Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / March 2006
Which lens to choose ?
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alertjean@rediffmail.com - 13 Mar 2006 12:33 GMT Hi, I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji Finepix S5500 and soon realized that its not enough for me...So I started searching for a better camera and ended up with a choice of Canon Digital Rebel XT (EOS 350D).Now it is time to choose a lens..
I have two options Either go with one single lens Tamron AF 18-200mm 3.5-6.3 XR Di II Asperical [IF] Macro Zoom Lens or go with two lens for a reduced price Tamron AF 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL Tamron AF 75-300 LD F4-5.6 FS=62 Which option shall I choose ? I am ready to spend for one single lens (18-200) if it is going to perform more...But if two lens is better in performance point of view then I dont care going for the two lens kit...
Please give me your valuable suggestions
Jean
pc - 13 Mar 2006 13:54 GMT I've a Tamron 75-300 LD , it's a nice lens. But on many reviews they say Sigma's is better. I also have Tokina 28-70 for my Canon 300D as well but end up 28mm is not wide enough after 1.6X factor. So, I need to buy a Tokina 12-24mm for landscape shot. If you not going to spend any more for lens in the future. I suggested you buy 18-200mm lens otherwise you should get two lens instead for better optic result. But I'm sure you will found 28mm X 1.6 ( =45mm ) is not wide enough for everyday use. Hope it's help.
JL
> Hi, > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Jean alertjean@rediffmail.com - 13 Mar 2006 15:34 GMT What do you say about the macro performance of 75-300 lens ? Is that good enough ?
Peter A. Stavrakoglou - 14 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT > What do you say about the macro performance of 75-300 lens ? > Is that good enough ? I have the Sigma 70-300mm APO macro. It's not a true macro and it's no substitute for a true macro.
Thomas T. Veldhouse - 14 Mar 2006 14:42 GMT > What do you say about the macro performance of 75-300 lens ? > Is that good enough ? Buy a macro prime lense and don't bother with the cheap telephoto zooms with macro focusing. The quality just isn't there.
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John A. Stovall - 13 Mar 2006 14:04 GMT >Hi, >I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >performance point of view then I dont care going for the two lens >kit... Stick with Canon lenses.
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jean - 13 Mar 2006 15:56 GMT > >Hi, > >I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Stick with Canon lenses. Good advice, get good lenses, the body can be replaced with a better one in the future but good lenses will stay with you as long as they (Canon) stay with the current mount. The one I use 90% of the time for "normal" picture taking and travelling is a Canon 17-40 f4 L.
Jean
Chwyn Cwymp - 13 Mar 2006 19:50 GMT >>Hi, >>I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>Either go with one single lens >>Tamron AF 18-200mm 3.5-6.3 XR Di II Asperical [IF] Macro Zoom Lens snip>>
> Stick with Canon lenses. Sadly a lot of the cheaper Canon lenses are not that good :o( I used the Tamron 18-200 for a walkabout lens. Performance is surprisingly good. At the low end it is on a par with the Canon kit lens, with identical resolution and aberrations. At the long end it is better than the Canon 75-300 @ 200mm, with far less colour fringing and a better resolution. I passed it on to my daughter when I had a windfall and bought some L glass - and she's over the moon with it. Handy not to be changing lenses when you should be taking pics, and less risk of dust on the sensor. According to AP it is better optically than the sigma but the sigma is slightly more robust.
C J Southern - 14 Mar 2006 08:06 GMT > Stick with Canon lenses. Preferably "L Series" - I've never regretted mine for a moment.
John A. Stovall - 15 Mar 2006 00:47 GMT >> Stick with Canon lenses. > >Preferably "L Series" - I've never regretted mine for a moment. Does Canon make any other kind?
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Jon B - 15 Mar 2006 16:02 GMT > >Hi, > >I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Stick with Canon lenses. That isn't always such a blanket good choice. The sub £300 Canon 70/75/90-300mm lenses are all pretty much regarded as being too damn soft [1]. The Tamron is comparable, and to many [2] actually better than most of the Canon offerings in that price bracket for £100. Any money you pay over that £100 is paying for the badge on the front not quality, a lot of the USMs aren't full time manual so no real bonus there.
