Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / August 2005
Minimum F-Stop for portrait work
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Cockpit Colin - 06 Aug 2005 05:55 GMT Hi all,
I'm getting close to purchasing my first Canon L series lens for portrait work - every review I've read suggests that the 85mm F1.2 L is a real honey - but I've also read better reviews of the 135mm F2.0 L series.
Today I've had a bit of a play with an online DOF calculator and if what I'm reading is correct then I suspect that I'm never going to be able to use it wider than 2.0 because the DOF range is so small we're getting to a point where if the eyes are in focus then the tip of the nose will be out, and the ears waaay out. I'm curious as to what you good folks feel is the minimum F-Stop (ie largest aperture) for portrait work?
Also, am I correct in assuming that if I presently position my camera approx 1m away from my subject with a 50mm lens then I'll have to be at 2.7m with a 135mm?
Thanks,
CC
Pixby - 06 Aug 2005 08:03 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > CC Depth of field for a digital camera is a hell of a lot greater than with film SLR. That having been said, the focal length previously considered in 35 mm circles to be a "portrait lens" is too long for digital with a 1.6 crop factor. This is 75mm to 90mm, depending on the maker.
I use a 50mm 1.4 lens for most portraits. This is roughly equal to the 75mm of a true portrait lens however... The lens is too sharp for mature aged portraits. I partly overcome this with the use of a "Duto" filter. These are hard to come by now but are clear glass with circles etched on the glass. They soften an image - ironing out wrinkles and other skin imperfections. You can get a similar effect by lightly sandblasting a filter. I have also used the body oil from scraping where your nose joins your face and smearing it on a filter. This provides a soft look.
I wouldn't bother too much about the eyes/ears focus depth. Many of my best portraits concentrate on the so called 'features' of a person's face. It is only in reportage and travel shots, sharpness is beneficial to a portrait. Some of the most highly regarded portraits from well know photographers are softly focused. The digital brigade would probably call them out of focus due to their lack of detail.
There is such a thing described in almost every book on the subject of portraits as "the perspective of a portrait". Some techno geek from the frozen wastes of Canada told me perspective is not tied to focal length. For a portrait it is. He is yet to show me his "traditional portrait" taken with a 14mm lens. (Douglas sniggers quietly)
For the purpose of discussing the artist merits of images taken with a camera, I will offer you the suggestion that you get a better perspective to your portraits when you use a telephoto lens. You will need to move farther away than with a normal lens.
The 85mm Canon Portrait lens is a really nice lens but if you have 1.6 crop factor, you'll get too much depth of field and it will be too much length, for studio portraits. Why not try the (relatively) inexpensive 50mm f1.8?
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Steve Wolfe - 06 Aug 2005 08:51 GMT > The 85mm Canon Portrait lens is a really nice lens but if you have 1.6 > crop factor, you'll get too much depth of field You will? I used it on a DR XT for some portraits, and at f/1.2, I couldn't keep both eyes in focus unless the subject was facing 100% directly at the camera. I just looked at one of the shots at f/1.6, where the subject is rotated just about 10 degrees off of facing the camera. One eye is tack-sharp, the other is just a tad soft - only noticeable if you look for it - and the tip of the nose and ears are noticeably soft. When facing about 50 or 60 degrees from the camera, one eye was very noticeably soft, and that was at f/1.6 as well.
In fact, any wider than f/1.6 is just likely to ruin the shot unless you *are* specifically trying to accentuate only one part of the face. If I wanted to focus on the eye and not have to worry about keeping the entire face in focus, I would stop to 2.0 or 2.4. Even at 2.4, in a shot with three subjects lined side-by-side, but not *quite* perpendicularly to the camera, one would be just a tiny bit soft. Not enough that you notice it on a 5x7, but still a tiny bit soft.
