Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / February 2006
chimping
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Matt Clara - 22 Jan 2006 13:01 GMT It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who do so with the simple and amusing actions of a chimpanzee. Apparently the idea is that a "real" photographer would _know_ what they've got on the LCD without even looking, so only amateurs look. Yet, I'm not quite sure why. Take wedding photographers, for instance. They often have to shoot in lighting that changes, from room to room, shooting towards a light and then away from it, closeup to environmental, indoor to out. While reviewing every image would be a waste of time, reviewing the first few images in a new lighting situation only makes too much sense. I shoot weddings (only three or four a year), and I use a D70 for the PJ parts, and I happily chimp away, content in the knowledge that the images I'm making will all be of a useful quality. If you're a landscape photographer, well, I'm not sure what you're using a dslr for, many use medium and large-format for that, but you would be working slowly, with a tripod, and why _not_ look at your pics on the lcd? Sure, things won't change much from shot to shot, but it can help you really see what you're getting, perhaps leading to better composition.
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 22 Jan 2006 13:33 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing > shots as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > help you really see what you're getting, perhaps leading to better > composition. The hell with that! The D2x and D200 have such good displays it encourages you to chimp. I say chimping should be an Olympic sport.
Rita
Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 18:36 GMT > The hell with that! The D2x and D200 have such good displays it encourages > you to chimp. I believe this is the first time I've ever agreed with you.
> I say chimping should be an Olympic sport. I guess the agreement streak is over.
Cheers, Alan
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Bronek Kozicki - 22 Jan 2006 14:17 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots > as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who > do so with the simple and amusing actions of a chimpanzee. Apparently the > idea is that a "real" photographer would _know_ what they've got on the LCD Well, maybe "real" photographers do not check the histogram, but I do, especially in poor lighting or contrasty situation. And how can you tell if I review the photo, or check the histogram?
B.
John A. Stovall - 22 Jan 2006 16:01 GMT >> It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots >> as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >especially in poor lighting or contrasty situation. And how can you tell >if I review the photo, or check the histogram? Just like we did with film by learning how to expose for all kinds of lighting conditions and using a light meter.
Besides the camera histogram is from my experience not that useful as it's based on the JPEG not the actual sensor data.
Compare the camera histogram to the one in ACR using ProPhoto RGB and 16 bits for you color space and you'll see how useless it is.
**********************************************************
"A combat photographer should be able to make you see the color of blood in black and white"
David Douglas Duncan Speaking on why in Vietnam he worked only in black and white http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 18:39 GMT John A. Stovall
> Compare the camera histogram to the one in ACR using ProPhoto RGB and > 16 bits for you color space and you'll see how useless it is. Tripe. The usefulness of a tool comes from understanding what it can and cannot do. A histogram may not be perfect, but it certainly is useful in avoiding saturation as well as avoiding underuse of the sensor dynamics.
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Randall Ainsworth - 22 Jan 2006 15:20 GMT I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it.
Wm H - 22 Jan 2006 16:08 GMT > I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the > LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. Or maybe you couldn't care less??
Bob - 22 Jan 2006 19:18 GMT >> I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >> LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. > > Or maybe you couldn't care less?? You're wasting your breath. Randall has brains he has never used.
Bob
Floyd Davidson - 22 Jan 2006 16:29 GMT >I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. A crutch, you don't seem to have noticed, is a very useful tool. It is expedient.
LCD's and histograms are both expedient too, and only a fool would ignore the best tools available.
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John A. Stovall - 22 Jan 2006 18:02 GMT >>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >LCD's and histograms are both expedient too, and only a fool >would ignore the best tools available. But neither is the best tool. The in camera histogram provides little information compared to the actual raw histogram in ACR.
As for the LCD, didn't you see and compose the shot in the view finder? Or do you just machine gun shoot?
I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a histogram.
**********************************************************
"A combat photographer should be able to make you see the color of blood in black and white"
David Douglas Duncan Speaking on why in Vietnam he worked only in black and white http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
Floyd Davidson - 22 Jan 2006 18:48 GMT >>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >But neither is the best tool. The in camera histogram provides little >information compared to the actual raw histogram in ACR. Neither is the "best tool"? For what? I don't have "ACR", whatever that is, and I'm hard pressed to see how a histogram provided by the camera can be compared to a histogram generated with downline processing software.
