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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2005Photoshop, or Photoshop Elements / Apple or PC?
By just buying Elements, would I miss out on much? Second question, what is best to store and manipulate photos on - Apple or PC? (Not a troll btw!)  SignatureIf you trade freedom for security, you get neither. >By just buying Elements, would I miss out on much? I'm giving the trial a go and can't see how to do a simple crop of X by Y pixels. The crop tool doesn't seem have anything like this as inputs. Hopefully, someone here will show me the error of my ways. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >>By just buying Elements, would I miss out on much? > > I'm giving the trial a go and can't see how to do a simple crop of X by Y > pixels. The crop tool doesn't seem have anything like this as inputs. > Hopefully, someone here will show me the error of my ways. On the left side of the screen, there is a crop tool, right under the "T" (text). Press it. Then enter the pixel dimensions in the width and height boxes as follows: 500 px 400 px. (you have to enter the "px" as well as the numbers in the box) This will crop to that ratio, as well as resize the image in one go. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> I'm giving the trial a go and can't see how to do a simple crop of X by Y >> pixels. The crop tool doesn't seem have anything like this as inputs. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >This will crop to that ratio, as well as resize the image in one go. Thanks, but this isn't what I'm trying to do. I have a 3000 x 2000 pixel image. All I want to do is crop to a sub area of 1600 x 1200. I want the crop tool area to be set to 1600 x 1200 and allow it to be moved around with the boundaries shown so I can compose the cropped image. Your instructions will take a manually defined crop area, using click and drag, and resize it to 1600 x 1200. As I want a crop area of 1600 x1200 there is no need to resize anything. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >>On the left side of the screen, there is a crop tool, right under the >>"T" (text). Press it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >drag, and resize it to 1600 x 1200. As I want a crop area of 1600 x1200 >there is no need to resize anything. OK figured it out myself. Still don't understand why you can't do this with the crop tool itself though. Select the Rectangular Marquee tool and choose Fixed Size in Mode and enter 1600 px in Width and 1200 px in Height. Move selection box around to compose the cropped image and then choose Image => Crop from the menu bar. In a 278MBtrial dl the included help file was absolutely no help whatsoever in figuring this out. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html > >>On the left side of the screen, there is a crop tool, right under the > >>"T" (text). Press it. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > OK figured it out myself. Still don't understand why you can't do this with > the crop tool itself though. But you can. I don't understand why you're having problems with Alan's directions? Greg >But you can. I don't understand why you're having problems with Alan's >directions? Well, the crop tool doesn't work like the Marquee tool when I set the height and width, that's all I can say. I also found some links to web sites that seems to confirm this difference in behavior. If I set 1600 x 1200 in the crop tool it constrains the crop area to this aspect ratio. It does not however set the crop box size to 1600 x 1200, as the marquee tool does. I still have to click and drag so set the crop area. Yes, I can have the info box open and use it to gauge the crop area you set, but I was looking to explicitly set the crop size at the start. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html > >But you can. I don't understand why you're having problems with Alan's > >directions? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes, I can have the info box open and use it to gauge the crop area you > set, but I was looking to explicitly set the crop size at the start. Gotcha. At first I thought that was what you meant, then I got off track probably from Alan's post, and now I understand again. In my workflow I generally don't need to do what you're doing. Greg >Gotcha. At first I thought that was what you meant, then I got off track >probably from Alan's post, and now I understand again. In my workflow I >generally don't need to do what you're doing. Not trying to do anything fancy, just crop an image to be used as background/wallpaper on my PC. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >>> I'm giving the trial a go and can't see how to do a simple crop of X by Y >>> pixels. The crop tool doesn't seem have anything like this as inputs. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >---------- >Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) Ed, I saw that you got a workaround, but back to the Crop Tool. I assume from your reference to the OP, that you are using Elements. Is that correct? If so, this might not play, as I only use PS (CS2). In PS, the Crop Tool allows several types of constraints. One, allows you to set the W x H PLUS the Resolution. If you have the 3000 x 2000 image, look at its rez, 72ppi? Set the Crop Tool to your desired 1600 x 1200 x 72ppi (if that is the rez for your image), and you should get your desired crop. All these settings are on the Option bar (at the top of the screen by default upon installation) in PS. Don't know where they are (if they exist) in Elements. Hope this gets you closer to what you want, than the workaround. Hunt >I saw that you got a workaround, but back to the Crop Tool. I assume from your >reference to the OP, that you are using Elements. Is that correct? PSE3 trial. > If so, this >might not play, as I only use PS (CS2). In PS, the Crop Tool allows several [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are (if they exist) in Elements. Hope this gets you closer to what you want, >than the workaround. Thanks, but as I've stated before this doesn't give a fixed size crop box of 1600 x 1200. I need to use the Marquee Tool to get that. