said, you can
never have enough memory cards.  The addition of a viewable storage device
such as the P-2000, P-4000, or P-4500 is always a plus that will enhance
your options.  Good luck.

Rita
Jørn Dahl-Stamnes - 06 Jun 2006 12:15 GMT
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
> for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thank you very much,
> Peter

I got nearly 9 Gb memory in CF cards. I do not travel a lot, but last time
my CF cards was enough for a 4 day trip to Spain. If I have been away for a
longer time, I would have brought my laptop with me. Gives me 40 Gb storage
AND software to view and edit my pictures during the trip.

I know that sometime a laptop is not the answer due to it's size. A portable
disk with a build-in card-reader would be very usefull.

Signature

Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/

Tony Polson - 06 Jun 2006 19:28 GMT
>A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
>for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>cds or a laptop is not going to be an option. Any experience of failures or
>reptations of one being better than the other?

I use a Jobo 20GB.  It is slow to load it with data from my 1 GB and
2 GB compact flash cards and even slower from a Microdrive.  The
battery life is also short, especially considering how slow it is.

But it was cheap to buy and it avoids carrying large numbers of flash
memory cards.  It is much less easy to lose than a flash card, but if
you do lose it, you will lose a great many images all at once.

DoN. Nichols - 06 Jun 2006 20:38 GMT
According to Peter Wear <pwear@bigpond.net.au>:
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
> for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cds or a laptop is not going to be an option. Any experience of failures or
> reptations of one being better than the other?

    Well ... I would consider *any* moving media such as a disk
drive to be less reliable in the presence of physical shock than a CF
card.  Of course, micro-drives are more sensitive than CF cards too,
since they are just tiny hard drives.

    The other things about the hard disk storage which might make it
less reasonable for a trip are:

1)    How much time you will have for transferring CF cards to the hard
    disk before you need that CF card again.

2)    How likely is the battery in the hard disk setup to die during a
    transfer -- perhaps corrupting the entire set of stored images.
    Hopefully, if it is properly designed, it will open the CF card
    read-only so it *can't* corrupt the CF card -- and ideally it
    will also have a very conservative battery test circuit built in
    so it won't *start* a copy operation which it has no chance to
    complete.  And also, ideally, it will do a good job of making it
    clear that a copy sequence did not complete, if something goes
    wrong.

3)    You will have yet another charger to carry around, and to
    contend for the limited number of outlets in a typical hotel
    room.

    That said -- I would probably go "belt and suspenders" (or
belt-and-braces for the UK crowd) and have such a thing to copy the CF
cards to -- but keep the original data on the CF cards as well, until I
got home and could copy things onto the computer and CD-ROMs or
DVD-ROMs.

    But I would consider the multiple CF cards to be the better
route if you were doing just one of the two options.  I currently have
(for my D70) two 1GB CF cards and a 4GB CF card.  And if I were
heading on an important trip, I would get another 4GB CF card.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Peter Wear - 06 Jun 2006 22:24 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm inclined to get extra cards for the
reasons Don discusses. Actually, I haven't read in any newsgroup of a single
failure in reputable card memory. I guess if you test it first, it's about
as reliable as anything can be.
Peter W.
> According to Peter Wear <pwear@bigpond.net.au>:
>> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 06 Jun 2006 22:35 GMT
> Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm inclined to get extra cards for
> the reasons Don discusses. Actually, I haven't read in any newsgroup
> of a single failure in reputable card memory. I guess if you test it
> first, it's about as reliable as anything can be.

Peter, actually, CF cards do fail and they do so at the most inopportune
time.  I had a 4GB take a dump on me.  Fortunately there wasn't anything
important on it when it did and I was lucky enough to get a quick exchange
for a new one.  The key is redundancy!  Always back up to another medium and
keep your CF cards intact till you get home.  This means that you can even
have a DVD burned at a kiosk if you can find one in your travels.  You can
lose or damage your CF card(s) or your backup medium.  At least you will
still have your data.  I have more than enough cards, but I still keep a
backup on the P-2000 when on the road.  Replacing CF cards and backup media
is cheap; you'll never be able to replace your pictures.

Rita
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 07 Jun 2006 04:04 GMT
>> Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm inclined to get extra cards for
>> the reasons Don discusses. Actually, I haven't read in any newsgroup
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> backup on the P-2000 when on the road.  Replacing CF cards and backup media
> is cheap; you'll never be able to replace your pictures.

I too have had CF cards fail.  I have something like 42 gbytes
in ~16 cards and have had 3 fail, all sandisk: 512 mb, 2 gb extreme,
and 4 gb extreme II.  All cards have been treated well and not
had any physical stress (heat or impact).  My other cards are
lexar and none have failed (I have more lexar cards than sandisk).

I carry my cards and either a laptop and/or epson 2000.
I back up onto hard drive and do not erase the CF cards
until all are used up and needed again.  I have never lost
any data, even when the cards failed (I was able to read
the data but no longer able to write or format in my
cameras, 10D, 1D Mark II on current firmware, of PC).