>As for the LCD, didn't you see and compose the shot in the view >finder? Or do you just machine gun shoot? That doesn't make sense. What are you talking about?
The LCD on *my* camera provides a display of the histogram, and also provides an indication of over exposed areas of the image.
These do just happen to be the best tools available for making those determinations between each exposure.
>I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a >histogram. I wonder what makes you think Ansel Adams did *not* use the modern technology that was available to him at the time, or would not be doing exactly that today if he were living now?
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
G.T. - 22 Jan 2006 20:03 GMT >>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But neither is the best tool. The in camera histogram provides little > information compared to the actual raw histogram in ACR. Last I checked I couldn't install ACR on my camera.
> As for the LCD, didn't you see and compose the shot in the view > finder? Or do you just machine gun shoot? > > I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a > histogram. Experience and intuition. But having a good eye is the most important thing so why not take advantage of all the available tools to best record what the eye sees?
Greg
 Signature "All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
John A. Stovall - 22 Jan 2006 20:07 GMT >>>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Last I checked I couldn't install ACR on my camera. You need the histogram when processing the image not in the camera.
>> As for the LCD, didn't you see and compose the shot in the view >> finder? Or do you just machine gun shoot? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >thing so why not take advantage of all the available tools to best >record what the eye sees? Because, people like you keep look for tools rather than developing the eye.
**********************************************************
"A combat photographer should be able to make you see the color of blood in black and white"
David Douglas Duncan Speaking on why in Vietnam he worked only in black and white http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
G.T. - 22 Jan 2006 20:42 GMT > Because, people like you keep look for tools rather than developing > the eye. There's a big difference between using tools that exist and looking for tools.
Greg
 Signature "All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
Floyd Davidson - 22 Jan 2006 21:02 GMT >> Because, people like you keep look for tools rather than >> developing >> the eye. > >There's a big difference between using tools that exist and looking for >tools. And there is *nothing* wrong with inventing better tools either!
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
Floyd Davidson - 22 Jan 2006 21:01 GMT >You need the histogram when processing the image not in the camera. Come come now, that statement is absurd.
>>> I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a >>> histogram. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Because, people like you keep look for tools rather than developing >the eye. You have no way to know whether he has developed a *far* better "eye" than you have. Or just how good he is at utilizing tools either.
Gratuitious absurdities suggest...
 Signature Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com
Brian - 23 Jan 2006 04:59 GMT >>>>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > he worked only in black and white > http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/ What is wrong with the people in this NG? Why is everyone attacking someone who does not happen to use "their" methods? If someone can do things from experience while another achieves the same results using a histogram - so what? It is the result that counts, and how much satisfaction the person had achieving it. If the photos are merely personal, then how much fun the person had achieving the result.
It is good to swap ideas and throw 'suggestions' at one another, but why attack one another? If you don't agree with someone else's methods, put forward yours, but don't rubbish theirs.
Brian.
Steve Wolfe - 23 Jan 2006 05:31 GMT > What is wrong with the people in this NG? Why is everyone attacking > someone who does not happen to use "their" methods? Isn't that what you're SUPPOSED to do on usenet?
;-)
steve
Jer - 23 Jan 2006 05:42 GMT >>>>>> I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not >>>>>> using the [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Brian. Because there are people in the ng that are not only vain and arrogant enough to believe their methods are the only methods worth learning, they're also dumb enough to come in here and actually admit it in public. A legend in their own mind. Prima Donna. Why they're allowed to breed is beyond comprehension.
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Rich - 23 Jan 2006 04:34 GMT >>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a >histogram. Or autofocus L lenses? -Rich
>********************************************************** > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > he worked only in black and white > http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/ Brian - 23 Jan 2006 04:52 GMT >>>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I just wonder how Ansel Adams ever got by with out and LCD and a > histogram. What has Ansel Adams to do with anything? You can't pick on a one in a billion person and use them as a reference. The majority of photographers are not Ansel Adams, and never will be. So they need some kind of assistance that Ansel didn't.
On top of that, who is to say that Ansel Adams wouldn't have had a higher strike rate with perfect images using the technology we are fortunate enough to have today? No-one gets a perfect shot every time (in terms of focus and exposure), but you get a lot more of them now with modern digital equipment!
