Nikon SB600 - Underexposed when using as slave to D70s

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Geoff - 27 Dec 2005 16:41 GMT

I've just got myself a SB600 flash to go with my Nikon D70s. The SB600
works fine normally, but I'm having problems when using it off-camera as
a slave to the D70s. I've gone through the settings many times,
researched the 'Net and read through all the various tips in both the
SB600 and D70s manuals, but I can't find the problem.

The problem is that the result is a very underexposed picture. Both
flashes fire but it looks quite dim to the eye, which is backed up
firstly by the underexposed picture and also by the fact that the SB600
recharges instantly. It's as if the flash is firing at it's minimum
setting for some reason. I've tried putting the flash in various
locations, always pointing away from the camera lens so the pre-flashes
don't mess things up, but I never get a good result. I've tried at
various aperture settings too.

I'm using a CPU lens (the 18-70mm that came with my camera). I've tried
the camera set to both A and P. Metering is set to matrix, D70s flash
mode set to Commander-TTL. I have tried Commander Mode-Manual, at full
power just to see what happens, and the flash fires properly with a very
overexposed picture. The SB600 is set to Wireless channel 3, group A,
and I've tried resetting it in case I have some other weird setting in
there somehow. I don't have any exposure compensation set on either the
flash or the camera.

There is just one slight clue to the problem, which is that the 'analog
exposure display' in the viewvinder shows the maximum underexposure, but
isn't that to be expected seeing as it isn't taking into account the
slave flash? So I'm sure it's nothing. In fact I think it only shows
that in A mode, not P, and I have the same problem in both modes.

It's hard to see that there is a fault because it all works fine when
the flash is on the camera. So the matrix metering must be working, the
flash works ok otherwise, and the flash is picking-up what setting to
use from the camera because it flashes properly in slave/manual mode. So
am I missing something painfully obvious?

Thanks for any help,
Geoff.

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Jack Dale - 27 Dec 2005 19:11 GMT

>I've just got myself a SB600 flash to go with my Nikon D70s. The SB600
>works fine normally, but I'm having problems when using it off-camera as
>a slave to the D70s. I've gone through the settings many times,
>researched the 'Net and read through all the various tips in both the
>SB600 and D70s manuals, but I can't find the problem.

SNIP

>Thanks for any help,
>Geoff.

Have you tried Ken Rockwell's instructions? They work for me.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/ittlslave.htm#d70

Jack

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Geoff - 27 Dec 2005 20:01 GMT

>> I've just got myself a SB600 flash to go with my Nikon D70s. The SB600
>> works fine normally, but I'm having problems when using it off-camera as
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Jack

Yep I've tried that. There are so few settings even needed, so it's hard
to see where I could have gone wrong. I've been through kenrockwell's
quide more than once anyway. :(

Thanks Jack,
Geoff.

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Geoff - 27 Dec 2005 22:17 GMT

Just to add to my first post....I wonder if I'm misunderstand what the
slave is supposed to do. I've done some more experiments and the
camera's own flash barely seems to fire at all. It does enough
pre-flashes but I can't tell if it's flashing for the actual picture or
not, but if it is it certainly isn't making much difference.

I tried a shot of something not far from the camera, and I placed the
SB-600 in the space behind the subject. I imagined the SB-600 would
light up the part of the room behind the subject, and the camera's
built-in flash would light up the subject itself. Is that not what's
supposed to happen? Well the room was lit up but not that well, and the
subject was totally dark. How on Earth can that be right? Even an
oil-lamp would have lit the subject up more than the camera managed to.

The only way I was able to get the slave SB-600 to have much effect was
by standing it quite a way from the subject I was taking, pointing at
the ceiling bit in front of the subject. I then actually got a nicely
exposed subject and the background looked ok too! No thanks to the
built-in flash though.

Maybe I'm totally misunderstand what's supposed to be happening.

Geoff.

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Wilhelm - 27 Dec 2005 22:27 GMT

> Just to add to my first post....I wonder if I'm misunderstand what the slave
> is supposed to do. I've done some more experiments and the camera's own
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Geoff.

