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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / April 2006

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Suggestions for Nikon D200 kit??

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Derry Argue - 31 Mar 2006 07:59 GMT
OK, people, I have some money to spend.

What would you suggest to order along with a D200 body? I am interested in
mostly country sports, action shots, etc. and am usually inclined to use
telephotos rather than wide angles. I have read various debates about the
quality of zoom lenses -- and now I'm confused!

I have been convinced that this is the camera to get but not on what
accessories would be a good investment. I am not a pro but do occasionally
sell my pictures to illustrate my own articles for various magazines. This
will be my first DSLR.

Thanks!

Derry
Jeroen Wenting - 31 Mar 2006 08:36 GMT
If you already have Nikon lenses, you can just keep using those.
If not, well...
The 70-200 f/2.8 AF-S G VR Nikkor is very very good. Add a 1.4x or 1.7x
Nikon teleconverter and you have a quite decent range.

On the low end, get yourself a 35mm f/2 or 18-55 Nikkor.

There are very good zooms and very bad ones, with most sitting somewhere in
between. If you steer clear from the bottom segment of the market you should
be fine for now.

> OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Derry
cjcampbell - 01 Apr 2006 01:37 GMT
> If you already have Nikon lenses, you can just keep using those.
> If not, well...
> The 70-200 f/2.8 AF-S G VR Nikkor is very very good. Add a 1.4x or 1.7x
> Nikon teleconverter and you have a quite decent range.
>
> On the low end, get yourself a 35mm f/2 or 18-55 Nikkor.

I agree with the 70-200 f/2.8 VR Nikkor, but I think for the low end
the 12-24mm is more useful. There is not much point in a mid-range
zoom, but the 18-70mm 'kit' lens works well.

Otherwise, the 18-200mm AF-S VR DX as a travel and everyday lens.
Performance such a wide range zoom is amazing.
Jeroen Wenting - 03 Apr 2006 14:03 GMT
>> If you already have Nikon lenses, you can just keep using those.
>> If not, well...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Otherwise, the 18-200mm AF-S VR DX as a travel and everyday lens.
> Performance such a wide range zoom is amazing.

He was explicitly asking about tele zooms, thus my advise.
The 12-24 indeed does well in tests.

For midrange zooms, a 28-70 f/2.8 of any of the main brands (Tokina, Sigma,
or Nikon) will serve very well.
Though I'm moving more towards primes for anything short of long teles
(where the price is beyond my financial event horizon) myself, those are all
3 excellent lenses.
Espen Stranger Seland - 31 Mar 2006 08:44 GMT
>OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
>What would you suggest to order along with a D200 body? I am interested in
>mostly country sports, action shots, etc. and am usually inclined to use
>telephotos rather than wide angles. I have read various debates about the
>quality of zoom lenses -- and now I'm confused!

Which ones?

>I have been convinced that this is the camera to get but not on what
>accessories would be a good investment. I am not a pro but do occasionally
>sell my pictures to illustrate my own articles for various magazines. This
>will be my first DSLR.

Since you don't mention how much 'some money' is, you can't go wrong
with the AF-S 70-200 VR. Top mechanic, top optics. For some kinds of
sports, it kan be too short. For sports, you need the light (f/2.8). A
used AF-S 80-200 could be a cheaper option.

You probably want something more normal (wider than 70mm) as well.

-espen
Signature

http://www.seland.org/

Ed Ruf  (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 31 Mar 2006 11:28 GMT
>OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
>What would you suggest to order along with a D200 body? I am interested in
>mostly country sports, action shots, etc. and am usually inclined to use
>telephotos rather than wide angles. I have read various debates about the
>quality of zoom lenses -- and now I'm confused!

Others have mentioned the 70-200 f/2.8 AF-S G VR Nikkor. I love mine. Use
it on a D70 and D200 with/out a TC-II.  Not cheap but worth every penny as
a lifetime investment, imo. If money and size no object the new 200-400mm
f/4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor is to drool for.
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2146
But you'll need a little red wagon, first to hold the $$ to buy it and then
to haul it around. :-)

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html is a decent review site.

>I have been convinced that this is the camera to get but not on what
>accessories would be a good investment. I am not a pro but do occasionally
>sell my pictures to illustrate my own articles for various magazines. This
>will be my first DSLR.

Several fast 4 GB CF cards are a must. See
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-8197
speed comparisons.
--
Ed Ruf    Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Tony Polson - 31 Mar 2006 13:02 GMT
>OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>sell my pictures to illustrate my own articles for various magazines. This
>will be my first DSLR.