The 85mm f/1.2 is a fine, fine lens. The only potential downfall for portraiture is that the images are razor-sharp, especially once you're stopped down to f/1.6 or smaller. If you want soft-focus, you'll have to either use a filter, do it in post, or buy a soft-focus lens. Well, that and the fact that you do need some room in order to fit much in the frame on a 1.6 body. I shot a group portrait of 11 or 12 people with it, and it just happened to work out perfectly - the location they wanted the portrait in was right against a small duck-pond in the reception center. I walked around the pond, and was at a very good distance for the shot. : )
steve
Cockpit Colin - 06 Aug 2005 09:35 GMT > I use a 50mm 1.4 lens for most portraits. This is roughly equal to the > 75mm of a true portrait lens however... My kit lens maxes out at 50mm - but at this distance I've got the camera only about 1m from my subject - so I'm assuming that with a 85mm lens I'd be a touch under 2m, which should be fine - is this a valid assumption???
The issue I'm having is getting the shutter speed high enough to freeze a moving subject while I fire off a burst of shots. Many may not like this approach - and no doubt I'll improve my technique - but what I'm after is portraits where the subject (ie daughter for now) isn't just smiling, but is "squealing with delight" - only way I've found to get the ones I want is to take a burst whilst I make her laugh - but at F5.6 (even under strong lights) my shutter speeds are waaaaay too slow @ 100 ISO (I used to like the grain of higher ISOs, but soon discovered it's too much if the photo is being blown up). I'm gambling that a faster lens will make all the difference (even if I also have to use ISO 200 at a pinch). What I'm hoping to capture is something that'll be sharp when blown up to perhaps 150 to 200% and framed on a feature wall)
I was getting excited about the 135mm F2.0 L lens - one of the reviews described it as "the perfect portrait lens" - but I didn't check what sort of camera he was using it with - probably safe to bet is wasn't with a 1.6 crop factor camera :(
I'm leaning towards the 85mm F1.2 L - I really don't know what I'll think of the DOF - but I think it'll give me the most options (can always stop down for better DOF) - and for portraits it sounds like it's a safer bet @ 85mm. I'll probably get the other one as well - it sounds like it would be a good choice for trips around the zoo.
Pixby - 06 Aug 2005 11:52 GMT >>I use a 50mm 1.4 lens for most portraits. This is roughly equal to the >>75mm of a true portrait lens however... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I'll probably get the other one as well - it sounds like it would be a good > choice for trips around the zoo. Let your speedlight be your friend. Set your camera's custom function to allow your speedlight to use 1/250th in Av mode. The luminance will be enough to light the subject correctly with one shot and you can pretty much choose whatever aperture you like within reasonable bounds, based on the depth of field you plan to have and the output power of your speedlight.
If it sound like it won't work, consider the speedlight in ETTL II mode will modify it's output strength and communicate to the camera to suit the scene. It works quite well indoors. Outside is another kettle of fish.
The earlier poster who commented on one eye being out of focus when the other is not, demonstrated why it is crucial in portraiture to either see a stopped down preview or know your gear well enough to be able to look at a shot and know what f stop will be needed to achieve the depth of field you want.
Just keep in mind that whatever DOF you would have at the lenses FL (say 50mm), the same lens on a digital will 'look' like it's a 75 mm but have the DOF of the 50 mm lens. The 1.6 crop factor is cropping the image, not magnifying it.
f5.6 is the (Canon) digital equal to f8 in full frame and is what eminent flash makers like Metz, recommend for a starting point in portraiture. To use apertures wider than f5.6, you really need to know what you are going to get. The purpose of a fast lens is not so much to take impossibly shallow shots but to be able to see and focus with them.
Like having a 7 litre V8 engine. It is not supposed to use all it has all the time. Same with fast lenses!