Your comment is like me trying to tell you that you don't need a car today? Gee, I wonder how King Arthur ever got by without a car? He used the most modern technology of the time; a horse! It doesn't mean then that no-one needs a car today.
Brian.
Steve Wolfe - 23 Jan 2006 05:09 GMT > What has Ansel Adams to do with anything? You can't pick on a one in a > billion person and use them as a reference. The majority of photographers > are not Ansel Adams, and never will be. So they need some kind of > assistance that Ansel didn't. I think that the reason pick out Ansel (at least it's why *I* do) is because he was such a devotee of the craft - and because he also looked at things from a personal perspective. While we'll never be Ansel Adams, aspiring to his love of the craft is something we should all do.
Of course, that's not to say that Ansel wouldn't use a histogram. From his practicality, willingness to use any tool useful to the situation, and his own comments before his death about looking forward to seeing what the digital era had to offer, I don't think that he would simply write off the histogram or other information on the LCD on principle, as some seem to do. His photography doesn't seem like it was overshadowed by a phobic ego, but was rather driven by a desire to make the best photo he could.
steve
Brian - 23 Jan 2006 05:21 GMT >>What has Ansel Adams to do with anything? You can't pick on a one in a >>billion person and use them as a reference. The majority of photographers [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > steve Terrific response, Steve. Thank you.
Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 18:34 GMT > I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the > LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. Slide shooters often bracket when lighting is tough. That's a crutch too. And has saved many a pro's photogs mortgage payments.
If you don't understand histograms, then you'd be well advised to learn how they can be used.
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David Dyer-Bennet - 22 Jan 2006 19:40 GMT > I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the > LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. What's wrong with a crutch?
And why is an LCD unacceptable but Polaroid backs were acceptable, even (especially) for studio photographers who could take their time and were in complete control of every aspect of the lighting?
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Brian - 23 Jan 2006 05:01 GMT >>I could care less about histograms, but as long as you're not using the >>LCD as a crutch, I see no problem with using it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even (especially) for studio photographers who could take their time > and were in complete control of every aspect of the lighting? Very good point David!
Frank ess - 22 Jan 2006 16:32 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing > shots as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > help you really see what you're getting, perhaps leading to better > composition. I think you protest too much.
The hook in original uses of "chimping" was the "Ooh ooh ooh!" sounds of early P&S adopters uninhibitedly enjoying and sharing enjoyment of the magick in instant reinforcement.
Calling what a "real" photographer does "chimping" is less a derogatory or disparaging reference than a fond adoption of a convenient tag, for lack of a better term.
If by your rant you hoped to set yourself apart from the "chimping masses", too late; usage and evolution have done it for you. Relax and try to catch up.
 Signature Frank ess "You know my method, Watson. It is founded upon the observation of trifles." —Sherlock Holmes—
Matt Clara - 22 Jan 2006 17:24 GMT >> It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing >> shots as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > masses", too late; usage and evolution have done it for you. Relax and try > to catch up. If it's a rant, it's not much of a rant.
 Signature Regards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com
Brian - 23 Jan 2006 05:14 GMT >> It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing >> shots as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > masses", too late; usage and evolution have done it for you. Relax and > try to catch up. This term chimping is quite pathetic really. What is so bad about people marveling over modern technology? To be able to take an image and see it straight afterwards is a fantastic thing. It is also a great quick check (to a certain extent) that a critical image did turn out.
Being able to see the image "before" you take it would be even better, as with the p&s cameras. This topic is discussed in another thread and obviously people have different opinions on it.
This term chimping seems to me to be a fear the pro photographers have at the moment. They are scared that the everyday snapshooters might suddenly start taking shots as well as they do. This could happen for a couple of reasons: firstly, the snapshooter takes a crap image (normally it would have been discovered later at print time), and now re-takes the shot - changing some settings in the camera to try and improve the shot. After some experimenting they achieve a winner. Secondly, the snapshooter, from an instant result, learns to figure things out FAR quicker than the pro did going to university and/or reading countless books and wasting 100's of rolls of film. Anyone with a keen interest and half a brain can learn which situations are fooling their camera and how to compensate for it. This is what scares the pros!
