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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2006

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DSLR or Down-payment?

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DJKingMatt@gmail.com - 23 Feb 2006 05:38 GMT
Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
really holding me back and I would like to stop missing shots and get a
DSLR. I got some cash for my birthday, and have been saving up a
little, and have about $550, and found a place to get a D50 kit for
$489. As far as the problem, I'll probably need a car pretty soon. I
live in Cedar Park, Texas, whick isn't that exiting, but Lake Travis
and Austin are close and the subjects there a great. Do you guys think
that buying a low-end DSLR would be a good choice right now? And if so,
I've already sent some images to istockphoto.com to see if my work has
potential, and I think that if I put in the time and effort, I could
make some extra cash and maybe be a photographer as a summer job If it
picks up some, or just work at the mall to make up for the cash I put
into a hobby I really enjoy. I need some guidance because my dad thinks
it'll be a good experience either way, but my mom thinks that i could
be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
ideas, lol? -Matt
Lionel - 23 Feb 2006 05:46 GMT
>Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
>such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
>ideas, lol? -Matt

Unless your mum means "working as a photographer" (the odds of anyone
earning $1500 with their camera in the first year are very slim), I
think she's got the right idea. I think $489 is about as cheap as any
DSLR is going to get any time in the next few years, & not having a
car will keep you motivated to save some of your wages. Just watch out
for the temptation to blow your savings on new lenses & memory cards.
:)
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. | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
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Matt - 23 Feb 2006 05:50 GMT
Yeah, I think I'll get it in a couple more weeks to be sure that's what
I want, and just put in couple more hours at TacoBell this summer, lol,
or not.
zeitgeist - 23 Feb 2006 06:47 GMT
> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt

If I listened to my mum, I'd have a house and a pension, besides the wife
and kids, or maybe the wife and kids would have the house and ... nevermind.

If you put that $500 into stocks you'd have a couple million bucks by the
time you are 50 or something like that, geez I wish I took my folks
seriously when I was a teen.  what was it, 100 a month turns into a million
bucks.

I don't suppose it would do any good to suggest that you listen to your
folks, they are smarter than you think.

guys without a car basically don't exist in modern american life.

4 or 5 mp is basically enough, though a dslr is cooler.  what do you get
paid for 'stock' shots these days?  a buck here and there?   Shutter lag
didn't bother me, though I spent 20 years shooting with a medium format on a
tripod all that time so the lag wasn't that much different from the slow
thoughtful pace that using a big manual camera required.
Darrell Larose - 23 Feb 2006 13:06 GMT
> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt

A $1,500 down payment on a car? Plus payments, plus insurance... I would
look for an older used car. I would buy the camera first, but wait as prices
will slip down a bit soon. I expect price drops on the Pentax *ist DL2, the
Nikon D50 and D70s and the Canon Rebel XT.
george - 23 Feb 2006 14:29 GMT
Car first...it'll get you to and from a job that'll get you the cash for
your dslr.
Usually passive stuff (post and wait) never amounts to much of anything...

> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt
Jonny - 24 Feb 2006 01:41 GMT
Bad idea.  A car is a money drain whereas an education or something else
pays dividends.  A camera that makes money is a better idea.

> Car first...it'll get you to and from a job that'll get you the cash for
> your dslr.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> > be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> > ideas, lol? -Matt
george - 27 Feb 2006 11:36 GMT
> Bad idea.  A car is a money drain whereas an education or something else
> pays dividends.  A camera that makes money is a better idea.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll make a fortune taking pictures of his apartment and
putting them with an Internet stock agency waiting for someone to pay $2.95
for a picture of an apartment.  There isn't even bussing for an education
above high school.  Job, education, marketing...in all instances you have to
be able to GET there and not everybody lives in a major metropolitan area
with good public transportation.

>> Car first...it'll get you to and from a job that'll get you the cash for
>> your dslr.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>> > be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
>> > ideas, lol? -Matt
Beach Bum - 23 Feb 2006 15:45 GMT
> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt

Disclaimer: Who the heck am I to tell you what to do?  But you asked, so
here's my opinion. :)

Cars keep on costing after you buy them and if you buy the car you may never
buy the camera.

