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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / June 2006

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Another mag describes 30Ds pictures as less than clear

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RichA - 31 May 2006 09:42 GMT
"What Digital Photography" (British) says the shots come out looking
"milky."  Since we have control of contrast in PS and other post-image
programs, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Randall Ainsworth - 31 May 2006 13:33 GMT
> "What Digital Photography" (British) says the shots come out looking
> "milky."  Since we have control of contrast in PS and other post-image
> programs, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

What would make a difference is if you actually owned a camera.
RichA - 31 May 2006 17:38 GMT
> > "What Digital Photography" (British) says the shots come out looking
> > "milky."  Since we have control of contrast in PS and other post-image
> > programs, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
>
> What would make a difference is if you actually owned a camera.

Thanks Pavlov.
Dmac - 31 May 2006 22:50 GMT
>>"What Digital Photography" (British) says the shots come out looking
>>"milky."  Since we have control of contrast in PS and other post-image
>>programs, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
>
> What would make a difference is if you actually owned a camera.

So... Randall Anusworth has found another target, eh?
What happened to Sigma Randall? Realize they do make some decent lenses
perhaps? Get a life man, you are starting to look pathetic.

Douglas
John McWilliams - 01 Jun 2006 02:20 GMT
>>> "What Digital Photography" (British) says the shots come out looking
>>> "milky."  Since we have control of contrast in PS and other post-image
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> What happened to Sigma Randall? Realize they do make some decent lenses
> perhaps? Get a life man, you are starting to look pathetic.

Ya know, Mac, dontcha, that not posting back to those you dislike is an
option, huh?

One you could exercise with a bit of determination?

<s>

Signature

john mcwilliams

Dmac - 02 Jun 2006 07:35 GMT
> Ya know, Mac, dontcha, that not posting back to those you dislike is an
> option, huh?
>
> One you could exercise with a bit of determination?
>
> <s>

I do know that John and yes, I posses the determination to do as you
suggest. Unfortunately this cretin has made a pastime of attacking those
 whose posts annoy him for some considerable time. In this instance, I
felt the need to express my opinion of him.

Randall has been in my troll list and his posts missing from the groups
I frequent. Unfortunately this does not have any effect when someone not
in my black hole responds to one of them.

Trust me John,
I'll be more vigilant in the future.

Douglas
Randall Ainsworth - 01 Jun 2006 03:28 GMT
> So... Randall Anusworth has found another target, eh?
> What happened to Sigma Randall? Realize they do make some decent lenses
> perhaps? Get a life man, you are starting to look pathetic.

RichA is a regular troll whose practical knowledge of photography is
pretty close to zero.

As for Sigma, if that's what you want to waste your money on, they'll
gladly take it.
RichA - 02 Jun 2006 07:20 GMT
> > So... Randall Anusworth has found another target, eh?
> > What happened to Sigma Randall? Realize they do make some decent lenses
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> As for Sigma, if that's what you want to waste your money on, they'll
> gladly take it.

Not my comments, genius.
Here is what the magazine says:

"For the most part the EOS 30D is capable of some extremely fine
images, and generally exposure and colour are very good.  The camera
does suffer from Canon's standard flat image look though, and I feel
most images could do with a slight tweak in contrast to getrid of a
slight milky look that faintly cover the images.  View alone this is
barely noticeable but compared to an image from another camera, or
viewed before and after correction, you can see it quite clearly.  This
is noticeable in JPEG images as well as RAW.  In terms of noise, the
30D performs very well, even at high ISO settings.
ISO 1000 is about the highest I would recommend for comfortable images;
any higher and I would be concerned about how the noise will show in
the final images.
  Finally a word about the lenses.  Several images I shot were less
sharp than I'd hoped because of the quality of some of the cheaper
Canon lenses.  So it's worth investing in a decent lens, at least as a
day-to-day standard, unless you want to see unsharp images
and a higher incidence of fringing.
  Generally though, I can't see many people complaining about the
images they might get from the Canon EOS 30D.
Dmac - 02 Jun 2006 08:40 GMT
>>As for Sigma, if that's what you want to waste your money on, they'll
>>gladly take it.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>    Generally though, I can't see many people complaining about the
> images they might get from the Canon EOS 30D.

I'm one of the first to tell people about Canon "crap" and the God awful
quality control of their "consumer DSLRs" but fair is fair. Along with
this rightly deserved complaining must come defense of Canon's better
points too.

So Rich... This "flat" or "milky" look is actually an appearance
preferred by traditional portrait and wedding photographers, not
something I feel any desire to correct by reducing or compressing the
contrast range which blows out the highlights.

Considering I do a lot of work where the bride is in white and the groom
in dark blue or black, It is quite important to retain detail in the
highlights and still have some in the shadows too. The Gamut of a Canon
sensor is only equaled by the dual sensors in Fuji DSLRs and almost by
the CMOS sensor in the Nikon D2X.