I've gone for the Tamron 70-300, but looking long term at some big end big bucks Canon L 70-200 f4 or f2.8 fixed, budget when available depending.
None of the lenses you are looking at really shout quality lens, buy me buy me. They are all get you going on the cheap kit while you save for something better. I'd probably grab the 18-200 as an everyday shooter, and then recommend long term look for either primes or shorter range zooms with wider apertures and better glass in the areas you use/need them.
The Tamron 28-75 f2.8 is well liked and half the price of the Canon 24-70 f2.8 L. I've got the Sigma 28-70 f2.8 and it has spent more time on my camera than I would have imagined, and also reminded me why people rave about brighter lenses so much. The only problem is having got it I now want to upgrade the Tamron much sooner than I can afford to.....
[1] And the Canon 18-55 EF-S lens is pretty much regarded as 'sh.t' is it not. [2] OK according to the reviews on Fred Miranda
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AaronW - 16 Mar 2006 23:39 GMT > The sub £300 Canon > 70/75/90-300mm lenses are all pretty much regarded as being too damn > soft Canon 70-300/4-5.6 IS is pretty good.
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Jon B - 17 Mar 2006 13:12 GMT > > The sub £300 Canon > > 70/75/90-300mm lenses are all pretty much regarded as being too damn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr Which is why I carefully selected the price ;) the IS is £400 in the UK.
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Jørn Dahl-Stamnes - 13 Mar 2006 17:51 GMT > Hi, > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Tamron AF 18-200mm 3.5-6.3 XR Di II Asperical [IF] Macro Zoom Lens > or go with two lens for a reduced price AFAIK the auto-focus on your 350D will not work for lenses lower than F 5.6. And 11x zoom?? Can't be any good, can it?
> Tamron AF 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL > Tamron AF 75-300 LD F4-5.6 FS=62 Better, but Canons L lenses are the best... But require a lot of $$$ :-/
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C J Southern - 14 Mar 2006 08:22 GMT > Better, but Canons L lenses are the best... But require a lot of $$$ :-/ But having said that, once you have it, you have it for a very long time - being compatible with all existing (and probably future) Canon SLRs.
Whereas if you get some cheap/nasty Tamron/Tokina/Stigma cr*p then at some point you're just as likely to end up selling it - taking a loss - then buying quality stuff that you could have bought in the first place.
To me, buying a quality camera then fitting cheap 3rd party lenses makes about as much sense as buying a Ferrari, then fitting it with lawn mower wheels.
What's that old saying - something along the lines of "The joy of saving money on a cheap lens will quickly be replaced with dispair, reinforced by the constant stream of poor-quality images"
Rich - 14 Mar 2006 23:32 GMT >> Hi, >> I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Better, but Canons L lenses are the best... But require a lot of $$$ :-/ There is no doubt Canon L zooms are very good, Canon has put as much effort into them it would seem as their long, fast teles. But their primes are not the best. There have also been some tests that have shown non-L zooms have been nearly as good as the Ls, or so close that the difference would come down the the weather proofing of the L-series and not image quality. There is no need to feel tied to the Ls. But many here seem to think that some of the aftermarket stuff (Tamron, Sigma) is junk both optically and mechanically. -Rich
Ben Brugman - 13 Mar 2006 20:27 GMT > Hi, > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Either go with one single lens > Tamron AF 18-200mm 3.5-6.3 XR Di II Asperical [IF] Macro Zoom Lens For a new comer I would advise the AF 18-200.
Reasons : 1. single lens you do not have to cary more than one lens. 2. You do not have to change lenses which reduces the dust problem. 3. 18 mm (1.6 times results in 29 mm) which is a nice Field of View to have. 28 mm (1.6 times results in 45 mm) this is not enough wide angle. 4. One lens has only one size of filterthread so no double filters (pola for example) are needed.
