Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2006
Gear Story
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Alan Browne - 18 Feb 2006 16:55 GMT I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida (very nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C yesterday pm. Returned to -17C at home and 40 - 60 km/hr winds last night).
Anyway, as I was walking around the trade show at one point I spotted an older fellow with a large Canon digital. Sureptitiously, discovered it was a 1Ds Mk II. With a flash head (smallish) and a kit zoom. Trying to photograph a large booth (40 x 40') with a kit zoom lens. And he chimped every shot. And was puzzled over the poor results. And making adjustments, frowning, grimacing...
I let it go. Must be getting mellow.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
M Twain - 18 Feb 2006 17:12 GMT >I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida (very >nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C yesterday [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Cheers, > Alan So what, dickweed? Quit stalking an old man and get a life.
Alan Browne - 18 Feb 2006 17:21 GMT > So what, dickweed? Quit stalking an old man and get a life. You're no Samuel Clemens. I didn'd say "old man", I said an "older man".
Learn to read.
Further, use your real name, coward.
M Twain - 19 Feb 2006 15:41 GMT >> So what, dickweed? Quit stalking an old man and get a life. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Further, use your real name, coward. No, I am not Samuel Clemens, and yes, I am a coward, especially when compared to you. I would never have the courage to surreptitiously (or is that "sureptitiously", as you wrote? Learn how to spell.), observe someone and then write, in an ever-so-smug way, about what I felt to be his shortcomings on an internet newsgroup. What courage, sir! How ever were you able to hide your air of superiority from the older man you were stalking?
Michelle Vickers Twain Corrales, NM
Alan Browne - 19 Feb 2006 18:38 GMT >>>So what, dickweed? Quit stalking an old man and get a life. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > on an internet newsgroup. What courage, sir! How ever were you able to hide > your air of superiority from the older man you were stalking? Attacking spelling and grammar on usenet, except as a friendly poke, is especially poor form. But I forgive you. And if your name really is Michelle Twain, then I appologize for assuming "M Twain" was a pseudonym.
Smug? Sure. Why not. There are so many people around these NG's with equipment and no technqiue that I do feel a certain smug satisfaction with my relatively high knowledge and capability. At that, I always admit that I have a lot to learn and that it's a never ending cycle. If I live to be a hundred and ten I hope I learn something new and fascinating in my dying hours.
As to surreptious, it is a form of discrete, stealthy, clandestine observation, not cowardice. It is very normal human behaviour and like me, _you_ do it all the time, day in and day out just like everyone else. As I'm a long time photographer I'm always curious as to what gear people are using. And as I said elsewhere I often observe good and useful habits when watching other photographers at work or play. I've learned from masters and I've learned from newbies. That does not mean I have to talk to them about it!
I was posting about people (the older fellow) being frustrated that his $7000 camera body was not giving him his expected result because he simply does not understand how flash photography works. There is no amount of money spent on a camera body or frigging with its controls that will allow any camera in existence to make a single-flash-unit-on-camera shot of his large and deep subject and get a good exposure across the frame.
As he did not have multiple other flashes and flash controller (or slaves) to set remotely and light the scene properly; nor tripod to do a long shutter period available light shot, there was really nothing I could do to help him. It may be that he's not even a novice photographer and it's not his camera but one the company owns, or that he has more money than photographic knowledge or experience... he may pop into the store where he bought it and get the right explanation, or find it online or from a photographer friend or club, or even here in this ng. Or he may find himself enjoying the camera in less challenging situations.
The point was, as always: you can always screw up a photo regardless of how expensive and capable your gear is. For the photo he was attempting, a cheap 4 Mpix P&S on a cheap tripod with a longer shutter period, would have achieved an image far supperior to the one he was getting through lack of technique with his 16 Mpix camera.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Randall Ainsworth - 18 Feb 2006 17:22 GMT > Anyway, as I was walking around the trade show at one point I spotted an > older fellow with a large Canon digital. Sureptitiously, discovered it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I let it go. Must be getting mellow. Back when I was doing weddings, I was constantly amazed at the problems amateurs had getting simple shots. They can make the camera idiot-proof, but there's always the PEBCAK factor.
Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 18 Feb 2006 17:40 GMT >I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida >(very nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I let it go. Must be getting mellow. Mellow would have been taking a min or two and helping the person out, imo. You help folks out in usenet, why not the real world?
 Signature Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com) http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
Alan Browne - 18 Feb 2006 17:50 GMT Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:
> Mellow would have been taking a min or two and helping the person out, imo. > You help folks out in usenet, why not the real world? In a two and half day trade show I only had about an hour to go visit competitors and current partners, chase more traffic to my own booth and see what else there was that could be of interest to us (suppliers, potential partners, etc.)
Further, since there was no tripod handy or a pile of flashes + flash controller, nor a pack set and lights, there was no way I could show him the best way to do it.
At a prior trade show I did give some flash tips to another (20D) amateur photog that he has thanked me for on several occasions since.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 18 Feb 2006 17:57 GMT >Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >At a prior trade show I did give some flash tips to another (20D) >amateur photog that he has thanked me for on several occasions since. Ok, now juxtapose this with your OP. I took the OP as saying you were mellow because you didn't make some derogatory statement to the fellow having issues. If I took this wrong, I'm sorry, but that was how it came across.
