Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2006
Questions for Canon 5D owners/users
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RiceHigh - 13 Feb 2006 06:24 GMT My new DSLR plan comes closer to reality. I am now taking a closer look at the 5D. If acquired, I think I shall get together with the 24-105/4L IS and the 430 flashgun to start my new DSLR system.
Just wish to seek assistance from you 5D guys on the following:-
1. Any *real* sample photos to share? Any 5D *user* galleries? (your own or simply providing URLs ot those are just fine);
2. Have you ever wrongly chosen/used an unwanted ISO speed because of there is no ISO displayed all the time neither in the viewfinder nor in the monochrome LCD?
3. How about the wide angle image corner performance with the 24-105L, especially at wide opened at f/4 at 24mm?
4. Is the combo (5D + 24-105L) too heavy for casual family shootings? Or, maybe the set will be even heavier with the 430 flashgun plus the spare battery pack too. Well, we all know that the 5D don't have the handy built-in flash :-( for its professional status as ranked by Canon
:) 5. Anything I should note before I get this (seems to be) wonderful piece of DSLR "Kit"?
Any comments and inputs will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance very much for any help!
Regards, RiceHigh http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
Skip M - 13 Feb 2006 13:18 GMT > My new DSLR plan comes closer to reality. I am now taking a closer look > at the 5D. If acquired, I think I shall get together with the 24-105/4L [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 1. Any *real* sample photos to share? Any 5D *user* galleries? (your > own or simply providing URLs ot those are just fine); http://www.pbase.com/skipm/people http://www.pbase.com/skipm/lenstests The latter gallery consists of images meant to be as difficult for the camera/lens combos to handle as I could make it that day. Real world shooting hasn't duplicated some of the softness/light fall of I got on these images.
> 2. Have you ever wrongly chosen/used an unwanted ISO speed because of > there is no ISO displayed all the time neither in the viewfinder nor in > the monochrome LCD? No. Since the ISO comes up when it's being changed, that's rarely an issue.
> 3. How about the wide angle image corner performance with the 24-105L, > especially at wide opened at f/4 at 24mm? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > handy built-in flash :-( for its professional status as ranked by Canon > :) I can't comment on either issue, since I don't have that lens, but as far as the built in flash, that has its limitations, too, like being blocked by large diameter lenses and lens hoods, and a very limited range (guide number of 12 vs 43 for the 430.)
The camera does impress me as being a bit on the overkill side for casual family "shootings." For more casual work that, for some reason requirse and SLR, I take along my 20D. But, to each their own.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
RiceHigh - 14 Feb 2006 06:33 GMT Thanks a lot for your sample galleries. To me the wide angle performance of the 5D with L lenses are acceptable, e.g. 16-35 at 16 and 24-70 at 24, although some blur and softness can be seen when viewed 100%. For a high pixel count of the 5D, viewing 100% really means a very large picture, though. When viewed at 70%, which is roughtly equivalent to 100% at 6M, it blows my 6M Pentax DSLRs away easily.
RiceHigh http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
go go dancer - 15 Feb 2006 04:21 GMT I thought this discussion was about 5D canon DSLRs. Up to the point where you said "built in flash" I thought you were talking about a 5D too. It seems not. 5Ds don't have any built in flash. Your comment about lenses blocking the flash must relate to something else?
Maddy.
Skip M - 15 Feb 2006 05:42 GMT >I thought this discussion was about 5D canon DSLRs. Up to the point > where you said "built in flash" I thought you were talking about a 5D > too. It seems not. 5Ds don't have any built in flash. Your comment > about lenses blocking the flash must relate to something else? > > Maddy. No, I was commenting that the lack of a built in flash is over-emphasized, since it is blocked by lenses of the diameter that would most often be used on a 5D.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
John Meyer - 13 Feb 2006 16:17 GMT If RiceHigh actually goes through with this plan, you will soon be treated to endless tomes on Canon quality issues, badly photographed test charts, and lengthy letters to the CEO of Canon. You will not be treated to photos of living beings, objects that exist in nature, or anything else. But he will eventually move to Nikon....