I doubt the text you have shown has been written by anyone with any real
knowledge of what they are doing. Since the 20D was released, I have
owned 4 of them and I now own a 30D. I draw your attention to one of my
photos taken with my first 20D and it's "kit" lens here:
http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/pub?full=1

The next pic in the Gallery is a 100% crop of the original image taken
with sharpening set at it's lowest. I applied 200% @ 0.2 pixel radius
unsharp mask to it after developing the RAW image in Photoshop. No other
action was taken.

I bought a 30D earlier this week and although I don't have it's "Kit"
lens (bought only the body) I can attest to the fact it is pretty much
identical to a 20D except for a few things which don't have any impact
on it's image taking ability.

What I'm saying here is that the article is bullshit. Either the author
got one of the cameras with a back focus error and isn't astute enough
to recognize the problem or he plain and simply doesn't know what he is
doing. I shot at ISO 1600 last night at the Brisbane City hall, after
dark, in a tungsten lit environment with both the 20D and the 30D. The
only problem with those images is the auto white balance and we all know
about that one.

I don't normally publish any wedding photos without password protecting
them but the bride here is a socialite and her site will be public so
I'll give you a peek at one ISO 1600 image of the reception. Just click
the image to get a larger one.
http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/inside_natural Taken with a
Sigma 24-70 F/2.8 EX, DG, Macro lens.

Douglas
Tony Polson - 02 Jun 2006 11:29 GMT
>I don't normally publish any wedding photos without password protecting
>them but the bride here is a socialite and her site will be public so
>I'll give you a peek at one ISO 1600 image of the reception. Just click
>the image to get a larger one.
>http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/inside_natural Taken with a
>Sigma 24-70 F/2.8 EX, DG, Macro lens.

As usual, Dougie posts a shot that tells us absolutely nothing.  It is
just another mediocre snapshot that could have been taken with a 2 MP
camera phone.

Elsewhere in his highly amusing little "portfolio" is this shot which
shows Dougie's composition skills at their very best:

http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/cleve_point

;-)
Dmac - 02 Jun 2006 12:23 GMT
>>I don't normally publish any wedding photos without password protecting
>>them but the bride here is a socialite and her site will be public so
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> ;-)

Yep... 200 year old heritage listed tree and the heritage listed
lighthouse all in one shot. Was the cover shot for the 2005 Redlands
calendar. A sellout edition. I'm really proud of that one. The proceeds
from it paid for my 5D and it's 70 -200 F2.8, IS lens and the change
went a long way towards buying my second Designjet canvas printer.

Not quite up to your remarkable train shot, is it Tony?... You know the
one? laughing stock of Usenet? The one someone always manages to dig up
whenever you make out you have some sort of photographic ability?

I'll dig up the link and post it if you like. It won't matter if it a
dead link. I liked it so much I followed your example with my pictures
and downloaded it just so I could present it when you tried this sort of
stunt again. Really exemplifies your photographic ability and
demonstrates your clear talent all in one picture. Brilliant stuff mate,
got any more we can get a laugh from?

While I'm here... Tell us about the cover shots you did for that French
Magazine, the Editors of which have no knowledge of you. Your
explanation of that lot of bullshit will justify my cost of finding out
you really are the biggest bullshit artist these groups have spawned.
Right up there with Chrlz@go.com or Mark_thomas as he last called himself.

You remember him, don't you? He's the one who teamed up with you to make
out I'd posted a blurry image of a 98 year old fellow in historic dress
at the re-enactment of Cook's landing in Moreton Bay. Remember? Sort of
made both of you look a bit stupid when I posted the original (very
sharp) pic, didn't it?

You really are a funny man, Tony. Everyone's been laughing at you for
years. Why don't you just keep to subjects you actually have some
knowledge about and leave your critic of composition to people who know
what they are talking about.

You see... You've made an idiot out of yourself again here. When the
text and header is added to the picture you pointed out, the whole cover
comes together. This one:
http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/cover2 looks even odder but
it too became complete when the text was over layed. I'll get permission
to publish the finished covers from the new copyright owner tomorrow.
I'm sure a few readers here will find the subject interesting, even if
you only seek to get entertainment from them in the poorest attempt at
humor you seem so gifted at.

Douglas
Tony Polson - 02 Jun 2006 13:22 GMT
>Yep... 200 year old heritage listed tree and the heritage listed
>lighthouse all in one shot.

Only *part* of the lighthouse, Dougie.  You only needed to move
2 metres to the left to get the lighthouse in shot.  That was
obviously too much effort for you.

Still, people could use their imagination to visualise how good the
shot might have been with a more competent photographer holding the
camera.  There must be millions of people in Australia who could have
made that shot work, just by standing a little further to the left.

