hi
this are my first photos which i send to photolab to print it. and
after recived i am supriced becouse color are difrent. My monitor is
allrigth after calibraiting. I have setup with Adobe RGB profile in my
camera 10D and in photoshop.
should i use color profil from photolab or some other??
what are you thinking about this photos:
http://www.photo.3style.tv/test/
should i made some more editing in photoshop? how make the best results
for photolab printing??
many thanks
Pablo
bmoag - 04 Feb 2006 17:01 GMT
Unless you work closely with a third party printer all your calibration is,
sadly, for naught.
The best a distant and reliable third party printer can do is arbitrarily
find a neutral gray in the image (or some analagous landmark) as a reference
point for their own color managed printing system.
If your printing service does not even bother to do that you need a new
printing service.
Better: learn to print your own using color management.
Paul Furman - 04 Feb 2006 17:11 GMT
> hi
> this are my first photos which i send to photolab to print it. and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> should i made some more editing in photoshop? how make the best results
> for photolab printing??
You will have to ask the lab. It's likely that they can't handle Adobe
RGB and/or they are allowing further automatic adjustments.
C J Southern - 04 Feb 2006 21:39 GMT
Pablo,
Adobe RGB and sRGB (the "Default") are what are termed "device dependant"
profiles - the results you get depend on the device that generate them (as
opposed to CIE LAB which is device independant). Perhaps a good analogy
would be with map directions that say "take 20 paces to the north, then 45
paces east - then start digging" - where you end up depends totally on how
long your paces are. Same with RGB - it defines how much R G and B to
use, but doesn't define just what shade the Reds, Greens, and Blues are.
Correct colour management attaches profiles to your RGB data that
effectively says "when the map maker took a pace it was 3 feet long - so if
your pace is longer then it knows to tell you to take less paces".
In your case it's most likely that you're feeding the lab Adobe RGB, but
they're treating it as sRGB - which means that everything will look a LOT
darker. If that's not the case, then we've definately got a more serious
colour management issue. Try sending them a small sample in sRGB - also
check with them as to what colourspaces they can handle. See also if they
can hadle a file that's in LAB colour - if they can, and it's still wrong
then you've most likely still got a monitor calibration issue.
You said that your monitor has been calibrated - was this with a
Colorimeter, or just using AdobeGamma?
Cheers,
Colin
PS: If you're keen, pick up a copy of "Real World Color Management" 2nd
Edition - it's the current definitive text on the subject.
Jeremy Nixon - 04 Feb 2006 23:01 GMT
> should i use color profil from photolab or some other??
It depends on the lab. Many don't handle color profiles at all, so you
must convert to sRGB to send the pictures to them. You need to find out
how the particular lab works.

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Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Pablo 3style - 05 Feb 2006 01:06 GMT
hi all
thanks for all answers - they help me !!
after calls to lab and asking - they told me that i should use kolor
profile for Kodak endura paper.
I've got this profile from internet and i try to use it with next
photos.
i was reading a lot about color profile and i think i know a liitle
more ;))
many thanks !!!
and mayby - what are you thinking about my photos? are they technical
corect???
thanks
Pablo
C J Southern - 05 Feb 2006 02:59 GMT
> after calls to lab and asking - they told me that i should use kolor
> profile for Kodak endura paper.
> I've got this profile from internet and i try to use it with next
> photos.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
Jeremy Nixon - 05 Feb 2006 05:16 GMT
> after calls to lab and asking - they told me that i should use kolor
> profile for Kodak endura paper.
> I've got this profile from internet and i try to use it with next
> photos.
No... that's not how that works. An output profile would be used for
soft-proofing, where you can preview on your screen what the printed
output will look like. You don't convert to the output profile. The
thing you need to know is how they handle color profiles in files you
send them; my bet is that they assume sRGB and don't handle other
profiles at all, because if they answered your question by pointing
you to the paper output profile, it doesn't sound like they have much
knowledge of a color-managed workflow.
So you should probably convert your files to sRGB before sending them.

