This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it has
the same short back focus as the Canon EF-S lenses?
Does anyone have any experience with this lens? I'm about to buy either
this or the Canon 10-22mm and I'm on the edge. The Sigma is about $200 less
expensive.
I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.

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Ole Larsen - 27 Feb 2006 07:47 GMT
Beach Bum skrev:
> This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it has
> the same short back focus as the Canon EF-S lenses?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
You can find tests on nikonians and kenrockwell. According to Ken, the
Canon is far superior.

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sierra - 27 Feb 2006 09:25 GMT
I have the 10-20 on my D50.
Great lens - but one unusual problem. I live in Spain, and the
(majority of) locals are litter-louts. Consequently if taking photos
from roadside care must be taken, as coverage of lens is from the tips
of your shoes onwards. Usually have to advance 10 metres into fields to
clear the trash zone!
Frank ess - 27 Feb 2006 18:11 GMT
> I have the 10-20 on my D50.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of your shoes onwards. Usually have to advance 10 metres into fields
> to clear the trash zone!
Canon 10-22 works good for me:
http://www.fototime.com/inv/952E0D0662BE8DE
http://www.fototime.com/inv/3F19E0817E493FE
http://www.fototime.com/inv/22B657CF66C3657

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Beach Bum - 28 Feb 2006 00:48 GMT
"Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
> Canon 10-22 works good for me:
> http://www.fototime.com/inv/952E0D0662BE8DE
> http://www.fototime.com/inv/3F19E0817E493FE
> http://www.fototime.com/inv/22B657CF66C3657
Hey, I've seen your photos before. :) Small world. Is that near downtown
St. Pete, FL?

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Skip M - 28 Feb 2006 14:09 GMT
> "Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
>> Canon 10-22 works good for me:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Hey, I've seen your photos before. :) Small world. Is that near downtown
> St. Pete, FL?
Looks more like La Jolla to me. When did they have cars on the grass at the
Cove, Frank?

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Frank ess - 28 Feb 2006 15:30 GMT
>> "Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
>>> Canon 10-22 works good for me:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> grass
> at the Cove, Frank?
Those were made at the "La Jolla Classic", January 2005. There was
another last month, but I forgot... Famous La Valencia Hotel is the
big pink building.
That day had perfect features: a Santa Ana hot wind from the east
stalemated with the onshore breezes, resulting in near-still air right
along the coast, mid-70s temperature. Lovely.

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Tropical Treat - 27 Feb 2006 11:18 GMT
: This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it has
: the same short back focus as the Canon EF-S lenses?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
:
: I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
Sadly, The Canon lens is not an L series. Neither is the Sigma A EX, DG
either. It (the Sigma) has a problem with flair where I would rather it
didn't. At about 15mm it is quite sharp but any wider and you get the
distortion/compression thing which tends to make people at the edge of the
frame look rather dwarf like. With either of these lenses, be prepared to
invoke some distortion and perspective correction. Quite a lot of it at wide
settings. Have you considered the possibility of using a 50mm lens and a
pano head, stitching the images together to get the coverage? It is almost
as much work fixing a 10mm Sigma shot as doing this.
Beach Bum - 28 Feb 2006 00:50 GMT
"Tropical Treat" <none@4.group> wrote in message
news:oeBMf.17314$yK1.1475@news-
> Sadly, The Canon lens is not an L series. Neither is the Sigma A EX, DG
> either. It (the Sigma) has a problem with flair where I would rather it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> pano head, stitching the images together to get the coverage? It is almost
> as much work fixing a 10mm Sigma shot as doing this.
That's an interesting alternative and I'm glad you mentioned it. I'll do
some research before dropping any cash on a lens. Thanks.