> My new DSLR plan comes closer to reality. I am now taking a closer look > at the 5D. If acquired, I think I shall get together with the 24-105/4L [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > RiceHigh > http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
 Signature One is always considered mad when one perfects something that others can not grasp. - Ed Wood
RiceHigh - 14 Feb 2006 06:39 GMT Your Sig quote say it all for what I ought to reply to your prediction:- "One is always considered mad when one perfects something that others can not grasp."
You should note again I encounter NO "quality" issue with ALL of my film Pentax FA lenses and my Pentax MZ SLR bodies. The problems only occurred with *ist D, *ist DS and the digital DA lenses.
I am sure that you haven't read my letter you mentioned in full, here it is:- http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh/A_Letter_to_the_CEO_of_Pentax_Corporation.html
(You may not bother to read btw, I post the link here just for others' reference)
RiceHigh http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
Paul Furman - 13 Feb 2006 18:29 GMT > 2. Have you ever wrongly chosen/used an unwanted ISO speed because of > there is no ISO displayed all the time neither in the viewfinder nor in > the monochrome LCD? That drives me nuts on my Nikon D70.
RiceHigh - 14 Feb 2006 06:39 GMT Kennedy McEwen - 13 Feb 2006 22:55 GMT >Just wish to seek assistance from you 5D guys on the following:- > >1. Any *real* sample photos to share? Any 5D *user* galleries? (your >own or simply providing URLs ot those are just fine); Over a dozen available in full resolution jpg format at: http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/canoneos5d_samples/
>2. Have you ever wrongly chosen/used an unwanted ISO speed because of >there is no ISO displayed all the time neither in the viewfinder nor in >the monochrome LCD? No - the screen displays both shutter speed and aperture and if that in combination with the subject isn't enough to clue you in that the selected ISO is not close to your intended speed then this is probably to complex a camera for you in any case. Most folk with a little practice can guess exposure to at least a stop accuracy - and there isn't much difference in the performance of the 5D if the ISO is out by less than that.
>3. How about the wide angle image corner performance with the 24-105L, >especially at wide opened at f/4 at 24mm? Surprisingly sharp - though obviously not as good as a 24mm prime. There is a little barrel distortion throughout the range with this lens but, unless you have straight objects (eg. horizon or verticals) close to the frame edge you won't notice it. Actual geometric distortion is a lot less than the 24mm Olympus OM lens I have - I found all of the OM wides tended to make objects close to the side appear wider than they really were. None of that with this lens.
>4. Is the combo (5D + 24-105L) too heavy for casual family shootings? Depends on what you are used to. Its a chunky bit of glass, no doubt about it, but the 105mm reach makes it less obtrusive than it could be. A small prime, such as the 35mm or even a cheap 50mm would be a lot more discrete for that type of application. And a P&S even more so.
>Or, maybe the set will be even heavier with the 430 flashgun plus the >spare battery pack too. Again, a fast 50mm means you will need the flash even less. I use the 580EX and that doesn't disturb the balance of the 24-105L very much.
>5. Anything I should note before I get this (seems to be) wonderful >piece of DSLR "Kit"? Good: Noise is exceptional. I estimate I get similar noise at ISO 1600 as I used to achieve on ISO 50 Velvia film.
Initially irritating: The flash system takes a bit of getting used to unless you are familiar with the Canon way of doing things already - conventional TTL metered flash requires the camera to be set to *manual* mode, otherwise it defaults to fill flash.
Annoying: Shutter and mirror damping quite poor - despite the heavier body, a long lens may require a tripod upgrade for moderate shutter speeds.
Concerning: Reports of dust leaking in behind the non-user removable AF indicator plate that sits over the interchangeable focus screen, which is virtually immovable.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=16928769
Haven't experienced anything worse than standard SLR problems myself yet (an occasional air blast inside has kept mine clean for a couple of months now) but there are a *LOT* of reports about it on the net, and Canon are apparently "investigating".