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Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Stacey - 05 Feb 2006 02:08 GMT
> hi
> this are my first photos which i send to photolab to print it. and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> should i use color profil from photolab or some other??
The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
photoshop. My guess about the problem is they are expecting the file in
sRGB and their software doesn't do a conversion from aRGB to sRGB if you
send them aRGB files.
DON'T convert the file to their printer profile before you send it to them!
That isn't what the profile is for. 99% of their customers don't know what
a profile is, don't own photoshop and use an sRGB P&S that doesn't tag the
files, that's what they expect. You threw them a curve ball with the aRGB
files. You can use their profile to soft proof and mainly to look for out
of gamut colors in your files and correct them before you send the sRGB
file.
> what are you thinking about this photos:
>
> http://www.photo.3style.tv/test/
Cool shots.

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Stacey
Pablo 3style - 05 Feb 2006 17:25 GMT
>> The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
>> photoshop. My guess about the problem is they are expecting the file in
>> sRGB and their software doesn't do a conversion from aRGB to sRGB if you
>> send them aRGB files.
thanks
thise profile which i found on lab web site is profile for kodak endura
papar
know i understand that is only for preview.
>> You threw them a curve ball with the aRGB
>> files. You can use their profile to soft proof and mainly to look for out
>> of gamut colors in your files and correct them before you send the sRGB
>> file.
but if i using AdobeRGB profil on my 10D - can i send him in aRGB? or
always i should convert to sRGB??
John McWilliams - 05 Feb 2006 17:31 GMT
>>>The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
>>>photoshop. My guess about the problem is they are expecting the file in
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> but if i using AdobeRGB profil on my 10D - can i send him in aRGB? or
> always i should convert to sRGB??
Yes. Unless reading info on their website indicates otherwise, which I
doubt. What's the name of the lab?
--
John McWilliams
Pablo 3style - 05 Feb 2006 17:34 GMT
it is www.bonusprint.co.uk
Pablo 3style
www.wind3style.pl
John McWilliams - 05 Feb 2006 18:43 GMT
> it is www.bonusprint.co.uk
>
> Pablo 3style
> www.wind3style.pl
Hmmm. Went there, d/loaded the Acrobat file, skimmed it, and found it
not helpful. The site isn't clear enough about color space, so until you
learn differently, stick with sRGB.

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John McWilliams
Stacey - 06 Feb 2006 04:46 GMT
>>> The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
>>> photoshop. My guess about the problem is they are expecting the file in
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> but if i using AdobeRGB profil on my 10D - can i send him in aRGB? or
> always i should convert to sRGB??
Find out what they expect the file to be. Many want sRGB so you should
convert your files to sRGB before you send them. You'll want to check for
out of gamut colors both in sRGB and their profile (see photoshop help file
on how to do this) and decide how best to bring these out of gamut colors
within the other color space without ruining the look of the image.
Also you should ALWAYS convert to sRGB before posting images to a web site.
All that said, you might want to shoot/develop the RAW files to sRGB to
avoid all these problems.

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Stacey
C J Southern - 06 Feb 2006 09:02 GMT
> All that said, you might want to shoot/develop the RAW files to sRGB to
> avoid all these problems.
Or find a "lab" that can handle aRGB.
zeitgeist - 10 Feb 2006 09:16 GMT
> this are my first photos which i send to photolab to print it. and
> after recived i am supriced becouse color are difrent. My monitor is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> should i made some more editing in photoshop? how make the best results
> for photolab printing??
what are you doing now to fix your images?
are you setting levels your self or using auto levels? you can learn to set
your own white and black points.
you can burn and dodge your images, you can render one for the highlights, a
second for the shadow areas, layer them and erase or mask this area and that
for the best of both sides.
but if you are having problems with a local printer, tell them to turn off
any auto exposure or color and contrast adjustments they may do to 'help'
you. the average consumer just takes the chip out of the camera and puts
into the minilab's terminal. Have you ever seen their histograms? a hump
in the middle with nothing at either end, no wonder the amatuer labs
automatically add contrast. If I forget to tell the clerk at the lab to
turn it off I get something back that looks fried, if they turn it off I get
just what I want.