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html > >I saw that you got a workaround, but back to the Crop Tool. I assume from your > >reference to the OP, that you are using Elements. Is that correct? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > of 1600 x 1200. I need to use the Marquee Tool to get that. > ---------- But that method only lets you select a 1600 x 1200 crop from the existing image. What if you want crop the image to a composition that isn't 1600 x 1200? The crop tool will take whatever frame you like to place on the original image, so you can adjust the composition of your chosen segment regardless (almost) of the actual dimensions in pixels, and resize that crop to 1600 x 1200 automatically. The crop tool will also allow you to rotate the frame to square up a tilted image. Also, following Alan's post, if you have rulers showing, you can right-click on a ruler and choose the measurement units, which reflects into the crop tool dimension fields. Colin D. >But that method only lets you select a 1600 x 1200 crop from the >existing image. Which is what I'm trying to do. > What if you want crop the image to a composition that >isn't 1600 x 1200? The crop tool will take whatever frame you like to >place on the original image, so you can adjust the composition of your >chosen segment regardless (almost) of the actual dimensions in pixels, >and resize that crop to 1600 x 1200 automatically. The crop tool will >also allow you to rotate the frame to square up a tilted image. That's fine, but again not what I wanted to do. I don't think that should be too hard to understand. All these other "features" are great when you want to use them. I have a need not to in this particular instance. >Also, following Alan's post, if you have rulers showing, you can >right-click on a ruler and choose the measurement units, which reflects >into the crop tool dimension fields. Again, I was looking to set an exact set of dimensions, best done by inputting the dimensions in some setting box. Those for the crop tool don't do this. My initial impression of all of this is how odd it seems to have a tool which performs all these additional functions having nothing to do with cropping itself, whilst requiring the use of another tool to do a simple crop function such as this. I can just imagine the response to my next question. Which would be: Ok, I now have my X x Y pixel crop box set using the rectangular marquee tool. However, I find X x Y is either too small or too big and I'd like to resize the box keeping the aspect ratio a constant X:Y. How do I do this? Seems like I can't in one tool. FWIW, I do appreciate folks responses ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html > pixel crop box set using the rectangular marquee tool. However, I > find X x Y is either too small or too big and I'd like to resize the > box keeping the aspect ratio a constant X:Y. How do I do this? The rectangular marquee tool also has "Fixed Aspect". That said, I agree with you. The crop tool should have this functionality. -Mike >I'm giving the trial a go and can't see how to do a simple crop of X by Y >pixels. In Elements 3, select the Rectangular Marquee tool, select Fixed Size in the Mode box above the image window, and enter the desired dimensions in the Width and Height boxes as "xxxx px". Left-click on the selection and position as required. Use 'Image - Crop' to complete the operation. Hth, Al Signature[This space intentionally left blank] > By just buying Elements, would I miss out on much? Not really, if Elements 3.0 didn't crash every 10 minutes on my Mac I'd stick to using it over PS CS. Although I am starting to get into actions which I think are only available in CS and older versions of the full Photoshop. > Second question, what is best to store and manipulate photos on - Apple or > PC? Whatever floats your boat. Color management is much more convenient on the Mac, though. I use my Mac because that's the system in my home with the best monitor attached to it. Greg > By just buying Elements, would I miss out on much? Yes. Whether you need that stuff is up to you. > Second question, what is best to store and manipulate photos on - Apple or > PC? > > (Not a troll btw!) Har. :-) I haven't tried the new Mac OS (Tiger), but I hear Spotlight (the search system) can do searches based on EXIF and other forms of metadata. > Second question, what is best to store and manipulate photos on - Apple or > PC? > > (Not a troll btw!) I'm in the PC business and used to rent office space inside a Mac sales and support company - it made for some fun debates! Trying to put all bias aside, the same program (albeit Mac -v- PC code) should function in the same way on either platform. Macs used to have a massive stronghold in the graphics and education markets, but in the last figures I saw (several years ago) PCs had overtaken them - proportionally though, the Mac share was still quite remarkable - they had something like 3% of the world market, yet around 50% of the graphics market. I'm not sure what they're up to these days - but I do know that PC hardware has dropped in cost to a ridiculous value - to the point where just one major app like photoshop costs me more than the basic hardware to run it :( > I'm not sure what they're up to these days - but I do know that PC hardware > has dropped in cost to a ridiculous value - You get what you pay for. ;^) Anyway, the new Mac Mini's are coming out soon. $500. I would say it is worth looking into. Peace out. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ [] > Anyway, the new Mac Mini's are coming out soon. $500. I would say it > is worth looking into. Isn't anyone buying a non-Intel Mac today buying into a dying product line? David > [] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David I just converted back to Mac (Tiger) from XP -- it wasn't cheap, but it was the right move for me. Photoshop operates the same on both platforms so that's a non-issue. In terms of stability, usability, and quality of display and color management, however, Mac wins hands down. For me. It's not cheap, but lots of people find it a better enabler and a better long-term value for graphics/video/audio work. I certainly do. Re dying platform, the Mac I bought this year will last me five years easily. By then Apple will have not only ported OS/X to the Intel platform -- it's a UNIX core; I'm sure they've done it already -- but *also* figured out how to run XP or Longhorn or whatever Redmond has available natively on the Intel chip. Packaged in a box with Apple-quality physical/system design. I think the upgrade path for OS/X+apps is pretty exciting and the processor switch a fascinating opportunity for Apple to get back in the game big time. > I just converted back to Mac (Tiger) from XP -- it wasn't cheap, but > it was the right move for me. Photoshop operates the same on both [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > OS/X+apps is pretty exciting and the processor switch a fascinating > opportunity for Apple to get back in the game big time. Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are gaining. The simple gesture of Mac porting to an Intel chip is a clear indication of them swallowing massive quantities of crow while drowning. Rita Hi, At home, I'm using a 14" Apple iBook with OS X (10.3.9) and PS CS2. also have PS Elements 3 on the machine. I find CS2 very nice to wor with and particularly like the Bridge program (with slide show featur to see full screen pics easily). I have a Gateway laptop with Win XP gathering dust in my closet. It ha PS Elements 2 on it. But I seldom (never) use it. Why? The Mac is just so much more -elegent!- Best, Conra -- Conrad > Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video > work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are > gaining. The simple gesture of Mac porting to an Intel chip is a clear > indication of them swallowing massive quantities of crow while drowning. > Rita You sound like a MS employee (read drone), MS sells information suppression software to communist China and The US government is allowing it (food for the thinking consumer). Bottom line I wouldn't knowingly buy jack from ole "Bill". But I have nothing personal to gain and nothing personally against MS. I know quite a few Apple users & have yet to hear any complaints from any Apple users, however this is not the case from PC users-that use MS products. So that there is no confusion Apple makes computers and software MS only makes software which is included on most PC Computers. SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. > You sound like a MS employee (read drone), MS sells information > suppression software to communist China and The US government > is allowing it (food for the thinking consumer). Bottom line I > wouldn't knowingly buy jack from ole "Bill". But I have nothing > personal to gain and nothing personally against MS. Nope, I'm just a happy Microsoft user that doesn't have all the *perceived* problems most of the whiners complain about. > I know quite a few Apple users & have yet to hear any complaints from > any Apple users, however this is not the case from PC users-that use > MS products. So that there is no confusion Apple makes computers and > software MS only makes software which is included on most PC > Computers. You just found the answer that has eluded most people for years, "MS only makes software". Most people (clueless) find it convenient to not factor this into the equation when they have a problem and put all the blame on the software. The bulk of these issues are commonly traced back to poor of improperly configured hardware. I'm using XP Pro SP2 and Photoshop without any problems or complaints, but then again, it's on an antiquated Supermicro dual P4 2.4 Ghz Xeon (Socket 603), SCSI RAID system. It hasn't hiccupped in years. Rita > > You sound like a MS employee (read drone), MS sells information > > suppression software to communist China and The US government [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nope, I'm just a happy Microsoft user that doesn't have all the *perceived* > problems most of the whiners complain about. I attribute whiners to the non manual reading users ;-) > > I know quite a few Apple users & have yet to hear any complaints from > > any Apple users, however this is not the case from PC users-that use [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 603), SCSI RAID system. It hasn't hiccupped in years. > Rita I realistically believe any system can work provided the user invests the time to understand it. Problem is our society is advanced just enough to allow the common folk enough rope to hang ourselves and only know the difference once the problem is very large ;-) SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. > I attribute whiners to the non manual reading users ;-) LOL! I can't agree with you more! I think the other issue that comes into play is there are people that are strictly anti-MS and won't open their mind to what it has to offer or take the time to understand how to use its features. This same issue seems to rear its ugly head when we have these childish Canon vs. Nikon debates. > I realistically believe any system can work provided the user invests > the time to understand it. Problem is our society is advanced just > enough to allow the common folk enough rope to hang ourselves > and only know the difference once the problem is very large ;-) That's a good point. I'm a young pup and I've been playing with these damn things since the Intel 286 days and I probably still haven't learned all the features and functions offered by any of these operating systems. In all honesty, I would really like to see Apple port their OS to work with any Intel based chip whether it be a 32-bit or a 64-bit chip as I would like to test their OS on my hardware for a fair comparison. And if Apple proves itself worthy to the consumer as being a product worth using over Windows it will destroy MS. Rita > That's a good point. I'm a young pup and I've been playing with these damn > things since the Intel 286 days and I probably still haven't learned all the > features and functions offered by any of these operating systems. Child... > > I attribute whiners to the non manual reading users ;-) > > LOL! I can't agree with you more! I think the other issue that comes into > play is there are people that are strictly anti-MS and won't open their mind > to what it has to offer or take the time to understand how to use its > features. Pahleaze. I worked desktop support for cisco systems when they were all Macs. It was me supporting about 600 users. When they decided to switch to PC's I jumped ship and got a job as a network engineer. One year later the site grew by 200. Guess how many support they hired? SIX! Do the math. And that was in an environment of standards. I know PC's. I installed, repaired, etc. I still help the AVERAGE user. Spyware, difficult app removal, difficult network setup, it all adds up. See this for mac osx uptimes: http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-1583.html XP has so many memory leaks I would be surprised if it stayed awake for 2 days. OK. I am done wit this. I know you have not worked on a mac so it is pointless. You LIKE xp. It's not bettter. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ [] > XP has so many memory leaks I would be surprised if it stayed awake > for 2 days. This is not my experience. All my systems here (Windows NT. 2000, XP) run 24 x 7 without problems caused my memory leaks. For any OS, you will find badly written applications which can cause problems. David "David J Taylor" wrote in message... > This is not my experience. All my systems here (Windows NT. 2000, XP) run > 24 x 7 without problems caused my memory leaks. > > For any OS, you will find badly written applications which can cause > problems. SSShhhh! That was supposed to be our little secret. He's got a Mac and he doesn't know any better. Rita > You just found the answer that has eluded most people for years, "MS only > makes software". Most people (clueless) find it convenient to not factor > this into the equation when they have a problem and put all the blame on the > software. The bulk of these issues are commonly traced back to poor of > improperly configured hardware. Is that why there are so many security problems with Windows? > Is that why there are so many security problems with Windows? Yep! Here we go again! What security problems are you referring to? Please cite some facts that aren't based on anti-MS propaganda to back this claim up? Rita > Yep! Here we go again! What security problems are you referring to? > Please cite some facts that aren't based on anti-MS propaganda to back this > claim up? Every time you turn around, M$ is wanting you do download & install another hack to fix a security problem with Windows. > Every time you turn around, M$ is wanting you do download & install > another hack to fix a security problem with Windows. Yep! This is a sign of good software and operating systems that is constantly improving and keeping up with current technologies and threats. All great OS offer updates to keep from becoming obsolete. If I remember correctly, isn't there a version of the MAC OS that won't run on all the available hardware platforms? This sounds more like poor planning or a smart move to sell more hardware. Rita >> Every time you turn around, M$ is wanting you do download & install >> another hack to fix a security problem with Windows. > > Yep! This is a sign of good software and operating systems that is > constantly improving and keeping up with current technologies and threats. Yea keeping DCOM enabled sure is a smart move.. For the people writing worms that is, who exactly does that service help anyway??? SignatureStacey "Stacey" wrote in message... > Yea keeping DCOM enabled sure is a smart move.. For the people writing worms > that is, who exactly does that service help anyway??? I never really cared for worms, especially bloodworms. The mealworms are cute, though. I do give my dog heartworm prevention medication so I think I have all bases covered. Oh, sorry, you must be talking about a worm I can get on my PC? I never had one so I really can't call it a security problem. Rita > I never really cared for worms, especially bloodworms. The mealworms are > cute, though. I do give my dog heartworm prevention medication so I think I > have all bases covered. Oh, sorry, you must be talking about a worm I can > get on my PC? I never had one so I really can't call it a security problem. > Rita Worms are usually not security issues, they are processor slowing issues....usually they come from shared disks like Zips or even emailed image files. So if one does not open foreign disks their is a small likely hood of getting one,...they are cross platform. SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. > > Is that why there are so many security problems with Windows? > > Yep! Here we go again! What security problems are you referring to? > Please cite some facts that aren't based on anti-MS propaganda to back this > claim up? Spyware is a security problem. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ >> Yep! Here we go again! What security problems are you referring to? >> Please cite some facts that aren't based on anti-MS propaganda to >> back this claim up? > > Spyware is a security problem. Yes, I agree with you 100% about spyware. And a Wintel platform is totally immune to it if the user takes 10-minutes to properly configure their system. Rita > >> Yep! Here we go again! What security problems are you referring to? > >> Please cite some facts that aren't based on anti-MS propaganda to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > immune to it if the user takes 10-minutes to properly configure their > system. Then why is it still a problem if that is all it takes? Why doesn't Micro$oft XP automatically fix the problem? You know how long it takes to fix spyware on a Mac? 0 seconds. God, you are hurting my head even more! Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > You know how long it takes to fix spyware on a Mac? 0 seconds. That's because no one uses Macs. Why bother spying on 1 percent of home and business computer users? Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird >> You know how long it takes to fix spyware on a Mac? 0 seconds. > > That's because no one uses Macs. Why bother spying on 1 percent of home > and business computer users? Sounds like a good reason to use one to me, even better I'll stick with linux for web surfing and have none of these problems.. SignatureStacey > Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video > work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are > gaining. The simple gesture of Mac porting to an Intel chip is a clear > indication of them swallowing massive quantities of crow while drowning. The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the shortcomings of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. > The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the > shortcomings of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. Nope, do a Google search and you'll quickly see that the primary reason is purely motivated by economics. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Apple and find their products to be top notch, but I know what is best when all the marketing hype is stripped away. Rita > > The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the > > shortcomings of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all the marketing hype is stripped away. > Rita I read it as a short coming of Motorola versus Apple. If Apple chooses to use a better part to make their product so much the better....doubtful it will equate to a compromise on Apple equipment or quality,... as some people believe. As you have stated Apple does make top notch hardware and software and one pays the price for it, just like buying a Lexus (which I can't afford:) But its the same idea, a less expensive machine will still get you to the store :-) SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. > I read it as a short coming of Motorola versus Apple. If > Apple chooses to use a better part to make their product > so much the better....doubtful it will equate to a compromise > on Apple equipment or quality,... as some people believe. The other issue that has Apple shaking in their boots is the use of their OS on non-Apple hardware. They are addressing this problem by locking the OS to only work on the Intel/Apple chip. I wonder how many people would bypass buying Apple hardware if they didn't take these steps? I can see Apple's hardware sales taking a sharp decline. > As you have stated Apple does make top notch hardware > and software and one pays the price for it, just like buying a > Lexus (which I can't afford:) But its the same idea, a less expensive > machine will still get you to the store :-) Yes they do, and this was why they almost went belly up many moons ago. People hate being locked into proprietary hardware and being forced to pay exorbitant fees for it. This is why the PC market exploded and left Apple in the dust. The nice thing about PC is I can select what grade of hardware I want to use and load numerous varieties of OS on it. If I want a top-notch system I can select the components to build one without worry of incompatibility or proprietary restrictions. This is what soured most people to Apple in the early days. Rita > The other issue that has Apple shaking in their boots is the use of their OS > on non-Apple hardware. They are addressing this problem by locking the OS > to only work on the Intel/Apple chip. I wonder how many people would bypass > buying Apple hardware if they didn't take these steps? I can see Apple's > hardware sales taking a sharp decline. The final roll out hasn't occurred, but if Apple does this I think they'll find themselves in the same loser spot as they did before. If they allowed the new OS to be installed on ALL Wintel boxes you'd see more people doing dual boot system. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > The final roll out hasn't occurred, but if Apple does this I think > they'll find themselves in the same loser spot as they did before. If their OS is truly better than MS this might not be the case. I really think Apple is afraid to take the plunge and find the answer. > If they allowed the new OS to be installed on ALL Wintel boxes you'd > see more people doing dual boot system. I would give them a whirl and see what they had to offer, but I'm not sure if I would really see any real world performance increases that would make the investment worthwhile. Rita > > If they allowed the new OS to be installed on ALL Wintel boxes you'd > > see more people doing dual boot system. > > I would give them a whirl and see what they had to offer, but I'm not sure > if I would really see any real world performance increases that would make > the investment worthwhile. Depends also how Longhorn turns out. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > Depends also how Longhorn turns out. Pssst...it's now called Vista. > > Depends also how Longhorn turns out. > > Pssst...it's now called Vista. Yeah, they announced that about an hour or two before I made my post. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > If they allowed the new OS to be installed on ALL Wintel boxes you'd see > more people doing dual boot system. I'd sure buy a copy of it.. The problem would be all the drivers for the ZILLIONS of motherboard chipsets etc. They might be able to use some that were developed for open source unix OS's? SignatureStacey "Stacey" wrote in message... > I'd sure buy a copy of it.. The problem would be all the drivers for the > ZILLIONS of motherboard chipsets etc. They might be able to use some that > were developed for open source unix OS's? So what you are saying than is Windows is far superior because it does a lot more to support countless pieces of hardware while the Mac OS supports a very limited set? Rita > So what you are saying than is Windows is far superior because it does a lot > more to support countless pieces of hardware while the Mac OS supports a > very limited set? Which Windoz,,,,which Mac OS? SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. > > If they allowed the new OS to be installed on ALL Wintel boxes you'd see > > more people doing dual boot system. > > I'd sure buy a copy of it.. The problem would be all the drivers for the > ZILLIONS of motherboard chipsets etc. They might be able to use some that > were developed for open source unix OS's? I don't see Windows or Linux having a problem with the multitude of chipsets... which really aren't all that numerous. Most boards run Intel, nVIDIA or VIA chipsets. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > > The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the > > shortcomings of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. > > Nope, do a Google search and you'll quickly see that the primary reason is > purely motivated by economics. You could have posted a link. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > You could have posted a link. You can't type in "Apple Intel" in your favorite search engine? Rita > > You could have posted a link. > > You can't type in "Apple Intel" in your favorite search engine? Results 1 - 50 of about 11,300,000 for apple intel. (0.15 seconds) Can you narrow it down? Anyway, what business decision is NOT motivated by economics? God, you hurt my head! Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ >>The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the >>shortcomings of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Apple and find their products to be top notch, but I know what is best when > all the marketing hype is stripped away. Nope. "Jobs' explanation for the move? Apple, which has been maintaining a feature—complete version of OS X for Intel chips—a project code-named Marklar—in secret for some time, could not build the machines it wanted with IBM PowerPC chips inside, given their power consumption. Intel won out, he said, on watts." http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1824695,00.asp Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. "Alan Browne" wrote in message... > Nope. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1824695,00.asp That's just simple "beat around the bush" talk to say that Apple with its current configuration and business strategy can't be competitive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that. I just hope it's not too late in the game for them? In the same article a paragraph above the one you referred to states, "Although it's a sea change for Apple, the move to Intel processors will grant the company the options it feels it needs to move forward, ultimately allowing Apple to focus its hardware efforts on designing sleek products and, at the same time, expanding sales." The key word here is "sales". Who would know better than Apple that they are drowning? Rita > "Alan Browne" wrote in message... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That's just simple "beat around the bush" talk I'll take Jobs v. over yours. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > > Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video > > work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The reason Apple is switching to Intel have to do with the shortcomings > of PowerPC in power consumption for portable computers. I think cost considerations also weight heavily. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > > I just converted back to Mac (Tiger) from XP -- it wasn't cheap, but > > it was the right move for me. Photoshop operates the same on both [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > gaining. The simple gesture of Mac porting to an Intel chip is a clear > indication of them swallowing massive quantities of crow while drowning. Dear lovely Rita meter maid, Question: How long have you used 10.3.9 and how long have you used XP? Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > Question: How long have you used 10.3.9 and how long have you used XP? I'm strictly a user of MS and Redhat Linux (Fedora Core). While I find Apple products to be top-notch they have nothing to offer me beyond what MS does. Rita > I'm strictly a user of MS and Redhat Linux (Fedora Core). While I find > Apple products to be top-notch they have nothing to offer me beyond what MS > does. Ah...that explains it...a penguin. > > Question: How long have you used 10.3.9 and how long have you used XP? > > I'm strictly a user of MS and Redhat Linux (Fedora Core). While I find > Apple products to be top-notch they have nothing to offer me beyond what MS > does. Oh, OK. You know nothing about Macs but you say they are no good? Do you have a Bill Gates tattoo on your a.s? You are not the average user. Step out of your shoes. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > Oh, OK. You know nothing about Macs but you say they are no good? Do > you have a Bill Gates tattoo on your a.s? I've turned enough of them on and off to know that they aren't for me. Rita > > Oh, OK. You know nothing about Macs but you say they are no good? Do > > you have a Bill Gates tattoo on your a.s? > > I've turned enough of them on and off to know that they aren't for me. You have the same depth of investigating and reporting as Fox News. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ >>>Oh, OK. You know nothing about Macs but you say they are no good? Do >>>you have a Bill Gates tattoo on your a.s? >> >>I've turned enough of them on and off to know that they aren't for me. > > You have the same depth of investigating and reporting as Fox News. Rita prefers using a PC and you're pissed? LOL "nick c" wrote in message... > Rita prefers using a PC and you're pissed? LOL Needn't worry, it's that damn puberty thing that makes teenage boys get these crazy thoughts and mood swings. It will pass as he grows up. Rita > "nick c" wrote in message... > > > Rita prefers using a PC and you're pissed? LOL > > Needn't worry, it's that damn puberty thing that makes teenage boys get > these crazy thoughts and mood swings. It will pass as he grows up. Now it makes sense why you use a PC. > > Question: How long have you used 10.3.9 and how long have you used XP? > > I'm strictly a user of MS and Redhat Linux (Fedora Core). While I find > Apple products to be top-notch they have nothing to offer me beyond what MS > does. You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final Cut Pro. Greg > You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final > Cut Pro. Is "Final Cut Pro" an OS? Rita > > You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final > > Cut Pro. > > Is "Final Cut Pro" an OS? AHH AHBAH AHAH HAAH A AHA AHHA AHA HHAHAH H AH AHHAA AHHA! Holy sh.t that was funny. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final Cut > Pro. > > Greg Maybe because Apple owns the rights to Final Cut? Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > > You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final Cut > > Pro. > > > > Greg > > Maybe because Apple owns the rights to Final Cut? Follow along, please, it's not that hard. The troll suggested that MS has a better platform for video editing. What does MS have for video? Some stupid app called Windows Movie Maker? Like I said, it's funny that we're buying more and more Macs even though we have steep discounts with MS and Avid, and none with Apple. Greg "G.T." wrote in message... > Follow along, please, it's not that hard. The troll suggested that MS has a > better platform for video editing. What does MS have for video? Some > stupid app called Windows Movie Maker? Geez, I correctly peg you for being a mindless adolescent that hasn't a clue about real world experience and you call me a troll. I'm hurt! > Like I said, it's funny that we're buying more and more Macs even though we > have steep discounts with MS and Avid, and none with Apple. And they're mindlessly spending billions on Homeland security, what's your point? Anyone can flush money down the toilet. Rita > > > You're funny. You mentioned video and yet MS has nothing like Final Cut > > > Pro. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > better platform for video editing. What does MS have for video? Some > stupid app called Windows Movie Maker? You can buy other apps. But the only reason Final Cut Pro doesn't exist on the Windows platform is because Final Cut Pro is owned by Apple. So saying Macs are great for video editing is rather silly when the choice is purposely limited to increase hardware sales, now isn't it? > Like I said, it's funny that we're buying more and more Macs even though we > have steep discounts with MS and Avid, and none with Apple. Well, too bad (for Apple, that is) you're not the general public. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird SNIP > But the only reason Final Cut Pro doesn't exist on the Windows platform > is because Final Cut Pro is owned by Apple. > > So saying Macs are great for video editing is rather silly when the > choice is purposely limited to increase hardware sales, now isn't it? SNIP Huh? Saying "Macs are great for video editing" is a demonstrable allegation regardless of purpose. It's a thing unto itself. It's only silly if it's false. And, sorry, it isn't. The truth of that fact is quite clearly demonstrated by the number of organizations using it to produce mission critical video. Sitcoms, feature films, etc. etc. etc. It's a fine application - as are quite a few others on other platforms. (Vegas, Premier, Avid, etc.) BTW, Business Week Online just published the Boston Consulting Groups worldwide survey (they surveyed 900+ top executives in 60+ countries) asking who THEY consider the most "innovative" worldwide companies today. Apple tops the list by a pretty wide margin. Food for thought. > BTW, Business Week Online just published the Boston Consulting Groups > worldwide survey (they surveyed 900+ top executives in 60+ countries) > asking who THEY consider the most "innovative" worldwide companies > today. > > Apple tops the list by a pretty wide margin. Too bad they can't turn that innovation into strong computer sales. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > SNIP > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Food for thought. When last I saw news published figures on computer sales in Europe, Apple had but 2% of the market. In the US, it was 2.8%. Regardless of how good some think Apple computers are, commonly used programs are genarally first written for PC's then maybe a year later they would be available for Apples. FWIW, the local state university has a student computer room, in which there are 109 PC's available for student use and 6 Mac's available for student use. The most common personal laptop used by the students, as seen on campus is a PC. > Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video > work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are > gaining. The simple gesture of Mac porting to an Intel chip is a clear > indication of them swallowing massive quantities of crow while drowning. I can lock up XP on a regular basis, but haven't had OS X die on me since the initial release back in 2001. You might want to have that Clue Deficit Disorder looked into. > > Microsoft is so far ahead of Mac in terms of stability and graphics/video > > work that they don't even look in the rear view mirror to see if they are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > since the initial release back in 2001. You might want to have that > Clue Deficit Disorder looked into. I guess your problem with XP lies between the keyboard and the chair. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > I guess your problem with XP lies between the keyboard and the chair. LOL! Well said! Rita > I guess your problem with XP lies between the keyboard and the chair. No PEBCAK problem here. XP is just an ugly piece of sh.t. > > I guess your problem with XP lies between the keyboard and the chair. > > No PEBCAK problem here. XP is just an ugly piece of sh.t. You're an ugly piece of sh.t. See, isn't this fun? Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > I can lock up XP on a regular basis, but haven't had OS X die on me > since the initial release back in 2001. You might want to have that > Clue Deficit Disorder looked into. LOL! I'm sure you can "lock up XP on a regular basis" since this is a byproduct of pilot error. I must ask, though, what imbecilic task were you trying to accomplish that created your catastrophic event? Rita > LOL! I'm sure you can "lock up XP on a regular basis" since this is a > byproduct of pilot error. I must ask, though, what imbecilic task were you > trying to accomplish that created your catastrophic event? Yeah, it's an imbecilic task. Go to the list of recently opened documents (Start-Documents), delete one, and if there are several and I delete them one-at-a-time (right-click - delete), it will lock up. Maybe won't happen every time...but I can usually count on one reboot per day. OS X, on the other hand, allows the user to turn off this useless function and doesn't lock up regardless. > Go to the list of recently opened documents (Start-Documents), delete > one, and if there are several and I delete them one-at-a-time > (right-click - delete), it will lock up. Maybe won't happen every > time...but I can usually count on one reboot per day. It sounds more likely you were using an AMD CPU that was overheating, a common problem. As I said, my