Enough said, all I have done the last 2 days is rant in here. I came in here (new to the NG) as a keen photographer who loves to learn and share ideas, and see what everyone was discussing. I really expected to see fun and interesting conversations, and there are plenty of those, but I am amazed at all the competitiveness and arrogance. My ranting is a result of some of the snobbery, bs and up-them-self people of this NG (I am only referring to a small minority in here). Grow up and start helping one another, not trying to out-do one another!
Steve Wolfe - 23 Jan 2006 05:31 GMT > This term chimping is quite pathetic really. What is so bad about people > marveling over modern technology? To be able to take an image and see it > straight afterwards is a fantastic thing. Noooooo... the term goes waaaaaay back. Don't you recall the large-format folks scoffing at each other for using a polaroid before making a final exposure? The dancing, finger-pointing, and "oooh-oooh-oooh!' mocking?
(Yes, that was entirely tongue-in-cheek.)
> This term chimping seems to me to be a fear the pro photographers have at > the moment. They are scared that the everyday snapshooters might suddenly > start taking shots as well as they do. I don't think it's fear, I think it's just that some people like to look down on other people - ESPECIALLY if they're insecure about themselves, be it consciously or not. And if they do fear that the snapshooting masses (or even someone like me) will start taking images as good as they do on a regular basis, then their fear is entirely unfounded.
steve
G.T. - 22 Jan 2006 18:19 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots > as he/she takes them. Well, it's mostly photojournalists and sports photographers who disparage colleagues for chimping. If they're looking at the LCD they're missing shots.
Greg
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Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 18:30 GMT > Well, it's mostly photojournalists and sports photographers who > disparage colleagues for chimping. If they're looking at the LCD > they're missing shots. Yet everytime I see PJ's and sports shooters gathered, they're chimping like mad...
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Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 18:28 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots > as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the lcd? Sure, things won't change much from shot to shot, but it can help > you really see what you're getting, perhaps leading to better composition. I don't see anything wrong with the practice and especially combined with checking the histogram, it can lead to improvement in exposure, flash direction and power as well as composition. Since I usually shoot manual exposure, I'll chimp the first few frames and fine tune the exposure for a given light and then ignore the LCD for the rest of the sequence.
In some lighting I used to bracket, esp. slide film. Now, with digital, I chimp a few frames and don't bracket (except as the different exposure might be interesting).
Film die-hards may see it as amateurish, but pre-metering, die-hards probably thought meters were for wimps too. And how many pros bracket slide film in difficult lighting situations? All of them that sell.
How many pros use auto focus? A great number of them. Used to be considered wimpish, now it's essential for many sports shooters.
In the studio, when using a lot of lights, props, gobos, and so on, it is indispensible in picking up lighting errors or ways to enhance the image. And of course, before committing film in the studio it's much better than polaroid.
Watch sports shooters and PJs. They are as chimpish as the most naïve amateur.
At a luncheon speech by the US Ambassador to Canada in Montreal a couple months ago, at which I was a guest, there were several photogs from the various newspapers. All were chimping away merrily and making adjustments and shooting again.
Nothing "wrong" with it at all if it improves the end result. For amateurs it just helps learn faster, although it does change the thought process.
Just be happy that you're shooting digital with a wealth of film exposure experience to back it up.
Cheers, Alan.
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JPS@no.komm - 23 Jan 2006 16:00 GMT >Nothing "wrong" with it at all if it improves the end result. For >amateurs it just helps learn faster, although it does change the thought >process. It's good feedback if you understand the limitations, but an under-exposed or soft image may look OK in the LCD, so if it looks OK it still may not be (except as a thumbnail). Most LCDs I've used need to be tilted a little bit to have a realistic DR; straight-on, as midtones through highlights are compressed into the LCD's highlights, and don't really separate until you tilt the LCD so that it is a little darker looking.
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><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< John McWilliams - 27 Jan 2006 02:07 GMT >>Nothing "wrong" with it at all if it improves the end result. For >>amateurs it just helps learn faster, although it does change the thought [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > really separate until you tilt the LCD so that it is a little darker > looking. Amen. I've had too many shots that look ok to great on the LCD but turn out to be poorly focussed or exposed. Or both. I try to concentrate on the histogram, and that works outside, but I am crap with it using flash.