Two lenses will probably have more quality, but how much quality do you need. If you can't decide that before hand you might as well start of with the single lens and if that does not give you enough quality go from there. (Going from two lenses and deciding that you need more quality does not make making decisions easier).
Because I allready had some lenses from my previous camera's I now have ended up with three lenses. With quite some overlap and sometimes I wish I just had one single 18-200.
Ben
> or go with two lens for a reduced price > Tamron AF 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jean alertjean@rediffmail.com - 14 Mar 2006 06:18 GMT > > Hi, > > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Ben Hey Ben, the offer I am looking at is this: (Double lens) http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=CNDRXTB (See the double lens professional kit at the end ) So along with a rebel xt camera it will cost me $1079 .
and this: (Single lens) http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=25485
Also in the double lens offer I will get 2 Gb of memory ,one additional battery...etc I am in deep confusion ...I dont know which kit to choose Some one please help me...
Paul Furman - 14 Mar 2006 08:01 GMT >>>Hi, >>>I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > (See the double lens professional kit at the end ) > So along with a rebel xt camera it will cost me $1079 . That's not so great, you lack wide angle coverage even with 2 lenses. Most of the add-on stuff is useless, you don't need a UV filter or lens cleaning kit, you need a sensor cleaning kit. An extra battery is nice but the peel-off screen protectors are not useful, the risk is cracking the screen.
Special Double-Lens Professional Accessory Kit for Digital Rebel XT
1. Sandisk 2 GB Compact Flash Memory Card ( A Necessity) [QNTY 1] 2. Sakar 21-IN-1 USB 2.0 Card Reader [QNTY 1] 3. Tamron 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL F/CANON EOS [QNTY 1] 4. Tamron 75-300 LD F4-5.6 FS=62 / CANON EOS [QNTY 1] 5. Sakar 800mAh Replacement Battery for Canon NB-2L [QNTY 1] 6. Digital Concepts 58mm Multicoated UV Protective Filter (you must have this basic clear filter!) [QNTY 1] 7. Digital Concepts 62mm Multicoated UV Protective Filter (you must have this basic clear filter!) [QNTY 1] 8. Tamron Compact Deluxe Gadget Bag [QNTY 1] 9. Sakar Digital Camera Screen Protectors (12-pack) [QNTY 1] 10. Sakar 3pc. Lens Cleaning Kit [QNTY 1]
> and this: > (Single lens) > http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=25485 Go to B&H & price the camera with that Tamron 18-200 3.5-6.3 lens with an extra battery maybe, you probably get the battery charger with the body anyways, 2GB CF name brand card, $15 card reader (maybe free) and a sensor cleaning kit, you'll need it eventually even with 1 lens. And photoshop elements at least. Oh and a big rocket blower.
> Also in the double lens offer I will get 2 Gb of memory ,one > additional battery...etc > I am in deep confusion ...I dont know which kit to choose > Some one please help me... ben brugman - 15 Mar 2006 13:31 GMT > Hey Ben, > the offer I am looking at is this: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (Single lens) > http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=25485 Although the double offer has some nice things in it, I still would go for the single offer, mainly because here the 18 mm (28 mm equivalent) focal length is included.
If you would have both sets, you probably would end up with using the 18-200 a lot of the time. (And leaving the other lenses behind). So even if you would have the choice for each day, you'll probably still would choose the 18-200 more than the other two lenses.
I can not remark on quality, because in general quality cost money, larger zoomranges cost money. Larger ranges generaly are more difficult to control in 'faults', like CA (Chromatic Abrations), distortions (specific at the wide angle end). BUT, for most people the 18-200 will give convenience and enough quality to work with. For myself for example, allthough I am critical on my pictures and judge every picture very closely also on sharpnes etc. I rarely give other people access to my pictures in large formats, most access is by a monitor (then quality is rarely an issue) or in smaller print size's. Only the best pictures (in composition and quality) end up in larger print sizes. So for me zoomlenses do work perfectly.