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David Littlewood - 06 Aug 2005 15:21 GMT >Just keep in mind that whatever DOF you would have at the lenses FL >(say 50mm), the same lens on a digital will 'look' like it's a 75 mm >but have the DOF of the 50 mm lens. The 1.6 crop factor is cropping the >image, not magnifying it. Not quite. Agreed a 50mm lens is always 50mm lens, and it is a mistake to use "35mm equivalent focal length" figures in DoF formula. However, the DoF figures assume a constant enlargement factor in producing the final image; in order to fill the frame with a given figure crop, a 1.6 digital will need to be enlarged additionally by this factor to get to the same size as an image from 35mm. Thus a 50mm lens will have a DoF of approximately 2.25 that of a 75mm lens (1/f^2) before this factor (i.e. if both are being used on the same format) but only 1.4 times (2.25/1.6) on a same-size final image where the 50mm is being used on a smaller digital sensor.
>f5.6 is the (Canon) digital equal to f8 in full frame and is what >eminent flash makers like Metz, recommend for a starting point in >portraiture. To use apertures wider than f5.6, you really need to know >what you are going to get. The purpose of a fast lens is not so much to >take impossibly shallow shots but to be able to see and focus with them. Though they are highly useful in poor illumination; I use a Canon 35mm f/1.4L as my preferred lens in museums, for instance.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Brian Baird - 06 Aug 2005 18:39 GMT > Though they are highly useful in poor illumination; I use a Canon 35mm > f/1.4L as my preferred lens in museums, for instance. I am envious. If you die, please make sure you have willed that lens to me.
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David Littlewood - 06 Aug 2005 18:55 GMT >> Though they are highly useful in poor illumination; I use a Canon 35mm >> f/1.4L as my preferred lens in museums, for instance. > >I am envious. If you die, please make sure you have willed that lens to >me. They're not ^that^ expensive (and besides, my daughter has her eye on it).
David
 Signature David Littlewood
David Littlewood - 06 Aug 2005 15:08 GMT >> I use a 50mm 1.4 lens for most portraits. This is roughly equal to the >> 75mm of a true portrait lens however... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >to capture is something that'll be sharp when blown up to perhaps 150 to >200% and framed on a feature wall) Then your lighting is inadequate. In bright sunlight you should get 1/500 to 1/800 for f/5.6 at ISO 100 (depending on what latitude you are at). If you are inside, try using flash.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Cockpit Colin - 07 Aug 2005 13:32 GMT > Then your lighting is inadequate. In bright sunlight you should get 1/500 > to 1/800 for f/5.6 at ISO 100 (depending on what latitude you are at). If > you are inside, try using flash. I'm using 2000 watts of halogen - do I need more????
JPS@no.komm - 07 Aug 2005 14:16 GMT >> Then your lighting is inadequate. In bright sunlight you should get 1/500 >> to 1/800 for f/5.6 at ISO 100 (depending on what latitude you are at). If >> you are inside, try using flash.
>I'm using 2000 watts of halogen - do I need more???? With halogen or tungsten, you are always weak in the blue channel, unless you filter the light or the lens.
 Signature <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< Steve Wolfe - 06 Aug 2005 17:16 GMT > so I'm assuming that with a 85mm lens I'd be a touch under 2m, which > should be fine - is this a valid assumption??? 2 meters, or maybe a touch over it would probably work for a face-only picture. If you want a full-body picture, you have to move back, back, back, back.
> I'm leaning towards the 85mm F1.2 L - I really don't know what I'll think > of the DOF - but I think it'll give me the most options (can always stop > down for better DOF) - and for portraits it sounds like it's a safer bet @ > 85mm. I'll probably get the other one as well - it sounds like it would be > a good choice for trips around the zoo. Don't forget that it's big, fat, heavy, and slooooow to focus. : ) It's also expensive - the 50mm f/1.4 that someone (Pixby?) mentioned will also take fine portraits, at about 1/5th the price! Call around and see if anyone local to you will rent you the 85 and/or the 50, and play around with them for a day, then decide.
steve
David Littlewood - 06 Aug 2005 15:04 GMT >There is such a thing described in almost every book on the subject of >portraits as "the perspective of a portrait". Some techno geek from the >frozen wastes of Canada told me perspective is not tied to focal >length. For a portrait it is. He is yet to show me his "traditional >portrait" taken with a 14mm lens. (Douglas sniggers quietly) Well, the "geek" was (mostly) right and you were (mostly) wrong. Distance perspective* is determined purely by distance. If you take a picture from a set distance with a wide and a tele, and crop and enlarge the wide shot to cover the same area, the two will be identical (ignoring pixellation and any other resolution effects).