 Signature John McWilliams
Benny - 25 Jan 2006 03:42 GMT >At a luncheon speech by the US Ambassador to Canada in Montreal a couple >months ago, at which I was a guest, there were several photogs from the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Cheers, >Alan. Right...I am a news cameraman shooting for national network..I too was once covering a luncheon speech and here is the scene.. Speech is sheduled to take 1/2 hour... Three pressphotogs set remote flashes in front of the podium...Speech starts...Photogs start shooting bursts of 3-5 shots...chimping “merrily”..another barrage of bursts,all with flash...moore “merry” chimping..this goes on the WHOLE 1/2 hour.. We are talking about one person speaking, what can you learn and improve taking hundred shots of one person speaking...I still remember the film days when they came an took 3-5 shots and went away or stayed for free lunch.. Needles to say that the newsfootage was allmost useless because of the constant flashing... Cheers Benny
David Dyer-Bennet - 22 Jan 2006 19:38 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots > as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who > do so with the simple and amusing actions of a chimpanzee. Apparently the > idea is that a "real" photographer would _know_ what they've got on the LCD > without even looking, so only amateurs look. Yet, I'm not quite sure why. It's because lots and lots of people are idiots.
Consider the 1970s studio advertising photographer. He and his crew would build sets, bring in the products, light them, set up the 4x5 (or even larger) view cameras -- and then shoot lots and lots of Polaroid film to fine-tune the lighting and exposure and set and framing. I read of some of them even then shooting crhomes and sending it to a super-fast pro-lab to get it back in time to check *that* before striking the set.
And yet idiots criticize digital photographers for checking the LCD.
Ignore them.
In another direction, consider the classic Life magazine photographers, or National Geographic. They were expected to send in well over 10 times the amount of film that was actually printed in the magazine -- often people sent in more like 50, or 100 times as many pictures as were used in the magazine.
And yet idiots criticize digital photographers for shooting too much.
Ignore them.
And keep careful track of what you're doing. Are you shooting the same thing over and over, or are you working systematically to catch a particular shot, making meaningful variations in hopes of getting it? Are you relying on luck only as an absolutely last resort, when you've already controlled everything you *can* control and you still can't reliably get the picture you want? Or are you in fact blazing away at random and just hoping to get lucky?
Because there's a core of truth to the idiot's objections; some photographers *are*, for whatever reason, behaving stupidly, in the sense of not doing things the ways most likely to get them the pictures they want.
You just can't tell which are which by what kind of equipment they use or how many pictures they take.
Apologies to anybody who thinks I've called them an idiot; most especially to people who agree with the above, but have become so frustrated at seeing people shooting stupidly that their frustration pushed them into intemperate statements about condemning whole classes of photographers.
 Signature David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/> RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/> Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/> Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
G.T. - 22 Jan 2006 19:59 GMT > And yet idiots criticize digital photographers for checking the LCD. > > Ignore them. No one is talking about checking the LCD for proper exposure. They're talking about people constantly checking their results and wasting their time saying or thinking "oooo ooooo, look at that pretty picture, ooooo aaaaaa".
> In another direction, consider the classic Life magazine > photographers, or National Geographic. They were expected to send in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ignore them. No it's more like 1000 times now. There have been many interesting articles written about digital photography isn't scalable. When one takes too many pictures they simply become unmanageable no matter how good one's workflow is.
Greg
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Slack™ - 23 Jan 2006 05:44 GMT >> In another direction, consider the classic Life magazine >> photographers, or National Geographic. They were expected to send in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Greg So true. I'm trying to pretend I'm shooting film, as much as possible, and focusing in on making every shot count. I'm might miss some shots, but I think in long run it will make me a better photographer. It's just too easy to blow through 200, 400, 500 pictures and not be too concerned with technique... plus, I inevitably get a lower keeper % anyway. _____ Slack
Alan Browne - 22 Jan 2006 21:39 GMT > In another direction, consider the classic Life magazine > photographers, or National Geographic. They were expected to send in > well over 10 times the amount of film that was actually printed in the > magazine -- often people sent in more like 50, or 100 times as many > pictures as were used in the magazine. Nat Geo: 29,000 images (average) per article (800 rolls). 2000:1. But that's not to say the that "all" of the unused were rejects, they just weren't used. Many went on to be used in other projects and if I recall sold to other organizations for various uses.