system is rock stable and stays on 24/7/365. The only time I had it off was to upgrade the DVD burner and add a USB-2 card. The only time it gets rebooted is when I install a piece of software that requires it. Seriously though, you ought to check out your hardware, as I'm sure that's the problem. Rita > It sounds more likely you were using an AMD CPU that was overheating, a > common problem. Yeah... no. AMD CPUs have been running cooler than Pentiums since the Pentium 4 was introduced. Besides, Randall would never use AMDs. He's too principled. Signaturehttp://www.pbase.com/bcbaird > > I can lock up XP on a regular basis, but haven't had OS X die on me > > since the initial release back in 2001. You might want to have that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > byproduct of pilot error. I must ask, though, what imbecilic task were you > trying to accomplish that created your catastrophic event? Yes, Rita. We know you are smarter then everyone. What really scares me is that you use AOL! HE HE! Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ > What really scares me is that you use AOL! HE HE! Why thank you very much for admitting that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. As a general rule, a person that resorts to ones degrading one's ISP of use, spelling, or grammar as a rebuttal is usually in their early teens or hasn't a clue of what they are talking about. Rita >> What really scares me is that you use AOL! HE HE! > > Why thank you very much for admitting that you haven't a clue as to what > you're talking about. As a general rule, a person that resorts to ones > degrading one's ISP of use, spelling, or grammar as a rebuttal is usually > in their early teens or hasn't a clue of what they are talking about. If you can run a wintel machine with AOL software and NEVER have a lockup, you should be designing the next space shuttle! SignatureStacey "Stacey" wrote in ... > If you can run a wintel machine with AOL software and NEVER have a lockup, > you should be designing the next space shuttle! Who says I'm running AOL software? The true mark a budding genius, always assume before looking at the facts. Just for the record, the next design of the space shuttle isn't being done on a Mac. I wonder why? Rita > "Stacey" wrote in ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > assume before looking at the facts. Just for the record, the next design of > the space shuttle isn't being done on a Mac. I wonder why? Maybe if they use Macs they will stop exploding. But I give up, you win. Signaturehttp://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/ "CFB" wrote in message... > Maybe if they use Macs they will stop exploding. LOL! Now that's too funny. How would a Mac have prevented the hardware malfunctions they had on the last two disasters? > But I give up, you win. Thank you for being man enough to admit you are wrong since it takes a lot of courage, but I'm not out to win anything since I'm happy with my Wintel system. Just keep telling yourself you really have something with that Mac and someday you'll start believing it. Rita > "CFB" wrote in message... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Rita Well, perhaps his experiences simply run counter to yours? I'm sure we're all pleased that you've been happy with your "wintel" experiences. The other poster has been happy with his Mac experiences. In a civilized world, both camps would cease the debate that that point having acknowledged that both are viable, useful toolsets. You, of course, will have none of that - secure in your opinion that only *your* way is the enlightened path. I've been watching this particular brand of insanity on usenet for more than 10 years now. You, Rita, are only the latest in a long, long line of the semi-informed (a category, BTW, in which I firmly place myself, even tho I've been producing video and photography professionally for nearly two decades) who can't possibly believe that anyone else has a clue. Well, we do. Please dial it down, you're embarrassing yourself. To the OP. The Apple camp has excellent hardware and software for nearly all creative applications. Industry leading in some. The PC camp has excellent hardware and software for nearly all creative applications. Industry leading in some. In each area where one is "industry leading" today - the next rev of software/hardware will likely see the trailing group gain ground (or possibly overtake) the current leader. Apple is much smaller, but has much more creative spirit than the PC world. (Witness all the core technology that's been pioneered/popularized or invented out of Apple that's now standard - GUI, Firewire, iPod, iTunes, etc, etc, etc. My personal estimation is that Apple tends to be more creative and elegant in it's implementations of it's solutions - inventing more core technology than most other companies and changing the direction of whole industries or industry categories with astonishing regularity. In short - they "get" creativity. And value it in their corporate culture. The PC camp - including MS - tends to react to trends rather than initiating or inventing anything, but once in the game, they bring stability and market-dominating influences that tend to lengthen the useful life of the technology they elect to support. In short - they "get" mass market production efficiency - offering raw power and choice but not putting much effort or value on intangibles like design elegance or aesthetics. It's your decision which path you're more comfortable treading. Both will get you there. Anyone who tells you otherwise is extraordinarily ill-informed. > "Stacey" wrote in ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > assume before looking at the facts. Just for the record, the next design of > the space shuttle isn't being done on a Mac. I wonder why? > Rita The engineers can't understand the advanced features of Tiger ;-) SignatureWould thou choose to meet a rat eating dragon, or a dragon, eating rat? The answer of: I am somewhere in the middle. [] > I can lock up XP on a regular basis, but haven't had OS X die on me > since the initial release back in 2001. You might want to have that > Clue Deficit Disorder looked into. |
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