ben
> Also in the double lens offer I will get 2 Gb of memory ,one > additional battery...etc > I am in deep confusion ...I dont know which kit to choose > Some one please help me... GF3 - 13 Mar 2006 21:40 GMT > Hi, > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Jean What made you choose Canon? Have you purchased the body yet? What don't you like about Nikon's offerings?
bmoag - 14 Mar 2006 06:20 GMT If you are a beginner I strongly recommend you get the Tamron 18-200 and don't look back. The Canon is as good as any digital SLR for your purposes. Because this lens and camera combo is easy to use you will use it to make more pictures and the more pictures you make the more you will learn. There is no other way to know if you need or want other lenses. The most important thing in learning photography is to make a lot of pictures and not worry about changing lenses, which is better, etc. By modern criterion the lenses e.g. Cartier-Bresson used were terrible but I would venture he was a better photographer and made better pictures than almost any troll on this newsgroup, including moi. The Canon dSLR kit lenses basically suck anyway: they are the poster children for chromatic and linear distortion. The Tamron is no worse and probably better at the wide end and very good at the medium and longer ranges for all practical purposes.
Paul Murray - 14 Mar 2006 10:36 GMT > Hi, > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > performance point of view then I dont care going for the two lens > kit... If you are looking for a single-lens solution, and are not committed to the Canon body yet, you might want to investigate the Nikon D50 + the new 18-200 image stabilised lens. (Where I am the prices work out quite close for this against the 350 + Tamrom 18-200, might be different where you are)
Thomas T. Veldhouse - 14 Mar 2006 14:54 GMT > If you are looking for a single-lens solution, and are not committed to the > Canon body yet, you might want to investigate the Nikon D50 + the new 18-200 > image stabilised lens. (Where I am the prices work out quite close for this > against the 350 + Tamrom 18-200, might be different where you are) Good luck finding that lens ... it is as rare as the Nikon D200 it was designed for. Further, the lens will cost more than the D50 body it was mounted too ... probably not what a beginner is looking for. I do think it is a nice lens though.
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Wolfgang Weisselberg - 14 Mar 2006 21:01 GMT > I am a new comer to world of photography....I started with a Fuji > Finepix S5500 and soon realized that its not enough for me...So I > started searching for a better camera and ended up with a choice of > Canon Digital Rebel XT (EOS 350D).Now it is time to choose a lens.. So what kind of photography do you do, and how high is your budget?
> I have two options > Either go with one single lens > Tamron AF 18-200mm 3.5-6.3 XR Di II Asperical [IF] Macro Zoom Lens > or go with two lens for a reduced price > Tamron AF 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL > Tamron AF 75-300 LD F4-5.6 FS=62 1. Lenses with a large zoom range only get that by sacrificing something, e.g. speed, quality, ... but mostly quality. Ok, there are some which don't sacrifice quality that much, e.g. Canon's 28-300mm L lens, but ... where other 28-300mm lenses cost $260 or $400 (USD, adorama.com), you pay $1900 (refurbished) to $2200 (new) for that one.
2. The reasons you'd want a single lens with a huge zoom range --- even though it diminishes image quality --- are: - convenience (Not lugging around many lenses e.g. during hiking or holidays) - environments rather averse to changing lenses - needing to switch between tele and wide angle immediately.
3. You are aware that 28mm will only give you a viewing angle of a 45mm lens with the 350D? (1.6x crop factor) If you want wide angle at all, that's _bad_.
> Please give me your valuable suggestions We need your budget and what you shoot. BTW, have you bought the camera, if not, why did you choose it (this may give insights if there isn't a better matching camera for you)?