 Signature Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed. Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
RiceHigh - 14 Feb 2006 06:50 GMT Thanks a lot for your detailed reply! They are very useful. :-)
Regarding the shutter and mirror damping, I hope it would be better such that the IS is not needed to compensate for the vibration which the camera itself creates :-( Could you tell me more on actually how bad you experienced with this? Is the problem serious enough or just things are just not as good (as 1Ds or 1D etc.)?
The absence of ISO indication is not ideal but I guess I can live with it.
For Dpreview samples, I am not a believer for Phil Askey, frankly speaking. Just becoz he managed to take excellent sample shots with whatever camera he had!
RiceHigh http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
Kennedy McEwen - 14 Feb 2006 09:03 GMT >Thanks a lot for your detailed reply! They are very useful. :-) > >Regarding the shutter and mirror damping, I hope it would be better >such that the IS is not needed to compensate for the vibration which >the camera itself creates :-( Could you tell me more on actually how >bad you experienced with this? This was with a very long (>1000mm) manual focus lens taking some photos of the moon with camera and lens mounted on a tripod. This was the same configuration as I had shot similar images a few years ago on a film camera - exactly the same lens mounted on the Canon with an adapter. According to my previous notes, I hadn't even used mirror lockup on the film camera, but even with mirror lock on the D5 there was very visible camera movement in the final images.
It isn't anything I have noticed with more conventional focal lengths or hand held.
> Is the problem serious enough or just >things are just not as good (as 1Ds or 1D etc.)? No idea - I haven't used those in similar situations.
>The absence of ISO indication is not ideal but I guess I can live with >it. > >For Dpreview samples, I am not a believer for Phil Askey, frankly >speaking. Just becoz he managed to take excellent sample shots with >whatever camera he had! The London venues look pretty similar to what I have.
 Signature Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed. Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
Matt Clara - 14 Feb 2006 15:19 GMT > Good: > Noise is exceptional. I estimate I get similar noise at ISO 1600 as I > used to achieve on ISO 50 Velvia film. Holy sh.t! I'm surprised that Canon isn't touting such incredible noise control. Velvia ISO 50? It's noise is almost non-existent! Wow!
 Signature Regards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com
Kennedy McEwen - 14 Feb 2006 22:37 GMT >> Good: >> Noise is exceptional. I estimate I get similar noise at ISO 1600 as I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >control. Velvia ISO 50? It's noise is almost non-existent! >Wow! Its a bit like remembering the 60's - if you haven't seen the noise on Velvia then you haven't really used it! ;-)
After I posted this subjective conclusion in another thread someone directed me to Roger Clarke's already existing chart which shows objectively and quantitatively how close they are for the 1D Mk. II. I suspect that the 5D is similar, if not better.
http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.signal.to.noise/digital-s-to-n .v1.gif
 Signature Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed. Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
Matt Clara - 16 Feb 2006 14:35 GMT > >> Good: > >> Noise is exceptional. I estimate I get similar noise at ISO 1600 as I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.signal.to.noise/digital-s-to-n > .v1.gif I use Velvia--just scanned some medium format on my 8000ED in fact, and yeah, there's grain there, but I'm calling you on your claim that the Canon 1600 iso is equivalent to Velvia 50's grain. That's a load of nonsense. Though there is grain in velvia, it's among the finest of any slide film and is finer than any negative film except for a few technical films, and those are black and white films. To claim that Canon's noise at ISO 1600 is lower than every negative film produced today (except those tech films), is pure poppycock. You should keep your claims to a more realistic level. If you'd said ISO 200, I wouldn't be here calling you on it.
And I've heard Roger Clark make other specious claims as well--just because he drew up a chart doesn't mean a thing, other than he drew up a chart.
Finally, if it really is better at ISO 1600 (or even 800, or 400), why isn't Canon all over the map with such a claim? Really, that's quite a significant feat.