 Signature Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com) http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
Alan Browne - 18 Feb 2006 18:15 GMT Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:
> Ok, now juxtapose this with your OP. I took the OP as saying you were > mellow because you didn't make some derogatory statement to the fellow > having issues. If I took this wrong, I'm sorry, but that was how it came > across. Don't sweat it. Was a time where I'd stop and try to help and then go on and firehouse the poor bastard with more info than he could absorb in a short time just to prove my vast (ahem) knowledge. I just let it go now. I also pay a lot of attention to photogs who I see here and there to see if they have anything to teach me ... and I learn a lot that way.
One of my booth inmates at this show was harping on how much he hated digital. So, in a fit of cruelty, told him all about the great prices he could get on used Hasselblad gear.... bwahhahahahaha.
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Randall Ainsworth - 18 Feb 2006 19:15 GMT > At a prior trade show I did give some flash tips to another (20D) > amateur photog that he has thanked me for on several occasions since. Experience has shown me that these kinds of people generally don't want any help.
Lionel - 21 Feb 2006 10:03 GMT >> At a prior trade show I did give some flash tips to another (20D) >> amateur photog that he has thanked me for on several occasions since. > >Experience has shown me that these kinds of people generally don't want >any help. Having worked with a number of people who've had more money than clue, I have to agree with you on that. Those kinds of guys (& it's nearly always guys) are the sort of people who'd not only be mortally insulted if a stranger were to get better results than them on THEIR TOY!, but would actually return it as "faulty" because it "should work just as well for me!".
 Signature W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Lionel - 21 Feb 2006 09:45 GMT >>I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida >>(very nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Mellow would have been taking a min or two and helping the person out, imo. >You help folks out in usenet, why not the real world? Speaking only for myself (although I suspect that any others here can relate to this):
(1) Because people often come in here looking for help, but out in RL, there's a fair chance that an offer of help will be taken as an insult to their 'expertise', or as patronising.
(2) On Usenet, I get to ignore newbie questions when I'm simply not in the mood for teaching.
(3) In RL, I earn my living handling technical matters for non-technical people, so most of my face to face patience get used up by my paying clients. This leaves very little for random cluebies - particularly the kind who think that money is a valid substitute for skill, talent & experience.
 Signature W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 19 Feb 2006 06:36 GMT > I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida > (very nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Cheers, > Alan Perhaps he really knew what he was doing.
I was photographing bighorn sheep and mountain goats at 14,000 feet this last summer with a lot of high end gear (1D Mark II, 500 mm f/4 L IS plus shorter lenses). Along comes this unassuming guy with a Canon 10D, 28-135 IS zoom lens, sits down beside me and hand holding starts clicking off frames as he pans.
We got to talking. He tells me his name was Charlie Brown (I almost said, yeah right!). He explained how he does panoramics, and through the conversation I realized he had a set of vertical panos hanging in a gallery where some of my prints were. They were six-foot tall slot canyon images, done with his 10D. I thought for sure they were large format--very stunning.
A month later I encountered him at a local craft fair where he had a booth. More stunning 4 foot and larger panoramics, many done hand held and what most "knowledgeable" photographers would swear were done with tripod mounted 6x17 cameras (at least).
Very nice guy, and brilliant photographer:
http://www.charliebrownphotos.com
Roger
Alan Browne - 19 Feb 2006 18:46 GMT > Perhaps he really knew what he was doing. No. See below.
> I was photographing bighorn sheep and mountain goats > at 14,000 feet this last summer with a lot of high end [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "knowledgeable" photographers would swear were done > with tripod mounted 6x17 cameras (at least). I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. I recently saw some large panos (24 x 48" or so), each made with 10 to 12 images from 35mm film that I assumed were LF before I read the accomanying description. In ambient light on a sunny day (eg: ISO 100 f/16 1/100 or f/11 1/200) with a short FL lens, it is not only feasible handheld, it is quite easy. Best to use a tripod however, if only to make the editing process a little easier and to get the most out of each frame.
Contrast that with the clearly frustrated gent that I saw using a single flash for an indoor, large/deep scene and you have very different situations. Again, a tripod would have been the only thing needed to get a decent (even a great) available light shot of his company's booth.
Or, hire a pro.
Cheers, Alan.
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Minister of Information - 23 Feb 2006 17:25 GMT Chimped?
>I was at a trade show for the better part of last week in sunny Florida >(very nice on Thur/Fri in the upper 20's (Centigrade) and even over 30C [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Cheers, > Alan Alan Browne - 25 Feb 2006 15:42 GMT > Chimped? Derived from people taking a shot and then looking in the camera monitor and going "ooh" / "ahh".
Don't top post.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
M Twain - 25 Feb 2006 16:05 GMT >> Chimped? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers, > Alan You have some problems, don't you?
Alan Browne - 25 Feb 2006 16:09 GMT > You have some problems, don't you? I'm sure whatever problems I may have pale in comparison to yours.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
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