So my free advice is to buy the camera and find a friend with a car and make
him your drive-me-everywhere-I-want-to-go buddy. :)

Signature

Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
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Mike Coon - 23 Feb 2006 20:19 GMT
> So my free advice is to buy the camera and find a friend with a car
> and make him your drive-me-everywhere-I-want-to-go buddy. :)

Hmm, and then find out which is the better chat-up line: go for a drive
and/or have a portfolio of modelling photos. But make sure yours is the
pretty one!

Mike (who's too old for chat-up lines more risky than "Cocoa?").
Signature

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Matt - 23 Feb 2006 22:59 GMT
Well, that was what I was thinking, besides, I still need to get my SS
card, and birth certificate, because they were misplaced, get my
permit, then get my 40 hours of drive-time in, then make an agreement
with my parents about insurance and stuff, I'm aiming for next
Feb/March to get my car maybe. Besides, two-blocks away I've got the
main-drag of stores for a job, and my parents will drive me if it's
farther than that, but I've got a bike and the bus-route. I went into
Wolf Camera to ask what they would suggest for $400-500, maybe upto
$700, and the guy pulled out this huge 28"x30", prolly a little bit
bigger picture of a swimmer taken by the D50, pulled the D50 out, took
me outside to let me snap some pics, then showed me the metering system
and other features, answed my questions, and everything. I'm set, I'm
going for it, lol. Later I went and snapped 250 pics with my S3000 and
it works well, but I'd like the 2.5 fps, faster save-times, almost no
lag time, and the shutter-click, that's just awesome. I was in-between
until I got my hands on it and got 30 mins. with it. It's amazing, lol
-Matt
Allen - 24 Feb 2006 14:32 GMT
> Well, that was what I was thinking, besides, I still need to get my SS
> card, and birth certificate, because they were misplaced, get my
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> until I got my hands on it and got 30 mins. with it. It's amazing, lol
> -Matt

http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/specialoffers/specoffers.html

D50 deal from Nikon in case you hadn't seen it.

Allen
Beach Bum - 24 Feb 2006 15:40 GMT
"Matt" <DJKingMatt@gmail.com> wrote in message

> pulled the D50 out, took
> me outside to let me snap some pics, then showed me the metering system
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> lag time, and the shutter-click, that's just awesome. I was in-between
> until I got my hands on it and got 30 mins. with it. It's amazing, lol

Sweet.  Have fun! :)

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Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com/gallery

Matt - 25 Feb 2006 04:44 GMT
w.Beck, that was amazing, lol, that is some of the best advice, on
photography, and more broad, almost life-long advice I have heard in a
long time, and I don't even know you, lol. It's true I love partying
and movies and highschool. Life is rich and interesting now, and I want
to preserve these memories. I'm gonna work with my camera for a couple
weeks more until my parents are convinced I really want this, which is
about 1 or 2 weeks, whick will give me time to get together a working
"digital darkroom" that's works better, hopfully with something to help
organise all my pics, I'm gonna try PS Elements, which sounds about
right for now. I'll probably use the Nikon software for the RAW files,
unless elements has this (or just CS, iunno). But anyway, I've got a
lot of work to do. thanks for some more inspiration! -Matt
wilt - 23 Feb 2006 20:47 GMT
You'd be well served to buy yourself a car, so that you can get a job
that permits you to buy what you want in photographic equipment, not
merely 'getting by' with a minimal kit.  On the other hand, you are
fooling yourself to think that $1500 buys a car, unless you settle for
a junker with tons of mileage and lots of problems.  You gotta earn a
lot more money to finish paying what the down payment started, and pay
for gas and maintenance (and when your parents turn you loose, pay the
insurance costs!)
ian lincoln - 24 Feb 2006 00:11 GMT
New cars need laptops to repair old junkers need feeler gauges and
stroboscopes.  Feeler gauge $5 laptop-software-specialist leads $555555.  Or
you can pay $$$$ for a proper mechanic and genuine parts and regualar
servicing.  Or you can buy a junker, a toolkit a manual and find out where
all the breakers/junk yards are.

As for DSLRs well the minolta d50 is a capable camera.  I don't know how
much the price will drop now that KM are pulling out of the imaging business
and sony picking it up.  If sony keep the km mount then i would start with a
cheap camera and kit lens then start saving for more quality optics that
will still fit on better cameras later.  6mp is more than sufficient and KM
make decent kit sorry thats made decent kit.  The built in antishake will
save mega bucks.  Look at the cost of canon IS or Nikon VR lenses.  Being no
longer made expect fire sale priced equipment on the market and plenty on
the used market.  Hopefully sony will keep the mount going.