You should buy the 18-70mm 'kit' lens as it is optically very good and
remarkably inexpensive, especially when purchased with the camera
body.  That will give you a good range of focal lengths from moderate
wide angle (equivalent of 28mm on 35mm film) to moderate telephoto
(equivalent of 105mm on 35mm film).

What tele zoom you should buy depends on what you want to use it for
and how much you wish to pay.  Unfortunately your description of
"mostly country sports, action shots, etc." is almost meaningless, and
you didn't even hint as to what you budget might be.  So it is
difficult to make a recommendation.

However, a good budget option is the 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED AF Nikkor.
Avoid the similar-sounding but optically inferior 70-300mm f/4-5.6G
which lacks the ED glass.  The ED version produces excellent results
in the 70-200mm range but performance deteriorates to merely good as
you zoom towards 400mm.

If your budget will stretch to the 70-200mm f/2.8G AF-S VR Nikkor, you
will own one of the finest telephoto zooms ever made.  There is also
an 80-200mm VR lens but it lacks the AF-S "Silent Wave" focusing which
makes it very slow.  It is also not particularly sharp.

Only you can judge whether fixed focal length telephotos will suit you
better than a zoom.  If the 70-200mm f/2.8G AF-S VR Nikkor suits your
needs and your budget, it is the tele zoom lens I would recommend.
Bronek Kozicki - 31 Mar 2006 13:18 GMT
> What would you suggest to order along with a D200 body? I am
> interested in mostly country sports, action shots, etc. and am
> usually inclined to use telephotos rather than wide angles. I have

There are already some good sugestions in this thread as to tele lens,
however you might probably also want "normal" perspective from time to
time. Cheap (and rather good) is kit lens for D70(s), that is 18-70 mm
f/3.5-4.5G , however its resolution does not quite match sensor of D200.
Better and brighter (and expensive, too) is 17-55mm f/2.8G .

B.
bmoag - 31 Mar 2006 17:38 GMT
Whatever zoom/telephoto you decide make sure you get the 18-70 kit lens (not
the 18-55). This is is the best/most cost effective way to get a pretty good
quality lens for wide-angle (28mm equivalent) shots. To go wider than this,
even with third party makers (SigmaTamronTokina) is $500 and up; the Nikon
is $900. For ordinary uses this is really an indispensable lens for Nikon
dSLRs.
Whatever you do avoid like the plague the Nikon 55-200 unless you want to
learn what is meant by the word "horrible."
Doug Payne - 31 Mar 2006 18:29 GMT
> Whatever you do avoid like the plague the Nikon 55-200 unless you want to
> learn what is meant by the word "horrible."

But if you're still keen on a single-lens solution, the new 18-200 seems
to be not so bad, despite the bad rep that such super-zooms generally get:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_zoom_02.html#AFS18-200VR
http://www.bythom.com/18200lens.htm
David Dyer-Bennet - 31 Mar 2006 21:59 GMT
> > Whatever you do avoid like the plague the Nikon 55-200 unless you
> > want to learn what is meant by the word "horrible."
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_zoom_02.html#AFS18-200VR
> http://www.bythom.com/18200lens.htm

Yes, I'm surprised (pleased) at the good reviews it gets.  

Of course, most "super-zooms" don't cost $800, either, so that may
explain part of it.  (But $800 *with* VR is really quite cheap).

But it's still *slow*, darn it all.  VR gets you lower shutter speeds
handheld with respect to camera shake -- but too often, my shutter
speeds are limited by *subject* motion instead, and only more light,
higher ISO, or a faster lens helps with that.  (Oh, or good timing --
for at least *some* moving events, hitting an action peak lets you get
sharp shots at slower shutter speeds.)
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David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
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Doug Payne - 31 Mar 2006 23:10 GMT
> Of course, most "super-zooms" don't cost $800, either, so that may
> explain part of it.  (But $800 *with* VR is really quite cheap).
>
> But it's still *slow*, darn it all.

Well, you can't have everything; inexpensive, fast, VR, well-built, etc.
Derry Argue - 31 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
Thanks, everyone, for all the good advice.

I now have a lot to consider. I have ticks against the 17 - 55mm f2.8G,
possibly the 18 - 70mm kit lens, and the 70 - 200 f2.8 AF-S G VR Nikkor.
I'm now off to look at suppliers and prices. BTW, I'm in the UK.

My interest is in photographing working dogs, falconry, hunting, etc. I do
need a fast lens. As I've said, the price is secondary after quality. This
is going to have to last me but I do occasionally have the opportunity to
recover some of my costs through sales.

