For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
"drop in" or simply fit, rather than screw in?
I see that Hoya make an ND 400 (approx 9 stops) filter, but can only
find a screw-in option (plus it's very expensive ~ US$100 for one
filter). I ask because I expect that with an ND 400, then in daylight
you will probably see nothing - or nearly nothing - through a DSLR
viewfinder, and then it is probably a big nuisance to remove and replace
the filter every time you want to compose an image.
Maybe there is some other way?
Ray Heindl - 01 Mar 2006 23:39 GMT
> For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
> Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> to remove and replace the filter every time you want to compose an
> image. Maybe there is some other way?
You could try stacking two polarizers. With the two aligned, you'd get
only a few stops darkening, but rotating one 90 degrees would make it a
lot darker. Align them while composing, then rotate one to take your
shot.
Here's a discussion you might find helpful:
<http://www.photosig.com/go/forums/read?id=207169>

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Ray Heindl
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Colin D - 02 Mar 2006 09:09 GMT
> > For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
> > Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> lot darker. Align them while composing, then rotate one to take your
> shot.
I think, when you stack two polarizers and set them at right-angles (max
darkness) they tend to still pass blue light, which would destroy any
color balance in the resulting image. ND filters are constant
attenuation across the light spectrum seen by the camera, i.e. it looks
neutral gray to the camera.
Colin D.
David J Taylor - 02 Mar 2006 09:18 GMT
[]
>>> For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>>> Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you
>>> can "drop in" or simply fit, rather than screw in?
[]
What about the material used for "eclipse-viewing" glasses? You could get
that as film, and put it across the end of the lens.....
David
slowphoto - 02 Mar 2006 10:40 GMT
>>>For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>>>Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Colin D.
Thanks, tried this looking through circular polarizer and polaroid
glasses (I assume that they are linear).
And yes, the result is very blue.
But would be okay for monochrome perhaps.
Paul Furman - 02 Mar 2006 15:16 GMT
> I think, when you stack two polarizers and set them at right-angles (max
> darkness) they tend to still pass blue light, which would destroy any
> color balance in the resulting image. ND filters are constant
> attenuation across the light spectrum seen by the camera, i.e. it looks
> neutral gray to the camera.
I guess that's why they call them 'neutral' density filters. Still a
digital should be able to handle the WB right?
Toby - 02 Mar 2006 15:26 GMT
>> For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>> Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> lot darker. Align them while composing, then rotate one to take your
> shot.
You can't do this with circular polarizers, which you need to use with
dslrs.
Toby
ben brugman - 02 Mar 2006 20:53 GMT
> You can't do this with circular polarizers, which you need to use with
> dslrs.
Yes you can do this with circular polarizers, the front of the one
circular polarizer should be facing the front of the other polarizer.
(There would be no polarizing effect this way)
Or use a lineair polarizer in front of the circular polarizer.
Using two lineair polarize might have the effect that some
thing do not work correctly,
AF could be a problem.
AE could be a problem.
And it could be that the filter in front of the sensor does
exibit some strange effects when a lineair polarizer is used.
ben
> Toby
Jeremy Nixon - 01 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
> Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
> "drop in" or simply fit, rather than screw in?
Yes, you can get a Cokin filter holder and then get filters from any of
several manufacturers to work with it. Check at B&H in the Filters
section.

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Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
slowphoto - 02 Mar 2006 10:57 GMT
>>Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
>>"drop in" or simply fit, rather than screw in?
>
> Yes, you can get a Cokin filter holder and then get filters from any of
> several manufacturers to work with it. Check at B&H in the Filters
> section.
Thanks,
Looked at B&H site. Would need "Z-Pro" (100mm) ND100 filter and holder,
so back to problem of expense, including shipping out of US. Okay if I
really needed this and would use it frequently, but I just want to try
it out for now.
tomm42 - 02 Mar 2006 17:46 GMT
Don't want to be negative, but you are trying something out of the
mainstream, and you seem to expect the stuff to grow on trees. You know
what you need now you could keep checking Ebay certainly you could find
the basic Conklin stuff there. But an ND 100 filter is a specialty
item. Checking older photo stores can sometimes yield interesting
stuff. Once found a box of Kodak gel filters at $1 apiece. So you
either have to put up the $ or search. If you want to do this project
enough you'll find the $. Sounds very interesting
Tom
PS I just realizedc this is exactly what an art teacher said to me,
when I was trying to get materials for a sculpture I had invisioned. No
Ebay then, but some good junk yards.
Ian Tindale - 02 Mar 2006 09:35 GMT
Is colour fidelity an issue? If it isn't, or you don't mind mono
together with false colour rendition, you could always try having some
fun at the same time with an infrared filter.
Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 02 Mar 2006 11:09 GMT
>For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>the filter every time you want to compose an image.
>Maybe there is some other way?
Make your own from some gel filter material?
David Littlewood - 02 Mar 2006 23:24 GMT
In article <1141253759.260604@ftpsrv1>, slowphoto <john@doe.com> writes
>For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>replace the filter every time you want to compose an image.
>Maybe there is some other way?
I have used the crossed polariser method mentioned by others (to
increase exposure time in photomicrography to take exposure time out of
the danger zone) and yes, even using top quality Zeiss polarisers, I got
a strong (blue) colour cast. I suspect, but cannot state categorically,
that this is a result of a frequency-dependent change in polarisation
efficiency.
A completely off the wall idea, which you can try for nothing: use a
slit in front of the lens. You would not want to stop down the lens, as
that would affect depth of field (and in extreme cases diffraction would
reduce resolution quite a lot). However, if you use the same approach as
that in cat's eyes you should maintain the optical properties of the
lens* but be able to attenuate the light by any amount - depends only on
the precision with which you make the slit.
*Except possibly for some astigmatism.
Try using a folding hinged pair of matt black** flaps mounted - an a
Cokin or Lee holder if you have one, or lash up some other way. You can
compose the picture with the "doors" open, then close them to take the
picture. Some trial and error will be involved to get the exposure
factor, but once you have it the factor should stay constant unless you
change the slit width.
**If the barn door arrangement is well sealed and no light can get
behind it, any opaque material will probably do.
Got to be worth a try, in view of the zero cost!
David

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David Littlewood
Mike Rooney - 02 Mar 2006 23:28 GMT
> For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
> Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> time you want to compose an image.
> Maybe there is some other way?
IMHO, there's no need to make this more complicated than needed to get the
results you want ..... just get the Cokin "P" holder and ND gel(s)....they
come in different "strengths (stops)" and you can stack 3 or 4 in the holder
if needed. This will allow you to compose your image and then just slide
the filters into place.
An important consideration is that the Cokin holder is wider than the end of
your lens thus avoiding vignetting which undoubtedly would occur if you
stacked multiple glass filters on the end of your lens. -- by the time you
compose, determine the settings, and screw in multiple glass filters, it
will probably be dark enough you wouldn't need any NDs anyway. :)
Hope this helps.
Mike
Hunt - 03 Mar 2006 15:40 GMT
>For taking long exposures in daylight with a DSLR.
>Is there a system available with a very strong ND filter, that you can
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>the filter every time you want to compose an image.
>Maybe there is some other way?
To simplify the process of attaching the ND, get a gel-filter holder (Kenko
makes/made a nice one with detachable lens shade) and buy some NG gels to
place into the holder. Keep the holder on the lens, and swap out NDs as
needed. ND gels are fragile, and not *cheap*, but you can quickly stack 'em,
and get all sorts of degrees of darkening.
Hunt