* I use this term to avoid confusing the issue with those arising from poor drawing in the corners of extreme wide angles, or perspective distortion arising from tilting the camera. If you fill the frame of a 14mm shot with a face, the geometric effects in the corners will indeed distort the extremes of the face (which is why I said "mostly" above). Of course, you probably would not be able to get a clear image anyway as the subject's breath would be fogging the lens from about 3" away....
>For the purpose of discussing the artist merits of images taken with a >camera, I will offer you the suggestion that you get a better >perspective to your portraits when you use a telephoto lens. You will >need to move farther away than with a normal lens. And there you have said it yourself. Using a 135mm lens does not of itself affect perspective, but to get the same field of view you have to move further away, which does affect perspective
>The 85mm Canon Portrait lens is a really nice lens but if you have 1.6 >crop factor, you'll get too much depth of field and it will be too much >length, for studio portraits. Why not try the (relatively) inexpensive >50mm f1.8? Nice lens, but surely one which will (other things being equal) give greater DoF not less.
David
 Signature David Littlewood
Pixby - 07 Aug 2005 00:23 GMT >> There is such a thing described in almost every book on the subject of >> portraits as "the perspective of a portrait". Some techno geek from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the wide shot to cover the same area, the two will be identical > (ignoring pixellation and any other resolution effects). The problem here David is interpretation of wording applying to different industries. The optical industry will go along with the notion that perspective does not change with focal length - despite them making variable perspective lenses.
Photographers and artists will know absolutely they can't take a portrait photo which "looks" right unless they get the perspective right. Standing well back from the subject and altering the angle of view, will do this.
You simply can't get correct perspective of a portrait, with an 8 mm lens so the whole picture which needs the right perspective is tied to the focal length of a lens which will let you get that perspective. This is about photography and art, not about the mechanics of tools used to make a portrait. They can be anything from a chisel to a camera.
Artists who use cameras might not know the absolute last detail about the mechanical design of their equipment - and nor should they need to, the camera is just a tool - but they sure as hell know about perspective in portraiture. If I didn't have a camera, I would sketch my portraits and colour them with paint. All my portraits have a pleasant perspective to them, regardless of whether I used an optical lens on a camera or my eye and charcoal.
It is a well established description to refer to "a better perspective to a portrait by using a telephoto lens". It is not my wording but from an eminent portrait photographer responsible for several textbooks and manuals on the subject.
The fact you have to move further away from your subject to use a telephoto lens is secondary to the intent of the sentence. Using a telephoto lens to take a Portrait, *forces* you to change the perspective. "By what ever means you use to achieve the end result, the process shall be known".
If you know who wrote that and when it was written, I will alter my opinion of you as being a geek with a camera and not a photographer.
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MarkH - 07 Aug 2005 01:48 GMT >>> There is such a thing described in almost every book on the subject >>> of portraits as "the perspective of a portrait". Some techno geek [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > right. Standing well back from the subject and altering the angle of > view, will do this. As will standing in the same place and taking the same picture with a wider lens, then cropping the image to produce the same picture as you would have gotten with a longer lens.
> You simply can't get correct perspective of a portrait, with an 8 mm > lens so the whole picture which needs the right perspective is tied to > the focal length of a lens which will let you get that perspective. > This is about photography and art, not about the mechanics of tools > used to make a portrait. They can be anything from a chisel to a > camera. I think that you can, especially if you use a small sensor digital camera that gives the same FoV with the 8mm as you would normally get with a 40mm lens on a 35mm camera. As long as you stand in the right place you will get the right perspective.