The other thing is to stick with film.  Most such equipment is fire sale.
'real pros' stick to medium format.  People are trading up to digital like
mad and the market is flooded, hence dream prices on top end 35mm and decent
medium format stuff.  Medium format cameras seem to be mechanically simpler
and more robustly built so buying used won't be a risky.

Investing in quality scanning equipment may be the way to go.

Getting a job in a lab may be best.  Be the rookie junior.  Pick the brains
of older experienced mines and get a feel for the job.  The politics and
most important the business end of it.  Your success as a photographer will
rely more on your business savvy than your skill or equipment.

The most important thing is not listen to the armchair critics who will tell
you  you are dreaming.  GO FOR IT!
Matt - 24 Feb 2006 00:43 GMT
What? minolta? Dude, Nikon D50 is what I was aiming for. I thought
about film, but I just got a iMac G5 last christmas, and got Photoshop
for it, I think I'm pretty well off with straight-on digital, thanks
though. -Matt P.S. Sorry for the semi-flaming, lol
Darrell Larose - 24 Feb 2006 02:37 GMT
> What? minolta? Dude, Nikon D50 is what I was aiming for. I thought
> about film, but I just got a iMac G5 last christmas, and got Photoshop
> for it, I think I'm pretty well off with straight-on digital, thanks
> though. -Matt P.S. Sorry for the semi-flaming, lol

Hello Matt:

Post some of your pics so we can see how you are doing, and what you like to
shoot. Place like smugmug or pbase could be a start. The D50 is a nice
little camera and I am sure it will do fine. Some will claim you can only
shoot sports with a Canon, When I was you age I bought a Pentax Spotmatic
II, and shot Motocross. The equipment doesn't matter as much as the eye
behind it. My best advice is study whatever camera you get, learn everything
about the camera. Have fun! Shoot on manual so you can hone your skills to
see when the camera guessed wrong. The zen part is become one with your
camera.

Darrell Larose
Ottawa, Canada
http://DarrellLarose.ca
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 24 Feb 2006 04:56 GMT
> The equipment doesn't matter as much as the eye
> behind it. My best advice is study whatever camera you get, learn everything
> about the camera.
>  The zen part is become one with your
> camera.

Best info in this thread so far.

And to the OP: why do you need a DSLR?  Are you taking
action pictures?  Landscapes?  If landscapes, shutter
lag doesn't matter.  DSLR: you need good lenses and that
is more money.  Do you have a good tripod?  (more money).
Do you have appropriate filters (polarizer, split neutral
density)?

If you do outdoors stuff, light is critical.  Without
transportation, can you get to your location at best
light, e.g. sunrise/sunset?

When I was your age, I spend all the money I had
on a used Exakta camera, a few lenses and started
building knowledge and a system.  (It was before
I got a car, but I didn't need a car to get to school
or work).

Good luck.

Roger
Photos at: http://www.clarkvision.com
ian lincoln - 24 Feb 2006 12:51 GMT
thats fine.  it seems i got my d50 and 50D mixed up.

you seem to be doing all the right things.  Keep us posted with regular
reports

> What? minolta? Dude, Nikon D50 is what I was aiming for. I thought
> about film, but I just got a iMac G5 last christmas, and got Photoshop
> for it, I think I'm pretty well off with straight-on digital, thanks
> though. -Matt P.S. Sorry for the semi-flaming, lol
Alan Browne - 25 Feb 2006 15:37 GMT
> will still fit on better cameras later.  6mp is more than sufficient and KM
> make decent kit sorry thats made decent kit.  The built in antishake will
> save mega bucks.  Look at the cost of canon IS or Nikon VR lenses.  Being no
> longer made expect fire sale priced equipment on the market and plenty on
> the used market.  Hopefully sony will keep the mount going.

You really must get over the notion that Minolta made only kit lenses.
Their high end lenses are very good to extaordinary, in several cases
beating the Canon/Nikon equivalent FL/aperture lenses.

I have all confidence that they will still work fine after March 1.

Cheers,
Alan.