Oh yes, and those fast 4GB CF cards, of course.

Thanks again.

Derry
David Dyer-Bennet - 01 Apr 2006 00:36 GMT
> Thanks, everyone, for all the good advice.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> is going to have to last me but I do occasionally have the opportunity to
> recover some of my costs through sales.

I've never tried to photograph those activities, but I'd think you
*would* find the 17-55 or 18-70 pretty useful, because you can get in
amongst more of the action than you can in most sports setups (there
are safety and annoying-people issues to avoid of course, and there
isn't a clearly-delimited "field" for you to stay off of so you have
to figure out what you can get away with).

> Oh yes, and those fast 4GB CF cards, of course.

I added a fast 2GB CF card, but just one (to the previous 1GB 80x WA
CF card I'd already been using with my Fuji S2).  But I'm used to
thinking of 36 exposure rolls as pretty long (certainly compared to
120 rolls or 4x5 sheet film), so changing cards every few hundred
pictures isn't a big deal.  (15MB per RAW image, roughly, on a D200;
but I don't mostly shoot RAW).  So find where the lowest cost per MB
is and buy cards that size; that size isn't 4GB at the moment,
probably 2GB.

Oh, my own tests do show that the D200 writes to a Lexar 133x card
(7.6 MB/sec) significantly faster than to a Lexar 80x card (4.8
MB/sec).  You get a burst of something like 18 shots before the card
speed becomes the directly limiting factor with a D200, though, so
that helps a lot.
Signature

David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Derry Argue - 01 Apr 2006 07:44 GMT
> Oh, my own tests do show that the D200 writes to a Lexar 133x card
> (7.6 MB/sec) significantly faster than to a Lexar 80x card (4.8
> MB/sec).  You get a burst of something like 18 shots before the card
> speed becomes the directly limiting factor with a D200, though, so
> that helps a lot.

Good point. A few hundred photos?? WOW!

My first medium is video and I was talking to another film maker the other
day who pointed out that we now get 40 minutes of digital on a smaller
cassette compared with 20 minutes on those huge old Umatic tapes years ago.
I had to point out that it was/is only 2.5 minutes on 16mm so, having
learnt on that medium (and at 100GBP per minute before editing), I tend to
be economical!! I doubt whether I'd take "a few hundred" photos in a year,
but then I do try to be selective!<vbg> Bursts is definitely a big selling
point for me as getting the action of, say, a hawk taking quarry, is
something I want to do. Also, getting "that shot" of, say, a working
sheepdog is as equally elusive. I think I'm going to enjoy this!<g>

Derry
David Dyer-Bennet - 02 Apr 2006 06:39 GMT
> > Oh, my own tests do show that the D200 writes to a Lexar 133x card
> > (7.6 MB/sec) significantly faster than to a Lexar 80x card (4.8
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Good point. A few hundred photos?? WOW!

Well, in JPEG mode.  2GB / 2.5MB is about 800; 2GB / 15MB is "only"
133.

> My first medium is video and I was talking to another film maker the
> other day who pointed out that we now get 40 minutes of digital on a
> smaller cassette compared with 20 minutes on those huge old Umatic
> tapes years ago.

I used those, yep.  

> I had to point out that it was/is only 2.5 minutes on 16mm so, having
> learnt on that medium (and at 100GBP per minute before editing), I tend to
> be economical!!

Yep, used that, too.  Actually, before the Umatic for me, too.

> I doubt whether I'd take "a few hundred" photos in a year,
> but then I do try to be selective!<vbg> Bursts is definitely a big selling
> point for me as getting the action of, say, a hawk taking quarry, is
> something I want to do. Also, getting "that shot" of, say, a working
> sheepdog is as equally elusive. I think I'm going to enjoy this!<g>

I hope you do.  If you put any photos on the web, post a pointer so we
can see how it's going!
Signature

David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Derry Argue - 02 Apr 2006 09:42 GMT
>  If you put any photos on the web, post a pointer so we
> can see how it's going!

Will do!

Derry
Jeroen Wenting - 03 Apr 2006 14:09 GMT
>> > Oh, my own tests do show that the D200 writes to a Lexar 133x card
>> > (7.6 MB/sec) significantly faster than to a Lexar 80x card (4.8
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Well, in JPEG mode.  2GB / 2.5MB is about 800; 2GB / 15MB is "only"
> 133.