 Signature Regards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com
Philip Homburg - 16 Feb 2006 17:50 GMT >I use Velvia--just scanned some medium format on my 8000ED in fact, and >yeah, there's grain there, but I'm calling you on your claim that the Canon [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >And I've heard Roger Clark make other specious claims as well--just because >he drew up a chart doesn't mean a thing, other than he drew up a chart. What seems very sloppy in <http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.signal.to.noise/> is that absolutely no details are given about the scanning process.
Given that he compares Velvia to a 8 Mpixel 1D mk II, it is only fair to Velvia to compare to a high quality 8 Mpixel drumscan (or equivalent).
 Signature That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
go go dancer - 20 Feb 2006 22:21 GMT The basic problem with Rodger Clark's site is that it seeks to compare film which when printed from an optical enlarger, produces "photographs" the likes of which digital cameras have yet to equal ...by lowering the film's advantages to the level of a digital image. This is an entirely wrong process which will ovbiously show digital to have an advantage.
What that advantage is in real terms of a "photograph", is never discussed or comtemplated. A test which would be fair to film, would be to make a 4000 DPI transparency and print that alongside a real, film trannie. That would be fair to the film and not the digital. No digital fanatic will entertain such a test because they know it would make the digital image from their $10,000 camera look terrible. Isn't this just what Clark has done to film?
Paul Furman - 20 Feb 2006 22:39 GMT > The basic problem with Rodger Clark's site is that it seeks to compare > film which when printed from an optical enlarger, produces [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > digital image from their $10,000 camera look terrible. Isn't this just > what Clark has done to film? But (most?) picky pros these days don't print with an enlarger, they scan.
Skip M - 21 Feb 2006 03:50 GMT > The basic problem with Rodger Clark's site is that it seeks to compare > film which when printed from an optical enlarger, produces [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > digital image from their $10,000 camera look terrible. Isn't this just > what Clark has done to film? Roger does not do all of his comparisons with scanned film. He compares the negatives' theoretical resolution with that of the sensors, not the scanned image vs. the digital image. And not only have digital cameras equaled the film print from an enlarger, they has, in some cases, exceeded it. We were showing at a bridal fair a few months ago when another exhibiting photographer came over to our booth and, after looking over our 12x18 and 16x20 images, said, slightly condescendingly, "how nice" it was to see someone still shooting medium format film. He had pretty much given up on 35mm film and started using a D70s, but, still it was nice to see people still using the old methods. He looked a little pale when my wife, very sweetly, said, "Oh, no, those are from our 5Ds..." If our Canon 5D cameras can fool another photographer, think about the 16mp 1Ds mkII... A truly fair comparison would be to print from the native source, not jimmy it around to give film an advantage. Print a 16x20 from a 1Ds mkII and an R or C print from Ektachrome 100, both shot with the same Canon glass. No scan, no interneg, just direct from both sources. Heck, I'd put my 5D up against that...
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Philip Homburg - 21 Feb 2006 10:20 GMT >A truly fair comparison would be to print from the native source, not jimmy >it around to give film an advantage. Print a 16x20 from a 1Ds mkII and an R >or C print from Ektachrome 100, both shot with the same Canon glass. No >scan, no interneg, just direct from both sources. >Heck, I'd put my 5D up against that... There is no reason to assume that a direct enlargement from 35mm film would be better than digitally printing a drum scanned version.
It is possible that optical enlargements are better, but I never saw any proof of that. I do know that sharpening scans is much easier than sharpening 35mm prints. So for subjects that are supposed to be sharp, direct enlargements put film at a disadvantage.
 Signature That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Skip M - 22 Feb 2006 00:17 GMT >>A truly fair comparison would be to print from the native source, not >>jimmy [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > sharpening 35mm prints. So for subjects that are supposed to be sharp, > direct enlargements put film at a disadvantage. True, but it removes the "but it's really just a digital image" statement from the discussion. I've seen high quality drum scans that far exceeded anything I could ever produce in the darkroom, that's for sure!