Roger
http://www.clarkvision.com
DoN. Nichols - 07 Jun 2006 06:07 GMT
According to Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) <username@qwest.net>:

    [ ... ]

> > Peter, actually, CF cards do fail and they do so at the most inopportune
> > time.  I had a 4GB take a dump on me.  Fortunately there wasn't anything
> > important on it when it did and I was lucky enough to get a quick exchange
> > for a new one.  The key is redundancy!

    [ ... ]

> I too have had CF cards fail.  I have something like 42 gbytes
> in ~16 cards and have had 3 fail, all sandisk: 512 mb, 2 gb extreme,
> and 4 gb extreme II.  All cards have been treated well and not
> had any physical stress (heat or impact).  My other cards are
> lexar and none have failed (I have more lexar cards than sandisk).

    Hmm ... I've (so far) never had a failure of a CF card, and all
of mine are Lexar -- 1GB and 4GB.  Also, FWIW, my cameras are Nikon.
This latter may not have any bearing, but I remember reading here about
a but in the way Canons interacted with come CF cards (mostly Lexar,
IIRC).

> I carry my cards and either a laptop and/or epson 2000.
> I back up onto hard drive and do not erase the CF cards
> until all are used up and needed again.  I have never lost
> any data, even when the cards failed (I was able to read
> the data but no longer able to write or format in my
> cameras, 10D, 1D Mark II on current firmware, of PC).

    Hmm ... have you tried re-formatting in your computer instead,
and then seeing whether you can re-format in the camera again?

    Have you checked the manufacturer's web site to see if there is
any FAQ which deals with that?

    At least, it is good that your failure modes did not lose you
images.

    Good Luck,
        DoN.
Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 08 Jun 2006 05:04 GMT
>>I too have had CF cards fail.  I have something like 42 gbytes
>>in ~16 cards and have had 3 fail, all sandisk: 512 mb, 2 gb extreme,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> a but in the way Canons interacted with come CF cards (mostly Lexar,
> IIRC).

Yes, there was an issue with certain lexar cards with a specific
firmware version in canon 1D Mark II cameras.  While I have
a 1DII, none of my lexar cards (1, 2 and 4 gb cards) were those
affected, and I am on the latest firmware.  It is not an
issue for me.

>>I carry my cards and either a laptop and/or epson 2000.
>>I back up onto hard drive and do not erase the CF cards
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>     Hmm ... have you tried re-formatting in your computer instead,
> and then seeing whether you can re-format in the camera again?

Yes, no help.  One card will format in a 10D but will not
work in any camera, and will not format in any camera or
PC.  Others simply do not work.

>     Have you checked the manufacturer's web site to see if there is
> any FAQ which deals with that?

I have not seen any information that deals with that.  I have
not returned the cards yet (I haven't had time).

>     At least, it is good that your failure modes did not lose you
> images.

Roger
http://www.clarkvision.com
jean - 16 Jun 2006 20:23 GMT
I have an older 20Gb Image Tank G2 and the CF cards are much more reliable,
already I had to replace the battery on the Image Tank.  If I had to get any
form of portable hard disk, I would get an Apple iPod (the video version)
and dump my cards on that.

Jean

> Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm inclined to get extra cards for the
> reasons Don discusses. Actually, I haven't read in any newsgroup of a single
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> > Enjoy,
> > DoN.
cjcampbell - 07 Jun 2006 07:39 GMT
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
> for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thank you very much,
> Peter

I used to think that a laptop was not an option, but eventually I came
to the realization that it was the only option. I wanted the ability to
review my camera RAW photos on a large screen while still in the field,
in case I needed a do-over. Neither cards nor photo banks really
address that need.

Personally, I think cards are more reliable than disks, if for no other
reason than that they have fewer moving parts.

Seems like an excuse to get a video iPod, but that won't work, either
-- you need a laptop to transfer the photos. Besides, I don't think an
iPod will read RAW photos. Neither will most photo banks, come to think
of it.

The advantage of a photo bank is a lot of them will plug into a TV so
you can review your pictures.
David J Taylor - 07 Jun 2006 08:22 GMT
[]
> The advantage of a photo bank is a lot of them will plug into a TV so
> you can review your pictures.

The Epson P-2000 also has this feature, although I've not used it.

David
J. Clarke - 07 Jun 2006 11:45 GMT
>> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I
>> have for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> The advantage of a photo bank is a lot of them will plug into a TV so
> you can review your pictures.

You might want to take a look at an Archos PMA-400/PMA-430 (seem to be the
same device, different numbers).  Very versatile device that's running
Linux/Qtopia.  In principle it should be able to run dcraw, in practice I
can't find any discussion of anyone even attempting to do so, and I've
never tried it myself so have no idea how difficult it would be if it can
be done at all.  According to Bill Machrone's tests it has better sound
quality than the ipod as well.