> It is a well established description to refer to "a better perspective > to a portrait by using a telephoto lens". It is not my wording but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > perspective. "By what ever means you use to achieve the end result, > the process shall be known". The fact you have to move further away from your subject to use a telephoto lens is primary to the intent of the sentence. It is 100% the point of the sentence. The eminent portrait photographer wants you to stand further back to get a better perspective, he knows that telling you to use a telephoto lens will automatically get you to stand in the right place without even thinking about it.
Surely if the same books had decided to explain that the "better perspective" would be achieve by being further from the model and that to get the right picture at that distance you would use a longer lens, then it would have been just as correct? If a book said that changing to an 80mm lens instead of a 50mm lens would mean that you would stand further back and that standing further back would provide a better perspective, isn't that simply a fuller explanation of "a longer lens gives a better perspective"
What I am saying is that the books don't fully explain what they mean and that "a longer lens gives a better perspective" is not true unless you understand that they actually mean "standing furter away with a longer lens gives a better perspective". They simply assume (fairly accurately) that a photographer with a longer tele lens will naturally stand further back. It is a case of explaining what to do, not how it works.
If I am writing a book and want to explain to the readers that they need to stand further back to get the right perspective I could tell them to use a tape measure and stand a certain distance, but they will keep moving to the distance that frames the subject the way they want. If my goal is to get them to stand further back then the simplest way to achieve that goal is to have them shoot with a longer lens. Why make things complicated and tell people to measure the width of the face and then calculate how far back to stand to get the perspective right, when they could shoot with a 135mm lens and stand in the right place without measuring, calculating or even consciously thinking about where to stand?
 Signature Mark Heyes (New Zealand) See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05) "There are 10 types of people, those that understand binary and those that don't"
Tony Polson - 07 Aug 2005 12:39 GMT >The fact you have to move further away from your subject to use a >telephoto lens is primary to the intent of the sentence. It is 100% the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >measuring, calculating or even consciously thinking about where to >stand? Well said.
What is patently obvious is that Doug (Ryadia, Pixby ... etc.) simply doesn't understand perspective.
Pearls before swine ...
;-)
David J Taylor - 07 Aug 2005 12:54 GMT Tony Polson wrote: []
> What is patently obvious is that Doug (Ryadia, Pixby ... etc.) simply > doesn't understand perspective. Or don't share your viewpoint.... <G>
Tony Polson - 07 Aug 2005 13:09 GMT "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote:
>Tony Polson wrote: >[] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Or don't share your viewpoint.... ><G> Since viewpoint uniquely defines perspective, obviously not.
;-)
David Littlewood - 07 Aug 2005 12:45 GMT >>> There is such a thing described in almost every book on the subject >>>of portraits as "the perspective of a portrait". Some techno geek [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >If you know who wrote that and when it was written, I will alter my >opinion of you as being a geek with a camera and not a photographer. I find it quite odd that you type a whole page trying to disagree with me, but pretty well everything you actually say is in line with what I said in the first place. Having made an error in wording in your first post, you now try to say, "well the words I used are sometimes used by others to apply to the facts as you described them".
For the avoidance of doubt, perspective is determined by position, not by focal length directly, though focal length may itself dictate a position and thus indirectly affect perspective. You seem to agree with this, so why the implied criticism?
I don't know what you mean by "variable perspective lenses".
I probably won't see your reply, as I am off to Italy for 10 days in an hour or so, and any follow up will almost certainly have expired before I return. However, I have to say that forming an opinion of another person based on an almost total lack of knowledge does not impress.
 Signature David Littlewood
Tony Polson - 06 Aug 2005 23:09 GMT >Depth of field for a digital camera is a hell of a lot greater than with >film SLR. Nonsense.
Depth of field for the Canon EOS 1Ds is the same as with 35mm film.
**Exactly** the same.
Why? Because depth of field depends on the sensor size, not whether that sensor is digital or film.
Alan Browne - 06 Aug 2005 23:21 GMT Tony Polson wrote:
> Why? Because depth of field depends on the sensor size, not whether > that sensor is digital or film. It actually has to do with the ratio of print size to sensor size, focal length, aperture and focus distance.