If I was you, and really had money, and would shoot all round, I'd probably take - a 20D or 30D (depending on the budget), or even a nice 1D :-) - the vertical grip (with an extra battery to fit) - a good flash (550/580 EX) or two (add one or more 420/430/550/580, depending on budget, for slave operation) - A good charger and enough batteries for all these flash units - a few *light* tripods (for the slave flashes!) - a sturdy, yet lightweight tripod with a good head (for the camera) - a fast low-light lens, e.g. 50mm f/1.4 (the f/1.0 is a bit too expensive :-)) or 35mm (which looks more like a classic 50mm on a 1.6x crop body) - an 10-22 EF-S for all your really wide angle needs (16-35mm equivalent) - a 16-35 f/2.8 L or 17-40 f/4 L for those wide-angle to normal wants - a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS for nice tele operations - a teleconverter (1.4x, and probably 2x too) for that 70-200 - a couple memory cards and a fast card-2-HD system for unloadingtake - maybe even a nice 400 or 500 or 600mm --- if I needed it and had the money. - add in a real macro with 1:1 capabilities --- maybe even a macro flash for it. Failing that, a 250D or 500D acromat and rings can give some macro capabilities, as well. - oh, a replacement focussing screen might be nice, too. - Don't forget a large and comfortable bag, one to take all your stuff -- and you probably want to rest the weight not only on your shoulder. A backpack is good for that, but a top-loading bag with belt allows you to balance the weight and get and change gear on the go. - probably a polarizing filter could be useful. - don't forget a good RAW converter and time to polish your images. - you _really_ need a back-up policy in place and working, lest you loose your precious images. - There are lots of other things: tilt-shift lenses, soft lenses, 200mm f/1.8 lenses :-), more non-tele IS lenses, ...
That being said, the most important thing is experience. (Just look at what the photographers had to work with 50, 70, 100 years ago --- and some of the images are still hauntingly perfect! Ok, most of the bad ones never survived.)
The second most is liking your equipment, even if that means buying only one *good* lens --- that may even be a non-zoom (which is _usually_ sharper, contrastier, faster, lighter and cheaper, too). A lens you don't like you won't use, so it's worth nothing, no matter how cheap.
The third: No matter what equipment you get, somebody will trump you --- even if you buy a xxxK$ xxxMP digital back on a medium or large format camera and extreme $$$$$ lenses. Don't let that turn you off. Learn the limitations of your gear, then learn to work around them and with them. It's dark? Use a flash. Don't like the red eyes? Bounce the flash over the ceiling and/or use slave flashes. Can't use flashes (e.g. museum or landscapes or too foggy air)? Try a tripod, monopod and/or IS, try with higher iso, use your fast lens, etc. Go to point 1 and get experience, or at least ideas from how others do things. Think about framing --- everything in the center is ... suboptimal. Think about using light, colour, shape, form, diagonals, ...
-Wolfgang
Charles Schuler - 14 Mar 2006 21:17 GMT Canon efs 17-85 IS.
It might be the only lens you need. Mine is on my 20D most of the time. (I have 5 other lenses)
w.beckley@gmail.com - 15 Mar 2006 11:43 GMT I think that it is important, when changing camera systems completely, that you lose as little as possible. You've become accustomed to certain things, and you come to rely on them, whether or not you realize it.
The S5500 has a few things that you might have become accustomed to that are worth pointing out:
-a 37-370mm (35mm equiv.) zoom range -a 2.8-3.1 max aperture -4 Megapixel
Obviously, the larger chip, faster performance, and reflex viewfinding of the XT (or 20d... which doesn't cost too much more and is much "nicer") will give you a significant improvement, and the 8 megapixels will give you more to work with in post. This is important to think about.
The concern here is that you're looking at an 18-200mm lens that would give you an effective range of 29-320mm. A loss on the telephoto end, but to be honest, a very small one (30mm at that end of the zoom range is a minor difference). So the lens may feel like a good replacement for the ranges you're used to, but consider the aperture. The tamron opens up to a 3.5 on the wide end (meaning you lose 2/3 of a stop) and a rather-ridiculous 6.3 on the tele end (meaning you lose two stops from what you're used to). This is not an insignificant amount of light loss. As some have pointed out, autofocus might not even work at the tele end of that lens, where it is arguably most essential.
This concern alone should rule out the 18-200. Pictures you're used to getting will be lost simply because you don't have the light. Even if you do, loss of autofocus could make those pictures unusable.