Compressed RAW on the D200 works very well, is very fast, and yields an
(average) filesize of about 7.5-8MB.
Think 150-200 files on a 2GB card to be save.
Got 2 of them, and a 409GB portable harddisk with built-in card reader.
Might buy more cards when travelling to places where I can't charge the
portable HD, but for most of my purposes 800 shots a day (if the reader can
read each card only once before the battery runs down, according to specs it
should last longer) should usually be enough.
Doug Payne - 03 Apr 2006 17:46 GMT
> Compressed RAW on the D200 works very well, is very fast, and yields an
> (average) filesize of about 7.5-8MB.
> Think 150-200 files on a 2GB card to be save.
> Got 2 of them, and a 409GB portable harddisk with built-in card reader.

409 GB? What brand and model?
Tony Polson - 01 Apr 2006 01:42 GMT
>Thanks, everyone, for all the good advice.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Thanks again.

You're welcome.  I strongly suggest that the 18-70mm kit lens and the
70-200mm f2.8G AF-S VR Nikkor would be an optimum combination.  

The low price of the kit lens is remarkable when you realise just how
capable it is optically.  It is *fantastic* value for money,
especially when you compare it with the 18-55mm piece of junk that
Canon offers in competition (and I am a Canon user!).

Later, if you find that the kit lens is not fast enough, you can think
about replacing it with the 17-55mm f/2.8.  But you may never need to.
Another suggestion: the 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor is a good, inexpensive
lens for low light work.  It is very sharp indeed.
Guns/Zen4 - 01 Apr 2006 14:45 GMT
I'm reminded of the old business saw:

- You can have it good
- You can have it fast
- You can have it cheap

Pick any two.

Glenn
Photo gallery at http://faczen.smugmug.com
Reply via the web portal at www.faczen.com
or email usenet at faczen dot ca

> Well, you can't have everything; inexpensive, fast, VR, well-built, etc.
Espen Stranger Seland - 02 Apr 2006 00:04 GMT
>> Whatever you do avoid like the plague the Nikon 55-200 unless you want to
>> learn what is meant by the word "horrible."
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_zoom_02.html#AFS18-200VR
>http://www.bythom.com/18200lens.htm

But I think it's no option for action (sports) photography. It's too
slow.

-espen
Signature

http://www.seland.org/

David Dyer-Bennet - 31 Mar 2006 21:56 GMT
> OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> occasionally sell my pictures to illustrate my own articles for
> various magazines. This will be my first DSLR.

Especially for a 1.5x crop factor DSLR like this, an f/2.8 70-210
zoom is going to be wonderful for the stuff you do.  If you can stand
the price (about the same as the camera body), Nikon's VR version is
supposed to be great, but *I* haven't been able to stand the price yet
so that's hearsay, not personal experience talking.  For action shots
and sports you're going to need first-rate focusing (so the D200 is a
good body to have bought, I think), and you want to pair it with a
long lens that doesn't bog it down; which is to say one of the AF-S or
AF-I versions, not the straight AF or AF-D (these bigger lenses
benefit from additional motor assist in the lens; Canon EF has the
motor in *all* lenses, whereas Nikon can drive the lens from the body,
but can also have a motor in the lens if they need it for the
performance).

And a first-rate 70-210 type lens can usually stand a 1.4x or even 2x
teleconverter pretty decently, too, if the 200mm isn't enough
sometimes even with the 1.5x crop.

Or the 18-200 VR has a good rep at half the price -- but you'll see
it's a couple of stops slower, which means you'll be using a higher
ISO or maybe running out of light completely in some conditions.  VR
helps with camera shake induced by hand-holding, but remember that for
action shots you still need a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the
action.  I personally don't like slow lenses very much.  

I'm personally faunching after the 17-55 f/2.8 for a "walkaround" lens
for my D200, but it's not quite really out yet, and I haven't seen a
lot of reports on it yet.  And it's also pretty expensive -- good fast
lenses are expensive generally, for some strange reason.  Also heavy
and bulky.  But I find I'm using wideangle more and more (I didn't get
anything wider than 28mm until I had been photographing for almost 20
years, but in the 20 after that I'm out to 17mm, and using it fairly
often).  So I am not you :-).  
Signature

David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Pete D - 02 Apr 2006 20:34 GMT
70-200mm F2.8 VR,  http://www.macattack.com.au/

> OK, people, I have some money to spend.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Derry
Derry Argue - 03 Apr 2006 09:14 GMT
"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in news:44302771$0$2163$5a62ac22@per-qv1-
newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:

> 70-200mm F2.8 VR,  http://www.macattack.com.au/

Excellent! Many thanks!

I am still bracing myself to spending the money and placing an order (I'm a
converted Highland Scot) -- but that might have done it!<g>

Derry
 
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