But thanks for playing.
;-)
Cheers, Alan.
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Pixby - 07 Aug 2005 00:28 GMT Tony Polson wrote:
>>Depth of field for a digital camera is a hell of a lot greater than with >>film SLR. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why? Because depth of field depends on the sensor size, not whether > that sensor is digital or film. Holy sh.t! Like everyone here can afford to buy a full frame, Professional digital camera, eh?
Give it up Tony. I'd have thought your stupid remark about my picture being out of focus and the subsequent evidence it wasn't, would have been enough. Bugger off back to your rock.
 Signature Douglas, You never really make it on the 'net until you get your own personal Troll. Mine's called Chrlz. Don't feed him, he bites!
Tony Polson - 07 Aug 2005 12:43 GMT >Holy sh.t! >Like everyone here can afford to buy a full frame, Professional digital >camera, eh? That has nothing to do with it, as you would surely know if you had the slightest idea what you were talking about. Unfortunately, you don't. Every topic you post about on here serves to display your fundamental lack of knowledge about yet another area of photography.
You don't seem to know anything about anything, unless it is wrong.
;-)
Chrlz - 07 Aug 2005 01:23 GMT > the focal length previously considered >in 35 mm circles to be a "portrait lens" is too long for digital with a >1.6 crop factor. This is 75mm to 90mm, depending on the maker. Agreed. Many folk refer to 135mm as portrait length also, but lets not quibble.
>I have also used the body oil from scraping where your nose >joins your face and smearing it on a filter. Gross. Buy a soft filter (and keep any oils and greases away from your camera equipment - this sort of practice should have died with magnesium flash..). They are easy to find. Check secondhand camera stores. You can also do post-processing (look for soft-focus actions on the net, plenty to play with - and before anyone asks, no, they are *not* the same as blurring!), but the real filters are best. Actually, a real Softar lens is best, but let's not go there...
>Some of the most highly regarded portraits from well know >photographers are softly focused. What, like your famous, but now-withdrawn (as usual) 'tells a story in a face' portrait? No, wait, that didn't get any 'high regard' from anyone..
>The digital brigade would probably call them out of focus >due to their lack of detail. The 'digital brigade'? If that is meant as an insult, I would observe that there are just as many talentless people in either camp - right, Douglas? Digital folk tend to know how to process their images properly for web display, though. I guess that's where we differ.
>Some techno geek from the frozen wastes of Canada told me >perspective is not tied to focal length. It isn't. The techno geek was right and still is, as were ALL the other folk on that thread who tried to get it through to you. If you hold all other things equal (and if you don't, the question is meaningless) - perspective is strictly a function of distance from subject. Proof - take an image on a zoom at, say, 28mm. Now, *without moving*, take a second image at 80mm. Examine the *same area* of both images, and you will notice that the perspective is the same. The field of view changed, that's all.
OF COURSE you will have to move closer to the subject if you want the same image from a 28mm lens as that from an 80mm. And by MOVING, you changed the perspective. Evereyone else seems to be able to grasp this concept...
>For a portrait it is. He is yet to show me his "traditional portrait" >taken with a 14mm lens. If *anyone else* has a problem with this concept, I will happily post an image taken at 14mm that shows this concept, along with several other images that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it is DISTANCE FROM SUBJECT that changes perspective.. But no-one else seems to have the problem, Douglas, and I'm certainly not bothering for you.
>(Douglas sniggers quietly) Douglas childishly embarrasses himself again - rather like his signature, which is indicative of his maturity..
>For the purpose of discussing the artist merits of images taken >with a camera, I will offer you the suggestion that you get a better >perspective to your portraits when you use a telephoto lens. >You will need to move farther away than with a normal lens. Bravo - by adding that last line, you hint that even *you* understand that perspective changes with distance, not focal length. I guess it is at least in your subconcious.