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ian lincoln - 28 Feb 2006 22:14 GMT
>> will still fit on better cameras later.  6mp is more than sufficient and
>> KM make decent kit sorry thats made decent kit.  The built in antishake
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You really must get over the notion that Minolta made only kit lenses.

erm minolta make decent kit or minolta make decent gear.  I didn't mean kit
lenses.  I have extolled the virtue of higher end lenses before for minolta.
Probably using kit.  Maybe its an british thing.  pcgamer and the fast car
type magazines refer to equipment and parts as 'a nice bit o' kit'
Jeremy Nixon - 23 Feb 2006 23:53 GMT
> I need some guidance because my dad thinks it'll be a good experience
> either way, but my mom thinks that i could be working and have $1500
> towards a car at the end of summer. Any ideas, lol? -Matt

Chicks like a guy with a car.  But they like a guy who can make them look
like a fashion model even better.  Just something to think about.

$1500 is going to get you a crappy car that you'll just have to spend more
money on (and chicks don't like a guy with a crappy car anyway).  You've
already discovered that $500 will get you a good SLR.  I'd get the camera,
get the job, and the car will come in time.

Signature

Jeremy  |  jeremy@exit109.com

Dave - 24 Feb 2006 01:23 GMT
Dear Matt,

The other's are right. You should think about a car. I have a son too who is
16 and I'm having a hard time getting him to think about saving for a car.
He would rather buy skate boards, video games, and junk food!

What ever you do, be responsible and work hard. You'll appreciate what you
earn. Hope things work out for you.

Dave

> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt
Mike Rooney - 24 Feb 2006 02:46 GMT
Matt, think four letters:  "E.-B.A.Y." -- you can get a good deal on a
camera that's in great shape and undoubtedly at a lower price than at
Wolf's.  For that matter, the same with a car.  You're on your own about the
chicks.....LOL

I'd go for the camera and a summer job as a photographer's assistant, at a
camera store, etc.

Mike
> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt
Tom - 24 Feb 2006 03:48 GMT
Camera + bicycle...car = big hole to pour money into....
friends have cars.

You see a lot of photographic detail from the pace of a bicycle (no
blind spots)...and meeting girls that exercise is very cool.

And yes, yes, yes,  if you can put even 20$/mo into a DJIA index fund
you will really enjoy life not too much later....

>Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
>such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>  
Matt - 24 Feb 2006 05:03 GMT
Yeah, I passed the test and sent 3 of my photos to istockphoto.com, and
that's pending, among the other 1800 that are (i wonder what # mine
are, lol), and also a self-portrait (required). As soon as that goes up
I hope to use that as a portfolio for now, I'll probably get .mac or a
free website up later to do some more selling, I also went ahead and
made a Paypal account for future use (probably jumping the gun on that
one though). That's my dream right now, riding around, stopping to hike
around for some pics that I can actually frame pretty big. I have to
wait a couple weeks to make sure this is what I want, after I start
school (just moved here). But even with the homework and parties and
other socials, I've found that wandering around taking pictures is
really a great release from the parents and homework and highschool
drama. Besides, I might just land a spot on the school newspaper to get
me back in school if they know I'm serious and find out I've got a good
camera, lol. -Matt P.S. Here's the website for my camera
(http://www.bestpricecameras.com/prodetails.asp?prodid=250633)

Mike, man, I don't need any help gettin' the girls, lol
Matt - 24 Feb 2006 05:11 GMT
Oh, and about the investing, I have a retired market-something i dunno
in my family that helps me with the index's and stuff, and already have
a couple hundred tucked away. Mostly in stock in JDS Uniphase (JDSU)
Iunno, I try to invest when I can long-term, and it's fun watching your
cash almost triple, but sometimes I go months without checking on it
and i get nervous when I do, lol.
w.beckley@gmail.com - 24 Feb 2006 05:57 GMT
I'll throw in what might be something of a different perspective. I'm
perhaps the youngest person replying to what you're saying (I'm nearly
24), so what I might lack in experienced wisdom I can make up for in
familiarity of situation.