A couple of other high-portability options, but expensive, would be an OQO
<http://www.oqo.com/> or a Sony Vaio UX
<http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseC
atalog-Start?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_UX_Series&Dept=computers
>.

If you froogle "OQO" you'll find a number of sources--it seems to be readily
available.  

The Vaio you can get now in an Americanized Japanese version from
Dynamism.com (the Dynamism price on Japanese-market hardware includes Fedex
to Japan if warranty service is required) or the US version from Sony
direct in mid-July.  

Both the OQO and the UX run Windows XP (_not_ Windows Mobile) so for the
most part anything you can do on a desktop machine you can do on one of
them.  Note that the OQO uses the Transmeta Crusoe processor while the UX
uses an Intel Core Solo.  Unfortunately the genii who designed them didn't
see fit to shoehorn in a TV out, so you have to use a converter to display
on a TV--an Avermedia Quickplay is probably the most portable and supports
NTSC and PAL so it should work most places you're likely to find a TV
except France, where they have their own unique TV system.

Signature

--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Roy Smith - 07 Jun 2006 14:05 GMT
> I used to think that a laptop was not an option, but eventually I came
> to the realization that it was the only option. I wanted the ability to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Personally, I think cards are more reliable than disks, if for no other
> reason than that they have fewer moving parts.

On the other hand, you can get a laptop with a built-in DVD burner and make
your own backups right in the field.  I don't think you can beat that for
reliability.
ttdaomd@hotmail.com - 16 Jun 2006 22:04 GMT
> On the other hand, you can get a laptop with a built-in DVD burner and make
> your own backups right in the field.  I don't think you can beat that for
> reliability.

I guess it really depends how much time and battery power you have in
the field and what your needs are precisely.  I would be just be
careful of DVD burning simply because I don`t think it is 100%
reliable.  Small copying errors can totally ruin a whole DVD or
portions of a DVD and you might not know it until you replay the whole
DVD.  DVD`s are somewhat scratch-sensitive.  Also laptop DVD`s only
copy 4.7 gigs and until they come up with a 9.4 gig unit for the
laptop, the quick and safest solution would be to get some of the
cheaper and slower 2 gig memory cards for about $60 each?.  Get enough
of them and on some cameras like the D200, you can save your images RAW
and FINE jpegs: you get about 77 images on the D200 on a 2 gig card if
you do it this way.  Any case, I am holding off getting more cards
until I find myself stuck in a project when I MUST have more backup
memory.  Otherwise, those dang Sandisk 8 gig Extremes are going to drop
in price sooner or later.

Tien
Ron - 07 Jun 2006 14:08 GMT
When I travel domestically in the US I always have my notebook with me
for business reasons and just back up to it. Last week I spent a few
days in Bermuda and although I did not end up using the 3 gig of CF
cards I brought with me (I triage and delete considerably), I did have
several flash drives with me and used a neat little Delkin Bridge
backup up a couple of cards to them. The Bridge is a little device that
runs on two AA's (I paid about $25, including postage for one on eBay)
which allows quick transfer from one USB device to another, setting up
a new directory on the host each time it is written to. Given that
flash drives have multiple uses (I use them for MP3s, ICE info, address
files, etc.) and are now down to about $25 for a one gig card and
dropping fast, this is pretty easy and cost effective. Of course with a
device like this I could back up to extra CF cards, the prices of which
are plunging dramatically as well.  I see this is a pretty simple way
to provide backup in those rare times when I don't have the laptop or,
as in this case, want to spend a small fortune in a hotel business
center burning onto cd's or dvd's.

Of course, it all depends on what your ultimate needs are, and how much
backing up yo want to do.  I always feel more secure knowing that all
my photos are backed up shortly after they are taken. The flash card
route is good because they can be worn around one's neck, and, if need
be, be transferred to a computer very, very quickly. This approach
would be great in places where theft could be a problem -- I've had a
camera system stolen in international travel so have learned the hard
way. If you already have an MP3 player that takes data or imaging files
you might check out the Delkin.

As for the failure issue, I did have one SanDisk die. Fortunately my
pics had been backed up and it was replaced immediately. Absolutely no
problems with Lexar, PNY and Toshiba in my Olys.

> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
> for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thank you very much,
> Peter
Petri Lopia - 10 Jun 2006 19:29 GMT
> A upcoming lengthy holiday is going to stretch the two memory cards I have
> for my 20D ( they're 1 gig each) and I'm tossing up between buying more
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thank you very much,
> Peter

I have Epson P-2000 and I like it. I like to have one quick CF card and photo
bank. I actually have two 1 Gig CF cards but only one quick one.
Cos then I can always buy one new quicker CF card when they start to sell those.
If I only have many many CF card I have to use a lot of money to upgrade those
all... now I just have to buy one new CF card...
And one reason to have photo bank is that I'm gadger freak =)

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