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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2005Using Lithium Cells in Battery Grips
Hi all, On Friday I got my 20D, complete with Battery Grip. I'm aware of the probs with this model of grip, but I've checked my serial number against what's listed on the website - and mine is OK. Having said that, I charged up 6 NiMH double A cells - threw them in the grip - and had the camera power off before I even managed to take my first shot! Hmmm. Having a read of the instructions they say that ... 1. Camera may report that NiMH are not fully charged when used in the camera - this I can understand, although I would still have expected them to work. 2. The thing that's REALLY confused me is that it specifically says that Lithium cells can't be used - can anyone think of a reason why? - Since they are the same voltage as alkalines - and are supposed to last up to 7 times longer, can anyone think why they can't be used? I wouldn't have thought that the camera would have been able to tell the difference. Many thanks, CC >On Friday I got my 20D, complete with Battery Grip. I'm aware of the probs >with this model of grip, but I've checked my serial number against what's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >grip - and had the camera power off before I even managed to take my first >shot! Hmmm. Can't speak to the lithium question, but I may have an answer for the use of NiMh in battery grips. Today's high capacity NiMh appear not to conform to the IEEE dimensional specifications for AA cells. Particularly the height of the + terminal above the top of the cell is not adhered to. This can cause poor or no contact. I had this problem with the Nikon grip for the CP-5700 and it has been found in the CP-8700 grip as well. You can see my documentation of the issue at: http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/CP_5700/Nits/Cp5700_nits.html ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html Thanks for that - I've come across this before too. Although, Canon have released a new series of the grip that gets over the faults they've been having - it also includes a redesigned AA holder that looks to me like it would fix the problem - but I will have to test more. > >On Friday I got my 20D, complete with Battery Grip. I'm aware of the probs > >with this model of grip, but I've checked my serial number against what's [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at > http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >The thing that's REALLY confused me is that it specifically says that >Lithium cells can't be used - can anyone think of a reason why? - Since they >are the same voltage as alkalines NO RECHARGEABLE are truly the same voltage output as alkaline!!! RFor example, NiMH rechargeables are typically outputting 1.33v full charge, and stay at about that level as they discharge until they drop to about 1.2v. NiCads start about 1.25v and decline to 1.2v. Alkalines start at a nominal 1.5v (actual measurement 1.57v not under load) and progressively decline thru their lifetimes until discharged. The battery check circuitry can be set to expect a certain voltage, and will report when batteries output less than that voltage. I have a universal remote for my TV/stereo that does not like NiCad batteries, always reporting low batteries even with a freshly charged set, but it will take NiMH just fine. The Canon may expect a voltage higher than 8v starting voltage. As for 'why not Lithim', the different battery chemistries have internal resistance values and current flow rates. It could be that lithium just has something that is not compatible with the Canon even though the starting voltage is fine. --wilt Hi, Thanks for all that - only prob is I'm talking about Lithium, not Lithium-Iron (The lithium cells are 1.5 volt and are virtually disigned for digital cameras). The other interesting thing is that the camera battery packs are 7.2 volt (ie 6x 1.2v internal cells) - this should be the save voltage as 6x AA "individual" cells (of even higher capacity). Cheers, Colin > >The thing that's REALLY confused me is that it specifically says that > >Lithium cells can't be used - can anyone think of a reason why? - Since they [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > --wilt >only prob is I'm talking about Lithium, not >Lithium-Iron (The lithium cells are 1.5 volt and are virtually disigned for >digital cameras). I wasn't thinking lithium ion, either...I know they do not exist in the AA form factor. The lithium non-rechargeable batteries still have different chemical characteristics that translate into ***different electrical characteristics even at the same voltage*** as alkaline. I have a Bronica ETRSi medium format system and you can use alkaline or silver oxide, but NOT lithuim, according to the manufacturer!!! FWIW --Wilt FWIW I have a P&S Fuji that I've used for 3 years prior to going SLR. I started using NiMH rechargeables but I kept runing out of charge way too soon. For the past two years I've just gone with ordinary alkaline AAs. I buy a brick from Dick Smiths and a set of 4 last me hell of a lot longer than a charged set of NiMH. Yes in the long run it's more expensive but it sure beats the frustration of running out of charge at a critical moment. Toa >FWIW > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >from Dick Smiths and a set of 4 last me hell of a lot longer than a charged >set of NiMH. Which NiMH cells are you using? They vary in capacity, with the least expensive ones having the lowest