Maybe you were tired after standing all day on your market stall.

http://www.weprint2canvas.com/gallery/Public/market_stand

;-)
Randall Ainsworth - 02 Jun 2006 13:38 GMT
You guys wanna get a room or something?
RichA - 02 Jun 2006 23:41 GMT
> You guys wanna get a room or something?

How about in the Bates Motel, Norman?
G.T. - 02 Jun 2006 19:09 GMT
> You really are a funny man, Tony. Everyone's been laughing at you for
> years. Why don't you just keep to subjects you actually have some
> knowledge about and leave your critic of composition to people who know
> what they are talking about.

There are a lot of funny men on Usenet but you are by far the funniest.

Greg

Signature

"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

RichA - 02 Jun 2006 11:49 GMT
> >>As for Sigma, if that's what you want to waste your money on, they'll
> >>gladly take it.
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> Douglas

This is the second article I've read in a week that has described the
30D as having
this quality about its pictures.  You've already agreed by stating the
flat look is what
some camera users want and that they get it from Canon.  The wedding
picture looks "fine" but then I'm looking at a 533x800 shot at 72dpi on
a webpage.  I have no idea how
another brand of camera would have rendered it or how it will look
printed.
Dmac - 02 Jun 2006 13:48 GMT
>>I don't normally publish any wedding photos without password protecting
>>them but the bride here is a socialite and her site will be public so
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> another brand of camera would have rendered it or how it will look
> printed.

Rich, this is why people get into you for some of your posts. You simply
can't judge a photograph when it's a picture on a web page. You've read
2 articles. Great. You can judge even less, a picture by reading about
it. I've taken over 30,000 pictures with 20Ds. I own a wide format
printing business and until last year, owned a camera store as well as
maintain a Pro Studio.

When I read  an article about a camera I have intimate knowledge of, I
expect it be consistent, follow a course of testing and contain
information about everything that comes with the camera. So far, no
mention of how to adjust your camera for the image type you want. You
get the results you program into the camera. Custom functions are just
that... Customizing the way your pictures turn out.

One of my cameras runs tethered and has the contrast and sharpness
cranked up so it can capture in JPEG and print a high contrast picture
directly as it is taken. Another is set with the lowest contrast and
sharpness. I make all the adjustments during development of the RAW
files with this one. One works at events and the other I use for
Weddings... Why do you suppose I use totally different setting on these?

You really have to look at the whole package Canon provide with the
Camera to realize what is going on. Canon give out an application called
"Digital Photo Professional" with their DSLRs. The latest version
(upgradeable off the net) of this application has a facility to use
during development of RAW images which allows you to select the type of
rendering the picture will have. Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral,
faithful or B&W.

The software develops RAW files to these picture types and it alters the
curves of each colour channel and the contrast of the picture to arrive
at the "type" of picture you choose. Expert individuals can do this in
Photoshop with JPEG images but for those who like to shoot, develop and
print, it is essential to use RAW capture and DPP or produce a
customized set of functions in the camera for your desired results.

The way the article you reproduced reads, the guy has no idea of how to
get the results "HE" wants to have. Instead he is criticizing the camera
for not having ISP into his brain. That is probably in next year's model!
Tony Polson - 02 Jun 2006 20:24 GMT
>Rich, this is why people get into you for some of your posts. You simply
>can't judge a photograph when it's a picture on a web page.

Yet you, of all people, expect people to draw firm conclusions from
your pictures posted on web pages.  

So you are a hypocrite as well as an idiot.

;-)
Dmac - 02 Jun 2006 22:01 GMT
>>Rich, this is why people get into you for some of your posts. You simply
>>can't judge a photograph when it's a picture on a web page.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> ;-)

Where's your web site Tony?
Show us your pics, mate!
Tony Polson - 03 Jun 2006 01:43 GMT
>>>Rich, this is why people get into you for some of your posts. You simply
>>>can't judge a photograph when it's a picture on a web page.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Where's your web site Tony?
>Show us your pics, mate!

Didn't you know, Doug?  That "you simply can't judge a photograph when
it's a picture on a web page"?

They are your own words, after all!

;-)
Dmac - 03 Jun 2006 03:32 GMT
>>>>Rich, this is why people get into you for some of your posts. You simply
>>>>can't judge a photograph when it's a picture on a web page.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> ;-)

So that's it?
Tony Polson is so scared of being criticized by his peers, he hides his
pictures. Well...

After your train shot and the pasting you got far and wide for total
crap, I'm not surprised. Better you stick to the hardware Tony. At least
your posts regarding camera gear seem a lot more accurate than the
bullshit you post criticizing people who are photographers.

Why do you need to lie about your photographic exploits? Surely your
knowledge of all things to do with cameras should be enough to carry you
through these groups? No need to lie. No need to pick sh.t at other
people's photographs, just keep your mount shut when you don't know what
you are talking about... Give it a try mate, you might be surprised.
Even AB leaves you alone when you stick to what you know.
 
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