>The 85mm .. is a really nice lens but if you have 1.6 crop factor, >you'll get too much depth of field The only additional d-o-f he will get is from the additional distance he is from the subject, and it is a f1.2 lens for heaven's sake...
>and it will be too much length, for studio portraits. Depends on his shooting style and studio layout. I often use 135mm, even 200mm (35-equivalent) zoom lengths. Having a 135mm-ish f1.2 would be rather nice..
frederick - 07 Aug 2005 11:14 GMT > Depth of field for a digital camera is a hell of a lot greater than with > film SLR. That having been said, the focal length previously considered > in 35 mm circles to be a "portrait lens" is too long for digital with a > 1.6 crop factor. This is 75mm to 90mm, depending on the maker. The difference for APS-C is about 1 stop: 75mm at f2.8 with 35mm = 50mm at f2 with 1:1.5 ratio crop Same DOF almost exactly (not that 1 stop is a big difference anyway). A "hell of a lot greater" is comparing either of the above to a P&S camera with a small sensor.
Alan Browne - 06 Aug 2005 20:56 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ears waaay out. I'm curious as to what you good folks feel is the minimum > F-Stop (ie largest aperture) for portrait work? There are portraits and there are portraits. Most people who have their portrait done for "family" or "corporate" style want themselves to be in focus from the nose to the ears. For full figure (or head to thighs), more DOF usually looks better. an f/2.8 or better lens in 50mm to 100mm (for cropped sensors) is ample, but such a lens will begin to peak on sharpness at about f/5.6 to f/8.
Photographers and art department editors may have need for photos where there is feature isolation (eye in tack sharp focus, other eye soft, nose soft, etc...). So a fatter (f/1.4) lens is best.
The f/1.2 and f/1.0 lenses are more bragging right than anything else, and are not noted as particularly sharp compared to the f/1.4 lenses in the portrait range.
> Also, am I correct in assuming that if I presently position my camera approx > 1m away from my subject with a 50mm lens then I'll have to be at 2.7m with a > 135mm? Yes, FL is proportional to distance for the same framing.
(note that a lens that says "50mm" might be 48 or 49; and a lens that says 135 might actually be 131 or so).
Cheers, Alan
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zeitgeist - 07 Aug 2005 05:28 GMT > I'm getting close to purchasing my first Canon L series lens for portrait > work - every review I've read suggests that the 85mm F1.2 L is a real [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 1m away from my subject with a 50mm lens then I'll have to be at 2.7m with a > 135mm? Its an artistic choice, but it seems a hallmark high volume low cost to have everything in focus, including the texture of the background, and many portrait photogs use the shallowest f/no they can.
I used to shoot a 4x5 wide open with a DOF so shallow that only one eye was in focus. Lots of old hollywood images were like this.
Cockpit Colin - 07 Aug 2005 13:48 GMT Thanks everyone for the good advice - I think photography must be one of those disciplines in life where "the more you learn the more you realise how much you have to learn!"
Perhaps I should give up on portraits and go for nudes instead - Hmmm - would probably need a super-wide-angle lens for that!
Jer - 07 Aug 2005 20:26 GMT > Thanks everyone for the good advice - I think photography must be one of > those disciplines in life where "the more you learn the more you realise how > much you have to learn!" > > Perhaps I should give up on portraits and go for nudes instead - Hmmm - > would probably need a super-wide-angle lens for that! Depends on the broad nature of your subjects, no?
(sowwy, couldn't resist)
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Cockpit Colin - 07 Aug 2005 22:20 GMT Broadly speaking ...
That's probably the difference between a pro and an amatuer - the pro uses a portrait lens and gets paid for photographing stunning nude models - the amatuer has to pay for it, and then has to use a wide angle lens to "fit everything in" :(
Oh to be a PROFESSIONAL photographer!!
Jer - 08 Aug 2005 04:48 GMT > Broadly speaking ... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Oh to be a PROFESSIONAL photographer!! ROFLMAO! Which means I better get a fisheye first thing tomorrow. :)
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