You're young. You're really young. I know that coming from someone with
only 150% of your life experience that probably sounds absurd and
patronizing, but it's absolutely true. You've got alot of years ahead
of you. And the next eight will be full of more change than perhaps any
other eight in your entire life. When I was sixteen, I knew what I
wanted to do with my life: I wanted to be a stage actor. At seventeen I
got into a highly-exclusive summer program for theater, the kind where
getting in is a big deal, an accomplishment, and a confirmation of
talent (they took nine people out of an applicant pool pushing 500).
While there I realized that, while good, I wasn't up to par with two of
my peers. But I had an ability to see and understand things on a larger
scale, so I aimed at becoming a theater director. I did that for my
senior year, got into college, and decided to try film, knowing that I
could change back to theater if I wanted to. So at age 18 I decided to
become a film director. I learned more about filmmaking, got a ton of
experience, and found that I loved cinematography. Now I'm a
cinematographer, with more than 30 projects on film under my belt, and
I've finally settled down. Even still, I'm always tempted by the allure
of going out on my own and taking pictures, and becoming a
photographer. Real photography (making choices about exposure, lensing,
shutter, iris) is something I had no exposure to prior to learning
filmmaking and is truly an outgrowth of my cinematography.

I bore you with all of this to drive home two points, both of which may
seem to contradict one another. The first, from a practical standpoint,
is that you want to be a photographer now, but that could change in the
next year, and again the year after that. This isn't a criticism of
your drive, your talent, or your devotion, because I had all three when
it came to acting eight years ago. You just find new things and you
move on.

Counter to that, I went to high school in Tennessee and had no exposure
to real photography until I was older. Had I, at age 16, discovered
photography, I might have skipped the intermediate steps from actor to
cinematographer/photographer and just jumped head first into
photography, loved it, and been happy. You're a sixteen year old that
seems to have aspirations beyond Friday night's after-game parties and
passions beyond American Idol. I probably don't have to tell you that
that's somewhat rare. So my advice is this: if you can get by without
the car and can get gainful employ without a car, buy the camera now,
or soon. Relentlessly pursue the things you love, because you'll only
test the depth of your passion if you jump in head-first. And as long
as you don't break the bank or come to loathe and despise photography,
you'll be served well owning a dSLR even if only for a hobby.

Before you commit to the D50, however, look at the other options: the
D70, D70s, Canon Rebel XT, and Canon EOS 20D. All of these cameras can
be had relatively cheaply and are great cameras, but each offers you
something different. I imagine that your budget will leave it between
the D50 and the Rebel XT, but as someone who blindly jumped into the
D70 and then, a year later, bought a Canon 20D, I can tell you that
this is no decision to shake off. In the digital age, Canon and Nikon
are becoming more-radically different and you need to see which one
serves your tastes. I found out later than I should have that Canon
suited mine; my best friend is a Nikon user and given his photographic
tastes, it is the right call for him.

More than that though, I can't stress this last point enough. Back in
the day, before DSLRs, when I bought my first film SLR, it was common
on usenet to find people telling you that no matter what, you needed to
get a fast 50mm prime. "Get the zoom lens if you really think you'll
need it," they'd say, "but you'll learn more with a 50mm prime." I
ignored this advice. I bought my Sigma 28-200 and I had so much range!
And I didn't learn anything from my own still photography, other than
some composition.

Cinematography is where I learned actual things about lens selection,
focus, composition, etc... all of the things a fast normal lens will
teach you. It led me to buy that 50mm prime, which is what I used for
most of my favorite shots from that era. So by all means, buy that zoom
lens if you really think you'll need it. But buy a fast 35mm prime (if
you go D50) or 28mm prime (if you go Rebel XT). f/2.0 or faster. You'll
learn more. For one, you'll learn alot more with a truly fast lens, and
any zoom you'll be buying won't be fast. I promise you, I had that
18-70 with my D70, and it is a fine piece of lens, but it isn't fast
enough to bring to a party and snap interesting pictures. You can't
learn good selective focusing if you can only open up to 4. And once
you've gotten used to shooting with a normal lens, you'll have a better
idea of what you like... do you find yourself wanting to be closer or
wider?

And finally, shoot RAW and learn that end of things. That's the second
half of the equation these days, much as darkroom work used to be.

Good luck making these decisions, enjoy your photography, and enjoy
high school.

Will
Lionel - 24 Feb 2006 23:01 GMT
[Top-posting to preserve Will's truly excellent advice.]

Matt, this post of Will's is dead on the money, & probably the best
advice to someone in your position that I've ever seen. If you read it
carefully & take it very seriously, you'll fly past a heap of the
traps that most photographers - myself included - have fallen into.

And for god's sake get a fast prime lens! There's a reason that
everyone will tell you that you *need* a fast prime more than any
other lens, & the reason is that it'll teach you more about
photography in a shorter period than *anything* else.