If you've been happy with the wide end of your lens, and see no need to go wider, you can look for a lens that has a 24 at the wide end. This suggests the Canon 24-105 f/4L IS, which would effectively be a 38-168. 168 is plenty long, you'd lose only a stop at the wide end and even less at the long end, you'd more than get that back with IS (except for depth of field, though with the larger chip you're probably still better off if you like to throw the background out of focus). If you occasionally need to get closer, you can crop and probably still have an image larger than the 4MP you've been using. You'd also have a fantastic lens that would last a long time an retain its value. I'll say nothing about the quality of Tamron and Sigma glass (okay, I'll add that build quality is generally shoddy), but they certainly don't hold value.
Do you need to get longer because you shoot tele most often? Then consider something else (perhaps the 70-300 4/5.6 IS, or the 70-200 f4L), and also get a wider lens.
I'll sum up anecdotally by saying that when I bought my first SLR, I opted for a slow sigma superzoom (28-200) and my pictures suffered. It wasn't until I bought a fast 50mm prime that I began to get great pictures. Loving, as I do, that kind of shooting, I recently found it necessary to grab a 28mm 1.8 prime that I could use as a fast normal prime on my 20d, in addition to my other three lenses. I'd recommend it, but that kind of shooting may not be for you. Consider it.
But I'd reckon that a 6.3 aperture is a kind of shooting that is even less for you.
Research your glass and don't get cheap. If you're already spending all of that money, spend the little bit more that you'll need to get a good lens. The analogies of expensive cars and cheap tires aren't just a joke or hyperbole; the lens makes the picture at least as much as the camera does, and I'd say considerably more.
I'll close by saying that others' suggestions of investigating other camera systems is a good idea. I wrote speaking of Canon both because you stated the XT and because I have Canon gear. But Nikon has some great options, and Pentax has alot going for it as well (both offer less ability to regain lost telephoto reach through cropping, however). If you view the camera as merely a box to hang a lens on, it make sense to find the lens that will work best for you and then consider which box offers enough features to get great pictures from that lens.
Good luck with your purchase,
Will
alertjean@rediffmail.com - 16 Mar 2006 05:33 GMT Hey Will, so what do you say about my other option ?
> Tamron AF 28-80/3.5-5.6 ASPHERICAL > Tamron AF 75-300 LD F4-5.6 FS=62 still I have a smaller aperture compared to S5500.. I was looking for Canon 'constant aperture' L series lens initially and obviously I dropped the plan because the lens will cost me more than my total budget...Let me ask you one thing how are the Fuji people managing to create 2.8-3.1 lens and able to sell them for less than $300 ?(including the camera)...I suppose that the trick lies in the lower focal length and higher multiplication factor ..Right ?
So what will be your final word if I am limiting the lens budget to $400-500 ?
Jean
w.beckley@gmail.com - 16 Mar 2006 11:28 GMT If you're fine with the 28mm (roughly 45mm equiv) being your widest option, this isn't terrible. I'd still caution you against the Tamron glass from personal experience with third-perty glass, but at least you aren't dealing with lenses that are too slow, which was my primary concern.
I respect that you've got a budget and that you cannot afford the "L" lens. But look at, for example, Canon's 24-85 or 28-105 lenses. Look at the 28-135 IS, which I've used and liked, if 28 is wide enough. I'll depart from my standard procedure and say that you should really consider Canon glass if buying a Canon camera.
After three SLR systems, I've made myself a rule that I'll only buy OEM glass and I won't settle for slower than 2.8 unless we're talking really long lenses where a wider aperture is an unreasonable expectation. Look, I'm not trying to be a gearheaded snob... I've just found that for my own personal shooting, the money saved on slower or non-manufacturer lenses isn't worth the headaches I put mysef through when I'm reviewing my pictures and I'm dissatisfied with my results.