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Philip Homburg - 22 Feb 2006 08:40 GMT >True, but it removes the "but it's really just a digital image" statement >from the discussion. I don't care about the "but it's really just a digital image" people. Other than some high-end B/W, the best way to process an image these days is using digital.
There is however, a bit of truth in that statement. An image does look different on a screen than it looks in print. For high resolution images, it is prints that we care about. So any real world quantative approach would have to take the effects of printing into account.
 Signature That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Skip M - 22 Feb 2006 12:06 GMT >>True, but it removes the "but it's really just a digital image" statement >>from the discussion. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it is prints that we care about. So any real world quantative approach > would have to take the effects of printing into account. Frankly, if I had realized that it was our buddy, Dougie from Down Under, I wouldn't even have bothered to reply. But I feel, as you do, that a print from both sources is the only way to compare, since that is the final product for me. After all, if all you're going to do is display on the internet, or email the images, 8-16 megapixels is so much overkill as to beggar the term...
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 21 Feb 2006 11:39 GMT >The basic problem with Rodger Clark's site is that it seeks to compare >film which when printed from an optical enlarger, produces >"photographs" the likes of which digital cameras have yet to equal >...by lowering the film's advantages to the level of a digital image. Hi, DOUGLAS!!
Well, for a start, you clearly haven't investigated much of Roger's site.
And, Douglas, the basic problem is that people like you (who thinks the bloody awful image hung in the Redland Times office - yes, I've seen it too, and it is a *joke*), with little useful experience in the field, make wild claims about the 'huge' differences between a 4000ppi scan of 35mm film and what can be done via a purely optical process.
But let's be fair - yes, there *is* a bit more to drag out of high-quality film than a 4000 ppi scanner can grab (and Roger covers this topic quite well, so you clearly haven't examined his work in any detail). But it is normally so far down and buried in film grain, that for all but the best fine-grained color transparency film (and of course black and white) it is almost a lost cause. By the way, do you shoot weddings on Provia or Velvia? (Actually, having seen Douglas' stuff, I think he might...)
And then once you add on the problems, effort and expense of having an optical/chemical system of the necessary quality to actually utilise that extra, largely theoretical, resolution, it is little wonder no-one but the technically-challenged ostriches continue with this mantra.
This is, of course, the same Douglas who has now dumped digital because it wasn't performing well enough, and who has *endless* problems with equipment letting him down and giving him terrible results. Now, what was the common factor in all those failures and problems, with all those different cameras/lenses....? (O:
Real photographers don't blame their equipment, and they know the limits of film and digital. If you are talking about anything *other* than fine grained transparency film or black and white, then a 4000 ppi scan isn't that far short of the medium's limits. It takes an exceptional image on exceptional film to justify an 8000-12000 ppi drum scan. Can you point to any professional who suggests that optical enlarging is better than drum scanning..? Do *you* suggest that?
Experienced and knowledgable photographers (ie not you) understand that once you start talking about poster size enlargements and *truly sharp detail*, that 35mm film is not the format of choice in the first place. Why do you think that (wedding/portrait) photographers in the big-end of town use either MF, or if they do go digital, it's the likes of the 1DSII? Because they like carrying more weight?
And Douglas, some of us have *standards* - we know you CAN'T manufacture real detail to make up for insufficient resolution, no matter how many times you post that claim! Eg, here:
http://tinyurl.com/fngwa Douglas' title - "Enlarged digital images with more detail than the original"
http://tinyurl.com/fjske Douglas' title - "Enlarging Digital images - proof it works"
(If you visit those threads, don't bother visiting Dougie's links - he's pulled all the flawed 'evidence' long ago.)
And stop posting as "go go dancer". You've been outed.