>I'll throw in what might be something of a different perspective. I'm
>perhaps the youngest person replying to what you're saying (I'm nearly
[quoted text clipped - 89 lines]
>
>Will
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. | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
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---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Charles Gillen - 25 Feb 2006 01:52 GMT
>Before you commit to the D50, however, look at the other options: the
>D70, D70s, Canon Rebel XT, and Canon EOS 20D. All of these cameras can
>be had relatively cheaply and are great cameras, but each offers you
>something different.

And among the other options is a Pentax DSLR, which can profitably use just
about any Pentax lens ever made (and still sold on eBay). It may be the
VolksWagen or Rodney Dangerfield of the DSLR world... it gets no respect from  
Canon/Nikon snobs but its manual mode option will teach you more about the
basics.

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Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA

w.beckley@gmail.com - 25 Feb 2006 06:39 GMT
That's a fair critique of my suggestions. I have long ignored Pentax
DSLRs simply because their price/performance ratio, in my estimation,
can only be justified if you already have a mess of lenses... certainly
not for a new user. Is there any reason for the *stD to cost more than
a 20D? Does it offer any gain other than the lens mount?

But checking, I see the *stDL is rather inexpensive at B&H, and unless
that camera has alot of problems (anyone?), it is one to look into.
Pentax glass is great stuff, and can be had at great prices. And if the
body will support metering on old manual focus lenses, then this might
actually be your best option... certainly more cost effective than a
Nikon D200, which is the next-cheapest DSLR I know of that allows you
to use the old glass conveniently.

I learned everything on a Pentax, and it was great being able to grab
three old primes for $300. I'd look at the DL... if it performs as well
as the D50 (I think it shares a chip with the D50 or D70) and can use
that old glass, you'll spend alot less to get a full learning kit.

Will
Charles Gillen - 25 Feb 2006 14:44 GMT
> Pentax glass is great stuff, and can be had at great prices. And if the
> body will support metering on old manual focus lenses, then this might
> actually be your best option

For my *ist-DS I have old Pentax bayonet-mount glass from 16mm to 500mm
(besides the decent kit lens) and all manual lenses focus and meter
perfectly... you even get a focus confirmation light in the viewfinder.  
And on the DS2 the finder is a true pentaprism, not the small, dim
pentamirror of the Nikon D50.  The only Pentax lenses I would shun are the
oldest screw mount lenses which are a bit less convenient to use.

Only the cheapest *ist-DL model uses a pentamirror, but retains the superb
ergonomic controls of the DS and DS2.

> I learned everything on a Pentax... you'll spend a lot less to get a full
> learning kit.

I first bought a Canon Rebel XT but it broke (infamous error 99) in one
day.  I felt the Nikons in this price range had inadequate finders, so I
bought the Pentax even though all my previous film shooting had been on
Nikons and I had never owned a Pentax before.  On eBay I got 50mm f/1.7
lens for less than $40, and a 28mm f/2.8 for $68... the 1.5 crop factor
turns them into fast 75mm and 42mm lenses.  Pentax works fine for me.

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Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA

Alan Browne - 25 Feb 2006 15:34 GMT
> Hey, I'm 16, and have been using a Fuji S3000 with some filters and
> such for a little more than 2 years. The resolution and shutter lag are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> be working and have $1500 towards a car at the end of summer. Any
> ideas, lol? -Matt

Your mother is probably right.  The straightest line to your goal might
involve patience in order to have a reasonable quality kit at the end of
the summer as well as a good 'ole clunker to ride out to the subject matter.

You could also use just a few dollars to pick up a used manual SLR with
a 50mm f/1.8 lens and invest in 20 rolls of film and development over
the summer to develop your eye and learn exposure basics.  Then when you
get the DSLR at the end of the summer you will be experienced with your
eye and ready to really experiment freely in digital.

Buy the nastiest/cheapest grocery store ISO 100 36 frame negative film
(3.99 for 4 or 5 rolls) and get 4x6 prints (1 of).  If you work at it,
you can learn a lot in these 720 or so  exposures.  Maybe do your last 5
rolls in slide film which requires more exposure skill and will develop
your abilty to read the light.

Your local library may have some photography books.  Soak them up.  If
there are some wedding photogs near you, offer to be a pack-mule slave
for free at a couple weddings in exchange for the experience.  They will
want you to dress appropriately and 9 out of 10 of them will say no
(it's more work to coordinate you than to do it themselves), but worth a
try in any case.

MO

Cheers,
Alan

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