You likely assume correctly when considering the cost of the Fuji camera system. Making those small lenses, especially for mass-production in a digicam, is likely not too expensive. But it also isn't too satisfying when you come down to it. You're upgrading for a reason, and that glass is part of the reason. Look at the 17-85 IS, or the new 17-55 IS if 55mm is long enough for you. Take that Fuji out one last time and figure out what focal lengths you really need. A camera can come and go but, ideally, a lens will last you through multiple bodies, especially now that digital has us all scrambling to replace bodies every few years. All of my lenses are great lenses that I'm happy to hang on my 20d or my Elan 7, which means I also exclude the EF-S lenses from my buying. If you know you want to go full-frame in the future, and you're buying lenses worth keeping in the long run, take that into account too and ignore the 17-85 IS and 17-55 IS.
It isn't easy, and like I say, it isn't necessary to stick with Canon. Find the lens or lenses that you think you'll be happy with and get a camera that supports them. Maximize your budget, because you'll be stuck with what you pay for. Be happy with wat you get, and you can't ask for more than that. Taking pictures with your gear will teach you a ton, and you may replace your lens (or your entire system) before you settle. I personally went through Pentax and Nikon before settling, and I could recommend both to anyone, but I found *my* niche in Canon's lens lineup and full frame digital bodies, which I hope to have in the next 2 years. Take an educated chance at what you'll need, and find yourself as you go along. It's the only sensible way to approach this; otherwise you'll agonize over what you may or may not need and find yourself without any pictures to know if you guessed right.
Will
> Hey Will, > so what do you say about my other option ? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Jean AaronW - 20 Mar 2006 05:00 GMT > So what will be your final word if I am limiting the lens budget to > $400-500 ? 50/1.8 28/2.8
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Wolfgang Weisselberg - 17 Mar 2006 12:29 GMT > So the lens may feel like a good replacement > for the ranges you're used to, but consider the aperture. The tamron [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > loss. As some have pointed out, autofocus might not even work at the > tele end of that lens, where it is arguably most essential.
> This concern alone should rule out the 18-200. Pictures you're used to > getting will be lost simply because you don't have the light. DSLRs have much better noise characteristics than compact cameras. Compacts go to 400 or maybe 800, but the noise is usually noticeable above 100. A DSLR can use 400 all day and won't show distracting noise --- and they go up to 1600 or 3200.
On the other hand, you want to stop down the lens somewhat if possible for better image quality. However, that also applies to compacts.
On the gripping hand, a DSLR has less depth-of-focus. Which means a better selective sharpness. IF you can open your lens wide. But if you want a 'everything is sharp' image, you need to stop down even more ...
> Even if > you do, loss of autofocus could make those pictures unusable. True.
> Research your glass and don't get cheap. If you're already spending all > of that money, spend the little bit more that you'll need to get a good > lens. The analogies of expensive cars and cheap tires aren't just a > joke or hyperbole; the lens makes the picture at least as much as the > camera does, and I'd say considerably more. Even though the *D*SLR has some more say in picture quality than a SLR. And it's just that less fun with a slow, weak lens.
-Wolfgang
ian lincoln - 18 Mar 2006 20:04 GMT >> So the lens may feel like a good replacement >> for the ranges you're used to, but consider the aperture. Unless you do a lot of selective enlargement or print A3+ don't worry too much. Unsharp mask can help to a point as well as things such as vignetting. Zoom lenses of 2.8 are very big and very heavy. They tend to be the better ones but also expensive. The L lenses that are constant aperture but F4 are much lighter than the 2.8 counter parts. about half the price too. When you think about it you are barely giving up one f stop. Prime lenses and second hand should be considered. All in all i went for a 28-105 mkII. Second hand it is same price as the new 28-105mkIII which is cheaper and more plasticky. If the lens has a solid chrome plated back plate instead of moulded plastic they tend to be better. My other main lens is the 75-300. No usm no IS. It is soft at 300mm but 70 is pin sharp and its usuable right up to 250mm. I also have a 70-200F4L. Its fantastic. Much larger filter thread and much heavier and same length as the my 75-300. To be honest i hardly use it. I would do better with the 24-105f4L. Go with the 17-55mm cheapie. I keep it just for wideangle. Rest of the time the 28-105 is used. 75-300 when i cover football. the long L lense would probably be sharper with a 1.4 teleconveter than the cheaper 300mm i have.