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bmoag - 27 Feb 2006 15:53 GMT
If you can you should look through these lenses with your camera, focus with
them, look at light sources, etc. There are some lenses, OEM and third
party, that are not at all what many reviewers and advertisers would have
you believe.
If you had a Nikon I would recommend you look through the 55-200 for an
example of a lens that has obvious issues the minute you try to look through
and focus. It is a very good primer for what can be wrong with lenses that
have been favorably reviewed in mass market publications.
While OEM lenses genaerally, but not at all always, tend to be technically
superior the price differential may be impossible to justify to the person
who is putting down the credit card.
For most amateur users the price difference between the OEM and third party
leneses like this can be a real deal breaker as qualitative differences, for
the purposes for which the lenses will actually be used, are not very
significant.
By current technical standards think about how lousy the lenses were that
were used in the 1930s, 40s and 50s to create the movies and still images
that changed the world and fill your head in ways you do not even realize.
At some point aesthetic ends trump minor consumer technical considerations.
Paul Furman - 27 Feb 2006 17:01 GMT
> This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it has
> the same short back focus as the Canon EF-S lenses?
It's almost surely designed for nikon compatibility.
> Does anyone have any experience with this lens? I'm about to buy either
> this or the Canon 10-22mm and I'm on the edge. The Sigma is about $200 less
> expensive.
I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
and that effects contrast quite a bit.
> I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
How about a prime of some sort? Check out the pbase samples to see what
that FOV looks like and the amount of distortion, flare & contrast, it's
lots of fun but I can't imagine needing wider than 12mm.
Beach Bum - 28 Feb 2006 00:53 GMT
"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:nfGMf.25537
> > I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
>
> How about a prime of some sort? Check out the pbase samples to see what
> that FOV looks like and the amount of distortion, flare & contrast, it's
> lots of fun but I can't imagine needing wider than 12mm.
To be honest I would greatly prefer a prime. I keep the 50mm on 90% of the
time (when the pin hole isn't in place <g> ). But I'm not aware of a super
wide prime in this range for the Canon. It's possible that my research
hasn't been complete as I've been rushed lately.

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Paul J Gans - 28 Feb 2006 04:20 GMT
>I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
>gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
>and that effects contrast quite a bit.
Anyone have any actual experience with the Tokina 12-24 for Canon?
---- Paul J. Gans
David Dyer-Bennet - 28 Feb 2006 16:57 GMT
> >I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
> >gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
> >and that effects contrast quite a bit.
>
> Anyone have any actual experience with the Tokina 12-24 for Canon?
No, just for Nikon. I've been very happy with it (I picked it based
on looking around pbase for photos shot with the various candidates I
was considering).

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Paul J Gans - 01 Mar 2006 03:52 GMT
>> >I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
>> >gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
>> >and that effects contrast quite a bit.
>>
>> Anyone have any actual experience with the Tokina 12-24 for Canon?
>No, just for Nikon. I've been very happy with it (I picked it based
>on looking around pbase for photos shot with the various candidates I
>was considering).
Thanks. The mount shouldn't affect the optics...
---- Paul J. Gans
Go-dot - 28 Feb 2006 21:00 GMT
>>I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
>>gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> ---- Paul J. Gans
I've has the Tokina 12-24 since last summer. I uase it on a 350D and
also on an original Elan (film). (Try that with an EF-s lens!)
Pluses:
Fits any Canon EF body (of couse, it doesn't cover FF at less than
17mm)
Very good contrast and resolution
Very solid construction
Comes with lens hood.
Less than $500US
Minuses:
Heavy (see above)
Zoom ring is "backwards" from Canon standard
I very much like the auto-manual focus switch, which is done by
pushing or pulling the focusing ring. Far better than a switch (ala
the 50mm f/1/8), but not as nice as the full time manual focus on my
28-135 IS.
I've done a close comaprison to the Canon 10-22mm EF-S. The Tokina's
build quality seems more rugged. The Canon is a bit sharper, if one
looks at 48" wide prints, but one really has to look closely.
I'd buy one again without hesitation.
Paul J Gans - 01 Mar 2006 03:55 GMT
>>>I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
>>>gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> ---- Paul J. Gans
>I've has the Tokina 12-24 since last summer. I uase it on a 350D and
>also on an original Elan (film). (Try that with an EF-s lens!)
>Pluses:
>Fits any Canon EF body (of couse, it doesn't cover FF at less than
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Comes with lens hood.
>Less than $500US
>Minuses:
>Heavy (see above)
>Zoom ring is "backwards" from Canon standard
>I very much like the auto-manual focus switch, which is done by
>pushing or pulling the focusing ring. Far better than a switch (ala
>the 50mm f/1/8), but not as nice as the full time manual focus on my
>28-135 IS.
>I've done a close comaprison to the Canon 10-22mm EF-S. The Tokina's
>build quality seems more rugged. The Canon is a bit sharper, if one
>looks at 48" wide prints, but one really has to look closely.
>I'd buy one again without hesitation.
Thanks. I'm likely to go for one in the next week or so.
I've got an Elan too. Haven't used it in a while. That
ought to be a hoot, even if I have to stay at 17mm or above.
--- Paul J. Gans
bob crownfield - 01 Mar 2006 15:01 GMT
>>> I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish I'd
>>> gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle shooting
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I've has the Tokina 12-24 since last summer. I uase it on a 350D and
> also on an original Elan (film). (Try that with an EF-s lens!)
of course the tokina 12-24 is not full frame...
> Pluses:
> Fits any Canon EF body (of couse, it doesn't cover FF at less than
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> I'd buy one again without hesitation.
Paul Furman - 01 Mar 2006 15:38 GMT
>>>> I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do wish
>>>> I'd gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide angle
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> of course the tokina 12-24 is not full frame...
The Sigma 12-24 is full frame. I'm thinking that doesn't really matter
now though. The Sigma is very straight without distortion, it is big and
well built with advanced AF, it has a strange bug-eye front element that
does not permit filters and a built-in hood with slip-on cap with a
removable front when not shooting wide open. It's only f/4.5-5.6 but
shooting wide that's usually fine because wides gather so much light
anyways. Sharpness is not a problem.
>> Pluses:
>> Fits any Canon EF body (of couse, it doesn't cover FF at less than
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>
>> I'd buy one again without hesitation.