capacity. (Generally, you can tell by the weight of the cells before ever looking at the rating.) The worst of what I have are labeled under the brand "Energizer" (without having an "Eveready" marking, and weigh only 0.5 Oz. These have no marking for the Amp-hour rating. My wife picked them up at the grocery store, and I have not even dared to use these. :-) The first of the CAMEDIA ones weigh in at 0.9 Oz, with a rating of 1450 mAh. Next are the more recent CAMEDIA ones, at 0.9 Oz, and 1600 mAh rating. Then, I have some with the brand "Digital", at 1.0 Oz with 1800 mAh rating. And -- I have seen (but do not yet own) a set with 2000+ mAh ratings. In part, this is because the D70 uses its own Li-ION battery style, as does my wife's current Nikon P&S camera, and what I have are quite sufficient for running the SB-800 (and the older SB-28). >Yes in the long run it's more expensive but it sure beats the frustration of >running out of charge at a critical moment. That's what a complete change or two of rechargeables is for. :-) Enjoy, DoN.  SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > Which NiMH cells are you using? They vary in capacity, with the > least expensive ones having the lowest capacity. (Generally, you can > tell by the weight of the cells before ever looking at the rating.) They're not here (I'm at work) but I've tried differing brands of differeing rates. Some at 1200, 1600 and 1800. > Then, I have some with the brand "Digital", at 1.0 Oz with 1800 > mAh rating. Yup, Digital is one of the brands I've tried. > That's what a complete change or two of rechargeables is for. :-) Yup, I always have a spare set on hand. SignatureToa #1614 DV#2, and Blondie #1617 DV#52 '86 VN750 - '89 SR250 - '86 Connie Ulysses #4328 VRA #746A Zen #204 AZVROC(h) TW#18 Scurrilous Auckland, New Zealand http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~hasl Newbie info and Newsgroup Tips to be found at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~hasl/VROClinks.htm This is the weird thing about the Canon grip. According to the instructions ... if I use 2x Canon LiOn battery packs I can expect to get up to 2000 shots - if I use 6xAA alkalines I can expect to get 60 (as in SIXTY) shots - they point out that the alkalines are for emergency use only. Apart from the fact that the alkalines won't be able to supply as high a peak current (in what is essentially a fairly low current device), I don't understand why the figures should be so low. > FWIW > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Toa >This is the weird thing about the Canon grip. According to the instructions >... if I use 2x Canon LiOn battery packs I can expect to get up to 2000 > shots - if I use 6xAA alkalines I can expect to get 60 (as in SIXTY) shots - Don't forget that 'lithium' and 'lithium ion' are two very different beasts...with 'lithium' in common in both, but a completely different chemistry. >Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >grip - and had the camera power off before I even managed to take my first >shot! Hmmm. Why are you using AA's in the grip? Why not the two BP-511's it's designed for? I've been using my grip for 6 months and don't even bother to carry the AA adapter. ******************************************************** "A nice man is a man of nasty ideas." _Introductions to History of the Reformation_ Jonathan Swift 1667-1745 > Why are you using AA's in the grip? Why not the two BP-511's it's > designed for? I've been using my grip for 6 months and don't even > bother to carry the AA adapter. I only have the 1x BP-511 that came with the camera, but I use a lot of AA rechargeables. My first thought was that being of similar voltage and capacity they would also give me "mega" (as opposed to "micro") performance - sadly, it seems that this isn't the case :( >> Why are you using AA's in the grip? Why not the two BP-511's it's >> designed for? I've been using my grip for 6 months and don't even [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >capacity they would also give me "mega" (as opposed to "micro") >performance - sadly, it seems that this isn't the case :( You can get extra BP-511's at reasonable prices on the net. ******************************************************** "A nice man is a man of nasty ideas." _Introductions to History of the Reformation_ Jonathan Swift 1667-1745 >>>Why are you using AA's in the grip? Why not the two BP-511's it's >>>designed for? I've been using my grip for 6 months and don't even [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You can get extra BP-511's at reasonable prices on the net. http://sterlingtek.com/ln03-canon-bp-511-dlc511.html The 20d turns off automatically to conserve battery power. The BP-511 battery takes a lot of pictures before going dead. You may not need two BP-511 batteries. I would not use double A cells. >The 20d turns off automatically to conserve battery power. >The BP-511 battery takes a lot of pictures before going dead. >You may not need two BP-511 batteries. >I would not use double A cells. The two batteries in the grip give it better balance and longer life. Why not use it the way it was designed? ******************************************************** "A nice man is a man of nasty ideas." _Introductions to History of the Reformation_ Jonathan Swift 1667-1745 > The two batteries in the grip give it better balance and longer life. > > Why not use it the way it was designed? I keep two batteries in my Big Ed and they go quite a ways before I have to recharge. |
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