In the commander mode, the flash on the camera signals the slave to fire. It
does not add any light to the scene, however. Prove this to yourself by
turning off the SB600 and firing the flash with the camera in the commander
mode. To light the area behind the subject AND light the subject using
Commander/TTL mode, you'll need another SB600 to light the subject.

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Geoff - 27 Dec 2005 22:50 GMT

> In the commander mode, the flash on the camera signals the slave to fire. It
> does not add any light to the scene, however. Prove this to yourself by
> turning off the SB600 and firing the flash with the camera in the commander
> mode. To light the area behind the subject AND light the subject using
> Commander/TTL mode, you'll need another SB600 to light the subject.

Thanks for that, and also to Jeremy. This major detail doesn't seem to
be made particularly clear in all I've read! lol. I would think most
people would be thinking the same as me. I have all sorts of questions
going through my mind about this but for now I'll just accept that the
camera doesn't flash. A shame but at least it now makes sense. I'll mess
with it some more tomorrow and see exactly what advantage this feature
WILL give me without having to fork out more money. :)

Thanks guys,
Geoff.

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Wilhelm - 27 Dec 2005 23:53 GMT

>> In the commander mode, the flash on the camera signals the slave to fire.
>> It does not add any light to the scene, however. Prove this to yourself by
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks guys,
> Geoff.

I landed up with 2 SB800s to solve the problem you're having. Get the money
ready!

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Jeremy Nixon - 27 Dec 2005 22:29 GMT

> Just to add to my first post....I wonder if I'm misunderstand what the
> slave is supposed to do. I've done some more experiments and the
> camera's own flash barely seems to fire at all. It does enough
> pre-flashes but I can't tell if it's flashing for the actual picture or
> not, but if it is it certainly isn't making much difference.

The built-in flash is not used for the exposure.

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Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

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Mike G. - 28 Dec 2005 04:31 GMT

> I've just got myself a SB600 flash to go with my Nikon D70s. The SB600
> works fine normally, but I'm having problems when using it off-camera as
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Thanks for any help,
> Geoff.

Goeff,

A real long shot, but try fresh batteries. Also, check the LCD display
on the back of the flash after the failed shot. See if it shows an
underexposure (negative EV displayed).

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Ken Palmateer - 29 Dec 2005 03:01 GMT

>> I've just got myself a SB600 flash to go with my Nikon D70s. The SB600
>> works fine normally, but I'm having problems when using it off-camera as
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>> don't mess things up, but I never get a good result. I've tried at
>> various aperture settings too.

Another thing to try: Put the camera in M (manual) mode, meter the
background, put the flash in ttl (not ttl bl), and the d70 in "slow
sync" mode. ( Probably should have the camera on a tripod.) The
camera will expose for the background, the flash will handle the
subject (foreground). See what kind of exposure that gives you. Ken

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Geoff - 29 Dec 2005 16:24 GMT

> Another thing to try: Put the camera in M (manual) mode, meter the
> background, put the flash in ttl (not ttl bl), and the d70 in "slow
> sync" mode. ( Probably should have the camera on a tripod.) The
> camera will expose for the background, the flash will handle the
> subject (foreground). See what kind of exposure that gives you. Ken

Ok thanks for that Ken. I've been reading more about TTL and gaining a
better understanding of how it works, and realising that I didn't have a
clue before! So this is all a learning experience for me. I'll make a
note of your suggestion and give it a go later.

Thanks again,
Geoff.

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Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) - 29 Dec 2005 17:29 GMT

>> Another thing to try: Put the camera in M (manual) mode, meter the
>> background, put the flash in ttl (not ttl bl), and the d70 in "slow
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>clue before! So this is all a learning experience for me. I'll make a
>note of your suggestion and give it a go later.

FWIW, the D70 e-book from Thom Hogan has an extremely extensive chapter
about use of flashes. Might be something worth looking into.

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Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet2@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html

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Geoff - 29 Dec 2005 20:14 GMT

Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:

> FWIW, the D70 e-book from Thom Hogan has an extremely extensive chapter
> about use of flashes. Might be something worth looking into.

Thank you Ed, I'll look it up now.
Geoff.

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