RiceHigh - 21 Feb 2006 12:21 GMT I haven't read through all the links provided. But I suspect what have been discussed here recently is all about the workflow process. Indeed, the workflow can be consisted of a number of stages which can be purely digital or analog or a mixture of both. I think no matter what they are, they can be good or not depending on the effectiveness of the combination, equipment used in each step, techniques applied, and the requirements of the final products (user/client requirements afterall).
My two cents.
Cheers, RiceHigh http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
Skip M - 22 Feb 2006 00:19 GMT > >The basic problem with Rodger Clark's site is that it seeks to compare >>film which when printed from an optical enlarger, produces [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well, for a start, you clearly haven't investigated much of Roger's > site. I thought that sounded like him...
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Kennedy McEwen - 16 Feb 2006 21:18 GMT >> >> Good: >> >> Noise is exceptional. I estimate I get similar noise at ISO 1600 as I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >yeah, there's grain there, but I'm calling you on your claim that the Canon >1600 iso is equivalent to Velvia 50's grain. That's a load of nonsense. I use Velvia as well, and have done regularly for years, so I am pretty sure of my statement too - and my estimate is based on scanning 35mm Velvia on an LS-4000. BTW, I didn't say it was "equivalent", I said it was similar, and it is. It has a different spatial characteristic, naturally, but the amplitude is pretty similar to what I have seen shooting at ISO 1600 on the 5D.
The largest prints I ever made from Velvia 35mmscans were about 20x16", beyond which grain was very clearly visible, particularly in uniform areas like sky etc. I recently made some 33x22" prints from the Canon 5D at ISO-400 which show no visible noise whatsoever. There is no way that I would ever take 35mm Velvia up to that size for close viewing without grain being objectionable. At ISO 1600, the noise looks similar to Velvia at a 20 x 16" print size.
Roger's independent and quantitative comparison suggests that subjective assessment is not as wide of the mark as your claim of "nonsense" is. Indeed it shows that the grain in Velvia at some densities is worse than the noise from the Canon 1D-II, whilst at others it is better.
>Though there is grain in velvia, it's among the finest of any slide film and >is finer than any negative film except for a few technical films, and those >are black and white films. I agree with that - and, together with its resolution, is one of the reasons I use it.
> To claim that Canon's noise at ISO 1600 is lower >than every negative film produced today (except those tech films), is pure >poppycock. You should keep your claims to a more realistic level. I haven't claimed it is lower, do I need to tell you a million times to stop exaggerating!
> If you'd >said ISO 200, I wouldn't be here calling you on it. If it only was similar at ISO200 I would have said so. The noise on the 5D is almost imperceptible at ISO200 on typical shutter speeds, and consequently is far lower than the grain contrast on Velvia.
>And I've heard Roger Clark make other specious claims as well--just because >he drew up a chart doesn't mean a thing, other than he drew up a chart. The issue is not that he "drew up" a chart, but that he tabulated the data collected in a systematic manner which provided objective confirmation of my own independent subjective assessment.
>Finally, if it really is better at ISO 1600 (or even 800, or 400), why isn't >Canon all over the map with such a claim? Really, that's quite a >significant feat. Only if you think it is. I could also ask why Canon aren't "all over the map" with a claim of being better than Velvia at ISO 200, or 400. It isn't quite as big an issue as you think.
 Signature Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed. Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
Simon Stanmore - 13 Feb 2006 23:40 GMT Rice, every one of the questions you ask suggests you're going OTT by considering a 5D. If money's no issue then go for it and be happy. If not, then don't worry, a 5D won't get you any better photo's than a 20D, D70, any other decent DSLR -- Simon http://www.pbase.com/stanmore
RiceHigh - 14 Feb 2006 06:52 GMT Hi,
Sorry, what's meant by "OTT"?
arcade@wizmail.net - 14 Feb 2006 20:11 GMT > Hi, > > Sorry, what's meant by "OTT"? "Over The Top" I believe.
For what you're looking to use it for, you don't necessarily need a 5D and would be fine with any SLR and save the money.
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