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David Dyer-Bennet - 01 Mar 2006 15:47 GMT
> >>> I got the Sigma 12-24 instead of the Nikon. It's 'OK' but I do
> >>> wish I'd gone for the OEM now. Flare is a big problem with wide
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > Fits any Canon EF body (of couse, it doesn't cover FF at less than
> > 17mm)
I really wish people would *read* the messages they're responding to.
Just three lines after your comment, Go-dot shows they're already well
aware of the issue you were raising -- apparently more aware than you
are, since they indicate how wide you can go and still cover the full
frame.

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This old Bob - 27 Feb 2006 18:00 GMT
If it's anything like comparing the Sigma 15mm fisheye to the Canon 15mm
fisheye, the Canon wins easily while only about 25%(?) more money. IOW, I
wish I had bought the Canon. On these hi-res DSLR sensors, the difference is
easy to spot, not to mention the funky focus performance/motor issues and
general compatibility problems Sigma has sometimes when new cameras come
out. Not worth the trouble for a professional or serious amateur, IMO.
> This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it
> has
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
Beach Bum - 28 Feb 2006 00:55 GMT
> If it's anything like comparing the Sigma 15mm fisheye to the Canon 15mm
> fisheye, the Canon wins easily while only about 25%(?) more money. IOW, I
> wish I had bought the Canon. On these hi-res DSLR sensors, the difference is
> easy to spot, not to mention the funky focus performance/motor issues and
> general compatibility problems Sigma has sometimes when new cameras come
> out. Not worth the trouble for a professional or serious amateur, IMO.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll stop by North Tampa Photography and give them
both a try this weekend.

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Toby - 01 Mar 2006 05:15 GMT
I have one for a Nikon and am very happy with it. Excellent sharpness right
to the corners and very good correction of chromatic aberration. Build
quality seems very good, good contrast and excellent flare control for a
lens like this. The big downside is light falloff towards the edges near max
aperture, but it is quite smooth and not too objectionable unless you are
shooting something that is obviously monotonic (like a snow scene). I have
had various Sigma lenses in the past and was not terribly impressed with
most of them, but this one is a winner IMO.
Toby
> This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it
> has
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
Beach Bum - 01 Mar 2006 22:12 GMT
> This lens is said to be designed for digital cameras. Does that mean it has
> the same short back focus as the Canon EF-S lenses?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I want the wide angle for some landscape and home interior photos.
Update:
After reading the comments here and other related comments about sigma
lenses and reading some consumer reviews of both cameras, I decided to go
with the Canon. It should be here before the end of the week.
I'll post my opinion of the lens after scooping up a few photons with it.

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