Unless you are dedicated sports the 17-55 and a 28-105 will be more than adequate for your first years shooting. If you can get the 24-105F4L instead of the 28-105. Don't worry about IS too much. Don't forget IS stops camera shake not motion blur. So low light shooting hand held or tripod is only good for slow moving and static subjects. Tripods are the most undervalued and under invested parts of kit today. Budget for metal not plastic.
Wolfgang Weisselberg - 20 Mar 2006 16:50 GMT > "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <ozcvgtt02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>> So the lens may feel like a good replacement >>> for the ranges you're used to, but consider the aperture.
> Unless you do a lot of selective enlargement or print A3+ don't worry too > much. Unsharp mask can help to a point ... but only to a point!
> as well as things such as > vignetting. Zoom lenses of 2.8 are very big and very heavy. They tend to > be the better ones but also expensive. The L lenses that are constant > aperture but F4 are much lighter than the 2.8 counter parts. about half the > price too. When you think about it you are barely giving up one f stop. Assuming similar quality, _usually_ the following will hold true:
There are 3 drawbacks for faster lenses (and edges for their slower cousins): 1. Price 2. Weight 3. Size
There are 3 benefits for faster lenses: 1. hand-holdability. The lens being faster, you can choose a faster exposure (at the same ISO --- which may already be the max ISO!), thus reducing camera shake and object movement. You need this for: a) sports & co in marginal light (indoors, artificially lightened, in tents, ...) b) available light shooting c) long lenses Admittedly, you can always use IS, monopods and tripods for low light conditions and long lenses, but: - it does never help with sports and co! - Even when shooting slow-moving people, there is a difference between 1/120 and 1/60 and 1/30 and 1/15. - tripods (and to a lesser extend monopods) are also heavy and large, eating up these two benefits for slower lenses. They also restrict mobility. - tripods are not usable everywhere nor allowed everywhere.
2. shallower depth of field. This is a direct function of the f-stop and the real lens length. (Compacts have small sensors, so they have a larger crop factor, so they have e.g. 6-34mm for "35-200mm equivalent", thus their lenses are very short and their depth of field huge.)
3. Usually, higher quality. Not only do you get to stop down more (thus usually improving the image), faster lenses tend to be better. (Though the 70-200 f/4 L _is_, from what I read, as good as or better than the 70-200 f/2.8 L.)
Lenses tend to deliver their best stopped down 1-2 stops. However, above f/5.6 -- f/8 diffraction effects (which are unavaoidable thanks to physics) reduce the resolution more and more. So if you start at f/8, you _cannot_ get as good an image as starting with f/2.8 and a good lens. Admittedly, there *are* bad fast lenses, and f/4 still has some room upwards.
> Prime lenses and second hand should be considered. Agreed. Better a good prime second hand than a bad new zoom.
[70-300]
> its usuable right up to 250mm. I also have a 70-200F4L. Its fantastic. > Much larger filter thread and much heavier and same length as the my 75-300. And the 70-200 takes the 1.4x extender and still auto-focusses, giving you 280mm --- sharp.
> Unless you are dedicated sports the 17-55 and a 28-105 will be more than > adequate for your first years shooting. If you can get the 24-105F4L > instead of the 28-105. Don't worry about IS too much. Don't forget IS > stops camera shake not motion blur. So low light shooting hand held or > tripod is only good for slow moving and static subjects. I've shot 200mm (320mm effective) handheld at 1/40s and (stabilized against a wall) at 1/20s -- to capture a musician's hand moving over the strings. I've shot it at 1/60s and 1/80s to avoid using flash --- people, unless moving (parts of them) fast, are not blurred. Of course, sports _is_ different.
Couldn't have done that without IS, even using ISO 3200 --- I already _was_ using ISO 3200.
> Tripods are the > most undervalued and under invested parts of kit today. Budget for metal > not plastic. Carbon, if you can pay the prices. Lighter, not as cold to the touch in winter and I understand that they dampen even better. Get a good head, one that will _not_ sag and has no slackness.
-Wolfgang
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