> Apologies to anybody who thinks I've called them an idiot; most > especially to people who agree with the above, but have become so > frustrated at seeing people shooting stupidly that their frustration > pushed them into intemperate statements about condemning whole classes > of photographers. Any new technology breeds new ways to use the technology. What counts is what's effective. My SO and I just went for a walk in the woods. She stopped to shoot something and was having a mind blank about metering snow(shooting film). With a digital, whatever error she made would have been quickly seen.
I meter like I do with film, but then for the first few frames chimp and tune before carrying on.
Cheers, Alan
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Rich - 23 Jan 2006 04:33 GMT >It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots >as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who >do so with the simple and amusing actions of a chimpanzee. Apparently the >idea is that a "real" photographer would _know_ what they've got on the LCD >without even looking, so only amateurs look. Yet, I'm not quite sure why. And yet, the LCDs on the back of DSLRs get bigger and bigger, with higher resolution. Too bad they are never used by the "pros" on this group. Ha ha ha. -Rich
Brian - 23 Jan 2006 05:26 GMT >>It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots >>as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those who [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -Rich > I wonder how many are really pros? Pro only means they make money taking photographs, it doesn't mean they take good photographs! Someone who has no desire to pursue photography as a 'career' may take the best photos in the world. Who is the real pro, the money maker or the great picture taker?
:-) Toby - 24 Jan 2006 02:15 GMT > It seems that people disparage against a dslr photographer reviewing shots > as he/she takes them. They call it "chimping", I guess to compare those [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > change much from shot to shot, but it can help you really see what you're > getting, perhaps leading to better composition. As the Nobel-prize winning physicist Richard Feynman said, "Why do you care about what other people think?"
Any tool or action that gives you information that you need or can use that doesn't hinder your getting the shot is to your advantage. If you are in a tight situation in which opportunities are lost while you are reviewing your shots then you need to know enough about your camera and your technique to be able to forgo reviews, otherwise why the hell not?
Toby
imodan@tpg.com.au - 24 Jan 2006 03:57 GMT Have you read Richard Gleick's book "Genius'?
Fascinating stuff...
Toby - 25 Jan 2006 05:08 GMT Thanks, I'll check it out.
Toby
> Have you read Richard Gleick's book "Genius'? > > Fascinating stuff... Patrick L - 24 Jan 2006 06:22 GMT Gotta chimp, man, I'm getting paid to get it right, so I'm using every tool I have available to give my clients the best I can give.
I chimp, but I don't make the monkey noises. I might shriek, occasionally.
Patrick
Toby - 25 Jan 2006 05:09 GMT > Gotta chimp, man, I'm getting paid to get it right, so I'm using every > tool I have available to give my clients the best I can give. > > I chimp, but I don't make the monkey noises. I might shriek, > occasionally. Isn't it absurd? Chimping....someone has a big ego problem...I suppose all those pros in film days using Polariod backs for test shots were chimping too...
Toby
G.T. - 25 Jan 2006 06:41 GMT >>Gotta chimp, man, I'm getting paid to get it right, so I'm using every >>tool I have available to give my clients the best I can give. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > those pros in film days using Polariod backs for test shots were chimping > too... You clearly don't know what chimping is.
Greg
 Signature "All my time I spent in heaven Revelries of dance and wine Waking to the sound of laughter Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
Nameless - 27 Jan 2006 03:56 GMT How about remote chimping.
My sister used to approve all the photos that my brother in law used to take of her.
Have a good day.
I sign myself Nameless to maintain good family relations.
bozo - 05 Feb 2006 02:33 GMT I thought they called it chimping because I scratched my head and then my tail every time after I did it - who knew?
> Gotta chimp, man, I'm getting paid to get it right, so I'm using every > tool I have available to give my clients the best I can give. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Patrick Rich - 05 Feb 2006 19:42 GMT >I thought they called it chimping because I scratched my head and then my >tail every time after I did it - who knew? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Patrick What did pros call "autofocus" before they got over their prejudices and adopted it en masse? -Rich
Steven Wandy - 06 Feb 2006 14:42 GMT > What did pros call "autofocus" before they got over their prejudices > and adopted it en masse? > -Rich A "crutch".
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